Alison Stewart (2:55)

I say. I keep saying, with paper pulp materials. Please explain to us what that is.

Leonardo Drew (2:59)

Well, it's just a variation of, like, you know, mushed paper and, you know, being able to sort of mold it into shapes and things. Obviously, because I'm a sculptor in my practice, the idea of being able to sort of take paper, you know, something that's kind of, you would think, the alien to sculpture. But in the end, if you can sort of, like, master the ability to sort of, like, shape it. Yeah. You can get just about anything from it. I mean, the visuals, you know, you would think, you know, what you're looking is the actual wood or whatever material you're mimicking. It can be sort of realized in paper pulp.

Alison Stewart (3:37)

What do you like about the medium one?

Leonardo Drew (3:40)

It's forgiving and, like, the kind of wear and tear on your body. I mean, being a sculptor, I should tell you that there's a beating that happens to the body. I've already had, like, three operations in the last three years.

Alison Stewart (3:52)

Oh, my gosh.

Leonardo Drew (3:53)

We're talking in terms of Corporal Tunnel, you know, just the abuse of the body. Yeah.

Alison Stewart (3:58)

I saw you in a video. You had, like, a back brace on while you were working.

Leonardo Drew (4:01)

I look like an MMA fighter, you know, so I'm ready. I'm strapped for action. You know what I'm saying? So I. And I. It's a war in the studio.

Alison Stewart (4:13)

Oh, that is so funny. I'm having all kinds of ideas in my head. All right, let's go back to your exhibition at Pace Prince. It's called Tattered Quilts. Why is it called that?

Leonardo Drew (4:25)

You know, that's interesting that you say that, because I'm sure I only mentioned that once in terms of what the feel of what we were after. Because I never, absolutely never talk about absolutes when it comes to actually what you're supposedly getting out of the work. So if you're coming with Tattered Quilts, you need to erase that.

Alison Stewart (4:42)

Okay.

Leonardo Drew (4:44)

Someone told you that. So I think that maybe that's what you're coming away with in terms of the visuals. But as a starting point. As a starting point, it was interesting to sort of, at least for the folks that I'm working with, to know what I was after in terms of texture, feel, and spiritual realization of, like, what you're after, you have to actually have words and sort of, like, connect so that you can sort of know exactly what you're after. But the fact that I number these things is for a reason. It's so that you could have a full on experience without me telling you what to experience. So telling everyone that it's like tattered quilts. It's like, let's erase that right now.

Alison Stewart (5:24)

I got you the pieces that are on view. It was kind of cool watching them put them on the wall because they' they're really three dimensional. They pop off and they come out at you. Why did you want to work with the paper in this way that it pops right there?

Leonardo Drew (5:39)

You know, interesting enough, I was approached by paste prints 15 years ago. And the fact that I have a way of sort of like twisting and forcing material to do things. They thought that if I came in, it would get the language of printmaking a lot closer to actual sculpture or painting. Obviously, there's a price point there. That huge price was between, you know, between the two things or three things. But when you talk in terms of being able to get a visual and a feel of a sculpture and have the price point of a print, you know, and then you can sort of like force an elevation in. You're sort of like, you know, the cost of what you're buying. And so I think being able to bridge or even sort of equal the price point of sculptures, I think that was a huge, you know, like, reason for. I mean, not for my. Not for me, but we'll put past prints in there. But I think that when it comes to being able to take printmaking to another level, this is what we were after. And unknowingly, you know, like we hear from master printmakers, you know, when they look at these pieces, they believe that they're, you know, they find it hard to realize that these things are prints. But the fact is we've added something to the language of printmaking because we just kept pushing the envelope. And like I said, I didn't knowingly do this. It just kind of was happening. And by the time we got on the other side of this, it was like, okay, we've just added something to the vocabulary.

Alison Stewart (7:20)

My guest is Leonardo Drew. We're discussing his two new shows of work you can see in our area. One opens at Pace Prince in Chelsea tomorrow. Another is on view now at the Bruce Museum in Greenwich through May 10. Some of the work has color. How do you decide what color you're going to use?

Leonardo Drew (7:38)

Interesting. That color actually is sort of a new sort of entry into what I do.

Alison Stewart (7:44)

Oh, interesting.

