← All Of It with Alison Stewart
All Of It with Alison Stewart
How American Education Can Better Serve Black Students
00:21:24
Brian Rashad Fuller's new book is titled, Being Black in America's Schools: A Student-Educator-Reformer's Call for Change.
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Brian Rashad Fuller
Listener Support WNYC Studios.
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Alison Stewart
This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart School starts for public school this Thursday. Independent schools went back today and the Brearley School on the Upper east side of Manhattan is trying something new this year. The school hopes to diversify its student body with a free tuition program for children in a particular income bracket. After a group of students created an Instagram account called Black at Burley in 2020, which posted dozens of accounts of racism, a new book addresses the shortcomings of educational institutions and how to provide an adequate experience for black kids. It's titled Being Black in America's A Student Educator, Reformers Call for Change. Written by educator Brian Rashad Fuller, it is in part a reflection of his own experience as a student and today's practices in education. In the book, he discusses how he learned to navigate sometimes callous attitudes towards black students, his challenging relationship with his incarcerated father. He gives his thoughts to his own failures for advocate for students in his life and figures out how to best address systemic issues that plague students within the New York City schools, the nation's largest district, he writes, to achieve this transportation and to further understand those experiencing of Black and brown children like me, I believe it's essential to look at the history of how our American educational system has become a system of our broader American society. Brian Rashad Fuller helped manage the NYC Community Schools Initiative and later served as Chief Strategy Officer for School Planning and Development at the New York Department of Education. Now he serves as an Associate Provost for Strategy and Operations at the New School in New York City. It's really nice to have you in studio.
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Brian Rashad Fuller
Nice to be here Alison. Thank you for having me.
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Alison Stewart
Listeners. We'd like to hear from you. Are you the parent of a student of color in the public school system or did you choose pride or charter schools? What has your child's school done to make sure all marginalized students have a sense of belonging or address an achievement gap? How does the school system Handle issues of equity and inclusion. Tell us what you think should be done. Give us a call or text us. 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. You can reach out at WNYC on social media. I did want to get your thoughts on the Brearley School. Their plan to increase diversity through offering free tuition to certain families, low income families, families as well as, you know, black students who shared their experience online. How. First of all, let me just get.
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WNYC Host
Your response to that.
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Brian Rashad Fuller
Yeah. Well, first, I think it's great when schools are finding new ways to increase the diversity in their student population. So I think that's wonderful. But I think that's just the first step. Right. So when you increase the diversity in your, in your student population, you need to make sure that all students feel included and welcome once they get there. And I think so. I'm excited to hear, hear what the Burleigh School is doing. But then also my hope is that they're looking at their curriculum and their school designs and all of the opportunity, educational opportunities that they're affording their students to ensure that it is an inclusive environment and all students feel like they belong.
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Alison Stewart
What was the impetus for being black in America's schools? Your book.
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Brian Rashad Fuller
Yeah, it's interesting when you mentioned the Burleigh school and in 2020, the students were posting online. And so similarly for me, I was working at the New York City Department of Education during the pandemic. And then the summer of 2020 happened where the murders of George Floyd, Ahmaud Arbery, Breonna Taylor were all over everyone's television screens. And we as a nation started to question one of our major American institutions, our criminal justice system, and really call it to the carpet and look at some of the inherent racial inequities or inherent racism within the system. And me as an educator, I thought that was great that we were questioning one great American institution, our criminal justice system. But what about our American educational system? And so I wanted to, I wanted us to start collectively having that conversation about our American education system as well. And so that was really the impetus for me to write the book. And I think that powerful storytelling is very important and inspires people to action. And I think as an educator, oftentimes we're inundated with statistics and data and rhetoric and the policies and politics of it all. But a story, a story cuts through the noise of all of that. And so it was really important for me to share some aspects of my own story and really have the book be part narrative, part political nonfiction, part memoir, part political nonfiction, to help shed light on the inherent injustices and then tell how I think we can move forward.
