How 'Flow' Captured Hearts, and a Golden Globe

Summary

Podcast Summary: All Of It – "How 'Flow' Captured Hearts, and a Golden Globe"

Episode Details

• Title: How 'Flow' Captured Hearts, and a Golden Globe
• Host: Alison Stewart
• Release Date: February 6, 2025
• Sponsor: Progressive Insurance

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Introduction

In this captivating episode of ALL OF IT, host Alison Stewart delves into the intricate world of animated filmmaking, spotlighting the Oscar-nominated film Flo. The episode features an in-depth conversation with Gintz Zibalotis, the creative force behind Flo, offering listeners an exclusive look into the film's conception, production, and acclaim. Additionally, the episode teases discussions on diverse cultural topics, including new documentaries, live musical performances, and insights from Oscar-nominated costume designers.

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Spotlight on Flo: An Interview with Gintz Zibalotis

The Genesis of Flo

Gintz Zibalotis shares the humble beginnings of Flo, tracing its roots back to his high school years when he animated a simple short film about his two cats. This passion project paved the way for subsequent shorts and his first feature film, Away.

[03:05] Gintz Zibalotis: "After the success of Away, I had an opportunity to work on a bigger scale with the team this time. I wanted to tell a story about a character who used to be very independent and then has to learn how to trust others and collaborate."

Transitioning from Solo Projects to Team Collaboration

Gintz discusses the challenges and thrills of moving from creating films independently to leading a collaborative team. This transition required him to effectively communicate his vision and harness the expertise of a diverse group of specialists.

[03:57] Gintz Zibalotis: "It was quite scary at first... I had to lead a team, which was both scary but also very exciting to work with people who are maybe smarter than me in all these specialties."

Crafting a Dialogue-Free Narrative

Flo distinguishes itself with its absence of dialogue, relying heavily on music and ambient sounds to convey emotions and advance the storyline. Gintz elaborates on his unique approach to scripting and composing, ensuring that the music not only complements but also guides the emotional landscape of the film.

[05:06] Gintz Zibalotis: "The music can be a lot more integrated... Because there is no dialogue, music plays, I think, in a much bigger role than most films."

Visual Storytelling and Camera Work

The film employs a "painterly" animation style, blending handmade textures with stylized visuals to create an immersive and expressive world. Gintz emphasizes the importance of visual choreography, where every camera movement reflects the characters' emotional states.

[07:40] Gintz Zibalotis: "With no dialogue, I can push the film in a more cinematic direction... The movement of the camera can express fear or curiosity or joy."

Embracing Open-Source Tools: The Role of Blender

Gintz highlights the significance of using Blender, an open-source software, in democratizing animation production. This choice not only made the creation of Flo feasible within a limited budget but also opened doors for filmmakers worldwide to express their unique perspectives without hefty software costs.

[09:14] Gintz Zibalotis: "Blender is a software you can just download for free... It will allow different perspectives being shared from different types of filmmakers and there can be more experimentation with the style of the film."

Achieving a Painterly Aesthetic

Opting for a painterly over a hyper-realistic style allowed Flo to maintain a balance between immersion and abstraction. This approach enhances emotional expression and ensures that the audience engages their imagination, making the storytelling more personal and relatable.

[11:06] Gintz Zibalotis: "I wanted it to look kind of handmade at some points... We have to imagine certain things; we're not creating something that looks hyper real."

Character Design and Thematic Depth

Flo features a solitary cat protagonist who forms an unlikely friendship with diverse animals, each embodying different traits that reflect the film's central themes of trust, collaboration, and belonging. Gintz meticulously designed these characters to ensure they are distinctive and relatable without the need for dialogue.

[14:33] Gintz Zibalotis: "The cat is alone and this character is kind of a loner... They have to overcome their differences and learn to trust each other."

Global Acclaim and Oscar Nominations

Upon Flo's release, it garnered significant acclaim, securing nominations for Best Animated Feature and Best International Film at the Oscars. This milestone marks a historic achievement for Latvian cinema, as no other Latvian film has previously received such recognition.

[17:24] Gintz Zibalotis: "This was a very big deal in Latvia because no other Latvian film has ever been nominated for any of these awards."

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Conclusion

Alison Stewart's engaging interview with Gintz Zibalotis offers a profound exploration into the making of Flo, highlighting the intersection of creativity, technology, and cultural storytelling. From the challenges of collaborative filmmaking to the innovative use of open-source tools, this episode provides listeners with valuable insights into the evolving landscape of animated cinema.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Gintz Zibalotis [03:05]: "I wanted to tell a story about a character who used to be very independent and then has to learn how to trust others and collaborate."

