← All Of It with Alison Stewart
All Of It with Alison Stewart
How To Get Better at Taking Pictures
00:28:30
Jody Quon, New York Magazine creative director, and Christopher Bonanos, city editor, discuss their "How to Take a Photo" newsletter.
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- [00:08]
Alison Stewart
This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. I wanted to give you a heads up on something very exciting happening on tomorrow's show. You may know Rachel Price as the singer from Lake Street Dive. She's also part of a duo called Rachel and Vilre. They just put out their third album. It's titled west of Broadway and it takes inspiration from early 20th century jazz and Broadway show tunes. Rachel and Vilre will be here in studio to perform live tomorrow. That's in the future. Now let's get this hour started with some tips on how to take better photos. If you go on Instagram to the Brooklyn Museum account, there's a bunch of people in a reel titled Pose with a piece of Art. For example, a dad and his daughter are in front of the huge cause statue making that same pose. And then at the Met, there's a photo of a woman who made a black velvet gown to match the frock in John Singer Sargent's Madame X. Getting a good photo has never been so easy, but getting a great photo takes a little more skill. There's lighting, composition, the right pose, subject, maybe even a little luck, too. For the latest edition of its Night School newsletter series, New York Magazine is teaching you the basics of how to take a great photo. This could mean the family holiday card or just better pictures of your food to make all your Instagram followers hungry. You know, the camera eats first. The newsletter is organized by Jody Kwan, New York magazine's creative director. Welcome, by the way, as well as city editor Christopher Bonanno, author of two books about photography, Instant the Story of Polaroid and Flash the Making of Ouija, the Famous. Nice to see you, Chris.
- [01:50]
Christopher Bonanno
Yes, good to be here.
- [01:51]
Alison Stewart
All right, so Jojo, you are the creative director of New York Mag. Chris calls you the five star general of photography. He wrote that in the newsletter. What does it take for a photo to make it into the magazine?
- [02:06]
Jody Kwan
Well, many things. We like for our pictures to have intent, strong intent. There has to be, you know.
- [02:17]
Listener
A.
- [02:17]
Jody Kwan
Lot of pictures need to be in focus. What I generally say with portraiture is that we like eye contact and really we want the picture to reveal the soul of the person of the subject. And that's the most important. You know, it's like, can the photographer connect to the subject? Are they getting past the veneer of what one would normally see? So for instance, when, you know, we're publishing a lot of pictures in the magazine, we do portraiture, we do documentary which fly on the wall photography, what both of those genres, which are very different, have in common. What we're looking for is that there's authenticity and sincerity. So that's really what we're after.
- [03:01]
Alison Stewart
Chris, you're the scholar at New York Magazine. You run New York Mag. Instagram account. Thank you. What do you think, first of all, what do you think photography has meant to the magazine?
- [03:11]
Christopher Bonanno
Oh, gosh. Well, from the beginning, we. We were a visual magazine as much as a textual one. In the very earliest days, the magazine leaned very heavily on illustration. You know, Milton Glaser was our founding design director. Wonderful, wonderful illustrator as well as a designer. So he would often paint the COVID or draw the COVID But really, from the earliest issues, there were interesting uses of photography. There's a cover of ours from 1969, for example. The COVID story is about John Lindsay, who was mayor at the time and running for reelection. And he, as you know, John Lindsay was 6 foot 5 and had a good looking. Looked like a movie star, looked like a president, they used to say. Right. And he came on the heels of LaGuardia and O'Dwyer and Wagner and a bunch of sort of like. Well, let's just say a bunch of really short guys of varying effectiveness. But some of them were quite effective as mayors, especially LaGuardia, who was all of five too, you know, and Lindsey at the time was not doing as well. And so the COVID photo is a portrait of him looking grand in the park or something with his head cut off. He's cut off at the nose. And the headline is, is Lindsay Too Tall to be May? And the deployment of photography in an interesting way that helps tell the story beautifully is it's right there in the core DNA of New York magazine.
- [04:30]
Alison Stewart
One of the things I love in the magazine, Jody, is the Lookbook. The Lookbook is great. It's been going on for 20 years now. Would you tell us what the original idea of it was and sort of the essence of the Lookbook?
