How to Behave Yourself This Holiday Season

Summary

All Of It: “How to Behave Yourself This Holiday Season” – Detailed Summary

Release Date: December 23, 2024
Host: Alison Stewart
Guest: Nick Layton, Co-Host of the Podcast “Were You Raised by Wolves”

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Introduction and Overview

In the December 23, 2024 episode of All Of It, hosted by Alison Stewart, the focus centers on navigating the complex landscape of holiday etiquette. Alison introduces Nick Layton, co-host of the etiquette-focused podcast “Were You Raised by Wolves,” to delve into various aspects of holiday behavior, from gift-giving to hosting and being a considerate guest. The episode emphasizes maintaining harmony and reducing stress during the holiday season by adhering to thoughtful etiquette practices.

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Holiday Etiquette: General Discussion

The episode opens with Alison Stewart addressing common holiday stressors—hosting responsibilities, visiting family, political or social disagreements, and accommodating tourists. Nick Layton explains that the high volume of social interactions during the holidays increases the likelihood of etiquette missteps.

Notable Quote:

• Nick Layton (01:58): “I think this time of year is tricky because there's just a lot more etiquette events. The percentages of etiquette crimes just go up.”

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Gift Giving Etiquette

Nick Layton and callers discuss the nuances of gift-giving. The emphasis is on the intention behind gifts and expressing genuine gratitude, even if the gift isn't perfect.

Key Points:

• Selecting Gifts: Gifts should aim to please the recipient, reflecting thoughtfulness rather than expense.

  Quote:

  • Nick Layton (03:22): “Gift giving is all about selecting something to please the recipient. The intention is what matters.”

• Receiving Gifts: Show gratitude regardless of personal preference for the gift.

  Quote:

  • Nick Layton (04:02): “Take responsibility and don't make the gift giver’s problem if the gift misses the mark.”

• Regifting: It's acceptable only if not within the same social circle. Transparency and honesty are crucial to avoid hurt feelings.

  Quote:

  • Nick Layton (11:07): “You are allowed to regift if you can get away with it, but never within the same circle.”

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Hosting Etiquette

When hosting, creating a relaxed atmosphere is paramount. Nick outlines three key rules for being a good host:

1. Stay Relaxed: Hosts should enjoy the event to make guests feel comfortable.

   Quote:

   • Nick Layton (08:27): “You want to throw the type of party that will make you the most relaxed.”

2. Plan the Flow: Anticipate guests' movements and needs to ensure a smooth experience.

   Quote:

   • Nick Layton (08:35): “Think through the flow—where will guests place their coats, where to sit, beverage stations.”

3. Avoid Over-Hosting: Recognize that most people don’t regularly entertain and keep gatherings simple.

   Quote:

   • Nick Layton (09:19): “Don’t overdo it; the fact that you’ve invited people is already gracious.”

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Being a Good Guest

Being a considerate guest involves active participation, punctuality, and recognizing when to leave.

Key Points:

• Engage with Others: Avoid being aloof or disengaged; participate in conversations.

  Quote:

  • Nick Layton (13:19): “Be a good guest by showing up ready to participate and engage with others.”

• Respect Time: Arrive and depart as appropriate to avoid overstaying.

  Quote:

  • Nick Layton (13:45): “Be mindful of the event’s timing and know when it’s time to go.”

• Express Gratitude: Follow up with thank-you notes or messages to show appreciation.

  Quote:

  • Nick Layton (14:25): “Send a thank you note or a message to express gratitude for the host’s efforts.”

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Managing Holiday Stress and Etiquette Challenges

Alison and Nick tackle specific challenges such as handling unwanted gifts and managing hosting burdens within families.

Key Insights:

• Handling Disappointments: React to unwanted gifts with grace and avoid making the giver feel bad.

  Quote:

  • Nick Layton (12:07): “Express gratitude even if the gift isn’t to your liking, and avoid resentment.”

• Hosting Burdens: Strategies for relinquishing hosting duties respectfully.

  Quote:

  • Nick Layton (15:33): “Announce a break from hosting and invite others to take up the mantle.”

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Travel Etiquette During Holidays

Holiday travel can be fraught with etiquette pitfalls. Nick advises maintaining patience and understanding amidst the chaos of airports and crowded public spaces.

Key Points:

• Be Patient and Humorous: Recognize that stress is common and approach situations with a light-hearted attitude.

  Quote:

  • Nick Layton (21:20): “Have patience and a good sense of humor to navigate the temporary unpleasantness of travel.”

• Respect Personal Space: Be mindful of others’ need to move efficiently in crowded environments.