Leonardo Drew (7:45)

I started actually in China. I did four years of work in a Foundry in a pottery foundry in China. So working with like, porcelain, which this place called Jingdezhen is like ground zero for that material. And it's like being able to sort of like realize glazing and being able to take that material and also add it to your language. It was a journey. And now it's been a sort of super additive to, like, what I do. So color is now a part of how I see things. Before that, though, you would have gotten a lot of monochromatic black and white things. Monsters. But in the end, there was no color involved. And so this added in the color is relatively new. So, yeah, I would say probably the last, like maybe 6ish years. Yeah.

Alison Stewart (8:35)

That's interesting that your travels influenced your work. You've been to. You said China, you've been to Peru.

Leonardo Drew (8:42)

Peru, Senegal, everywhere. Yes.

Alison Stewart (8:45)

How has that influenced you? Or are those bucket list places you wanted to go?

Leonardo Drew (8:49)

I don't know. Well, I know, honey. I think that the idea that you can be become a receiver of information, an antenna. So, like, when you're moving around, you're sort of like, there you are in that location. And all these, you know, like what we say, like cradles of civilization, they. They will feed you through your pores, through your eyes. However these things are going into you, they need to come out. If you're an artist, if you're a musician, if you're a writer, you'll find a way to sort of like to bring those things out in that language that you've mastered. And the fact that we all are sort of antennas, if we become in tune with our surroundings. Yeah, we'd be more sort of respectful of nature and all things. Travel definitely is an absolute super additive to anyone's existence.

Alison Stewart (9:49)

Where have you been that has stayed with you?

Leonardo Drew (9:53)

China is a big one, but I should tell you that on your bucket list should be the Nazca Lines and obviously Machu Picchu. You know, these are journeys that are physically take a sort of physical toll on you, but in the end, they're so rewarding. You come away knowing that one, that we are not alone in this. There's something else going on, and you start to put these things together. The more things you see, the more you open up to the possibilities that we're being fed and that information is still there, you know, so if, you know, visiting some of these cradles of civilization, you can't help. I mean, if you're like in Egypt, the same thing. It's like, you can't deny it. It's there and it's like your body vibrates for a reason when you're in these places, you know? So, yeah, on your bucket list. Yes, absolutely. I can make it for you.

Alison Stewart (10:52)

My guest is Leonardo Drew. We'll have more after a quick break. You're listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is artist Leonardo Drew. We're discussing two shows of his work you can see in our area. One is at. At Pace Prince in Chelsea. It opens tomorrow. Another is on view now at the Bruce Museum in Greenwich through May 10th. That show is called Alchemy, the one in Greenwich. How did it come about?

Leonardo Drew (11:26)

Well, I mean, Alchemy. I mean, yeah, I am a bit of. I am that in the studio, so they gave it that title. But it is, you know, it's definitely well deserved. I mean, the fact that there's kind of experimenting that happens and sort of forced growth because of that. Experimenting. Yeah, it's a perfect title.

Alison Stewart (11:49)

When you go on the website, the first thing you see is. Looks like a checkered board of colored string. What was the inspiration behind that piece?

Leonardo Drew (11:56)

Well, we won't say quilts.

Alison Stewart (11:58)

We won't say quilts.

Leonardo Drew (12:00)

No quilts. It's possible. I'll tell you honestly, when I look at these grids, and if I were to take a step back, I know that in my past life, I mean, I say, you know, when I grew up in a projects of Bridgeport, Connecticut, it was these buildings. I mean, they were like. It was like they were grids, you know, and if I were to sit down and, like, really go like, oh, what is going on here? I would say with almost certainty that these grids are highly influenced by those buildings. You know, the shapes, the actual gravitas, the weight of being. I mean. Yeah. There's no denying. So we'll give that one to you. So it's like I say grids. Yeah.

Alison Stewart (12:47)

How did you get first interested in art?

Leonardo Drew (12:49)

Interesting. You're born an artist. I don't think there's, like, there are artists who actually find themselves by way of, how would I say, new mediums that come about that sort of all of a sudden spurs a person on to realizing that they were an artist all along. I have many friends who've. I've been at this all my life. So I've been pretty much almost an addict at making things. And the idea that some of my friends come about making things in their 30s, it was like the new mediums definitely came about to sort of wake them up to that fact that they were actually artists, but I think they were all born artists. It takes maybe some of us a second to sort of realize that fact. But I am from the womb to now.