- [04:42]
Jody Kwan
Yes. Well, it's interesting. The Lookbook actually predates New York Magazine. It was something that Adam Moss and I had come up with when we were together at the New York Times Magazine. And what it was was that it would be the first time that we would take work with a photographer and bring a white, seamless, a white backdrop on the streets of New York and photograph interesting New Yorkers as they were walking by. We would grab them, put them onto the seamless. And the whole idea of it was everybody thinks about what they put on, regardless of whether they are fashionable, classically fashionable or not. Everybody puts thought into what they wear every morning. So what we wanted to do was to do a study of why people wear what they wear. Why do they make those decisions? And so that was an issue that we did back at the New York Times Magazine, which was something like what clothing says about you. And then when we got to New York, when we were redesigning the magazine, we thought it would make a great centerfold in the book as far as the pacing. We'd have the feature stories and then we would get to this great double page spread of a New Yorker on a white seamless, and we get to interview them about what they're wearing and what that clothing says about them.
- [06:04]
Alison Stewart
We've got a listener call out before I could even do the call out. Let me give the call out first. It's listeners, do you have any questions about how to improve your photography? Maybe you want to get better at taking selfies or food or some other object. Our number is 2124-3396-9212-4433 wnyc. Or maybe you consider yourself a pretty good photographer, either with your camera or with your smartphone. What do you like to take pictures of? 2124-3396-9221-2433-969692.
- [06:36]
Listener
Let's talk to Bill from Manhattan.
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Alison Stewart
Hi Bill, thank you for making the.
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Listener
Time to call all of it.
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Bill
Yes, hello.
- [06:43]
Listener
Hello.
- [06:43]
Bill
My suggestion is to get up early and take advantage of the light. That happens early in the day. And it kind of has a dual purpose because if you are motivated to get out and see things early in the day, you're going to see a lot of different things and the light will change, it'll be diffuse, and it'll be a lot of fun to see the changes as you photograph things.
- [07:06]
Listener
Bill, thank you for the tip. What do you think about that?
- [07:08]
Jody Kwan
Jody? I think that's a wonderful tip. I think time of day is a huge consideration in taking pictures. The light, the morning light is so beautiful. You'll have, you know, noon is a time of day you want to absolutely avoid. And then twilight is classically a really equally beautiful time to take pictures.
- [07:30]
Listener
Oh, the golden hour.
- [07:31]
Jody Kwan
The golden hour.
- [07:33]
Alison Stewart
The first installment of this newsletter, Chris.
- [07:35]
Listener
Is about the secrets to a great portrait. What do you think is the most important part of a portrait when you're looking at it?
- [07:43]
Christopher Bonanno
Well, Jody talked about sort of getting beyond the surface, you know, getting into the eyes of somebody and into the soul of someone beyond. But there are also mechanical means, you know, that practical Bits of advice that we tried to get into this newsletter. We spoke, the two of us spoke with Frank Elduino, who shoots the Lookbook now splendidly. And he had. He had a ton of good practical advice, as well as the sort of conceptual business of, you know, setting people at ease. For example, he talked about how he will. He will say to people who don't know how to pose, because that's often the issue with people who don't get photographed in a professional setting much. They get in front of the camera and they tighten up or they stiffen up, but they don't know how to stand. And he says to them, imagine you're in line at the supermarket, just waiting for the checkout, just you have a few minutes to kill. And he said, something happens. And a lot of the time they just drop into place, their shoulders fall, they relax in a certain way as if they're bored. And I never would have thought of this in a million years.
- [08:52]
Listener
You're nodding, Jodi.
- [08:54]
Jody Kwan
Yes. And I'll also add to that one of the things that we try and encourage or one of the things that our photographers say to subjects all the time is we don't like teethy pictures.
- [09:06]
Listener
Teeth, as in teeth, teeth.
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Jody Kwan
Toothy. We like to say it's not a Pepsodent commercial. So we generally like people to keep their mout closed, and we like the friendliness to come from their eyes. So that's important as well.
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Christopher Bonanno
You know, it's a thing. People don't realize it. And then we say it. And then you go through an issue of New York magazine and you realize, except once in a while, obviously, there will be a super toothy portrait where it's the point, you know, if somebody's making a big silly. If that's the gesture they're going for, but otherwise, no teeth.