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New York City Tourist Etiquette

The episode shifts focus to specific etiquette tips for tourists visiting New York City during the holidays, highlighting the city's unique pace and behavior expectations.

Advice for New Yorkers:

• Efficient Movement: Encourage tourists to keep moving on sidewalks and escalators, respecting the local rhythm.

  Quote:

  • Nick Layton (22:34): “Remember that tourists might not be familiar with the fast-paced New York rhythm. Encourage patience and quick navigation.”

• Empathy for Visitors: Understand that tourists are adapting to a different etiquette environment and offer guidance kindly.

  Quote:

  • Nick Layton (26:04): “Show empathy for tourists as they acclimate to New York's unique pace and etiquette norms.”

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Handling Negative Comments About New York

Nick advises New Yorkers to adopt a non-defensive stance when faced with criticisms of the city, emphasizing personal satisfaction over defending public perception.

Key Insights:

• Selective Defense: Choose not to engage with disparaging remarks about the city unless it aligns with personal willingness.

  Quote:

  • Nick Layton (25:00): “Don’t feel obligated to defend New York to those who don’t understand it. Focus on your own positive experiences.”

• Embrace Identity: Recognize the unique aspects of New York that might not align with outsiders' expectations.

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Thank You Notes and Gratitude in Etiquette

Expressing gratitude is a fundamental aspect of holiday etiquette, whether through traditional thank you notes or modern digital messages.

Key Points:

• Flexible Gratitude: Depending on the relationship and context, thank-yous can range from handwritten notes to text messages or even video clips.

  Quote:

  • Nick Layton (29:56): “How you express gratitude can vary—use notes, texts, or videos to acknowledge gifts and hospitality.”

• Acknowledgment: Regardless of the method, ensuring the giver knows their effort is appreciated is essential.

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Closing Remarks

In the episode's conclusion, Nick Layton emphasizes that etiquette is fundamentally about acknowledging and respecting others. Simple acts of kindness and consideration can lead to harmonious holiday interactions.

Final Thought:

• Nick Layton (32:03): “With all etiquette, it’s about remembering that other people exist. If we can remember that, we’re on the path to etiquette nirvana.”

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Conclusion

This episode of All Of It provides comprehensive insights into managing holiday etiquette challenges. From gift-giving to hosting and traveling, Nick Layton offers practical advice aimed at fostering respectful and enjoyable holiday experiences. The discussion reinforces the importance of empathy, gratitude, and thoughtful consideration in maintaining joyful and stress-free celebrations.

Transcript

[Nick Layton]

Listener support WNYC Studios.

[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it. I'm Alison Stewart. Thank you for spending part of your day with us. I'm really grateful you're here and I hope you are warm and cozy right now. On today's show, we're going to have an attitude of gratitude. Today we'll speak with the director of New York Cares about how to find meaningful volunteer opportunities. We'll also speak to Chris Duffy, the host of the podcast how to be a better Human about how to avoid cynicism. Plus, we want to hear what you're grateful for this year. And speaking of grateful, we'll hear my conversation with my neurosurgeon, Dr. Randy D'Amico, about how about the brain surgery he performed on me last February? That's the plan. So let's get this started with a gracious conversation about to handle how to how to handle some tricky situations. The holidays are a time to rest and be with loved ones. But if we're not careful, we can create more stress than joy. You might be hosting this year or you're a guest in someone's home or you're nervous because you disagree with that uncle or grandpa about a certain political or social issue. Or you may be an inadvertent host to all the tourists in our area. But do not fret. There are holiday etiquette practices that you can ensure your holiday gatherings will go smoothly. Nick Layton is the co host of the podcast were you raised by wolves? The show tackles thorny etiquette questions and gives advice. And Nick is here to do that for us right now. Hi, Nick.

[Nick Layton]

Hey, thanks for having me. This is a treat.

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, we're so glad to have you. There can be a lot of etiquette traps to fall into over the holidays if we're not careful. Why do you think these winter holidays can be such a tricky time for etiquette?

[Nick Layton]

Well, and we can fall into them even when we are careful. So yeah, yeah, I think this time of year is tricky because there's just a lot more etiquette events. I think, you know, there's more parties, there's more family time. And so I think it's a numbers game. It's just the percentages of etiquette crimes just goes up.

[Alison Stewart]

Listeners, we want to hear from you. What questions do you have about holiday etiquette? Are you hosting this year or visiting family? Any conflicts or dilemmas we can help you out with. Our Phone lines are open 212-433-WNYC 212-433-9692. Maybe you're worried about difficult conversations that come up political, social, religious beliefs, or you have maybe dietary preferences that you're nervous to express. Call us 2124-3396-9221-2433-9692. Or lastly, a lot of tourists visit New York. This time, etiquette alter should follow.