• Gintz Zibalotis [03:57]: "It was quite scary at first... I had to lead a team, which was both scary but also very exciting to work with people who are maybe smarter than me in all these specialties."

• Gintz Zibalotis [05:06]: "The music can be a lot more integrated... Because there is no dialogue, music plays, I think, in a much bigger role than most films."

• Gintz Zibalotis [07:40]: "With no dialogue, I can push the film in a more cinematic direction... The movement of the camera can express fear or curiosity or joy."

• Gintz Zibalotis [09:14]: "Blender is a software you can just download for free... It will allow different perspectives being shared from different types of filmmakers and there can be more experimentation with the style of the film."

• Gintz Zibalotis [11:06]: "I wanted it to look kind of handmade at some points... We have to imagine certain things; we're not creating something that looks hyper real."

• Gintz Zibalotis [14:33]: "The cat is alone and this character is kind of a loner... They have to overcome their differences and learn to trust each other."

• Gintz Zibalotis [17:24]: "This was a very big deal in Latvia because no other Latvian film has ever been nominated for any of these awards."

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Final Thoughts

This episode of ALL OF IT not only celebrates the success of Flo but also underscores the transformative power of accessible technology and heartfelt storytelling in shaping contemporary culture. For enthusiasts of animation, filmmaking, and cultural narratives, Alison Stewart's conversation with Gintz Zibalotis is both inspiring and enlightening.

Transcript

[Alison Stewart]

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[Gintz Zibalotis]

Listener Supported WNYC Studios.

This is all of It. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC Studios in soho. Thank you for sharing part of your day with us. I'm really grateful that you are here. On today's show we'll speak with the director of the new documentary Paint Me a Road out of Here which charts how Faith Ringgold's painting went from Rikers to the Brooklyn Museum. We'll also hear a live performance from first time group Grammy winners Tank and the Bangas. And we'll speak to the Oscar nominated costume designers from Gladiator 2. And on that note, we'll get this show started with the Oscar nominated film Flo. A solitary cat is the protagonist in the award winning animated film Floating. The cat is in the world alone, where humans don't exist, but there are clues that they suggest that they once did. We follow the cat as it attempts to find higher ground in a flood and figure out how to survive in a lush but lonely and dangerous world. Throughout its journey, it finds solace in a diverse group of animals including a sleepy capybira, a sympathetic dog, a sassy lemur and a devoted secretary bird. The film has no dialogue. It consists of only music, ambient sounds and the sounds of the animals. Our cats that'll yell, barking dogs, birds squawking. Let's take a listen to the trailer. It's a second feature from director Ginns.

I'm going to try your last name, Ziblotis Zibilotes, which also features the creative, the creative mind behind the 2019 animated film Away, which won best Animated film in its native Latvia. Flo took that same prize last year and also won the Golden Globe for best Animated Feature and New York Films Critics Circle Awards here in the States. And now it's up for an Oscar for best Animated Feature and Best International Film. Gintz is with us today. Hi Gintz.

Hello.

So how did you have the idea for Flo?

Well, it all started when I was in high school. I had two cats and I made a short film about them. So yeah, that's a very simple short that I did in hand drawn animation and after which I did many more shorts and my first feature, Away all of which I basically made by myself. And after the success of Away, I had an opportunity to work on a bigger scale with the team this time. And I wanted to tell a story about a character who used to be very independent like I was, and then has to learn how to trust others and to collaborate. So I revisited this idea of a cat being afraid of water and expanded the cast and made this feature film.

What was different for you in working on flow with a team versus working by yourself?

Yeah, it was quite scary at first. I'd never kind of worked in a studio as an employee, and now I had to be in charge of a team. So I had to learn how to kind of express my ideas so that everyone understands what my intention is, which I'd never done before. Because before I can just have an idea and I can make it. But this time I need to, yeah, lead a team. And that was. That was both scary but also very exciting to work with people who are maybe smarter than me in all these kind of specialities. Like, as a director, you know many things, but you're not like an expert. You just know the basics. And it was really great to kind of say someone to, like, give an idea to someone and they can, like, bring it to another level, which I couldn't do myself.

When you have an idea for a film, any film, especially one with no dialogue, I should say, how do you get your ideas down? Do you write notes? Do you write into your phone app? How do you get your ideas for a no dialogue film?