Alison Stewart (13:41)

You knew?

Leonardo Drew (13:42)

Yeah, I mean, I was. Mother tried to stop me, you know, and that was not something that I would see she was successful at. And most times she's successful at things.

Alison Stewart (13:54)

Why did she try to stop you?

Leonardo Drew (13:56)

Well, I mean, if you're growing up in the hood and you're, you know, you know, you know, you're thinking about, or at least she's thinking about a future, the arts. No, I mean, I don't think for any sane person you would think the arts would be a safe place to sort of like, you know, hedge your bet. So, like, she was just being, you

Alison Stewart (14:15)

know, careful about you?

Leonardo Drew (14:16)

Yeah, she's being careful about you. Absolutely. Yeah.

Alison Stewart (14:19)

Well, who was the person who said to you, you should pursue this?

Leonardo Drew (14:25)

I have many mentors all throughout my life. Back in the projects in Bridgeport, back in the 70s, that would have been Richard Stamates and Ben Johnson and Bill Collins and Wendy Bridgeforth and I mean, giving all those guys props because they were there and made me realize that this, this addiction that I had for making was something that needed to be really pursued. I started exhibiting at 13 because of them. I mean, you know, I have a 13 year old that realizes that, oh, I need to take this and show it. No, you need mentors, you know, people who are around you and actually feed you materials and actually give you ideas and actually gives you an idea. You know, this, you know, this is possible to take this, you know, as a, you know, as serious as a sort of like, you know, this is your life can be this. And I mean, you know, it hasn't changed since. I mean, I've been on this, this journey from that point, you know, so

Alison Stewart (15:22)

it's been, Yeah, I read in the early 80s and correct me if I'm wrong, because, you know, the Internet that you stopped drawing, is that true?

Leonardo Drew (15:31)

Yes, this is true.

Alison Stewart (15:33)

Why did you just make that choice?

Leonardo Drew (15:35)

Well, I honestly, I was approached by DC and Marvel. That would have been in 1977ish because I remember DC had the Superman movie out with Christopher Reeve and they were using that as the bargaining chip for me to work with them. But Ira's already poisoned. I had seen Jackson Pollock's work and from there it's like took the top of my head off. And I said, you know what? I don't know what that is, but I need to investigate that. And from There I saw the Picasso show in 1980 at MOMA, and that really, really pretty much cinched it. It was like, you know, you need to. You know, there are things that are holding you back that are crutches, and it can't be. At times, these things that you thought were, you know, like, that make you an artist. Being able to draw, being able to make things. I said, well, this is actually getting, in a way. And I realized that if I was going to get to that door, Jackson Pollock, you know, like, understanding what was on the other side of that, I was going to have to make a sacrifice. And that meant, you know, tie your hands now. Figure out how to create, you know, not using all those things that were your strengths, you know. But you were strong for seven years. But it happened.

Alison Stewart (16:47)

Wow. But you were a strong artist. Yeah.

Leonardo Drew (16:51)

I didn't even know it.

Alison Stewart (16:52)

Without drawing. I mean, that's amazing.

Leonardo Drew (16:54)

Oh, no, no, no. I know, honey. It was. Yeah. I look back because I have all the, you know, all the paintings from that time and the ones that weren't, you know, like, sold. My mother's, you know, was wise enough to sort of keep the ones, the best ones. So we have those, of course. We have the books, the draw and. Yeah. So that facility was pretty. Yeah, it was pretty intense.

Alison Stewart (17:15)

What was it about seeing a Jackson Pollock that day, which kind of in black and white, which kind of blew your mind.

Leonardo Drew (17:21)

In black and white, by the way. It was like the library had this edition of Motherwell and Jackson Pollock and David Smith. And it was like, you know, you looked at in black. It was all in black and white, though. But even in black and white, Jackson. Jackson Pollock was powerful. So that should say something about what's the essence of what he was doing. And the fact that me as a young person was able to sort of see this as an entryway. And once I sort of entered that, you know, we wouldn't be having this conversation now if I hadn't gone through that door, you know, so it's amazing

Alison Stewart (17:56)

when you think about. It's like the sliding doors of it all. Like, turn left, turn right. What would your life be like?

Leonardo Drew (18:02)

Yes, you said it, honey. You said it.

Alison Stewart (18:06)

I'm talking to artists.