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WNYC Host
There's a story about an educator in the book, an older woman telling a room full of dedicated educators that tinkering.
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Alison Stewart
Around the edges is not gonna solve the problem with black children. We need to, quote, blow up the.
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WNYC Host
Center and start fresh. What about that phrase, blowing up the center struck you?
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Brian Rashad Fuller
Yeah. So actually, blow up the center is the title of my introduction of the book. And I really dedicated the framing of the introduction and the framing of the book to this woman who I met actually, at a. It was during the time I was working at the New York City Department of Education, and I was in Philadelphia for Courageous Conversation Summit by Glenn Singleton. He leads courageous conversations. And so they have a national summit every year. And so in this workshop, it was this woman who had spent 40 years in education, so she was retiring, and this was kind of her last hurrah, her last summit. And she said that in the beginning of her career in Philadelphia, when she was starting teaching, she saw a news article that said black boys were underperforming the. Performing the worst, for lack of better words in the district, and something needed to be done. And then 40 years later, and at the time, this was in 2018, 2018, she said the same headline was in the newspaper. And so she said she felt like she spent her career tinkering around the edges and not really addressing the problem. And so she said for us, she wanted to encourage us as young educators in the movement to really go in and blow up. And so what that meant for me was really thinking about, okay, well, what does that mean? What is the center? And the center for me is a white supremacist mentality and white supremacist designs that are upheld within our public education system. And so I think we've been tinkering around the edges a lot and putting band aids on things. But when we need to really just blow up the center and really rethink our designs of our education system and really move away from the white centric, white supremacist mindset, what's an example of rethinking? Yeah, so one of the things when I say white supremacist mindset or white centric education, I believe deeply, and I talk about this in the book, that our education system in many ways perpetuates racial and social hierarchy within our American education system or within our American. Within our American society. And so one of the Ways to rethink designs. And we're here in New York, and actually this year is the first year that New York is instituting a black studies curriculum. And it's been three years in the making. It started after I left the Department of Education. And so this will be the first year that Pre K through 12th grade will have black studies curriculum that predates slavery. And so it is an introduction of a retelling of a history in a way that empowers all students, and specifically black students. Because oftentimes how our educational system is designed is really to highlight one particular group, right? As powerful, as dynamic, as powerful contributors to our society and negate all others. And so really rethinking that is one of the ways. But then also too, another way is really rethinking the designs, actual designs of our school, right? Like how do we handle discipline? Right. How do we handle. How do we handle standardized testing, how do we handle assessment, how do we handle gifted and talented and who's in it and who gets placed in it? Oftentimes that's very racialized and socialized as well. And so it's thinking about the ways that we approach school to be inclusive, where all students are seen as dynamic, brilliant learners that they are, because every student is brilliant in their own way.
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Alison Stewart
Brian Rashad Fuller is my guest. This book is Being Black in America's A Student Educator. Reformers Call for Change. In your book, you point to early childhood education as important for children. We all know that that's important. Critically necessary is how you put it. What happens in the development of a child during this period? And specifically, why is it really important for black and brown children to have access to early childhood education?
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Brian Rashad Fuller
Yes, I think that's a great question. And just from a developmental standpoint, children have majority of their development from the ages of 0 to 5, right? Like some statistics say, or some stats, Some say like 85 to 90% of their development happens during that age frame. And so when you think about that, you see how critically important that age range is for students. And specifically as it relates to black and Brown students. Oftentimes, and I talk about this in the book, there are. There's something called racial stress trauma that is introduced to children at a very early age. And so when I say racial stress trauma, that means trauma or some sort of negative experience associated with your race or identity. And in the book, I talk about how racial stress trauma is often under reported. Right. And many people feel like, and many researchers feel like racial stress trauma is significantly plaguing Black and Brown youth at the early, earliest of ages, Right. And so when we think about the importance of early education, not only is it important for black and Brown youth to have to be in spaces where they are able to receive that love outside of the home and get that development that they need to thrive. Right. But also, too, to address some of the racial trauma that they already experiencing at the earliest of age and coming into the school. And I believe that an aspect of being born in our American society, unfortunately, you're exposed to racial stress trauma if you're not a part of that white centric center. Right. And so we need the ability to empower our youth to let them know that their identities are very important at an early age, but then also to just start to expose them to curriculum, to learning in a way that helps them thrive. And research shows, too, and I talk about this in the book, that the earlier that students enter school, so we think about pre k and even 3k, the more likely they are to be successful later in life. Right? In all aspects. And so it's critically important for our most vulnerable and marginalized youth, which are our Black and Brown youth.