Yeah, I start by writing a lot of notes and they're very kind of. There's no, like, story yet. It's just ideas and some random emotions and. And plots, elements that I can later kind of weave together. And then. Then, yeah, start writing the script. And. And yes, even though there is no dialogue, we still need the script. And at the same time, I'm also developing the visuals and I'm also writing the music. I'm one of the composers on this film and I start writing the music really early while the script is still being written. And this is important for me to kind of find ideas for the story. I want the music to kind of guide the emotion and it even inspired some of the more kind of emotional scenes in the film. Had I not had this piece of music as early as I did, the whole story would be very different. And yeah, so I can edit the film later as well using my own music instead of using, like, temp music from other films.

That's so. That's so interesting. That you have emotion from the music which leads you to emotion in the animation.

Yeah, I think this way the music can be a lot more integrated. It's not kind of laid on top of a finished thing. It's really because music is so powerful, I don't want it to. I don't want to leave it as kind of the last thing I'm like, putting in the film. And. And yeah, because there is no dialogue, music plays, I think, in a much bigger role than most films. So, yeah, this isn't a silent film. This is a dialog free film. So the music and sound have a lot of responsibility. They have to carry the film in some way. And also, like, there is this kind of fun adventure story with the animals, but there's also kind of this more kind of philosophical aspect to the film about kind of exploring these more complicated emotions, which are really hard to explain with words. And I feel like I can only explain them through music or images. And, and. And so it kind of helps to have the music to convey what my intention is to the team and to the financiers when we were pitching the film. So, yeah, I still can't explain some of these things. It's like, I think the music kind of speaks for itself.

That's so interesting that you just described.

Flow as dialogue free.

Yeah. All the films I've made are without dialogue. And I think this allows me not just to push the music and sound, but also in this case, the camera work. So it's an animated film and there isn't a physical camera, but we have a virtual camera, which in this case it gets very kind of close and intimate with the characters. We have these very long shots in the film and there are two shots which are almost five minutes long. This means that there's no cutting between them and the camera just follows the characters. And in some of these shots, it starts from a wide shot, then goes into a close up, then jumps underwater and then flies up into the air. And there's this very complicated choreography happening with the camera and the characters. And hopefully you're not noticing it, you're not thinking about it, but it kind of helps me to convey what the characters are feeling because the movement of the camera can express fear or curiosity or joy. And so that was really exciting for me, like not having dialogue. I can push it can push the film in a more kind of cinematic direction, I think.

My guest is Ginza Bellottis. He's the guest writer and director of the film Flow. It's so beautiful when you think about the film, though, and I'm gonna need you to explain this to me like I'm a 5 year old. I'm sorry. You use an online program called Blender, which is open sourced. Explain to me like I'm a child how it works.

Yeah, well, Blender is a software you can just download for free, so that means that everyone has access to it and it's just as good as a tool as any of the more expensive tools. And I think this is very exciting that now kids can have these tools that feature films that are shown in theaters are using. And this will, I think, give a lot of opportunities to kind of people who might not have had a chance to express themselves before. And also like. So Flow is a very kind of small independent film. The budget is many, many times smaller than some of the bigger studio films here in the US So like, having this free tool really like, allowed us to kind of make a story like this. And, and we were able to make it in Latvia, where I'm from, so there isn't a big animation industry. And, and we made it with a very small team. And yeah, now that these tools are available, I think it will allow, like, different perspectives being shared from different types of filmmakers and there can be more experimentation with, with the style of the film, how the story is told. So I'm very excited for the future of independent animation.

Yeah, there are no gatekeepers.

Yeah, there. There are still some gatekeepers. Like, it was still kind of a lot of work to kind of kind of build up the funding for this film. It's very small budget, but. Yeah, but there's a. I think it' more accessible than it's ever been.

It's interesting. In some of the reviews of Flow, they've called this animation painterly in that it's not necessarily trying to look real. What do you like about it and. And what does it allow you to do?

Yeah, well, I wanted it to look kind of handmade at some points. Like, it's. But it's about finding the balance where it feels very immersive. It feels like this is a real lush world where you can sense all the wind and the water and all the textures. But at the same time, I think there is kind of a level of abstraction and stylization which allows us to push these images even further. And we can be more expressive with the colors and the shapes. And so you see some brush strokes within the textures. And to me, I think this can feel even more immersive because you have to imagine certain things we're not kind of creating something that looks hyper real where you don't have to imagine anything. But in this way we can kind of allow the audience to kind of see their own cat going on this adventure. And this also means that everything has to be designed. Like it has to have this look that fits within this films kind of look. And this is, I think that can be like great because it kind of stands out. It's like we have reached the hyper real level in animation. And where do you go from there? And I think now like all these different types of animated films are really like experimenting with the more abstract and stylized looks and there's like infinite amount of directions you can go towards. And so, yeah, I think this is also like just the beginning of things that can be explored in animation.

