How to Be More Selective With Your Screen Time (What the Hack)

Summary

Podcast Summary: All Of It – "How to Be More Selective With Your Screen Time (What the Hack)"

Episode Details:

• Title: How to Be More Selective With Your Screen Time (What the Hack)
• Host: Alison Stewart, WNYC
• Guest: Dr. Jacqueline Nisi, Assistant Professor of Psychiatry and Human Behavior at Brown University; Author of the Technosapiens Newsletter
• Release Date: January 27, 2025

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Introduction to Screen Time Challenges

In this episode of All Of It, host Alison Stewart delves into the pervasive issue of screen time and its impact on our lives. Many listeners grapple with managing their phone usage, often resolving to reduce screen time without knowing effective strategies. To explore this, Alison welcomes Dr. Jacqueline Nisi, an expert in technology use and mental health, to discuss developing healthier relationships with screens for both adults and children.

Defining Problematic Phone Use vs. Addiction

Alison opens the conversation by questioning whether device addiction is a reality. Dr. Nisi clarifies:

"I do think that people can have a problematic relationship with their device where it's interfering with other aspects of their life... it's getting in the way." [01:43]

She emphasizes the importance of mindfulness regarding device usage and its impact on daily functioning, differentiating between clinical addiction and excessive use that disrupts well-being.

Contagious Nature of Phone Use

Dr. Nisi discusses how phone use can be contagious in social settings:

"When one person picks up their phone, it makes it more likely that others will also pick up their phones... we're all just staring at our devices." [03:24]

This phenomenon often leads to diminished face-to-face interactions, highlighting the need for awareness and intentional phone usage around others.

Screen Time During the COVID-19 Pandemic

Reflecting on the pandemic's influence, Dr. Nisi notes:

"Phones were serving as a sense of social connection that we were missing... now, some of that use is actually getting in the way of social connection." [04:34]

While screens provided essential connectivity during isolation, the lingering habits may now hinder genuine interpersonal relationships.

Practical Hacks for Healthier Phone Use

The episode introduces various strategies, or "hacks," to foster a balanced relationship with smartphones:

1. Prioritizing Connection Over Passive Scrolling

Dr. Nisi advises:

"Use your phone to actively engage with others—call, FaceTime, reach out—rather than passively scrolling through social media feeds." [06:17]

This active use enhances meaningful connections, whereas passive usage can detract from real-life interactions.

2. Building Mastery Through Productive Activities

Encouraging the use of phones for skill development, Dr. Nisi explains:

"Building mastery involves finding skills you want to learn and practicing them... our phones are a great way to accomplish this." [10:24]

Callers share personal examples, such as Gretchen's experience with reading fantasy novels to replace unproductive scrolling.

3. Setting Screen Time Limits

Kate from Washington Heights shares her method using the Super Happy app, which requires interaction with AI to extend app usage limits. Dr. Nisi adds:

"Set time limits lower than your actual usage and enforce hard limits without the option to snooze." [14:31]

This approach prevents overestimation of permissible screen time and enforces discipline.

4. Transforming Commute Time into Productivity

Miguel from Nutley describes using his phone for writing during commutes:

"I've written dozens of short stories... it gives me a productive way to use my time on my phone." [17:39]

This strategy transforms idle time into creative and productive endeavors.

5. Enhancing Nighttime Routines for Better Sleep

Addressing nighttime phone use, Dr. Nisi recommends:

"Put your phone away from the bed and use a traditional alarm clock to improve sleep quality." [18:29]

Reducing nighttime screen exposure fosters better rest and overall well-being.

Managing Phone Use in Social and Professional Settings

Phones in Public Spaces like Salons

Erica from Queens expresses frustration with clients’ excessive phone use during salon visits. Dr. Nisi suggests:

"Politely addressing the issue or placing signs about limiting device use can encourage more in-person engagement." [16:43]

This fosters a respectful environment where personal interaction is prioritized over digital distraction.