[Caller]

Even if you're unfamiliar with how the.

[Alison Stewart]

City moves and work.

[Caller]

We can take your etiquette questions.

[Alison Stewart]

Call us now. 2124-3396-9221-2433.

[Caller]

WNYC or reach us out on social media at OliveT WNYC. Let's talk about giving, because that's what a lot of people think about the holidays. How do you think about etiquette, gift getting? And what does it depend on your relationship with who you're giving the gift to?

[Nick Layton]

Oh, what a big topic. I think in general, I think gift giving is all about selecting something to please the recipient. I mean, that's kind of what we're trying to do. We want to do something nice for this person. And so what that is, you know, I mean, that runs the gamut from some cash to a doorman to, you know, Alexis with a red bow in the driveway, you know, and everything in between. But I think if that's the spirit of the gift, is that, oh, I want to do something that you might like. That's sort of the intention. I think we want to have for all gifts. And then as the receiver, I think we want to receive gifts with gratitude. Even if we don't like the thing, we want to at least appreciate the gesture. So I think that's also a good baseline.

[Caller]

Yeah. I want to say you're opening a.

[Alison Stewart]

Gift and it let's say it disappoints.

[Caller]

We'll say that nicely. What should you keep in mind when we're opening gifts this week?

[Nick Layton]

Well, that somebody took the time to go out and try to please you and they missed the mark, which happens. But, you know, they made an effort, they tried. And so that's what you want to be thankful for. And if you do get something you don't want, you do not want to make it that person's problem. So if it's a sweater in the wrong size, do not make it the gift giver's problem to exchange it. Like, just take responsibility. Don't bother the gift giver with this.

[Caller]

Yeah, let's talk a little bit about pretending when we get a gift. What is a good what are good words to use in Those situations.

[Nick Layton]

Well, I think we don't want to pretend. I mean, I think honesty is important etiquette. So we're not pretending that we actually are thankful that somebody took the time to try to select a gift for us, and we are genuinely happy and grateful for that thing. We do not have to actually like the thing, so we don't have to lie that we like the thing necessarily, but we can always show gratitude for the gesture. But, yeah, if you want some language, I mean, it's like, oh, thank you so much for this amazing fruitcake. Like, how delightful. So pleased that you were thinking of me.

[Caller]

It's just stressing that they were thinking of you. That's the key.

[Nick Layton]

Yeah, yeah.

[Caller]

With gifts and family holiday gatherings, there's also the issue of finances, and a lot of money is spent during the holidays. What are some common financial etiquette mistakes we can kind of try to avoid this season?

[Nick Layton]

Well, you should always set a budget for what you want to spend on the holidays, and you just stick to that budget, and that's what it is. So, you know, for doorman tips in New York City, just set whatever budget it is, and then that's fine. In my family, because we don't have, you know, small kids anymore. We don't do gifts at all. Highly recommend. Like, we just get together, have a lovely evening, but we take all of that off the table. Pro tip, really recommend not doing gifts with families. But, yeah, I. I think we just don't want to overspend. You know, that is always sort of the inclination. But it's important to remember that the best gifts are not the most expensive ones. You know, if you think back in your life at all, the great gifts that you've gotten, the most memorable, the most thoughtful, they were not the most expensive ones. And so it's thoughtfulness that matters, not the price.

[Caller]

Got a text that says, if you weren't expecting to. Oh, if someone gives you a gift and you weren't expecting one, are you obligated to give a gift back?

[Nick Layton]

So isn't that the worst situation? What you don't want to do? What you don't want to do is lie and be like, oh, I got you something. And then you run into your closet, then you find something to regift, and you're like, oh, here's some used body wash. So you don't want to do that. You can be honest in the moment. Be like, oh, my goodness. Thank you so much. I wasn't expecting this, but thank you. And then you can leave it There. And then if it feels like, oh, I really should reciprocate, then like separately you can make those arrangements. But yeah, if you don't have like a gifting relationship or you're caught off guard, you know, you're not necessarily obligated to reciprocate. Although it is nice to do. At the very least, you do need to express gratitude.

[Alison Stewart]

Here's another question. Do I have to get a present for my daughter's boyfriend if they've only been dating for about a month, but he's coming to our family Christmas celebration?

[Nick Layton]

I would, I would because, you know, it doesn't have to be extravagant, but you know, something a little something, a stocking. You know, I think it would be nice just because, you know, it gives him something to open, makes him feel like part of the family. And if you don't do it and they do get married, then you know your daughter's going to resent you forever for that rude Christmas. So just, just go for it.