I have a couple of content questions about the film. Why is this the only cat we'll see in the film? We see one cat.

Yeah, well, we see groups of other animals, the dogs and the birds and the lemurs. But yeah, the cat is alone and this character is kind of a loner. Basically. It lives on its own and it's very independent and it's kind of introverted to a point. And, and that was the idea that it finds these, these other friends along the way. And even though they're very different, they have to kind of overcome their differences and learn to trust each other. And that's what the cat does. It befriends the dog and, and the bird and. But yeah, we don't see other cats, but we see these cat statues early on in the film, the giant fat statue. But these things aren't really explained. We have to kind of imagine what might have happened. So we wanted to kind of have these clues in the environments for, for you to kind of. You have to pay attention to discover them. We're not kind of spoon feeding all this information, but. But yeah, the environments in this film tell a story of their own of what might have happened to the humans. And. And they're also kind of telling you what the characters are feeling because there is no dialogue. We have to use environments in this case to kind of express what the cat is feeling. And the water in this film, which is. There's this big flood that destroys the cat's home. It's almost like a metaphor for the cat's feelings. So when the cat is afraid of these other animals, the water is very aggressive and scary. But when it starts to trust them, the water calms down and becomes more peaceful.

The cat makes this Motley crew of friends, a self absorbed lemur, a capybara. Why was it important for you to make his friends, the cat's friends, so different from each other?

Yeah. When I started to think about what kind of animals we choose, they all started with the cat, which was inspired by two cats I had. And there's also a dog, which again is inspired by dogs I've had in my life. And, and the dog is basically like the opposite of the cat. It's as the cat starts out being very independent and then goes on to be more trustful. The dog starts out being very trustful, always looking for someone to tell them where to go. But throughout the journey the dog learns to be more independent. So I wanted to show that there are positives and negatives to both of these ideas and it's about finding the right balance. And, and, and yeah, I'm considering how each of these characters are chosen based on the theme of the film, which is they're all basically want the same thing. They're looking for a place they belong or a group that accepts them. They just have different ways of achieving this and this creates conflict amongst them. But there are no heroes or villains. Hopefully we can relate to all of the characters. And I think the nature in this case is the source of. It's. That's the will and, but, but yeah, I wanted each of them to like. I was considering their silhouettes when designing them. Like they have to be very distinctive. Yeah. Because there is no dialogue that we can't. It's important that we can tell them apart. And I was also considering their voices and we recorded real animal voices for these characters, real cats and dogs. And it's kind of funny. I've seen videos online of cats and dogs watching this film and they seem to be really engaged by the film. And maybe it's the story they get really. They can relate to the characters, but I think it's more likely the sounds that they hear of real cat and dog voices. And that was important that these animals behave like real animals. They're not walking on two legs, they're not telling jokes, which we've seen many times. And that can be great. But I feel like when they act like real animals, we care for them much more. There's an innocence to these animals and we just want them to make it through and we can relate to them. And even though they act like animals, I think we as humans can. We have a lot more common with them. We have, we share similar instincts and fears and, and, and, and, and Joys. And so. And I wanted you to make. I wanted the audience to feel like they are the cats, to kind of create this very subjective experience that for like 80 minutes you can experience what it's like being a cat in this world.

I wanted to ask you, when you found out that you were nominated for two Oscars this year for Best Animated Feature and Best International film, first of all, where were you and what were your first thoughts?

I was at home in Latvia and I actually just stayed at home. I didn't want to go like out because it was just a intense moment. And I decided just to be with my dog, which inspired the dog character in this film. And that was kind of having the dog with me was kind of like a stress relief kind of method where I could just pet the dog. So. And yeah, I was at home and watched it live, of course. And this was a very big deal in Latvia because no other Latvian film has ever been nominated for any of these awards. And so there was a lot of excitement and not only we got nomination for the animated film, but also for international film. And this has just happened just a few times with an animated film. So that was a really big surprise for us as well that it happened. And yeah, then we went to celebrate with the team and it's been really crazy Journey.

The name of the film is flo. I've been speaking with this writer and director, Gins Zibalotis. It's nice to speak with you and congratulations, Gins.

Thank you.

[Alison Stewart]

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