How Sam Rogal Finds the Humor in 'The Power Broker'

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: All Of It
Host: Alison Stewart
Episode: How Sam Rogal Finds the Humor in 'The Power Broker'
Date: March 3, 2026

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Overview

This episode of "All Of It" explores how comedian Sam Rogal turns the dense, often infuriating subject of Robert Moses and urban planning into sharp comedy. Rogal, the creator and performer behind "The Power Joker"—a live monthly comedy show at Caveat NYC—joins Alison Stewart to discuss turning the weighty subject matter of Robert Caro’s Pulitzer-winning doorstop, The Power Broker, into laughs. Stewart and Rogal delve into the origins, format, challenges, and successes of the show, juggling humor with historical weight, and building a surprisingly passionate multigenerational community around New York’s most controversial city builder.

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Key Discussion Points

The Genesis of "The Power Joker"

• How It Started

  • Rogal first read The Power Broker at the pandemic’s onset, like many New Yorkers.
    • "I thought, why not read a book that is too heavy to bring on the subway?” (Sam Rogal, 02:52)
    • The book’s revelations about Moses' legacy left him "furious"—a reaction he found widespread.
  • Later, producer Evan Barden joined in after the "99% Invisible" book club, and together they found comedic potential in casting Moses as a powerless late-night talk show host.
  • "Wouldn't it be funny to have this guy who was so powerful and controlling have to get laughs...?" (Sam Rogal, 03:26)

• From Urban Planner to Comedy Villain

  • Rogal notes that like Colbert’s persona on "The Colbert Report," his Moses is both villain and butt of the joke.
    • "I think I'm the villain of The Power Joker. And I’m also the butt of all the jokes... because we want people laughing at Moses and at his policies.” (Sam Rogal, 04:07)

• Why a Late Night Format?

  • Rogal sees comedic potential in Moses navigating a modern audience and interviewing ideological opposites, noting, “Just putting them together on stage we thought would be funny.” (Sam Rogal, 05:26)

Building The Character and Show

• Influences and Style

  • Rogal’s Moses combines the real man’s stiff public persona with exaggerated Borscht Belt, Carson-esque showmanship.
  • "We wanted... to make him a little more bombastic and a little more energetic…something that matches my strengths as a performer as well.” (Sam Rogal, 05:56)

• Show Format

  • Sketch cold open tied to the evening’s topic.
  • A comedic explainer video for the uninitiated—a must for a book as daunting as The Power Broker.
    • “...our audience is very educated...when Caro comes up, he always gets an applause break. I think we might be the only comedy show in the city where Robert Caro gets applause.” (Sam Rogal, 07:19)
  • Rogal/Moses monologue, topical and crowd-work.
  • Guest comedians perform themed sets before a main interview (Moses in character) and a musical guest.
  • Every show ends with a call to action connected to the night’s subject.
    • "Here is some cause that needs your voice, your support, your donation..." (Sam Rogal, 08:20)

Themes, Guests & Community

• Topic and Guest Selection

  • Show themes mostly follow guest expertise. For example, a show with district leader Luke Olson centered on low-level NYC politics.
    • “We have a list of themes...but oftentimes, we’re just like, hey, let’s see whoever we can get, and then kind of build a show around them.” (Sam Rogal, 08:39)
  • The audience includes teachers, housing advocates, urban planning students, comedians, and transit nerds.
    • "We just got people from kind of all walks of life who are interested in urbanism." (Sam Rogal, 12:07)

• Making Urbanism Funny and Approachable

  • Rogal as “Moses” often plays the clueless authority, letting real experts break things down.
    • “To make it fun, I, as Moses, can also be an idiot...opens the door for people.” (Sam Rogal, 09:19)
  • Listeners point out Moses’s real talk-show appearances and even a disastrous public access stint.
    • "According to Caro, he ignored his guests and just lectured in monotone to the camera.” (Listener Text read by Alison Stewart, 17:55)

Tackling the Darker Side of Moses’s Legacy

• Addressing Difficult History
  • Rogal acknowledges Moses’ real-life bigotry and harm, aiming to handle tough topics with care and by bringing in educated guests.
    • "We try to handle it as delicately as we can, you know, and also allow people more educated than us to be the ones to really delve into it and discuss it.” (Sam Rogal, 11:33)