[Alison Stewart]

Nick Layton is my guest. He's the co host of the podcast. Were you raised by wolves or taking your holiday etiquette and your calls? What questions do you have about holiday etiquette? Are you hosting this year or you're visiting family? Any concerns we can help you out with. What New York etiquette should all tourists follow if they're visiting the city during the holidays? We're talking etiquette all the way. Give us a call. 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. You can text to us or call in or you can reach out at all of it. Wnyc. Let's talk about being the host. Being a host can be great. It can also be extremely stressful. What are your three etiquette rules for being a good host?

[Nick Layton]

Well, I think the first rule is that you want to be relaxed. There is nothing worse than host that's stressed out. And so you should throw the type of party that will make you the most relaxed. And so I would much rather eat off of paper plates, on cushions, on the floor with a host that's having a nice time, then off of bone china with where somebody's completely stressed out the entire time. So I think you should have the type of party that you're comfortable with that you can also enjoy. That's like number one. The second thing is I think you want to think through when a guest arrives in your home what that flow looks like. Okay, I am at your door. Where does my coat go? Where would you like me to sit? Where will the beverage be? Are we having beverages? And just like, think through the flow, through your head. Um, and so if you do that, it will be a much better flow. I can't tell you how many parties I've been to where there was not that much thought. And you're like, what do we do now? And then I think the third thing is to just, you know, know that it's very rare to entertain in your home these days, especially in New York City, and so don't try to overdo it. The fact that you've invited people into your house at all right there, that's super gracious. And so guests are happy to be there. You know, we don't have to really worry about, you know, trying to overly impress even. You're already impressing me. The fact that you just sent me an invitation to your house.

[Caller]

I always say you need to be. You kind of have to produce the party a little bit.

[Nick Layton]

Yeah, you do. Yeah.

[Caller]

How do you feel about delegating at parties?

[Nick Layton]

I mean, I'm a bit of a control. I mean, shocking. I know. Very shocking. So, I don't know. I don't like to delegate because you'll do it wrong. But yeah, if you've got a good friend who you trust. Yeah. Oh, oh, would you please set up the drinks over here? Or, you know, or if you have a friend who's maybe a little shy, you could delegate some hosting duties. Like, oh, would you please, you know, chat with Lisa? You know, she's not engaging. You know, maybe bring her to the conversation, you know, so you can delegate those sort of tasks. For sure. Yeah.

[Caller]

Let's talk to Aparna from the East Village. Hi, Aparna. Thanks for calling us.

[Aparna]

Hi, thanks for taking the call.

[Caller]

What's your.

[Aparna]

I had a precedent that I'm trying to avoid. Even if it's late in the gift giving season of my sister who's really bus be a parent of small child, she seemed to delegate gift giving to her husband last year, and they ended up re gifting things I'd given to her in the past. And I was pretty hurt about it and just trying to figure out how to manage that if it happens again or just to have that uncomfortable conversation even if I waited to the last minute.

[Caller]

Okay, that's an incredible story. You were re gifted gifts. You. You'd already given them to her?

[Aparna]

Yeah, to her.

[Caller]

Oh, my goodness. What do you think, Nick?

[Nick Layton]

Yeah, I mean, that's obviously not how re gifting is supposed to work. I. I Guess the response is, oh, my goodness. We. You know, I. I do have such similar taste to my sister. Clearly. You know, we. We like the thing the same things. Yeah. The rule for re gifting is you are allowed to do it if you can get away with it. And the number one rule is you can never regift in the same circle. So if you got a gift from a work colleague, you cannot re gift to a different work colleague. If you got a gift from a family member, it can't be to a different family member member. So, yeah, they broke rule number one here. Whether or not to say something or not. Yeah, I mean, I think you have to decide if that's the hill you want to die on. I think if it keeps happening, I think it's actually kind of a funny story, and then I would actually just bank it as a great anecdote.

[Alison Stewart]

Good luck with that. This sex. This sex. This text says, what do you do when you give a gift? And the giftee says, I don't like this. That's a big etiquette challenge.

[Nick Layton]

I give you a gift, and you're like, no.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Is that what's happening?

[Nick Layton]

Well, okay, well, if that happens and you say, oh, I'm so sorry this didn't please you, I apologize. I did my best. And then you never give that person a gift ever again.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's talk to Alma, who is calling in from Brooklyn. Hi, Alma.

[Aparna]

Hi, Allison. Longtime listener, first time caller. So I was invited to a Christmas party, and I'm really excited to go, and I was asked to bring a bottle of wine, but I'm sober, so do I have to bring a bottle of wine?

