Horror Meets Sci-Fi in 'I Saw the TV Glow'

Summary

Podcast Summary: All Of It – "Horror Meets Sci-Fi in 'I Saw the TV Glow'"

Introduction

In the December 26, 2024 episode of All Of It, hosted by Alison Stewart on WNYC, the focus centers on the acclaimed sci-fi thriller "I Saw the TV Glow." This episode delves deep into the film's intricate narrative, character development, and the personal experiences that shaped its creation. Featuring in-depth conversations with actor Justice Smith, who portrays Owen, and director Jane Schoenburn, the episode offers listeners a comprehensive understanding of the film's themes and its resonance within contemporary culture.

Overview of "I Saw the TV Glow"

"I Saw the TV Glow" is a sci-fi thriller that intricately weaves the lives of two teenagers, Maddie and Owen, set against the backdrop of 1990s suburbia. The story revolves around their shared obsession with a supernatural TV show called "Pink Opaque," reminiscent of iconic series like Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Goosebumps. The plot takes a dark turn when Maddie mysteriously disappears, leading to the abrupt cancellation of the TV show. This event leaves Owen isolated, grappling with blurred lines between reality and fiction as elements from Pink Opaque infiltrate his everyday life. The film has garnered significant recognition, securing nominations for Independent Spirit Awards in categories such as Best Feature, Best Director, Best Screenplay, as well as Lead and Supporting Performances.

In-Depth Discussion with Justice Smith and Jane Schoenburn

Character Analysis: Owen and Maddie

Justice Smith provides a nuanced portrayal of Owen, describing him as "sort of a scaredy cat" (01:20)—an introverted individual burdened by anxiety and a deep-seated discomfort within his own skin. Owen's affinity for television serves as a sanctuary, allowing him to immerse himself in fictional worlds where he can escape his reality. In contrast, Maddie emerges as a resilient outcast who, instead of withdrawing, chooses to confront her social ostracization head-on (02:00). Her defiance is evident in scenes where she vehemently rejects labels, such as being called a lesbian in school hallways. Their mutual passion for Pink Opaque becomes the foundation of their bond, offering both characters a semblance of belonging and an avenue for self-expression.

Themes of Escapism and Reality-Blurring

The conversation delves into the central theme of escapism inherent in the film. Justice elaborates on Owen's struggle to discern reality from the supernatural elements introduced by Pink Opaque (13:07). This blurring of lines underscores a broader commentary on society's evolving relationship with media consumption—from traditional appointment viewing to immersive, endless cinematic universes.

Justice Smith's Personal Journey and Representation

A poignant segment of the episode explores Justice Smith's personal experiences as a transgender man and how they influenced the film's narrative. Smith shares, "I started my physical transition not long before I wrote this film. The film was very inspired by early transition" (07:24). This introspection informs the authenticity of Owen's character, highlighting themes of identity, vulnerability, and transformation. Smith emphasizes the importance of authentic representation, critiquing historical portrayals of transgender individuals in media as either monstrous or martyr-like figures. He aspires to present a more genuine and relatable depiction, aiming to resonate on an emotional level with audiences who may have experienced similar journeys.

Nostalgia for 90s TV Aesthetics

Director Jane Schoenburn and Justice Smith reminisce about the influence of 90s television on the film's aesthetic. Shows like Are You Afraid of the Dark?, The Adventures of Pete & Pete, and Buffy the Vampire Slayer serve as foundational inspirations (10:21). Smith explains his intent to capture the "aura and magic" of these shows, focusing on the emotional resonance rather than solely replicating the visual imperfections characteristic of the era's television production.

Contemporary Media Consumption and Escapism

The discussion transitions to the nature of escapism in today's digital age. Smith observes a shift from scheduled TV viewing to an insatiable desire to inhabit perpetual cinematic universes, facilitated by the Internet and immersive experiences like theme parks (13:07). He relates this to modern phenomena such as the TikTok trend of "reality shifting," where individuals attempt to alter their perceived reality to align with fictional narratives. This longing for transformation mirrors Smith's own journey, where transitioning gender was an act of "committing to the possibility" of self-realization (15:00).