Separating Work and Personal Life

A listener, identifying as a millennial, shares struggles with work-related phone overuse. Dr. Nisi advises:

"Be intentional with device parameters, such as turning off non-essential notifications and setting do-not-disturb modes." [14:57]

Creating boundaries helps maintain a healthy work-life balance.

Impact of Parental Phone Habits on Children

Dr. Nisi outlines two primary ways parents influence their children's phone use:

1. Modeling Behavior:

   "Kids copy what they see their parents doing on their devices... practice what you preach." [19:56]

2. Technoference:

   "Phones can interfere with interactions, making parents less responsive to their kids." [19:56]

Carla from the audience emphasizes the importance of setting examples, such as not using phones during family meals or in shared spaces like elevators.

Recognizing and Addressing Mental Health Concerns in Children

When phone use adversely affects children's mental health, Dr. Nisi advises looking for behavioral changes:

"Changes in desire to socialize, increased withdrawal, or secretiveness can be indicators." [22:38]

Engaging in open conversations about how technology impacts their well-being is crucial for parents.

Approaching Family Members About Excessive Phone Use

Marlene from Chelsea shares her strategy of a daily digi detox after morning routines. When concerned about family members' phone habits, Dr. Nisi suggests:

"Validate the challenge and collaboratively establish healthier device usage patterns." [24:47]

Creating a supportive dialogue fosters mutual understanding and commitment to change.

Final Tips for Mindful Phone Use

To cultivate mindfulness around device usage, Dr. Nisi recommends introducing friction:

"Change your phone’s password, turn off face ID, or rearrange apps to break automatic usage patterns." [25:33]

These small adjustments encourage deliberate phone interaction, enhancing overall awareness and control.

Conclusion

Alison Stewart wraps up the discussion by reiterating the valuable insights shared by Dr. Nisi and the community’s practical hacks. The episode underscores the importance of intentional phone use, setting boundaries, and fostering meaningful connections both personally and within families. Listeners are encouraged to explore strategies that align with their lifestyles to cultivate a healthier relationship with their devices.

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Notable Quotes:

• Dr. Jacqueline Nisi: "The word addiction is a tricky one because it really has a clear kind of definition in the literature... but I do think it makes sense for us to be mindful of our use and thinking about how it's impacting us day to day." [01:43]

• Dr. Jacqueline Nisi: "When we are using our phones around other people, it makes it more likely that those people are also going to pick up their phones." [03:24]

• Dr. Jacqueline Nisi: "Adding some distance between ourselves and our phones at night... try charging your phone outside of the bedroom." [18:29]

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Final Thoughts:

All Of It's episode on selective screen time offers a comprehensive exploration of phone usage habits, supported by expert insights and real-life experiences from listeners. By implementing the discussed hacks and fostering mindful interactions with technology, individuals can enhance their mental well-being and strengthen their interpersonal relationships.

Transcript

[Dr. Jacqueline Nisi]

Listener support, WNYC Studios.

[Alison Stewart]

You are listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Many of us have spent a good part of our lives in a love hate relationship with our phones. And maybe this year one of your resolutions was to find a way to decrease your daily screen time. But actually what works? Is it putting time limits on certain apps? Deleting them altogether? Sleeping with your phone in another room? In our what the Hack series, where we crowdsource solutions to problems, we'd like to welcome Dr. Jacqueline Nisi, Assistant professor at Brown University and author of the weekly newsletter Technosapiens. We're gonna talk about some new phone habits and developing a healthier relationship with screens for both adults and kids. She tackled it in her most recent newsletter, Jacqueline Welco to all of it.

[Dr. Jacqueline Nisi]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Alison Stewart]

Listeners, we want to hear from you. What is your hack for dealing with your phone? How have you developed a healthier relationship with your devices? Do you set rules around screen time for yourself or maybe you do it for your kids? Tell us what has worked for you. Give us a call. 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. You can call in or you can text to us at that number or you can reach out via social media. Lnyc. Jacqueline, do you really think that someone can become addicted to their device?

