All Of It with Alison Stewart

Episode Title: How About Them (Uncommon) Apples?
Air Date: October 10, 2025
Guest: Rowan Jacobson, Author of Apples of Uncommon Character

Overview

In this engaging autumn episode, host Alison Stewart delves into the fascinating world of apples alongside science and nature writer Rowan Jacobson. They explore the incredible diversity of apple varieties, the science behind what makes apples so unique, the history of apples in America, practical apple picking tips, and memorable apple lore from listeners and callers. The conversation celebrates both the cultural and botanical intricacies of this beloved fruit, as well as the community it builds through shared stories, tastes, and traditions.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Rowan Jacobson’s Introduction to Apples

• [02:17] Rowan’s passion for apples began after moving to Vermont and discovering old apple trees bearing unusual varieties:

  "All these trees were completely different types of apples than I had ever seen in a normal grocery store." – Rowan Jacobson

• Research into apple history led him to appreciate apples' roles in the Northeast over centuries and inspired a deeper exploration.

2. The Science of Apple Diversity

• [03:13] Apples have one of the largest genomes among food plants.

• Apples do not come true from seed—each seed produces a genetically unique tree, so cloning via grafting is required for consistent varieties:

  "Every single apple seed is a unique mix of genes, so it will produce a unique type of apple." – Rowan Jacobson

• All Macintosh apples, for instance, are genetic clones of the original tree.

3. Apple Breeding, History, and Cornell’s “Hogwarts for Apples”

• [04:26] Cornell University pioneered the first systematic apple breeding program in the U.S. in the late 1800s.
• Iconic apples like Cortland, Empire, and Liberty were bred at Cornell, providing robust new varieties to farmers.

4. Personal Favorites and Uncommon Varieties

• [05:49] Rowan shares his top orchard picks:
  • Northern Spy: Big, great for pies and fresh eating.
  • Cox’s Orange Pippin: A rare, “russet”-skinned apple with complex, tropical flavors.
  • Honeycrisp: A transformative, texturally unique variety;

    "It's like an apple-flavored Cheeto. It just goes like, kablooey in your mouth, and people love that." – Rowan Jacobson [07:27]

5. Listener Stories and Apple Variety Love

• Callers like Yaisha from Brooklyn celebrate small, flavorful apples from local vendors and the nostalgic, personal quality of apple choices [08:14].
• Rowan laments the trend toward oversized grocery store apples, preferring more manageable heirloom sizes.

6. Crabapples and Their Uses

• [10:31] Crabapples have high acidity and some bitterness, ideal for cider and baking; Rowan shares a fun baked crabapple treat for kids.

7. Apple Storage: Shelf Life and Cellar Lore

• [11:37] Many “keeper” varieties were valued for surviving in root cellars through winter, mellowing in flavor over time. Modern industry uses controlled-atmosphere storage.

8. Apples in American History

• [13:07] Listener Brad recounts family ties to the legendary Harrison apple, once the top cider apple of colonial America, praised by George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, lost for a century, and recently rediscovered.

9. Apple and Orange—Can They Cross?

• [15:35] Rowan breaks it down: too genetically distant to hybridize naturally, but combining the flavors in recipes gets you close.

10. Practical Apple Picking Advice

• [17:11] Tips for visitors to orchards:
  • Seek variety, try before you pick.
  • Ripe apples should be heavy for their size and have no green in the flesh.
• Modern orchards often use “trellis” systems rather than big, picturesque trees for efficiency.

11. Pie-Baking Wisdom

• [19:39] For the perfect apple pie:

  "The best thing you can do in a pie is not just use one type of apple... like brick and mortar. Granny Smiths can be the bricks, but then you need the mortar—a Cortland or Macintosh—to stick your bricks together." – Rowan Jacobson

12. Growing Apples at Home

• [21:41] Honeycrisps are tricky for home growers; almost all apples require spraying (organic or otherwise) for perfect fruit, but cosmetic imperfections are natural.

13. Origins of the Domestic Apple

• [22:44] Apples are native to Kazakhstan, thriving along the Silk Road before spreading to Europe and, eventually, North America:

  "The apple took to North America beautifully. It has integrated itself incredibly well into this landscape." – Rowan Jacobson

14. Recipes, Local Picks, and Apple Culture

• [24:09] Listeners share apple-sweet potato bake for Thanksgiving.
• [24:56] Snapdragon is Cornell’s newer, Honeycrisp-inspired apple—crunchy and sweet, popular at regional markets.
• [26:30] The lack of zing in some supermarket Honeycrisps is attributed to climate—apples thrive best in cold areas, and Washington’s warm conditions can affect quality.

15. Apple Legends and Myth

• [27:58] Johnny Appleseed was a real, eccentric figure, spreading apple seeds across the Midwest to supply settlers.
• Apples like the Newtown Pippin and Esopus Spitzenberg are New York originals with presidential fans.

16. Food as a Cultural Connector

• [28:58] Rowan describes food as an immersive way to connect with nature and other cultures, making apples a powerful symbol of shared heritage and identity.

Memorable Quotes

• Rowan Jacobson ([07:27]): "It's like an apple-flavored Cheeto. It just goes like, kablooey in your mouth, and people love that."
• Rowan Jacobson ([03:13]): "Every single apple seed is a unique mix of genes, so it will produce a unique type of apple."
• Alison Stewart ([14:42]): "You can tell about history through apples just by listening to Brad."
• Rowan Jacobson ([19:39]): "The best thing you can do in a pie is not just use one type of apple... like brick and mortar. Granny Smiths can be the bricks, but then you need the mortar—a Cortland or Macintosh—to stick your bricks together."
• Rowan Jacobson ([22:44]): "The apple took to North America beautifully. It has integrated itself incredibly well into this landscape."
• Rowan Jacobson ([28:58]): "To me, food has always been a really interesting way to connect us to the natural world and to other cultures and places."

Key Timestamps

• [02:17] – Rowan Jacobson’s introduction to apples
• [03:13] – Apple genetics and diversity
• [04:26] – Cornell’s apple breeding legacy
• [05:49] – Favorite apple varieties and why
• [07:27] – What makes Honeycrisp unique
• [10:31] – Crabapples and how to eat them
• [11:37] – "Keeper" apples and modern storage
• [13:07] – The story of the Harrison apple
• [17:11] – Apple picking tips
• [19:39] – Pie apple advice
• [21:41] – Growing apples at home: challenges
• [22:44] – Apples’ Central Asian origin story
• [24:56] – Snapdragon and Honeycrisp apple talk
• [27:58] – Johnny Appleseed: the real story
• [28:58] – Why food culture matters

Recommendations and Takeaways

• Explore local farmers markets and orchards for unusual varieties and true regional flavors.
• For pie, mix apples with different textures and tartness for structural and flavor complexity.
• Don’t shy from imperfect fruit—cosmetics don’t affect taste.
• Seek out New York’s heritage apples for a bite of history.
• Apple curiosity is a doorway into science, folklore, and American identity.

Host: Alison Stewart
Guest: Rowan Jacobson
Produced by: WNYC
For more, visit wnyc.org/allofit or listen to their on-demand episodes.