- [09:38]
Listener
It's interesting. You said their eyes. Is that the most important part of a portrait?
- [09:42]
Jody Kwan
Connection with the eyes is very important. I mean, there are all kinds of portraiture that doesn't rest on eye contact. It depends on what you're after. But if you really want to meet the person and get an emotional contact with the person, then really the eyes are super, super important.
- [09:58]
Listener
I'm speaking with New York Magazine creative director Jody Kwan and city editor Chris Bonannos. They're writing the latest edition of the magazine's Night School newsletter focused on photography. The series is called how to Take a Photo. We're also hearing for you. Do you have any questions about how to improve your photography? Or maybe you consider yourself A pretty good photographer. And you'd like to tell us what you like to take pictures of? Do you have any advice on taking better pictures? Call us now at 433-WNYC. That's 212-433-WNYC or 212-433-9692. Philip is calling us from Princeton, New Jersey. Hi, Philip, thanks for taking the time to call all of it.
- [10:41]
Bill
Hi, thank you for having me. I really appreciate the show.
- [10:45]
Listener
Tell us what you like.
- [10:47]
Bill
Oh, I love to take pictures of everything. I call myself. I don't have a specific, specific genre. I love portraiture. I love landscape. I love animals. I like still life, whatever interests my eye. And I frame my pictures for my home. You know, people love them. I've been to South Africa, I've been to Lisbon, I've been to Ghana, I've been to Panama. So all these different influences are in my photography. I'm also teaching photography to low to moderate income children in the Princeton area with my Nikon Z6 and a Nikon Z9 so that they learn how to use the big end cameras and take their own pictures one day.
- [11:33]
Listener
That's wonderful. Thank you so much for calling, Philip. We really appreciate it. Let's talk to Wathi from Connecticut. Hi, thanks for calling all of it.
- [11:43]
Swati
Hi, thank you.
- [11:45]
Listener
You're on the air.
- [11:49]
Swati
So I'm Swati and I am second runner up of Mrs. Universe USA. And recently through my patent journey, I started learning a little bit more about photography. Always been a part of, you know, catching something really cool, really nice. And I'm a big nature photographer so I try to capture memories and moments of what nature is trying to speak to us. But through the pageant journey, I started doing a little bit more of portrait photography and trying to capture the same stories through people's expressions and emotions, through different type of fashion and what we wear and what we emote through our, you know, face and eyes and our body. So I think that combination is kind of giving me, you know what, we're.
- [12:38]
Listener
Losing you a little bit. We appreciate what you're saying. That was an interesting discussion. I thought she was just going to talk about landscape, but she talked about photographing the pageant she was in. That must be an incredible place to find interesting things.
- [12:53]
Jody Kwan
Yes, especially if you are fly on the wall and doing it through a documentary approach. There's so many nuggets in there to capture.
- [13:01]
Christopher Bonanno
You know, it speaks to the fact that, you know, when I was young, if you were learning to take pictures, you shot film 35 millimeter film, probably. And it was expensive and slow. And if you shot a roll with all the settings wrong on the camera, it came back black or white or useless and all that's erased. Now the barrier to pretty decent photos at a technical level is almost gone. The camera on your phone, which is the size of a grain of rice, is better than almost everybody had access to when I was a kid. And what it means is your ability to get to the point where you're thinking about the picture instead of thinking about the gear is so much faster. You know, you can be an 8 year old kid and take pretty good pictures in terms of lighting, exposure, aperture and then start to get to the stuff that requires a little more than that. And you can take your first 10,000 pictures when you're learning to be good by the time you're 15. You know, it's my theory that the next generation of photographers is going to be so much bigger and therefore that like unexpected talent will sort of erupt out of it in interesting and fascinating ways. Because people have been taking pictures their whole lives and, and so many more of them. Right? Because the most basic thing when you're learning is to take a lot of pictures.
- [14:26]
Alison Stewart
We've got a question here. This is for you, Jody. What is New York magazine's approach to photo retouching and filters?