[Dr. Jacqueline Nisi]

This is a good question and there's a lot of controversy about this in the field of technology use and mental health. I think that the word addiction is a tricky one because it really has a clear kind of definition in the literature. It mostly focuses on substances, so addiction to drugs or alcohol, although there are certain behavioral addictions like gambling that are also recognized. I do think though that certainly people can have a problematic relationship with their device where it's interfering with other aspects of their life. They're using it excessively. It's really getting in the way. And so no matter what we call it, I do think it makes sense for us to be mindful of our use and thinking about how it's impacting us day to day.

[Unknown Host]

When you're saying use, the use of it is problematic. Give me an example.

[Dr. Jacqueline Nisi]

Yeah, so I think that the way to know if our our phone use is problematic is really to be thinking about is it interfering? So is it getting in the way of other things that we know are important for our mental health and well being. So things like is it getting in the way of our sleep? You know, are we staying up late scrolling instead of sleeping? Is it getting in the way of our social relationships? You know, we're putting our device use over our time spent with family and friends. Is it getting in the way of time outside of physical activity? All these things that we know are important for us. If our devices are interfering with that, I think that's a good indication that it's becoming a bit problematic.

[Alison Stewart]

You wrote a little bit about phones being. Phone use being contagious. What do you mean when you say that?

[Dr. Jacqueline Nisi]

Yeah, so there's some research that suggests that when we are using our phones around other people, it makes it more likely that those people are also going to pick up their phones. And I think this is probably no surprise to anyone who has ever been in a social situation where one person picks up their phone and then the other people start to get tempted and pick up their phones, and before we know it, we're not talking to each other. We're all just staring at our devices. And so this is certainly something to watch out for. I think that, you know, we just need to be careful when we're around friends and around family, when we're around our kids, we need to be aware of what kind of phone use we are engaging in and what we're modeling for the people around us.

[Alison Stewart]

We're approaching the fifth anniversary of the COVID 19 pandemic, and for a lot of us, our phones were really our way to get through the day, to get to the outside world, to engage with other people.

[Unknown Host]

I definitely see it with teenagers.

[Alison Stewart]

What habits do you think that we developed during that difficult period of time that it would be a good idea to start letting go of?

[Dr. Jacqueline Nisi]

I think that when we think about phone use during the pandemic, one of the functions that it was serving for so many people, including teens, was that sense of social connection that we were missing out on because of the pandemic. And I think that's what we need to be thinking about now is when are our phones actually encouraging social connection? When are they helping us connect with other people? When are they allowing us to make plans or to reach out to people we care about? Maybe we're facetiming with friends and it's making us feel more connected, but when is it actually interfering with social connection? Right. When is it getting in the way? And I think that during the pandemic, we sort of started to err on the side of trying to use our phones to increase that connection. And in some cases, that isn't serving us anymore. In some cases, I think that that use of our Phones is actually getting in the way of social connection.

[Unknown Host]

My guest is Dr. Jacqueline Nisi. She's an assistant professor of psychiatry and human behavior at Brown University. She's the author of the weekly Techno Sapiens newsletter. We're discussing how to develop a healthier relationship with your phone. We're invited you to call in for this edition of what the hack. What hacks have you used to develop a healthier relationship with your device? Do you set rules around screen time for you, for your kids? What's worked? 2124-3396-9221-2433 w. One of the hacks you have is one of your guidelines is to have a better relationship with your phone. You need to prioritize connection. What does that mean in terms of the context of our smartphone?

