Podcast Summary: All Of It – How to Combat Seasonal Affective Disorder

Host: Alison Stewart (WNYC)
Guest: Dr. Paul Desan, Psychiatrist and Associate Professor, Yale School of Medicine
Date: February 17, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode of "All Of It" delves into the causes, symptoms, and coping mechanisms related to Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD), a form of depression that strikes during the darker, colder months. Host Alison Stewart speaks with Dr. Paul Desan to explore how SAD manifests, who is most at risk, and most importantly, practical ways to manage and treat the disorder—with an emphasis on light therapy, lifestyle changes, and community input from listeners.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. What Is Seasonal Affective Disorder?

[01:23] – [02:15]

• Dr. Desan defines SAD as a severe downturn in mood and energy during winter, amounting to an episode of clinical depression for 3–4% of people in northern latitudes.
• “If you hand out questionnaires, 90% of people feel worse in the winter. But for some people, they feel so much worse, it amounts to what psychiatrists would call an episode of clinical depression.” – Dr. Desan [01:31]
• SAD is recognized as a significant public health issue.

2. How SAD Differs from Other Depression

[02:19] – [03:12]

• SAD often involves oversleeping, increased appetite (especially for carbs and comfort foods), and “overwhelming lethargy and fatigue.”
  • “In depression, usually people complain of insomnia. In winter depression, people often report sleeping earlier in the evening, oversleeping…” – Dr. Desan [02:28]
• Traditional depression often features insomnia and weight loss.

3. Who Is Most at Risk?

[03:20] – [05:25]

• Geography: Risk increases with distance from the equator; higher in Maine, Canada, and Northern Europe.
  • “The further you are from the equator, the more likely you are to have a seasonal effect. It’s the light-dark cycle, we think, that controls how human mood reacts in the winter.” – Dr. Desan [03:49]
• Gender: Women are three times more likely than men to experience SAD, particularly those with premenstrual mood changes.
  • “For some reason that we don’t understand, women seem to be more susceptible.” – Dr. Desan [04:28]
• There may be genetic and cultural adaptations, but research is lacking.

4. Variability and Recurrence of SAD

[05:37] – [06:30]

• While SAD symptoms are generally consistent year-to-year, situational factors (e.g., more time outdoors) can mitigate symptoms.

5. Summer SAD

[07:17] – [07:56]

• Rare but recognized; some people experience depressive symptoms in spring/summer rather than winter. Encouraged to seek psychiatric care.

6. Listener Strategies and Experiences

[08:04] – [09:22]; [14:30] – [15:36]

• Callers share tips:
  • Morning sunlight and dogs: “The best thing I can recommend is natural daylight as soon as you when it’s dawn... And also do it again in the evening at dusk. It really sets the circadian rhythms.” – Amy, caller [08:17]
  • Blackout blinds for summer SAD; socializing during daylight hours.
• Exercise, social connection, and scheduled activities (like early morning exercise classes) help many listeners.
  • “Until meds I would sleep or hibernate for 15 hours... Early AM exercise where I have to show up. Mine is Pure Bar.” – Margaret, caller [15:36]

7. Light Therapy: The Research and Practice

[09:33] – [12:10]; [17:14] – [18:10]

• How it works:
  • Half an hour of 10,000 lux light, preferably before 8 am, can “fix the vast majority” of winter SAD cases.
    • “The consensus of experts shows that a half an hour of bright light, 10,000 lux, first thing in the morning… fixes the vast majority of people with seasonal affective disorder.” – Dr. Desan [10:42]
• Device selection:
  • Proper devices should be large and bright enough for comfortable use at arm’s length.
  • Small, dim light boxes are less effective; Yale’s website lists tested and recommended devices.
• Timing:
  • Morning use most beneficial. Evening light can interfere with sleep.

8. Other Coping Mechanisms

• Exercise: Important for resetting the body and mood; regular movement is encouraged.
  • “The caller has emphasized not giving in to staying in bed all day, but getting up and especially getting up early and getting out and being active.” – Dr. Desan [16:50]
• Socialization: Depression leads to withdrawal; staying socially engaged counteracts this.
  • “So absolutely. One approach to depression is to make sure you don’t stay in bed. You get up and you go out.” – Dr. Desan [13:31]
• Routine: Maintaining a consistent sleep schedule helps regulate circadian rhythms.

9. Common Questions from Listeners

Vitamin D and K
[18:25] – [19:14]

• Supplementing vitamin D is only useful if deficient; clinical studies show vitamin D alone does not treat SAD.
  • “We think that seasonal affective disorder for most people is not related to vitamin D... I would push people more towards looking into light as an approach…” – Dr. Desan [18:43]

Shift Work [14:49] – [15:36]

• Those with irregular hours may struggle more; light therapy can help shift circadian rhythms but may require personalized approaches.

Role of Medications [16:07] – [16:57]

• Medications like Wellbutrin are effective for some, especially if light therapy or lifestyle changes are not sufficient.

Alcohol and Caffeine
[19:52] – [20:24]

• Both can worsen symptoms or mask underlying issues.
  • “Some people when they feel depressed, they drink more and that causes them to feel yet more depressed and pull away from yet more activities.” – Dr. Desan [19:54]
  • “You’re much better off treating the underlying condition with light than trying to take a stimulant that will temporarily wake you up.” – Dr. Desan [20:24]

SAD and ADHD
[21:07] – [21:40]

• People with ADHD and SAD may find traditional therapies less effective, but activity and access to natural light remain beneficial.

Role of Partners/Spouses
[23:47] – [24:16]

• Encourage loved ones to seek treatment and try different coping strategies.
  • “Don’t say it’s normal to feel worse in the winter. Say I’m going to try all of these different things... and get out of it, deal with it.” – Dr. Desan [23:57]

Notable Quotes

• “The overwhelming symptom that is really common in winter depression is lethargy and fatigue, a loss of energy.” – Dr. Desan [02:58]
• “If you don’t like sitting in front of a light, well, maybe I will push you to get up and enjoy natural light. Being active early in the morning...” – Dr. Desan [21:42]
• “You can have the greatest therapy in the world, but if it doesn’t fit into somebody’s lifestyle, it’s not going to work.” – Dr. Desan [21:40]

Important Timestamps

• 01:23 – What is Seasonal Affective Disorder?
• 02:19 – Difference between SAD and other depression
• 03:20 – Who is most at risk?
• 09:33 – Introduction to light therapy
• 10:42 – How and when to use light therapy effectively
• 16:07 – Exercise and antidepressant medications
• 17:14 – How to choose the right light therapy device
• 18:25 – Vitamin D and SAD
• 19:52 – Alcohol and caffeine’s impact
• 21:07 – SAD & ADHD interaction
• 22:41 – Dr. Desan’s “top three” coping suggestions
• 23:47 – The role of a spouse/partner in supporting someone with SAD

Practical Takeaways

• Bright light therapy (10,000 lux for 30 minutes before 8 am) is the most research-backed treatment for winter SAD.
• Natural sunlight and outdoor activity—especially early in the morning—can serve as an alternative or complement to light devices.
• Exercise, social connections, and establishing a routine are vital to maintaining mental health during winter.
• Medication (notably Wellbutrin) can be considered if non-pharmaceutical treatments don’t suffice.
• Alcohol and excessive caffeine use can worsen depressive symptoms; treat the cause, not the symptoms.
• Support from friends, family, and partners enhances recovery and coping.

This episode offers practical, nuanced, and research-backed insight into seasonal depression with equal focus on science and real-world experience—making it a valuable listen for anyone affected by the winter blues or seeking to support someone who is.