- [14:35]
Jody Kwan
So it depends. So we have a fairly liberal policy when it comes to retouching portraiture. For instance, we will remove anything that gets in the way of looking at a standard portrait. So if there's a pimple or a blemish, we'll get rid of that. We won't really change anything that will change the character of a person's face or a person's self. When it comes to, you know, special effects, we do that all the time. You know, for instance, if we're doing a story on something that we, you know, we're constantly doing photo research and we will find an existing photograph and we may want it tint it red because it will feel it will be an interesting effect for the tone of the piece or we'll want to remove it from its context and put it in the brand new context and create a surreal effect. So it just. So we'll take license with it when it makes sense and then we'll respect the boundaries when needed.
- [15:47]
Christopher Bonanno
I'll add that sometimes, from what I see, the manufactured, heavily manipulated photo is the point and we are explicit about it. I'm thinking here, for example, of that killer cover image you made. What was it, two Decembers ago, the one of 70 celebrities crossing the same intersection at once, you may remember.
- [16:06]
Alison Stewart
Oh, that was great.
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Christopher Bonanno
And that's obviously they didn't all show up at the same moment across the street. That is a put together composite. And we don't, you know, we're not pretending that that was made in one frame in a camera because it would be literally impossible to do. Or sometimes there'll be a similar picture by that same photographer that'll be, you know, the same person 20 times. You can't do it in life. Yeah, it's a manufactured, heightened reality and obviously that takes some technical erasmitas.
- [16:37]
Alison Stewart
You look like that took a lot out of you.
- [16:39]
Jody Kwan
No, not at all. Not at all. No, not at all. This, you know, we live for opportunities like that. We live for those challenges. We have many, many, many projects at that scale.
- [16:52]
Christopher Bonanno
You have never seen anyone as invigorated as Jodie when she's making a picture like that. It is, it's spectacular to watch.
- [17:01]
Alison Stewart
What makes, why was that invigorating to you? All those celebrities?
- [17:06]
Jody Kwan
72 New Yorkers to be exact. You know, it was just, it was an idea that we had on the heels of COVID and wanted, you know, New Yorkers were going back to work, the streets were filling up again and it was the whole idea of people bumping into each other again. You know, New York is very unique in that way where, you know, there's just so much pedestrian traffic all over. And so it was just really thrilling to be able to get these 72 celebrities all together, you know, on the Monday following Thanksgiving, all for this great picture. And everybody basically, I think, you know, normally if you're going to get 72 New Yorkers, you would probably famous New Yorkers, you would need to call at least 150 in order to get that many. But I think in this case virtually everyone that we called showed up, arrived that day because everybody wanted to be a part of that. So it was a feel good moment that was the perfect, you know, it was the perfect moment to tap into.
- [18:12]
Listener
That they were also New York celebrities, which is kind of a special.
- [18:16]
Jody Kwan
Yeah, I mean Spike Lee was flying that morning at, he had a flight leaving out of LaGuardia at 9:30 and he made it a point to show up on set at 6:30 that morning so that he, he was the first person that walked through that intersection for us because he had to be a part of it. And so that was really touching.
- [18:39]
Listener
I'm speaking with New York Magazine creative director Jody Kwan and city editor Chris Bonannos. They're writing the latest edition of the.
- [18:45]
Alison Stewart
Magazine'S night school newsletter. It's focused on photography.
- [18:49]
Listener
The series is called how to Take a Photo. We'll have more after a quick break. This is all of it.
- [19:05]
Alison Stewart
You're listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. With me in studio is New York magazine creative director Jody Kwan and city editor Chris Bonannos. They've been writing about how to take a photo in their night school newsletter. And we want to hear from you. If you have any questions about improving your photography or if you consider yourself a pretty good photographer, tell us your trips, your tics, ticks, chips, something. Chips and ticks. Okay, whatever the numbers. 212-433. WNYC 212-433-9692. Brain injury taking effect. Okay, in your newsletter you talked about taking pictures of kids. For the parents out there, what did you learn from your photographers about what is required to take a children's picture?
- [19:55]
Christopher Bonanno
I'll jump in a few things. In the case of our particular photographer, he said the real challenge is having parents right behind the kids, right behind him telling the kids what to do while he's trying to tell the kids what to do. And their goals are somewhat different. But one thing that every photographer we have talked to so far for this newsletter has said is get closer, get closer, get closer. Especially for faces. But for other things too. Your food, anything. Go in closer. Your pictures will almost always be better. And that is doubly true for things like Instagram because you're looking at it on your phone, which is what, 2 inches wide? Maybe 3 if you have the big one. It's not a big, you know, it's not a wall sized print. You're holding it in your hand even if you're close. If you go in closer, all that dead air around your subject disappears. And we were talking before about the eyes. You can get in on the eyes sometimes too, Jodi.