Notable Quotes

• Justice Smith on Owen's Character:

  "Owen is sort of a scaredy cat. I think he's somebody who has never quite felt comfortable inside his own skin... He's someone who's like an introvert." (01:20)

• Justice Smith on Maddie's Resilience:

  "Maddie is someone whose response to not quite fitting in is less to withdraw and more to, like, fight back." (02:30)

• Justice Smith on Transition and Authenticity:

  "I don't think we see a lot of films... that are trying to speak authentically from inside the experience of transition." (09:01)

• Justice Smith on Escapism and Reality Shifting:

  "This longing to leave... like a reality that feels quite limiting behind and enter a space that we've been sold, that feels more magical." (14:16)

• Jane Schoenburn on 90s TV Influence:

  "I think the goal I set for myself was to make a movie... that could kind of have the aura and magic and color of how it felt to watch those shows back in the 90s as a child." (10:28)

Conclusion

The episode of All Of It masterfully intertwines discussions of character development, personal identity, and the evolution of media consumption through the lens of "I Saw the TV Glow." By featuring intimate conversations with Justice Smith and Jane Schoenburn, listeners gain a multifaceted understanding of the film's depth and its cultural significance. The exploration of 90s nostalgia, authentic representation, and the perpetual human desire for escapism underscores the episode's rich engagement with both the art of filmmaking and the societal contexts that shape it.

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Timestamps Reference:

• #timestamp1 00:17 - 03:10
• #timestamp2 Further descriptions within the character analysis
• #timestamp3 13:07
• #timestamp4 07:24
• #timestamp5 10:28
• #timestamp6 13:07
• #timestamp7 15:00

Transcript

[Alison Stewart]

Listener support, WNYC Studios.

[Kusha Navadar]

We're concluding today's show celebrating independent films with a look at the sci fi thriller I saw the TV glow, which follows two teens in 90s suburbia, Maddie and Owen, who bond over a TV show called the Pink Opaque. The show is supernatural. Think Buffy the Vampire Slayer meets Goosebumps. However, things take a strange turn when one of the teens, Maddie, mysteriously disappears and the show gets canceled shortly after, which leaves Owen feeling completely alone. Then elements of the show's story start to bleed into Owen's real life as he struggles to figure out what is real and what is not. I Saw the TV Glow is available to stream now on Max. The film received Independent Spirit award nods for best feature, best Director, best Screenplay, lead performance and supporting performance. Earlier this year, actor Justice Smith, who plays Owen, and director Jane Schoenburn joined guest host Koosha Navadar. Kousha started by asking Schoenburn to describe the two main characters, Owen and Matty, and what motivates them. Let's listen.

[Justice Smith]

Owen is sort of a scaredy cat. I think he's somebody who has never quite felt comfortable inside his own skin. He's somebody maybe with a rebellious streak, but it's buried way, way down under a lot of layers of anxiety. He's someone who's like an introvert. He's someone who maybe lives in his imagination. And I think this is why he's so drawn to television, you know, into these fictional worlds that he's able to sort of put his love into. And then I think Maddie is similarly an outcast, somebody who doesn't, like, fit cleanly in with the popular crowd in the 1990s. And, you know, they're like high school suburban setting that they share. But I think Maddie is someone whose response to not quite fitting in is less to withdraw and more to, like, fight back. She is the, you know, like, loner hiding in the photography lab's dark room after school, you know, glaring at anyone who dares call lesbian in the school hallway. I think she's somebody who, like, can't wait to escape, you know, can't wait to find a world for herself that feels, yeah, more. More magical than. Than this place. She's stuck. And so the two form this bond. And the bond is sort of, you know, really based in this, this, this shared love of, of a TV show that, you know, like the TV shows that I grew up watching and, and loved so deeply, maybe is like, dated and a little silly, you know, and, and are trying to be scary, but they're made with, like, cheap latex costumes. But what they see in that show is something that they can look forward to every week and something that, like, transports them to another place that lets them feel more like themselves than the environment that they're stuck inside.

[Jane Schoenburn]

Yeah, I feel like you and I must have grown up on the same TV shows. Cause while I was watching this movie, a lot of the aesthetic reminded me of the pieces of TV that I used to love when I was watching back in the 90s. Justice. When you read Jane's script, what drew you into the character of Owen?

[Alison Stewart]

I thought it was just, like, it was a character epic, you know, like. Like, I'd never seen a character have an arc that was like a de evolution of sorts. It felt like there was a lot that I could chew on. But I remember that I had to really let go and trust Jane's vision during the process because Jane knew what they wanted and. And, like, had such a clear idea of what the story they were telling was. And I feel like the more I. I feel like I really had to get out of my own way and kind of trust the text and trust the story and just ride the way with the character.

[Justice Smith]

I mean, the movie takes place, I think we can say across, like, a. Like, a longer time span than movies usually track a character.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah, we, like, follow this character over, like, 30 years.

[Jane Schoenburn]

Justice. Were you. Were you Hope? I. I thought it was interesting that you said that you. You had to get out of your own way with the text. Would you say that's a way that this project pushed you as a performer?