[Nick Layton]

No, definitely not. So I think you can bring a beverage that you want to enjoy. I mean, it sounds like this is kind of a BYO party, and so they're kind of delegating the liquor procurement to all their guests. But, yeah, I think you are definitely, under no circumstances obligated to bring a bottle of wine. So just bring whatever you enjoy drinking, and then that's fine. And if the host were to say something, that would just be super rude if they questioned, like, oh, why didn't you bring wine? So I. I think just do whatever you want to do and don't worry about it.

[Alison Stewart]

Thanks for calling, Alma. Yeah. Let's talk about the importance of being a good guest. What does being a good guest look during the holidays look like?

[Nick Layton]

Yeah, I mean, I think we all have our part to play, you know, host and guest relationships, and it is a bit of a dance. So for guests, I think we want to participate, we want to be a good sport. Nobody wants a guest who's not engaging other guests, who's keeping to themselves, who doesn't want to be there, you know, So I think if you are going to go to a party, you got to be a good guest and you got to sort of show up ready to party or whatever the event is. I think we also want to be mindful of the time. So there is something about, you know, showing up on time. What on time means, quote, unquote, you know, is variable. You know, if it's a cocktail party, it's a dinner party. If it's New York, if it's, you know, Paris, you know, there's different ideas of on time. But whatever it is for your community and your event, it needs to be that. And then you gotta leave on time. Like, do not overstay your welcome. Do not make the host get into their pajamas and stand by the front door holding your coat. Like, gotta read the room, you know, when it's time to go. And then lastly, you gotta show gratitude. So, you know, the. You gotta send a thank you note, you gotta send a text, you gotta. The next day you got to indicate to your host, like, oh, I enjoyed that you took the time to entertain.

[Caller]

Let's talk to Kevin, who's calling in from Denver. Hi, Kevin, thanks for calling, all of it.

[Kevin]

Hey, very welcome. I don't have this problem anymore, unfortunately, but I'm sure there are folks out there that do. We were the first ones to like, you know, and get a. Get a, get a house and our family and extend a family and whatnot. And, you know, so like, we hosted it, you know, the first couple of times. And then, you know, my wife at the time, her brothers started getting married and then they bought their homes and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And like, the tradition stuck that we were always hosting and we were like, you know, trying to get out of it. So any advice without, you know, upsetting everybody?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

Any advice for, like, how somebody might get out of doing that if they've kind of like, you know, acquired the host mantle without really, you know, wanting it for, you know, without volunteers the entire rest of their life?

[Caller]

Yeah. Thank you so much for calling. Kevin. What do you think about that?

[Nick Layton]

Yeah, that's actually really common where you just sort of. You're the people that always host Christmas and that's what it is. Yeah. I mean, one idea of invitations is that if you don't send an invitation that there's no event so if you don't send Christmas invitations to people saying that there's a party, well, then there's no party. And why would you assume there would be? So you could just not invite people. And then that's sort of asked and answered. But in this type of family, you might have to make an announcement, which is like, we've so enjoyed hosting the past 40 years. We were hoping to take a break this year. Would anybody be interested in taking up the mantle? And that's on the group family text thread. And then, you know, see what people say. But, yeah, you're not obligated to do it year in and year out. You know, you can. You can bow out.

[Caller]

I want to ask you about food differences. It's such an important part of holiday gathering, but people have different dietary restrictions and preferences come into play, and we know it can get complicated. How should someone with you have a dietary preference go about avoicing that without offending or even upsetting the host?

[Nick Layton]

Well, I think if it's like a dinner party and you have a preference and it's not like an allergy, but it's sort of like, oh, I just don't care for shellf. I think the idea is we don't want to dictate the host's menu if we can avoid it. So just eat something else or just, like, you know, pass on something, or, you know, just be mindful of other things that are being served. And, you know, the general etiquette rule is we do not comment on what people are eating or not eating. So, you know, the host will not say, like, oh, you're not eating the shrimp gratin. And. And so we just sort of ignore that that's happening. That's the best. If you have a dietary sort of restriction or allergy, it's good to give your host a heads up, like, oh, you know, thank you so much for the dinner invitation. I do have a nut allergy. Will that be okay for the menu you've already planned? And then that gives your host an opportunity to say, like, oh, yes, we can accommodate that, or, oh, no, so sorry, it's all a nut festival. And so we'll unfortunately have to catch you a different time. So that would be a nice way to handle it.

[Caller]

What about children during the holidays? People have different relationships when it comes to kids. Do you correct other people's kids? Do you not? Do you let them run wild? Do you ignore it? What do you think?