[Dr. Jacqueline Nisi]

Right. So I think there are things that we can do on our phones that do actually prioritize connection where they might increase our sense of connection with other people. Things like we can call someone, we can, we can facetime, then we can reach out. If it's active where, you know, we're taking steps to engage with someone else and it's directed, we're reaching out to someone specifically. Rather than just, you know, scrolling through our social media feeds or something like that, that's a good sign that the phone is helping us actually connect with other people. On the other side of that, we have, of course, the situations where our phone's getting in the way of social interactions, right? Where we're, you know, we're scrolling social media instead of actually connecting with somebody in person or connecting with somebody via our device. So I think being aware of those, that difference of when it's helping us and when it's hurting us in terms of our social connection can make a big difference.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's take a few calls. Let's talk to Adam who is calling from Brooklyn. Hi, Adam, thanks so much for calling all of it. You are on the air.

[Adam]

Hi guys. Thanks for taking my call.

[Alison Stewart]

What do you think about your phone these days?

[Adam]

Same thing. As soon as I got one, I realized basically it's, it's somebody put a chain to. To my personal life and now they can reach me anytime they want to.

[Alison Stewart]

And that makes you upset because it's not upset.

[Adam]

I mean, the reality of it is that, you know, this is today's world, this is how we live in it and stuff. But we have, we have no devices to basically limit so many different things. It's not even our bosses are reaching us out. Different time, you know, weekends or Nights and stuff. But also the attached Internet to it basically is a feeding line for all the advertisers and anybody who wants to control and get connect like any information out of us and collect that and stuff. And it's basically we're becoming like those zombies that are attached to the phone and we have no say in who gets into our private lives. You know, the listening devices. You have a conversation about something and then you get ads on your phone, you know, looking for. For you to buy something, all that. It's, you know, I'm a private person. I never liked that. 2005, when I saw what happened with the Facebook, I was like, I'm not doing this.

[Alison Stewart]

Yep, totally got you. Thank you so much for calling in. Let's talk to Gretchen. Hey, Gretchen, you're on the air.

[Gretchen]

Hi. I love this discussion. And I'm someone that hacked recently really worked in my life. I had twins in July, so I found myself spending a lot of time on my phone when my babies fell asleep on me. You can't really get up and go get the book you were hoping to read or, you know, go cook, so you're really stuck with your phone. And I was. I was upset with how much I was still scrolling Reddit or Instagram or giving myself doomed feelings about how I'm doing everything in parenthood wrong according to the Internet. So I had previously only used my books app for things. Like in my academic Life, I'm a PhD student, so I only had these, like, you know, what felt like homework novels on there, and I allowed myself permission to, like, download, you know, little risque witch books type genres and found myself, you know, giving myself something fun to do on my phone because sometimes I am just stuck with my phone with my babies in place, and I can't move and go get anything else. And so that hack really worked for me. My reading shot up when I didn't feel like it was homework. And, yeah, so that's my hack. And I recommend the witch risque genre, everybody.

[Dr. Jacqueline Nisi]

Whatever.

[Gretchen]

It's called fantasy. Whatever.

[Unknown Host]

Thank you. That is a good hack. You know, Jacqueline, that actually gets me to your hack number two. You suggest that one positive way to use your phone is to build mastery. How would that apply when we're using our phone?

[Dr. Jacqueline Nisi]

Yeah, so I think that in terms of using our devices, a lot of times we do talk about limits and ways things not to do. And that's, you know, of course, really important. But the other side of that, which relates to what this caller just so wisely shared, is that we can use our phone to actually increase happiness. You know, we can be thinking about what are the things that we do on our phones that could actually bring us joy. So one of those things is building mastery, which is a term that comes from the dialectical behavior therapy, DBT research and practice. And the idea behind that is that we are finding skills, finding things that we want to learn, and then we are going out and practicing them and learning them. And so our phones are actually a great way to accomplish this. We know that we can be finding tutorials on anything from cooking to new types of exercise, whatever it might be that we wanna learn, we can find that on our device. And I think that's certainly a positive use that can increase happiness for a lot of people.