Creative Team & In-Jokes

• Cast and Deep Cuts

  • Rogal cites a rotating cast of comedians in roles as Nelson Rockefeller, Jane Jacobs, and mayors (“fleshing out” reference in-jokes for The Power Broker-savvy audience).
  • “I always have a yellow legal pad with me on the show, which is something that Moses used throughout his career. It’s a little nod again...” (Sam Rogal, 13:45)

• Physical and Musical Comedy

  • Rogal uses physicality in his act: “I allow my body to sort of radiate comedy during the show…” (14:22)
  • Musical guests provide “just a breather” to keep the show’s pace lively (14:45)

Notable Guests and Aspirations

• Getting Notable (and Unlikely) Guests
  • Rogal shares how Zoran Mamdani joined as a guest just as his candidacy became serious—he stuck with the show, participating in a “mock debate” with Moses.
    • "I thought he was going to drop out until the moment he walked in the door. But, hey, he kept his commitment. He spent a full hour with us." (Sam Rogal, 15:27)
  • Dream guests: Robert Caro, Stephen Colbert, Seth Meyers, and Lin Manuel Miranda.
    • "Anyone connected with the city...Lin Manuel Miranda, is another person we've really wanted...He really loves New York so much that we'd love to have him on." (16:31)

Challenges & Future Plans

• Growing the Show

  • Expanding reach and digital presence is a major goal; Rogal wants to tour the show to other cities—if audiences know or care about Moses!
    • “I mean, we’d love to...do a Philadelphia show, take the show to Toronto...about these other cities and allow them to have the same experience.” (Sam Rogal, 17:17)
    • "Is Moses that well known that you could take it around the country? That's a great question. Probably not...But the success here leads us to believe there is a population...interested in how your city functions." (17:31)

• Upcoming Shows

  • March 22: guest Jane August, covering NYC museums.
    • "Jane is a person who had a big social media project...She went to all 150 museums in New York." (18:16)
  • April 11: show on New York and movies, with Griffin Newman and David Sims (Blank Check Podcast).
    • "We're gonna talk about...the film industry again, how it buoys New York, what the process for filming in New York is like and how it brings attention to it." (Sam Rogal, 18:38)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the genius of Caro’s book:
  "For any New Yorker who reads that book...it will make you furious. It will boil your blood and curl your toes." (Sam Rogal, 02:52)

• On Moses’s villainy and the show’s comedic approach:
  “I think I'm the villain of The Power Joker. And I’m also the butt of all the jokes…” (Sam Rogal, 04:07)

• On audience makeup:
  "We have, like, urban planning students...other fellow comedians...teachers...a pretty diverse group. Evan used to fly her outside...the Transit Museum, which had a big Moses exhibit..." (Sam Rogal, 12:07)

• On jokes for the superfans:
  "I always have a yellow legal pad with me on the show, which is something that Moses used...little nod again..." (Sam Rogal, 13:45)

• On Moses public access TV:
  "According to Caro, he ignored his guests and just lectured in monotone to the camera." (Listener comment via Alison Stewart, 17:55)

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Episode Timestamps

• 01:39 – Introduction to Sam Rogal and "The Power Joker"
• 02:52 – Rogal’s Power Broker “origin story”
• 03:56 – Why a late night talk show?
• 05:53 – How Rogal shaped his Moses persona
• 06:48 – Full breakdown of the show’s format
• 09:19 – Making dense topics accessible and humorous
• 11:14 – Discussing Moses’s racist legacy and comedic boundaries
• 12:07 – Who attends and why
• 13:33 – Cast, research, Power Broker “deep cuts”
• 14:22 – Physical comedy in the show
• 14:45 – Role of music in the format
• 15:04 – Booking Zoran Mamdani; guest interactions
• 16:13 – Dream guest wish-list
• 17:02 – Aspirations for show growth
• 18:16 – Next show and topics (NYC museums, movies)

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Conclusion

Alison Stewart’s talk with Sam Rogal reveals how The Power Joker uses wit, absurdity, and deep local knowledge to foster fun and community around New York’s most infamous architect of the modern city. Rogal’s blend of satire, history, and audience participation is a fresh way for New Yorkers—and urban nerds everywhere—to laugh at the (sometimes disastrous) forces shaping the places we live. The show continues to mine both the humor and the heavy realities of Moses’s reign, proving that even the densest biography can spark fresh takes—and big laughs.