[Nick Layton]

It is very tricky to parent other people's kids. So, yeah, I think that is real tricky territory in etiquette world. If you have sort of a parental role and these are, you know, children, these are not like, you know, teenagers or, you know, young adults. If you are a godparent or a close family friend or you're the neighbor and you're in sort of a moral guidance role, then yes, you are allowed to sort of guide some etiquette here. Especially if it's your. It's in your house and you're hosting. You know, you could say something along the lines of like in this house we put our napkins in our lap, you know, to other people's small children. Carefully, you know, it's still dicey but like there is a world in which that could happen, but other than that. Yeah, you just have to tough it out and that's what it is. You know, etiquette does not guarantee you pleasantness all the time. Etiquette is just a way to navigate the world and endure sometimes. So yeah, if you are, you know, at a place with kids running around and you don't like that, well, then it's just one evening and you'll be fine.

[Alison Stewart]

This text says my family is very non committal and anti conflict and no one wants to make definitive plans about the holidays. Meeting times, gift exchanges, guidelines. How can I step up and take charge, essentially pick up the mantle for my grandma who traditionally ran Christmas and polite way that doesn't make everyone hate me. That's Allan from oh dear.

[Nick Layton]

Well, it seems like if you just were to say, hey, Christmas is going to be at 3pm My house, here's the address, that, that could be a way to handle it. Yeah, and I don't. It doesn't like anybody to be get offended by that.

[Alison Stewart]

Go for it, Allan. Tell us how it turns out. My guest is Nick Layton, co host of the podcast where you raised by wolves. Do you have questions about the holiday are you hosting this year? What New York etiquette should all tourists follow when they visit the city during the holidays? Call or text us 212-433-WNYC 212-433-9692. After the break, we'll talk tourists.

[Caller]

WNYC Studios is supported by GiveWell. When you make a big purchase, say a car or a new mattress, how do you make sure that you're making the right choice? GiveWell provides an independent resource for a different kind of purchase, a donation. Over 100,000 donors have used GiveWell to donate. First time using GiveWell. When you go to givewell.org and pick podcast and enter WNYC at checkout. You can have your donation matched up to $100 before the end of the year or as long as matching funds.

[Nick Layton]

Last this week on the New Yorker Radio Hour, actor Willem Dafoe on a horror story for Christmas. Robert Eggers new version of Nosferatu. We've really gotten away from the scary vampire. We've come full circle and gotten to.

[Alison Stewart]

The character in Twilight, kind of a sympathetic, sweet vampire. He wanted him to be scary again.

[Nick Layton]

Willem Dafoe joins us next time on the New Yorker Radio Hour from WNYC Studios. Listen. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Alison Stewart]

You are listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is Nick Layton. He's the co host of the podcast. Were you raised by wolves? We're here to talk holiday etiquette and take your calls. A lot of people travel over the holidays. They fly or they drive. It adds so much stress sometimes people are not regular travelers. What are tips you would keep in mind about travel etiquette that's especially important during the busy holiday season?

[Nick Layton]

Nick? Oh, I know. I'm actually on the west coast right now, home for the holidays. So I got to experience the airport magic over the weekend.

[Alison Stewart]

You can call it that.

[Nick Layton]

Yeah, I everything is a content opportunity now for the podcast. Yeah. I think what's interesting about air travel is that it inherently brings people together from different etiquette backgrounds because all etiquette is local. The rules in Manhattan are different than Manhattan, Kansas. You know, they're just different etiquette rules. And a airplane brings people together from all these different backgrounds. And we all have slightly different etiquette playbooks about what personal space means, what foods are appropriate to eat in public, what we do with our shoes. And then you add to that people who are sleep deprived, cranky, stressed out, hungry. It's just a recipe for etiquette disaster up there. So I think the most important etiquette reminder is just you gotta just be patient, have a good sense of humor, know that this is a temporary situation you will endure and that it is inherently unpleasant. And so I think if we just come at it with that attitude, it will actually make it easier to sort of endure it. But it is unpleasant. It's just the nature of the beast these days. Gone are the days of Chateaubriand on Pan Am.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's talk to Hallie from Queens. Hi, Hallie. Thank you for all of it.

[Aparna]

Hi, thanks so much for taking my call. My suggestion is just for the tourists of New York. So excited that you're here. But on the escalators, please stand to the right and walk to the left.

[Alison Stewart]

That is the best advice all the time. Thanks, Hallie. Let's talk to Dan from Washington Heights. Hi, Dan.

[Kevin]

Hey, there. So my comment is, yeah, we get that the tourists are here. We're happy to have you, but it's a real city, so people are working on living here. I think big thing is keep moving, so you need to stay out of the way. So if you're using the sidewalks, those are for moving, not socializing or gathering. We get that you're lost, but please don't consult your phone. In the center of the sidewalk, don't congregate around any points of aggress like stairs, doors, hallways. Go all the way into the subway car. Please take your backpack off. We get that you have to ask the bus driver questions, but please stand to the side as you ask them. So people can also get on the bus. Things like that.