[Unknown Host]

We're discussing how to have a healthier relationship with your phone. My guest is Jacqueline Nisi. She's an assistant professor of psychiatry and human behavior at Brown University. You are my guest as well as we are developing a what the heck to do with our phones. How have you developed a healthier relationship with your dev? Give us a call. 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. We'll have more after a really quick break. This is all of it.

[Alison Stewart]

You are listening to all of it on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is Dr. Jacqueline Nisi, Assistant professor of psychiatry and human behavior at Brown University. She's author of the Techno Sapiens newsletter. I suggest you sign up for it.

[Unknown Host]

I enjoy it.

[Alison Stewart]

She talked about how to develop a healthier relationship with your phone. Let's talk to Kate who is calling us from Washington Heights. Hi, Kate.

[Kate]

Hi. I wanted to share that I use an app called Super Happy and it's an app that puts limits on whatever apps you want to do. So I put a limit on the time I can use Instagram and in order to get it unlocked, I have to actually converse with AI and it asks me how long I want it to be unlocked for and what I'm going to do. So sometimes typing that out, I realize I'm just going to be. I'm asking for 30 minutes so I can scroll. It's kind of silly, so I think it helps me at least.

[Alison Stewart]

Thanks, Kate. That's a good tip. Jacqueline, do you recommend putting time limits on your phone for certain apps?

[Dr. Jacqueline Nisi]

Yeah, that was a good tip. Yeah. So the research on time limits is really interesting. Actually. It suggests that there are a couple things that we should really be keeping in mind when we are setting screen Time limits. So the funny thing about this research actually is that sometimes when we set limits, it actually increases the amount of time that we spend. And the reason why that can happen is let's say we want to use. We say we want to use Instagram for a maximum of one hour per day. We set a time limit for one hour. And then psychologically, we actually think, okay, I've budgeted that one hour to spend on Instagram. And if we were going to spend less than that, we don't, because we think we actually have this hour to spend. And so the key with setting time limits is two things. One is to set them lower than what you think you'd actually. What would actually be the maximum you want to spend? Right. So set them lower than you think. The second piece is to have them be hard limits. So not the types of limits where you can request more time or where you can sort of delay it and snooze the notification and just spend 15 more minutes, really have it be a hard stop. And there are certain apps that, that allow for that.

[Unknown Host]

This text is interesting. It says, I'm a millennial and I feel like I have to put in a lot of work to advocate for separating my work life from my phone, email, texting team chats. My older generation supervisors would message me all. And I had to turn off all work apps. They were shocked that the notifications bothered me. That's interesting. Notifications should go off too. Yes.

[Dr. Jacqueline Nisi]

Yeah, this is such a good point. I think that's one of the things that makes it so hard for us to be using our phones in healthier ways, is that there are a lot of uses of our phones that are kind of essential to our lives. Right. Like using it for work. And so it really speaks to needing to be intentional about the parameters we set up around device use. And for a lot of people, that's going to mean, yes, turning off notifications or putting your phone on some kind of do not disturb mode where you're actually intentionally selecting what kinds of notifications are you going to allow and what kinds are you not going to allow at different times of day?

[Alison Stewart]

Let's talk to Erica from Queens. Hey, Erica, thank you so much for calling into the show. You're on the air.

[Erica]

Hey, how are you doing? Great. So real quick, I work at a salon, and I have tons of people coming in, you know, glued to their phones to the point where, like, I go to call somebody to take, you know, take my next customer, they won't even look up from their phones. Like, they won't even look me in the eye. They won't say hello. Like, sure, they'll follow me to the seat. Right. And it's not just like young people. It's like people in their 30s, 40s, and 50s. And I, I know a lot of people work from home and I could visibly see people checking email. And I also see people just scrolling on Instagram. And I just think it's a little disrespectful if somebody's trying to provide you with a service. And, you know, sometimes I have to say, like, oh, could you, like, move this way? Could you, I don't know, move that way or whatever, look up and do you have any tips or, you know, any advice on how to politely ask people to please get off their phone so I could do my job?