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WNYC Host
Let's get into some of the memoir part of the book. You know, sometimes when we revisit moments in our lives, we see them differently, or you can add on to what you're seeing. What was a particular interaction or experience that you wrote about, that you had a new perspective as an adult?
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Brian Rashad Fuller
That's a really great question. And I think the memoir aspect of the book was probably the more difficult aspect to write, especially because I'm very vulnerable in a lot of things and reliving a lot of the experiences. And so I think one of the experiences that I see now from a new lens, and I saw from a new lens I was writing about, was actually talking about an experience that I had in high school with one of my teachers, actually my AP History teacher. This was American History in ap. And so I was in the IB program, the International Baccalaureate program in high school. But as a part of that, we took AP courses. And so when I this teacher at the time, I always just thought, oh, he likes to give me a hard time. I was one of the only black males in my class, and this was a white male teacher, and he was a veteran teacher in my school in South Carolina, very well respected in the community. And so oftentimes I just felt like, oh, well, this teacher's just giving me a hard time. But one instance in particular, I walked in class and he had a news article on my desk where it said that black men were most likely to be incarcerated. So it talked about the incarceration rate of black men, but then it also said that black men had the lowest life expectancy in the state. And so he then. So it was a news article. So it was a news article on my desk. Just on my desk, not on anyone else's. And then when I walked in the class, he was like, brian, what do you think of the article on your desk? And so at the time, I was frustrated, right? I was what, 16, 17. So I was frustrated. And I was like, why is this teacher again messing with me? But as an adult, I look at that and I just see how harmful that was and how. How violent that was towards me. Right. As one of the only black male students in his class, for him to single me out in that way. And then he made a flippant joke saying that, oh, well, you guys should get. Meaning black men should get a discount on their Social Security, because since you die so young. And he thought it was funny. But so seeing that and thinking about that as an adult and especially as an educator and someone who is been in classroom full of students and would not want to single out a student in that way or harm them in that way, it just gave me a brand new perspective on it and I was able to write about it. But I think too that students are. That sometimes we are. So it's so normalized to dehumanize our students in the classroom, and especially our black and brown students, that even when they're experiencing it as I was, you just go on with your day. But then.
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Alison Stewart
But it stuck with you through your adult life.
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Brian Rashad Fuller
Yeah, exactly. It stuck with me. And I was able to then recount that in the book because that was extremely problematic and very damaging.
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Alison Stewart
Well, you were in the IB program, the International Baccalaureate program, which is known for its rigor and its global outlook on education. What were your hopes when you started the program? And then also, what were the costs of being part of that program?
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Brian Rashad Fuller
Yeah, so I was very excited when I knew I was being a part of the IB program. I remember having a conversation with my grandparents because I had to. At the time I was in band, and I had to give up band to be in IB because of the curriculum and the course structure didn't match for me to be in continuing band and then still be in ib. And so I had to give up band. And I remember talking with my mom and my grandparents about it. And so I was very excited because I was Thinking that this would bring so much opportunity for me and I would get the. To your point, global perspective and the rigor. And you know, as a kid, I was. I was somewhat of a nerd, so I enjoyed that. But I think one of the. So I had a lot of hope for it. But then when I got in the program, which this wasn't new to me, but this was a different. This was elevated in the IB program. So of course, like all gifted and talented programs across the country, the percentage of black and brown students, the percentage of students who look like me had my lived experience was low in those classrooms. And all of my teachers in the IB program were white, which that wasn't because generally most of my teachers in my K12 experience in South Carolina were white. But these were veteran teachers, as I mentioned, as this teacher, the other teacher that I was mentioning before. And so the amount of, I'm trying to think of a good word for it, privilege that we all experience, but especially my white classmates.