Next show: March 22nd, 5pm at Caveat NYC, with guest Jane August.

Transcript

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[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. If you've read the Power Broker or even if you haven't, you probably know Robert Moses as the powerful New York urban planner. Now imagine Robert Moses as a late night talk show host sans power. That is the premise for the monthly comedy show the Power Joker, a Robert Moses comedy special hosted by my next guest, Sam Rogal. Sam is an improv comedian who plays Robert Moses as he interviews guests and musicians as if he was like Stephen Colbert or Johnny Carson. Past guests have included then mayoral hopeful Zoran and Mamdani. How could Sam possibly make urban planning funny? You will just have to find out for yourself. The next show is on March 23rd at 5pm at Caveat in NYC on the lower east side. Put me on the list to preview the show and discuss his monthly series. I have now with me, the Power Joker himself, Sam Rogel. Nice to meet you Sam.

[Sam Rogal]

Nice to meet you. Thanks for having me.

[Alison Stewart]

All right, before we go any further, have you read the Power Broker?

[Sam Rogal]

Yes, yes I have. Don't worry.

[Alison Stewart]

Had to ask. We had to ask.

[Sam Rogal]

I understand.

[Alison Stewart]

So what is your power broker origin story? When did you get excited about it?

[Sam Rogal]

So, yeah, I read the book, like right when the pandemic started, as many people did. I had a lot more time at home and I thought, why not read a book that is too heavy to bring on the subway? And yeah, you know, for any New Yorker who reads that book, first of all, obviously it's an incredible book, deserving winner of the Pulitzer Prize, but it will make you furious. It will boil your blood and curl your toes. Because so many of the issues that we face in terms of transit specifically every day were caused by Robert Moses. And. Yeah. And then a few years later, my producing partner on the show, Evan Barden, read the book along with the 99% invisible read along that they did in 2024. And he came to me with this idea and was like, wouldn't it be funny to have this guy who was so powerful and controlling have to get like laughs in like a late night talk show style show? Um, and I was like, I like that idea.

[Alison Stewart]

Where did you. Why did you see potential in that idea?

[Sam Rogal]

I think it's just the juxtaposition of his policies with a modern audience I think is just funny on a base level. And to have him, you know, you mentioned Stephen Colbert and I think that's a really apt comparison of like, it's very similar to the Colbert rapport. Right. Where it's, you know, Steven is the villain of that show. I think I'm the villain of the power joker. And I'm also the butt of all the jokes, you know, because we want people laughing at Moses and at his policies.

[Alison Stewart]

So part of this conceit is that he has lost his power.

[Sam Rogal]

Yes.

[Alison Stewart]

Where did you get the idea that Robert Moses would lose his power?

[Sam Rogal]

Well, you know, he did in real life. And he's also dead, you know, and he's dead. And I also think that, like the wins have sort of, you know, the book itself, Caro's book changed a lot of people's opinions about him. You know, prior to that book coming out, he was seen as a positive figure, I think, in New York. And it took that book sort of exposing him. And so, yeah, for him to have to deal with that, deal with the public's swing towards one time a hero and then becoming a villain. Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

Why did you decide on a late night talk show as opposed to like a morning show or an afternoon show? I don't know why a late night talk show.

[Sam Rogal]

I Just think the idea of him having to like do a monologue and you know, true, like bring on, bring on a guest who he just fundamentally opposes. You know, like you mentioned, we had Zoran on our May show and basically all of his. Zoran's policies are like the antithesis of everything Moses stood for. Just an exact opposite. So just putting them together on stage we thought would be funny, just basically.

[Alison Stewart]

Who did you model the character after, aside from Robert Moses?

[Sam Rogal]

Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

What other characters did you bring into the mix?