[Unknown Host]

Jaclyn, what do you suggest?

[Dr. Jacqueline Nisi]

It's a great question. And I'm sure you are not the only person who, who has experienced that. Yeah. You know, I think that what you suggested how, you know, having a polite conversation with them is certainly, certainly one option. You could always consider putting up a sign in the, you know, at the salon asking that people limit their device use. You know, there's actually interesting research on, on this as well that we, you know, people tend to think that if we're going into, like, a public setting, like a salon, that we'll be happier and we'll be less bored if we spend some time on our device on our phone. But in reality, what the research shows is that when we do that, we end up less happy at the end. Our moods end up being lower when we spend the whole time staring at our devices instead of connecting with the people around us. So maybe you could try mentioning some of that research to some of your clients.

[Unknown Host]

Let's talk to Miguel from Nutley.

[Alison Stewart]

Hey, Miguel, thanks for calling, all of it.

[Miguel]

Hi, thanks for taking my call. One of the things I've learned to do with my phone is I commute into the city from New Jersey. So I'll be on the bus or on a subway and I'll write in a doc on my phone. And I don't even need a special app. I just use Google Doc or I just use notes. And I've written dozens of short stories. Some have been published. I participate in a lot of writing competitions and it gives me the time I wouldn't normally have if I were driving in or if I were doom scrolling. It gives me a productive way to use my time on my phone.

[Unknown Host]

That's an excellent hack. Thanks for the information. That's terrific. I have a question for you Dr. Nisi. Nighttime. I need a hack for nighttime. What should I do?

[Dr. Jacqueline Nisi]

Yeah, I think that this is one of the biggest tips that I would suggest around phone use is that we do have really good evidence that using our phones at night in the time when we would normally be trying to get to sleep can not surprisingly interfere with the quality of our sleep, the amount of time that we're sleeping and then our tiredness the next day. So it really makes sense to try to get your phone away from the bed so not within reach of the bed. That is one of the biggest factors with our phones that I think can make a big difference in our day to day happiness is putting some distance between ourselves and our phones at night. The simplest hack for that is to get an alarm clock. It sounds simple, but so many people rely on their phones as an alarm and we kind of forget that there's a simple way around that. So try charging your phone outside of the bedroom at night.

[Unknown Host]

This says. Thanks for the segment, Alison. My simple suggestion, simply shut off the phone and play some vinyl music. Garth Hudson, last surviving a member of the band recently passed highly recommend the Last Waltz. Thanks for your text by the way. All right, we're going to spend the rest of the time talking about kids to the top of the hour. This is tough. How can the phone habits of parents affect the kids relationship to the phone?

[Dr. Jacqueline Nisi]

This is a great question and I think there are two main ways that we think about parents phone habits impacting kids habits. So the first is just modeling. We know that kids see what we're doing on our devices as parents and they copy it. They see what we're doing as an example of what to do or in some cases what not to do. We want to make sure that we're really modeling the type of phone use that we want to see in our kids. The second way that our phone use impacts our kids is through what's called techno ference which is a combination of the words technology and interference. And this is just basically the idea that when we are around our kids, sometimes our devices, our phones can interfere with our interactions with them. So maybe we're getting distracted on our phones, we're not responding as quickly to them, we're not as responsive to their needs to the conversation and so really being aware of that, of course there are going to be times when we are on our phones around our kids. I don't think it's realistic to think that would never happen. But I do Think it's worth being mindful of. Are there times when it's really interfering with our ability to connect with them, with our ability to have a conversation and to really try to limit that?

[Alison Stewart]

Let's talk to Carla. Hi, Carla, thanks for so much for calling, all of it. You're on the air.

[Carla]

Hi. So, you know, you were talking about relationships with kids and I think you really hit the point where how do we deal the relationship with our kids and phones? So my kids are tweens and I have, I do have a 15 year old and it really is my phone modeling around them that it's, you know, practice what you preach. Not having it at the table. We have limited time. Not in the elevator. And pointing out when we're in the elevator, we're in a restaurant and someone's really loud, like how distracting that is.