- [20:53]
Alison Stewart
If someone wants to move away from their camera phone and start with a real live camera, what's a good starter camera?
- [21:03]
Jody Kwan
That's a good question.
- [21:04]
Christopher Bonanno
Those basic little mirrorless ones now are easy to handle.
- [21:08]
Jody Kwan
You know, any point and shoot. I would say there's so many, I don't think you can go wrong, frankly. I think there's a huge market for them and I think that you don't need to spend a lot of money anymore on a decent camera. They all come with incredible lenses and I think you never want to get fancy. I think you Want the most basic point and shoot. You know, you go to B and H or anywhere and you can get something probably for like $150 and you'll be fine. But the iPhone is pretty good. That's one thing I really. That's what I would recommend, honestly.
- [21:44]
Christopher Bonanno
A number of people who shoot for the magazine do so with their phones. Now they have the latest iPhone. Sure, because the animatronics thing is so good and like that. But that's enough for what they. To sort of make it dance.
- [21:56]
Alison Stewart
And make it dance is a good.
- [21:58]
Listener
Way to put it because you get.
- [22:00]
Alison Stewart
Into the filters, you get into the.
- [22:02]
Listener
Brightness, you get into the sharpness. Could you talk about that a little bit?
- [22:07]
Jody Kwan
Well, but all of our restaurant photography is done with the iPhone. And the reason that is is because the iPhone has become an extension of oneself. So our photographer is able to go into the restaurant and he's able to take pictures of people dining, of the food, of the whole scene, the chefs preparing the food with the iPhone. And he can get the exact same results, but it doesn't feel like he's coming in with this big apparatus. So he's less invasive coming in with this iPhone than he is with this other A light kit going on. Yes, absolutely. And also he can get moving pictures. So we do. You know, he's getting cinematic reels as well as still pictures. And that's how we've been able to distinguish ourselves from the rest with these really interesting, you know, restaurant review images.
- [22:59]
Christopher Bonanno
This is Hugo Yu, the guy who does a lot of our food photography. Very often what he'll do is, for example, he was talking about this in the newsletter when shooting a cocktail or a drink, you know, you'll get the pour now and square on against the glass. You know, you see the water drop and the sparkle of it all and the pleasant qualities of the glassware's profile and all of it, you know, it enhances something. And yeah, because the iPhone is good in low light, that's especially helpful in restaurants too.
- [23:29]
Jody Kwan
It's just so user friendly.
- [23:31]
Listener
Let's talk to Frank. Hi, Frank. Thanks for making the time to call. All of it.
- [23:37]
No, thank you for doing this. Who does a radio show about photography. That's beautiful, right? I mean, we're all using our imagination to see what. What everyone is speaking about. But I was talking to your guide there. I represent photographers as an agent and I work with a lot of photojournalists. And speaking the way you were just speaking about getting in there, showing the sweat on the glass you know, as we all know, that's what photojournalists do. They get deeply in, no matter what the topic may be. Right. And they're using the iPhones as well when, you know, they need something really, really quick if it's something that's sort of spontaneous. So, you know, photojournalists really have no blinders. You know, they're in deep. And I actually have this platform, it's Projections NYC, where I've had about 80 photographers who are covering the Ukraine, Russian war, and they've documented war crimes where it is right there they are right. You know, where they're digging up graves and all these things. And, you know, photojournalists really, you know, are the eyes for all of us when we, you know, because we can't see what's going on in Gaza or Ukraine or all these tough places around the world.
- [24:59]
I'm going to ask you to stop there. Frank, thank you so much for calling in. Let's talk to Marian in Connecticut. Hey, Marian, thanks for calling, all of it.
- [25:08]
Swati
Thank you. I love this subject matter. We have an Instagram account, and we do something called Foodie Fridays, and we use our iPhones, and it's about local restaurants and the food that we eat. And I'd like to know how to take better photos to make it more engaging. I mean, we get pretty fair engagement, but I think we can do better.