[Sam Rogal]

So yeah, I would say he's sort of. Yes, like Carson's a good comparison. Sort of like a 50s like Borscht Belt comedian kind of a style. You know, we wanted, you know, Moses himself. We like watch some old interviews with him and he's sort of laid back and a little more like, he doesn't have like a big personality at least in his public facing Persona. So we needed to make him a little more bombastic and a little more energetic and something that matches like my strengths as a performer as well, you know, so. So that was sort of our approach to the character.

[Alison Stewart]

We are discussing the Power Joker, a Robert Moses comedy special, a monthly show caveat nyc on the lower east side. My guest is comedian Sam Rogel who plays Moses and is one of show's creators. You can catch the next show on March 22nd at 5pm okay, walk us through the format of the show.

[Sam Rogal]

Great. Yeah. So yeah, it's very similar to a late night talk show. Right. We usually start with a sketch like a little cold open, something related to whatever the topic is that we're discussing that night. Then we play like a one minute long video that just explains like who Moses is. The book, Robert Caro. Just to allow anyone who in the audience who is not familiar to sort of get the baseline. I like to say though that like our audience is very educated.

[Alison Stewart]

I would, I would imagine.

[Sam Rogal]

Yes. And when Caro comes up in the video, he always gets an applause break. I think we might be the only comedy show in the city where Robert Caro gets applause every time. He is also obviously our like dream guest to have on the show. He's a very hard man to get in touch with, but fingers crossed there. Um, yeah. And then I will come out, I'll do like a short monologue just like that's a little more topical, just like some jokes about what's going on. We'll do a little crowd work. Then typically we'll have a couple comedians who are our guests who will do like five minute pieces again. Either connected to the theme or connected to urbanism in general. And then we have sort of a longer interview with whoever our guest is. And, you know, that's a basically traditional interview, except that I. I, as Moses will just be. I'll be Mosesy during it. You know, I'll be Moses in. Yes, exactly. And then we usually have a musical guest and we play a game, and our big thing is having a call to action. I'm just saying. Yes, our guests will bring something connected to their topic that is like, hey, if you want to help this right now, here is some cause that needs your voice, your support, your donation, whatever. Here is something where your voice can really have a big impact today with whatever the topic is.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah. One of your recent shows was low level politics.

[Sam Rogal]

Yes. Yes.

[Alison Stewart]

How do you decide on your themes?

[Sam Rogal]

So a lot of times we build the theme around the guests that we book. We find, like, we have a list of themes that we want to do in the next year, but oftentimes we're just like, hey, let's see whoever we can get, and then like, kind of build a show around them. We were lucky to have Luke Olson on that show, who's a district leader, which is a position I had never heard of, but. And, you know, he was able to educate people on what's going on with, like, this current election year in New York. Interesting.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah, it's interesting because, you know, urban planning, even for the biggest nerds, it can be dense for most people. Yes. How do you go about making it fun, making it accessible for folks?

[Sam Rogal]

Yeah, I think, you know, we don't want to be, like, condescending or preachy in the show or anything. We want, you know, we assume that, like, they have a base level knowledge, but our guests are often really good at explaining what they're an expert at, you know, and then to make it fun, I, as Moses can also be an idiot. Like, you know, can also not really know what's going on and have to have things explained to me. Yes. That's kind of the approach that, you know, opens the door for people.

[Alison Stewart]

One of our listeners called in to say that Robert Moses was on the Tom Snyder show in the 70s.

[Sam Rogal]

I'm sure he was.

[Alison Stewart]

That's really interesting that he would put himself in that position.

[Sam Rogal]

I think he even. I believe he even had his own TV show. Yeah, he had a public access show for a little bit as well. Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

So the show describes you as someone who read the Power Broker before. It was cool. Okay, well, that's a discussion in itself. But no, it is. When do you think that shift happened? Because for a while, everybody was starting to reread the Power Broker or read it for the first time.

[Sam Rogal]

Yeah, I think, you know, I think, again, 99% invisible played a role in that in 2024. I think even before that, you know, with the way the federal government has been in the last, you know, 10 years or so, I think people have wanted to sort of go back a little bit and see if they can dig up, like, what happened, how we got here. And I think, especially in New York, with New York politics, you know, Moses played a really big role in that. So, yeah, I'm not surprised that there was, like, a big explosion of interest in the book. I mean, there's another show at Caveat that is about the Power Broker as well. Wow. Like, yes, that's also popular. So, yeah, it is kind of this wave of interest in him. I know that, like, they're trying to make a Netflix television show based on the book as well.