[Dr. Jacqueline Nisi]

Right.

[Carla]

And how distracted takes away from family time or interpersonal time. And so much so I've thought about this. I've wanted to put in our building, we have a rather large building, a sign that says elevator phone etiquette because it's just so distracting when people get in. And so all the points you've made have been really great. But I think, yeah, when it comes to kids, just you have to model first.

[Unknown Host]

Right.

[Carla]

And you need to practice what you preach.

[Alison Stewart]

Thank you so much for the call, Jaclyn. What are some of the warning signs that maybe your kid's mental health is really being affected by their cell phone and also their social media usage?

[Dr. Jacqueline Nisi]

Yeah, I think that the, you know, the first thing to know about kids mental health in relation to phones and social media use is that of course, mental health is a really complicated topic and there are so many different factors that all play into mental health. So certainly their device use, their social media use could be one factor that's playing in. But it's really important as a parent to be thinking as well about the whole picture, what else is going on in their lives as well. And then, yeah, I think that in terms of mental health, I think we want to be really looking out for changes in behavior. So drastic changes in what their behavior looks like, you know, changes in their desire to socialize, being more withdrawn, being more secretive. These are all, you know, things to look out for in terms of mental health, generally with kids. And then when it comes to device use, when it comes to their social media use, I would say paying attention to how they seem to feel before, during, and after that use. Right. So really trying to get a sense of how it is impacting them and asking them as well, you know, how do they think it's impacting them? What, what effects are they noticing? Where are they finding that it's working for them? It's making them feel good, it's making them connect with their friends. And where are they finding that they're running into challenges? I think those are really important conversations for us to be having.

[Unknown Host]

These are great hacks. I play the piano, but I've never been a good sight reader. I found several really good apps which I use during down times, waiting in the doctor's office or on the subway instead of doom scrolling. And my sight reading has dramatically improved. I only turn on my phone after my morning meditation, shower and breakfast. A delicious daily digi detox. That's Marlene from Chelsea. If you're thinking to yourself, I think there's some of my family who's perhaps too attached to their phones. How should you approach it?

[Dr. Jacqueline Nisi]

This is another tricky question, and I think a good one. You know, I think that one thing we can do here is really try to validate how challenging this is for all of us. Right? We're all victim to the challenges of navigating our device use. Our phones are really designed to be used somewhat mindlessly, to be hard to put down. And so I think the thing we really want to start with when we're having these conversations with our kids, family members, friends is validating that this is hard, this is hard for all of us, and that there are steps we can take to establish a healthier relationship with our devices.

[Alison Stewart]

Is there one thing that people who are listening right now could do to help improve their relationship with their phone?

[Dr. Jacqueline Nisi]

Yes. I think that the first step is figuring out what is working for you and what is not. And one way to do that is to try to create a little bit of. Of friction around your device use, to sort of slow yourself down, force yourself to think about how you're using your device. So there are a couple ways you can do that. Things like changing your password to your phone or turning off face ID so that it takes you an extra second to log in. You could even try rearranging the apps on your home screen, which kind of forces you to again, take a second before you automatically reach for that app that you tend to use. That can help to really slow down and break up your typical patterns and increase a bit of mindfulness around your use.

[Alison Stewart]

My guest has been Dr. Jacquelinesi, Assistant professor of Psychiatry and Human Behavior at Brown University, author of the Technosapiens newsletter. She helped us figure out a healthier relationship with our phone. Thanks so much, Jacqueline.

[Dr. Jacqueline Nisi]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Alison Stewart]

And thanks to everybody who called with all of those great hacks from the post it note to the I Heart New York logo. Up next, we'll talk about some designs that have changed the world. We'll speak with the curators of a new show at MoMA called Turning Points in Design. That's happening after the news.