- [25:38]
Jody Kwan
Get closer to the food.
- [25:39]
Christopher Bonanno
That's right. And our.
- [25:41]
Listener
She's a real estate agent, we should say.
- [25:42]
Christopher Bonanno
By the way, I was gonna toss in one more piece of dice that Hugo gave us, which is that he brings a little light. Instead of using the flash on the camera, he brings a little light. And he said it makes everything 20 times better if you can do it without being intrusive, without messing up everybody's restaurant experience, he said it makes a huge difference for him.
- [26:01]
Jody Kwan
One other thing I would add, which is something that we appreciate in the magazine, is, you know, we like food to feel as if it's been touched. So don't be afraid to photograph a piece of pie that's already been eaten into or a burger that's been sliced and bitten into. So it should just feel like it's had the human touch, you know, as opposed to a pristine, perfect dish. So. And also get much closer to it. We don't really care for the surroundings of the food, like the plating, the placemat, the flatware, but really getting into the dish itself.
- [26:45]
Alison Stewart
As we mentioned, she's a real estate agent, so if someone wants to take a Picture of a home to make it seem homier or make it seem inviting. What would you suggest?
- [26:56]
Christopher Bonanno
Sign up for the newsletter because a subsequent installment is going to be how to shoot house pictures of your interiors.
- [27:03]
Alison Stewart
Give me one tip.
- [27:05]
Jody Kwan
One tip is don't make it so perfect. Yeah, it should feel authentic. If it's a kitchen, for instance, it should have stuff on the counters. It should feel that it's inhabited. Otherwise it's too sterile.
- [27:20]
Alison Stewart
Where can they go to sign up for your newsletter? This sounds really great.
- [27:24]
Christopher Bonanno
It's on the nymag.com website. If you Google New York Mag Night School, there will be a page to sign up for it and it's five installments after that.
- [27:32]
Alison Stewart
Anything you wanted to add before we.
- [27:34]
Christopher Bonanno
Go beyond get closer? I don't know.
- [27:36]
Jody Kwan
I think, you know, people are voyeurs. So the more information that you can sort of tuck into a picture, the more interesting it will be for the viewer.
- [27:45]
Alison Stewart
Okay, I'm gonna take a picture of you for our website now. Tell me what I should do to make sure you're both okay.
- [27:50]
Christopher Bonanno
There's a trick that's in the newsletter from Frankie. He says select 2x, I.e. make it blow it up to double size and then back out a little bit and it flattens the portrait slightly.
- [28:06]
Alison Stewart
All right, So I backed out. All right, all right. 1. Did you say cheese? Say New York Magazine.
- [28:13]
Jody Kwan
No teeth with your eyes.
- [28:15]
Alison Stewart
Smile with your eyes.
- [28:16]
Christopher Bonanno
Okay, no teeth.
- [28:19]
Alison Stewart
No teeth. From the New York Magazine crew, the editor, New York Magazine's creative director, Jody Kwan, and city editor Chris Bonannos have been my guests. Thank you for being with us.
- [28:29]
Jody Kwan
Thank you. Morning.
- [28:32]
Christopher Bonanno
One sausage McMuffin with egg, please.
- [28:34]
Jody Kwan
Okay, your total is.
- [28:35]
Christopher Bonanno
Wait. Let's negotiate. How's about you throw in hash browns for a dollar?
- [28:40]
Jody Kwan
Well, yes, sir. That price is already a do.
- [28:43]
Christopher Bonanno
Take it or leave it.
- [28:45]
Jody Kwan
Take it, I guess. Buy one, add one for a dollar on sausage McMuffin with egg, hash browns and more with McValue. Most locations open 5am or earlier. Price and participation may vary. Limited time only. Valid for item of equal or lesser value. Ba da ba ba ba.
- [29:01]
Ira Flatow
This is Ira Flato, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, the science Friday team has been reporting high quality science and technology news, making science fun for curious people by covering everything from the outer reaches of space to the rapidly changing world of AI to the tiniest microbes in our bodies. Audiences trust our show because they know we're driven by a mission to inform and serve listeners first and foremost with important news. They won't get anywhere else, and our sponsors benefit from that halo effect. For more information on becoming a sponsor, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.