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, absolutely. This project changed a lot for me. Owen is going on this journey of running away from truth, of balancing the impossible fork in the road, of do I want to continue to suffer in hiding, or do I want to suffer out in the open? And. And I feel like I was having this antithetical personal journey throughout the film as well, where I was learning how to accept myself as enough as a performer, specifically, because in the past, I've been so obsessed with quality that it's gotten really. It's gotten in the way of me, like, actually living in the. In the circumstance of the character and with this, because there was so much to track. You know, the progression of his asthma, his devolution, his different ages. Narrator Owen was another thing I had to track because there was so much I had to, like, just let go and be present. And I felt like that taught me a lot about accepting myself in the moment.

[Kusha Navadar]

Hmm.

[Jane Schoenburn]

Let's hear a little Bit of what that performance sounded like, because that's such a beautiful way that you're describing it. Justice. And we can dive into Owen's character a little bit more in that way. This is him talking to Maddie when they're both in high school, asking if Maddie might be interested in watching the Pink Opaque together. Here it is.

[Alison Stewart]

If you wanted, I could come over again. I've been watching the tapes you've been making me, but I wanted to watch the Pink Opaque on Saturday night again while it airs.

[Kusha Navadar]

I like girls. You know that, right? I'm not into boys.

[Alison Stewart]

Totally. That's fine.

[Kusha Navadar]

Okay. I'm just making sure. What about you? Do you like girls?

[Alison Stewart]

I don't. I don't. No boys. I. I think that I like TV shows.

[Jane Schoenburn]

You can totally hear that idea that you were talking about. Justice of. Does Owen want to suffer on the inside or externally? Jane, you know, I think it's great when people show how genuinely excited they are about a project of theirs. And if you'll forgive me, I poked around your Twitter feed to see what you said about. I saw the TV glow. And I love what you wrote. Back in December, you said, quote, I left it all on the field with this one. I can't believe it even exists, to be honest. It came from my guts. And soon you'll be able to watch it wriggle, wriggle and glow on the big screen, which really delighted me when I read it. And I. I'm wondering, can you tell me about the guts there? What about the process of writing and executing this made it feel like it came from your guts?

[Justice Smith]

I am trans, you know, just to put that out there for everyone listening on the radio. I started my physical transition not long before I wrote this film. And the film was very inspired by early transition. And by the way, that early transition, I think, forces you not only to understand every element of your life in the present tense in a new way, meaning that it's almost an inevitability, and certainly for. For somebody, you know, who. I'm 37 years old and so, like, solidly a millennial, I was very embedded in, like, a, quote, unquote, straight millennial world. And I knew that transition was going to, and already was throwing into absolute chaos everything that I had thought of as home, family, reality. It was like a period of incredible volatility and vulnerability. So I was dealing with all of that in the moment, in a very visceral way. When I. When I wrote this film, you know, I'm in a very, very different stage. Of transition. But it has been important to me on this entire journey to honor the rawness of that moment and like the emotional truth of that moment. Because I don't think we see a lot of films, you know, like entering pop culture the way this one will, that are trying to speak authentically from inside the experience of transition.

[Jane Schoenburn]

As you thought about making a movie rooted in the conflict of expressing one's identity and dysphoria, were there pitfalls or devices that you were trying to specifically avoid?

[Justice Smith]

I think that any trans artist, and especially filmmakers are, are like, hyper aware of the ways in which, you know, film and media and cultural imagery of transness has not served us over time, largely because we weren't the ones telling those stories. Cis people were. I'd say the representations of transness on screen, classically in a mainstream way, have been either images of monstrosity. You know, this is Buffalo Bill in his skin suit, or Ace Venture, a pet detective, vomiting at the revelation of transness. And, you know, this is a long lineage of there being something sinister about gender deviance. Or we get these stories usually where the trans person is like a martyr, you know, this tragic figure for us all to mourn, who tries to rise above their station in life and is punished for it. So as an artist, I just take my role seriously, you know, and I think my role as an artist is to like, explore and question the human experience. You know, in my case, that's a trans experience. So what I'm trying to do when I make a film like this is, is really like, use the tools of the medium to, to try to express something personal that, you know, can feel like a wisp of smoke that somebody else might, might pick up on and say, like, I've, I've felt that too.

[Jane Schoenburn]

Thinking about, production wise, a big part of this is nailing that 90s aesthetic. How would you describe that aesthetic?