[Alison Stewart]

Matthew Reese, right?

[Sam Rogal]

Yes, yes. With Matthew Reese. Yes. Also Matthew Rhys, if you're listening. Hey, come on the show and promote it.

[Alison Stewart]

So I have a question. This is like, sort of the serious question out of this group is that, you know, Moses could be a mean figure. Right. He was especially racist towards black and brown New Yorkers. How do you consider that history as you were looking for humor or if you're looking for a subject to discuss?

[Sam Rogal]

Yeah, you know, it's. There are some heavy things that are inherent with the book, you know, and, yeah, there is a lot of that history. And, like, we try to handle it as delicately as we can, you know, and also allow people more educated than us to be the ones to really delve into it and discuss it.

[Alison Stewart]

Interesting.

[Sam Rogal]

Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

Who's your audience?

[Sam Rogal]

Yeah, so it's a really, like, eclectic, kind of diverse group. You know, we get a lot of, like, teachers, A lot of people who work in, like, accessible and affordable housing come to our show.

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, interesting.

[Sam Rogal]

Yeah, we have, like, some urban planning students. Like, we had a big group of urban planning students come, and we also have, you know, like, other fellow comedians and people who are just interested in comedy. Show up. Yeah, it's a pretty diverse group. You know, Evan used to fly her outside of the Transit Museum, which had a big Moses exhibit recently. I think it's still going on. So, yeah, we just got people from kind of all walks of life who are interested in urbanism.

[Alison Stewart]

We are discussing the Power Joker, a Robert Moses comedy special. It's a monthly show at Caveat. On the Lower east side, my guest is comedian Sam Rogel. Am I saying it right?

[Sam Rogal]

Rogal, yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

Who plays Moses and is one of the show's creators. You can catch the next show on March 22nd at 5pm in the month before the show. What kind of prep are you doing?

[Sam Rogal]

So, yeah, so our focus really is about making the show funny. Right. That's what the creative team wants to do. So that's me, Evan Barden. We also have some other comedians who sort of fill out the show. Will Jacobs, who plays Nelson Rockefeller on the show, who is sort of the one man who like, took Moses down. We also have Adrian Ianciello and Fallon Bowles, who sort of are our Swiss army knife people. Who can play like Jane Jacobs, his wives. Like other people. Like his brother. Yes. All those other characters from the book that sort of come up to give the show some sort of arc as well.

[Alison Stewart]

You have to sort of appeal to people in the audience on a general level. But like you said, you have a lot of people who are interested in deep cuts.

[Sam Rogal]

Yes. Oh, yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

On Power Broker. Yes. Examples of some deep cuts that you've gotten too.

[Sam Rogal]

Yeah. So I always have a yellow legal pad with me on the show, which is something that Moses used, like, throughout his career. So it's like a little nod again. Yeah, we like to pull like little tidbits from the book, like things between him and Rockefeller, things between him and all the mayors. Like all the different mayors and governors that he worked with and those he clashed with and agreed with. Like we had someone who played Filarello LaGuardia on the show. You know, things like that that allow those who have read the book to feel welcome as well.

[Alison Stewart]

How much do you use physical comedy in this show? Because he was described in a certain way.

[Sam Rogal]

Yeah, you know, some. I do the monologue sort of outstanding on stage. I am a very physical person. I'm a big gesturer, as I'm sure you're seeing live right now. So, you know. Yeah, I allow my body to sort of radiate comedy during the show as well.

[Alison Stewart]

So there's a musical aspect to the show. What role does music play in the power joker?

[Sam Rogal]

So that's more just to like break up the show again. Have the show sort of match the format of a late night show that has a musical guest. Just to give people, like a little bit of a breather. You know, it's a 90 minute show, so we want to give people like a little bit of a break. And yeah, just like relax and listen to some good music. Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

Where were you when you found out Zorin Mondami would be on your show?

[Sam Rogal]

Okay, so this is a. I mean, it's a fascinating story. So we asked him in February of last year, when he was polling at, like, 6%, and at that time was sort of seen as like, oh, an outsider candidate who's gonna get a chance to put these ideas out there and maybe in the future we'll see him. And we were a little surprised. He said yes, then. And then that was funny.