[Alison Stewart]

All good advice. Thanks, Dan. Yeah, let's talk about it, Nick. There's a lot of ways that this city has interesting rhythms, and they're. They're not like anywhere else.

[Nick Layton]

Yeah, the last caller touched on it, which is, just because you're on vacation doesn't mean everybody else's, and that is very true in New York City. And. And also, there will always be somebody behind you who wants to get past you. I think that's an important thing to remember in New York City. There's just always gonna be somebody who wants to walk faster than you are or get somewhere faster than you want to get. And you just have to always be mindful of what is happening behind you on the escalator, on that narrow West Village sidewalk, because someone is going to want to pass. And it is maddening when you do have people, like, blocking your way and also super unsafe. Who are these people stopping at the top of an escalator? Like, how insane. So, yeah, that's. That's something that tourists should remember. And also, you know that all etiquette is local. And so if you are coming to New York, you do have to realize, like, oh, we do it a little different here. And we're not a rude. We're not rude about it. We're just sort of in a hurry. And you were in the way, slowing us down.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah.

[Caller]

You recently wrote an article for Gothamist with an interesting etiquette angle for those.

[Alison Stewart]

Of us who are New Yorkers but.

[Caller]

Are leaving the city to visit family. And those family members have a certain.

[Alison Stewart]

Image of New York and call it.

[Caller]

A, you know, a trash city. What do you think are some ways to handle negative comments about New Yorkers?

[Nick Layton]

Yeah, I mean, well, I think for us New Yorkers, we know that we don't actually really care what other people think about New York. So at the end of the day, think whatever you want to think. Don't come. It's fine. Don't come. Like, we're good with that. And also, the only people that are allowed to complain about New York are us. We could complain about the subway and the trash, but, like, we don't want to have you do it. So I think when we do go home for the holidays and people are like, oh, I could never live there, or, oh, your apartment is how small? Or you don't have a washer dryer. Yeah, yeah. You just say, yeah, we don't. Yeah, New York, it's horrible. Don't come. We know it's great, but, yeah, you got to pick your battles. Do you really want to defend the city of New York to people who don't get it? I'm not really interested in that.

[Caller]

This one says, hi, wnyc. My New York City tourist etiquette suggestion is if you're visiting the city, try to visit some local stores in smaller neighborhoods. That's good advice. New Yorkers, we are actually really nice. We just, you know, we got to get to a place in a hurry. We'll give you directions. How can we be more cordial to, oh, good tourists?

[Nick Layton]

Well, on the first point, I recently saw some article where somebody reviewed New York City, and they're like, it wasn't so great. And you looked at where they went and they stayed in a two block radius around Times Square. And it's sort of like, okay, yeah, of course. Yeah, you did have a great time. Yeah. How can we be more cordial? Yeah. Whenever I'm a little frustrated with tourists, my internal monologue is always, thank you for your tax dollars. New York City is not a cheap place to visit as a tourist. I mean, have you seen hotel prices? So thank you for your tax dollars. Thank you for supporting our local economy. And, yeah, know that, you know, these people don't realize that when they stop us on the street and they're like, hello, how are you? Can I ask you a question? Do you know which way is 8th Avenue? Like, we know that that's maddening and that we don't want people asking us directions in that way. We just want you to get to the point. But they don't know that, you know, these are people that have long conversations with cashiers in their small towns at the grocery store. These are people who are paying with personal checks, you know, so it's just a different rhythm for these people. We just have to have empathy for them that, you know, it's hard to get into the New York City rhythm. You know, it takes a lot of us a long time to get into it. So we can't expect that from everybody on day one.

[Caller]

Let's talk to Holly calling in from Brooklyn. Hi, Holly. Holly, are you there?

[Nick Layton]

Hi.

[Caller]

Hi. Yeah. What's your question?

[Nick Layton]

My question is, during a celebration, like a dinner, family dinner celebration, is it. And you have guests, like if you have guests, is it okay to play music?

[Alison Stewart]

Okay.

[Nick Layton]

On my side, I thought, I think it's better to eat and talk altogether with your guests. But I have young children, they tend to blast music. They think it's the right way to do it. Is it okay?

[Caller]

What do you think?