Leonardo Drew (18:07)

I'm still on this journey. And I will tell you that I'm supercharged every day, you know, even from that, you know, we're talking from the 70s. I'm an old dude now.

Alison Stewart (18:16)

So. My guest is Leonardo Drew. He's an artist. You have a studio in Brooklyn?

Leonardo Drew (18:24)

Yes, Brooklyn and San Antonio.

Alison Stewart (18:26)

Okay. Yeah. I want to ask you about having two studios. What happens in Brooklyn? What happens in San Antonio?

Leonardo Drew (18:31)

Well, in San Antonio, you can see the skies. You can see the stars.

Alison Stewart (18:34)

It's beautiful.

Leonardo Drew (18:35)

It's just a whole. The breadth of life there is so extremely different from New York. Texas ain't New York, you know, so I'm so thankful that, you know, like, that something happened all of a sudden that charged me and made me make the decision to sort of buy that. You know, it's a small ranch and I'm just out there by myself. I don't have assistance. So it's like the idea that you can sort of have this inward journey and even have it magnified in certain places. Texas is. I mean, or at least San Antonio. I mean, like, being out there and being able to sort of have the actual atmosphere, charge you and sort of like nourish you in a way that sort of like. It's so much more revealing than, like, having the. I've been in New York almost over 40 something years and it's this constant drumbeat, you know, but there it's like this.

Alison Stewart (19:35)

So you get your nice, quiet this. But then you come back to Brooklyn and what does Brooklyn give you?

Leonardo Drew (19:39)

Well, I mean, at that point, I'm rejuvenated, I'm charged and I can get back in and I can see things clear. But with this constant drumbeat. You gotta know that, you know, like, you need to. You don't realize it, but once you sort of find a turn off the switch to turn off. And that's what San Antonio can be. Even though I'm creating out there, too. It's something that. Yeah. That everyone should have the opportunity, experience, you know, a moment to sort of. And be introspective, you know. And clarity is probably the biggest gift in all this, I will tell you. So having a time to sort of like reset and have that clarity of reset, it's nothing like it, you know. It's nothing like it. Yeah.

Alison Stewart (20:20)

What is your studio like? Do you have any rituals before you start doing?

Leonardo Drew (20:24)

Well, I just get up and I go downstairs, I go to work, you know, that's the ritual. And yeah, it's. It's. It keeps you. How would I say? Yeah, it just keeps you in tune. If I was a tuning fork, I would say that, yeah, it's a good idea to sort of like, when you wake up, to sort of like, have that. To be able to vibrate into the studio and know exactly what time it is. Know exactly what you need to do. You Know, and the fact that I have, like, usually rotating, like, seven things in the studio. I call them seven crying babies. It's like they all need attention, so you have to kind of bounce around and feed each one and they influence each. So this is constant, absolute constant of like, you know, being sort of like, I need you, I need you. I need you.

Alison Stewart (21:11)

You know, seven different projects going at once.

Leonardo Drew (21:14)

Yeah.

Alison Stewart (21:16)

And you just go. Whoever screams the loudest.

Leonardo Drew (21:18)

That's right. That is correct.

Alison Stewart (21:22)

Wow. What are you looking forward to tomorrow about your opening?

Leonardo Drew (21:27)

Well, at 65 next, next month. So what can I be? I've been exhibiting for 13 years, so. What a question, you know? What a question. It's like. No, it's like I go in and it's gonna come at me. It's gonna come at me, and it's always something new. But it's like. And never expect it. But it's like, you know, just go in and it's like. Because if I was asking what I was gonna sort of like, give is one thing, but it's great to be able to go in and actually know that someone's coming in and they're gonna introduce you.

Alison Stewart (22:03)

You know, you'd be somebody's Jackson Pollock.

Leonardo Drew (22:04)

Yes.

Alison Stewart (22:06)

I've been speaking with Leonardo Drew, his two shows. One's at the Bruce Museum in Greenwich through May 10, and tomorrow it opens up at Pace Prince in Chelsea. Thank you for being with us.

Leonardo Drew (22:17)

My pleasure, honey. Absolutely.

Alison Stewart (22:19)

Coming up on tomorrow's show, it's Broadway on the radio. We'll be live in the green space with the stars of the Broadway musical Chess. I'll see you tomorrow.

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