[Alison Stewart]

We're like, is that you? Are you punking me?

[Sam Rogal]

Is that him? Literally. And then between February and May, as we all remember, he became, like, a very legitimate candidate all of a sudden. And we were so worried that he was going to drop out because we were like, he's going to have to do actual important stuff now. And I was. I thought he was going to drop out until the moment he walked in the door. But, hey, he kept his commitment. He spent a full hour with us. We did, like, a mock debate on stage. Yeah. Where he, like, we'd ask a question, he would answer it, and then Moses would sort of respond, as you know, to how Moses would feel about whatever the policy he was talking about. Yeah. And he had a lot of fun with us. Like, he was fantastic. It was so cool to have him.

[Alison Stewart]

If you had to have a list of a list guests you'd like to have on your show, now is your time.

[Sam Rogal]

I know. I mean, we definitely want Caro again. That's our really big one. We've been trying. Trying. We want. I mean, I would love to get Colbert on as well, you know, to allow, you know, because our show is so styled after him. Yeah. Like, Seth Meyers would be great, too. You know, basically, like, anyone connected with the city, anyone who lives like Lin Manuel Miranda, is another person we've really wanted, because all of his stuff is so about New York. You know, like, in the Heights is about how that neighborhood functions. Right. Even Hamilton, he talks about putting the city together a little bit and the city's economy and things like that. Like, he really loves New York so much that we'd love to have him on as well.

[Alison Stewart]

What is something that you haven't been able to accomplish with the show and that you're really kind of working on?

[Sam Rogal]

Yeah. You know, we really want to. We want to expand and we want to grow, and we want the show to be accessible to people who live outside of New York as well. And we really want our, like, Internet presence to be a little more A little stronger. Like, we want to get our YouTube channel a little stronger, a few more followers so that. Yeah, I mean, we'd love to in the future, like, be able to take this show to Philadelphia and do a Philadelphia show, take the show to Toronto and do a Toronto show. You know, do shows about these other cities and allow them to have the same experience.

[Alison Stewart]

Do you think Robert Moses is that well known that you could take it around the country?

[Sam Rogal]

That's a great question. Probably not. I don't know. You know, maybe. I think, again, like, the book is getting more popular, he is getting a little more known. I think the success here leads us to believe that there is a population out there who are familiar with the book and familiar with him and are interested in just, like, how your city functions on a basic level.

[Alison Stewart]

We had a text regarding his public access show. It said it was a disaster. According to Caro, he ignored his guests and just lectured in monotone to the camera.

[Sam Rogal]

I am not at all surprised about that. He is not a charismatic person, you know, he is not like, he's not Mr. Personality. You know what I mean?

[Alison Stewart]

All right, your next show is on March 22. What is planned?

[Sam Rogal]

So we have Jane August, and it is a show themed around New York museums. And Jane is a person who had a big social media project a few years ago where she went to all 150 museums in New York. So, yeah, we're gonna talk about what role the museum plays in the city, you know, what museums are thriving, what museums need your help.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah.

[Sam Rogal]

And just how museums bring people to New York. And. Yeah, and then we also have a show April 11th at 7pm and that is our New York and Movies show. Oh, cool. Yes. Where we have. Our guests are Griffin Newman and David Sims from the Blank Check podcast. David is a film critic for the Atlantic. Griffin is an actor. And, yeah, they both are New Yorkers. And yeah, we're gonna talk about how, like, the film industry again, like, how it buoys New York, how what the process for filming in New York is like, how it helps the city and how it brings attention to it.

[Alison Stewart]

The show is called the Power a Robert Moses comedy Special. It's at Caveat on the Lower east side. My guest has been Sam Rigal. Thank you so much for being with us. The next show is on March 22nd at 5:00pm thanks, Sam.

[Sam Rogal]

Hey, thank you.

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, no, my coffee brawny here.

[Sam Rogal]

New brawny. 3 ply is now more absorbed. Wow.

[Alison Stewart]

Got a clean shirt.

[Sam Rogal]

Do you wear plaid, Ronnie?

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