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WNYC Host
Will you tell a story about something really simple like bringing your breakfast to school?
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Brian Rashad Fuller
Yes, yes, exactly. That.
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WNYC Host
That was not considered. The white girl who brought it just brought her right on in.
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Brian Rashad Fuller
Right.
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WNYC Host
And you thought to yourself, what would.
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Alison Stewart
Have happened if I had brought it in?
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Brian Rashad Fuller
Right, exactly. So it was. So in the IB program, I saw the privileges, how privileges were afforded to so many of my white classmates just for. And they were given a grace that I felt like oftentimes black and brown students weren't given right. And they were given. They had an innocence. They were given an innocence that we often weren't given. And so. And I saw that play out day to day in my, in my classrooms.
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WNYC Host
Is one of your, you know, blow it up strategies. Do you think teachers need to be taught differently? Do you think they need to be given education in this world? Do you think they need. What were your take, your take on teachers who come to you and leave, you know, excerpts on your desk that don't really belong there?
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Brian Rashad Fuller
Yeah. So definitely, I think as educators, I think many of us as educators, we're very well meaning, but at the same time, we all come with our biases. And so we need to be honest about that. And I even was honest about that in the book about biases that I had as a black male. But I do think that teacher education and teacher professional development is extremely important. And I mentioned Courageous Conversations, which is an educational professional development program. Right. And so we were going to that at the New York City Department of Education at the time, and we were bringing it Back to educators and educational leaders within the district. And so as a part of even this book I plan to release, which will be coming out hopefully in the next few days, a companion piece around professional development focused on elementary education, secondary education, and then the entire K12 experience for teachers to really apply some of the themes in the book more directly in the classroom and have a lot of self reflection as well on their own practice.
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Alison Stewart
You list three changes that can make a difference. Federal levelly. Excuse me, excuse me. Federal level policy change, State and local policy change and curriculum change, Classroom and teacher student interpersonal change. Where would you start?
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Brian Rashad Fuller
I would start classroom level interpersonal change. And yes, because I think, you know, and I wrote this book a few years ago, so, you know, it takes a while for a book to come out. And I think when I think about where we are in education right now and what I would call the attack on education that's happening with book bannings and we don't know how, you know, the election is going towhat direction it's going to go, but we think about policies like Project 2025 and what that means to the education system. I think we have to, I think this work is grassroots and I think that we have to just regardless of what policy, what legislation is out there, even if they're banning diversity, equity, inclusion, banning books, creating policies that don't allow us fully address the needs of our students, we don't have to call it diversity, equity and inclusion, but we can still make sure that we empower our students in the classroom on the ground. Right. And we honor our students and humanize our students on the ground. And so I think, I don't want us to get stopped by the powers that be or bad actors or corrupt policies to still honor the millions of children that need to be honored in our classrooms. And so I would start at the classroom level, I would start at the teacher level around professional development. I would start around just teachers self reflecting. That's why I have a lot of that in the companion piece that I mentioned that'll be coming out this week is around, you know, it's an equity rubric that teachers self assess themselves and how they're thinking about how they think about how they walk in the classroom, how they view their students, all of those things. Because this work we can do on the ground. Right. To start making changes brick by brick. And then I think, you know, if we start making those changes on the ground, we can demand the change, we can demand the change elsewhere. Yeah.
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WNYC Host
The name of the book is Being Black in America. A Student Educators Reformer Call for Change it is by Bryan Rashad Fuller. Brian, thank you so much for being with us.
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Brian Rashad Fuller
Thank you.
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WNYC Host
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