[Justice Smith]

I think emotionally it's a movie about being in love with television. As you, you know, we heard justice talking about in that clip we played. And, and, you know, this is something that I remember from my own childhood. Like, I just looked forward to, you know, Nickelodeon's Saturday night block called Snick all week long. And then getting to enter that space on a Saturday night was magical.

[Jane Schoenburn]

Do you recall any of those shows that you really dove into that really struck with you?

[Justice Smith]

Oh, yeah. The movie especially, I'd say, is reflecting on Are youe Afraid of the Dark? Which was their kind of like horror anthology show that was a little too scary for kids. And then the Adventures of Pete and Pete was another big one for me. But. And then obviously Buffy the Vampire Slayer is maybe the primary reference, which was sort of like, yeah, my first long term love, if you will. I watched that show over the seven years that it originally aired, and I certainly invested more emotions in Buffy's high school experience than my own. And so in trying to tap into that, it was almost like second nature to sort of return to the tropes and even just like, vernaculars and aesthetics of those shows. But I think I also had a deeper goal in that I wasn't necessarily trying to recreate those shows as they actually existed, because if you go back and watch a lot of those shows, they feel, yeah, dated and cheap and the monsters are in crummy latex. So I think the goal I set for myself was to make a movie, both the TV show within the movie and the movie itself, that could kind of have the aura and magic and color of how it felt to watch those shows back in the 90s as a child, rather than how they actually looked.

[Jane Schoenburn]

You know, when I was watching it, I was thinking, if they made a movie about this kind of struggle 30 years from now, what medium would they use? And obviously my first thought was social media, then scrolling and everything. But then I paused and I went, well, it feels like there's something missing from that. TV had this idea of escapism. Do you think that there is a medium that matches that escapist quality that TV used to have? And if not, what do you think is missing? Just to give you a sense of where I was coming from from it, the idea of appointment viewing, or it being long form or even commercials, all seem to make this medium of television so rife for escapism. Do you think that still exists today in any other format?

[Justice Smith]

I think there was something, you know, specific to the idea of, like, church, you know, like the appointment viewing as church and this, like, holy ritual that I would do every Saturday night. But I think that, if anything, our society has fallen more into. I don't know if escapism is quite the right word, but into the longing to exist within fiction. I think you see this throughout, you know, culture, throughout the Internet, in the kind of immersive theme park experiences that are more and more becoming like the spaces we go throughout our days when we're not tapping into them through screens. This longing to exist within a cinematic universe, you know, that never has to end.

[Alison Stewart]

It's so funny because, you know, when you said that, Jane, I thought about how it's True that, like, everyone wants to exist in this, like, cinematic universe, but then, like, for actors who kind of actually exist in that universe, it's not as magical just as justice is.

[Justice Smith]

Like, trust me, try not as magical.

[Alison Stewart]

It's like, it's like the finished product of a film isn't like it's an illusion. It's an illusion. It doesn't, it doesn't tangibly exist. And so I think we're all, like, pining for something that you can never grasp. It's, it's funny because I, I see, I see a lot of young people who want to be actors chasing that exact thing where they think, like, if they become an actor, they'll, they'll. They'll get to that Oz, they'll get to that wonderland. And it's like, I don't know how to not be jaded. But, like, I'm like, you know, I.

[Justice Smith]

Mean, I, it's just smoke and mirrors. I spend a lot less time on the Internet now than I once did. You know, pre transition, I found myself just in like, the darkest corners of YouTube or social media. And I was fascinated by it. My first film is about it. But one TikTok trend that I am absolutely fascinated by is this concept of reality shifting that, that has caught on there where kids, like, literally try to convince each other that they can enter fictional universes. Right. And I think this is indicative of, of what we're talking about. This longing to leave. Yeah. Like a reality that feels quite limiting behind and enter a space that we've been sold, that feels more magical, whether that be like Hogwarts or, or elsewhere. And, and the film is reflecting on all of this and the film is reflecting on all of this again. After I did change my reality, you know, I changed my gender. I, you know, and part of that was commitment to possibility and the possibility that such a thing could happen and that I could feel and become a person who I used to think was off limits and inaccessible to myself. And actually it worked. Like I was able to shift reality and become a person and live a life that felt a lot realer and fuller and true. But what it took was commitment to that being possible. And that's obviously not something that just I can do. All of the people around me, you know, need, need, need to back me up on that attempt, which is why being trans in 2024, in a world that still views us as fiction, is so hard.

[Kusha Navadar]

The film is called I Saw the TV Glow. That was Kusha Navadar's conversation with actor Justice Smith, who plays Owen, and director Jane Schoenburn. And that is all of it for today. I'm Alison Stewart. We appreciate you listening, and we appreciate you. I will meet you back here next time.

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