[Nick Layton]

Yeah, I think it's totally fine as long as it's appropriate. I mean, I don't think I necessarily want to have a marching band live in your living room as we're trying to have dinner. But if it doesn't interfere with the conversation, I, I think it's very nice. I mean, I think music kind of sets the mood and so I think it's a nice sort of detail. And it's also a way that a, a host can show their personality a little bit. And it's also a way a host can sort of set the tone for the type of event that they're having. So, you know, music can play a big role in that. So, yeah, I think it's perfectly fine as long as people don't need to shout over it.

[Alison Stewart]

We're going to move into New Year's Eve and this text is great. It's a good question. When invited to a large cocktail party that has a bartender, do I bring a bottle of wine? Never want to show up empty handed but feel funny bringing wine when curated cases are being poured. My name is being withheld because everyone I know listens to you and they will think and they will be at this party.

[Nick Layton]

Wow. Well, the idea of bringing a gift for your host, that gift is never intended to be used at that event. It's always a gift that the host can do with as they please when they want to do it. So you should never go to a dinner party with a bottle of wine expecting that wine to be served. So whatever you bring to this party, fine. Just know that it's not going to be served at that event necessarily. Like, it's entirely up to the hosts what they do with it. And the best host gifts are the ones that are not needed. You know, those are the things like, oh, here's some muffins for the morning, or here's a book that I know you might like, or here are the tea towels or whatever it is. So, yeah, no, no need to bring a bottle of wine to an event that has a lot of wine. Or you could, but just know it's not going to be used. Make sure that there's a card on it because it's going to get tossed to the side. So you want to have your host be able to, you know, know that it was from you. And. And also, it is not necessary to actually bring things to people's houses. The most important thing is to reciprocate the invitation. So, you know, if you are a guest in someone's home, it's nicer instead of bringing a bottle of wine to invite them to your home.

[Caller]

How do you feel about thank you.

[Alison Stewart]

Note, thank you notes?

[Nick Layton]

Very good about them. I feel great. Yes, you should. You should always acknowledge gratitude. And there's a lot of different ways you can do that. And I thank you note is not always the required method. You know, you are allowed to give a verbal thank you. You are allowed to send a text message if you're a busy parent with young kids and you want to, like, acknowledge nice Christmas presents to the grandparents. Yeah, you could definitely have your kids send cute videos and text those like, that's fine. The point is, as a gift giver, I want to know that you got the thing I sent you and that you liked it. And so however you want to communicate that back to me is totally fine. But you got to do that.

[Alison Stewart]

We have a call from a friend of the show. Thelma, are you there?

[Aparna]

I am. Hello, Allison. Happy holidays.

[Caller]

Thank you very much.

[Alison Stewart]

Thelma golden from the Harlem Museum. Studio Museum. What's your question?

[Aparna]

Yes, Well, I love this segment and, you know, thanks to your guests for all these ideas, but to the point about New Yorkers and tourists at this time of the year. It really made me think of my father, who is no longer with us, Artie golden, who, like most New Yorkers, we all have that experience, right? You're trying to get somewhere midtown, and there they are enjoying New York. And he would always stop, no matter how busy we were or in a rush, and offered to take a picture for them. And he would say it's because as New Yorkers we get this all the time. But this would be their moment in their memory. And he always wanted them to have not only a wonderful memory of New York City, but of a New Yorker. So I do that now. I do. When I see tourists and they're trying to get the photo, I'll just stop and say, can I take that photo for you? And generally it often opens a conversation about why they're here, their first time, what they might be thinking of doing. And I just thought perhaps that was a way to think about how we all might think about the visitors to our city.

[Alison Stewart]

Love that.

[Caller]

It is so gracious and happy holidays, Thelma.

[Aparna]

Happy holidays to you, Nick.

[Alison Stewart]

Do you have any parting thoughts for us?

[Nick Layton]

Yeah. Oh, I think that idea of offering to take a photo is actually quite lovely. I think I would like to try that to see how that feels. I mean, as somebody who's been in New York for a long time, that I think will feel a little awkward, but I want to give that a go because it is really a lovely gesture and I really actually kind of love, you know, what that does and says. So I'm going to try that. But parting thoughts is just with all etiquette, it's just about remembering that other people exist. At the end of the day, that's what etiquette is all about. So I think if we just can remember other people exist, we will be on the path to etiquette nirvana.

[Caller]

Nick Layton is the co host of the podcast were you raised by wolves? Thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it.

[Nick Layton]

This was so fun. Thanks so much. I'm Ira Flato, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, our team has been reporting high quality news about science, technology and medicine. News you won't get anywhere else. And now that political news is 24 7, our audience is turning to us to know about the really important stuff in their lives. Cancer, climate change, genetic engineering, childhood diseases. Our sponsors know the value of science and health news. For more sponsorship information, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.