How to Win Holiday Cookie Season

Summary

Podcast Summary: ALL OF IT – "How to Win Holiday Cookie Season"

Episode Details:

• Title: How to Win Holiday Cookie Season
• Host: Alison Stewart
• Guest: Eric Kim, New York Times Food and Cooking Columnist
• Release Date: December 19, 2024
• Duration: Approximately 16 minutes

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Introduction to Holiday Cookie Season

Alison Stewart kicks off the episode by announcing a holiday cookie swap scheduled to take place in just over two hours. She shares her experience of making Dori Greenspan's chocolate thumbprint cookies, highlighting their origin from a delightful baking mistake described by Greenspan in her column. Alison also introduces Eric Kim, a New York Times food and cooking columnist known for his lemon turmeric crinkle cookies, who is here to discuss his specialty: bacon cookies for the holiday season.

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The Democratic Nature of Cookies

Eric Kim emphasizes the unique, inclusive aspect of cookie baking:

"Cookies have a low barrier to entry, so everyone bakes the recipe. So they're kind of democratic in that way." [01:10]

He appreciates Cookie Week as a period when everyone can participate, reflecting the communal spirit of baking during the holidays.

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Challenges in Cookie Baking

The conversation delves into the specific challenges that make cookie baking distinct from other baked goods. Eric highlights the importance of accurate measurements:

"Weigh your flour. If you don't have a scale, you can also spoon the flour into the measuring cup and level it off with the back of a butter knife." [03:46]

He explains that precise flour measurement is crucial not only for the correct texture but also to ensure the intended flavor isn't diluted.

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Developing New Cookie Recipes

Eric shares insights into how he and his team develop new cookie recipes each year for Cookie Week:

"I think of us as like a boy band or a girl band when it comes to cookies. There are so many different cultures, different types, different flavor combinations that people like and don't like." [03:51]

He describes the diverse range of cookie styles his team creates, ensuring there's something for every palate, from chewy crinkled lemon turmeric cookies to iced peppermint shortbreads.

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Listener Interaction and Baking Tips

Listener Call from Howard (Jersey City): Howard discusses his experience making Eric's Lemon Turmeric Crinkle cookies, noting challenges with dough stickiness and portion sizes:

"The dough is incredibly sticky and hard to roll it in your hands into balls... I weighed them at 1 ounce each. And when I do it next time I'm gonna probably do less than one ounce each." [05:14]

Eric Kim's Tips: In response, Eric advises using powdered sugar instead of flour to manage sticky dough and recommends investing in a good cookie scoop for uniformity:

"Get a small ice cream scoop. [...] It makes the cookie experience much more manageable." [07:40]

He further emphasizes that baking should be enjoyable:

"The cookie baking experience should be really fun for you." [07:55]

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Storage and Freezing Cookies

A listener inquires about freezing cookies for later use. Eric confirms that many cookies, including those baked for the swap, can be frozen:

"A lot of cookies can be frozen post bake for sure... I have this year's Cookie Week cookies in my freezer because I thought it'd be fun to sort of save each year." [08:33]

He shares his personal habit of labeling and storing annual cookie batches, creating a nostalgic collection over the years.

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Ingredient Substitutions: Olive Oil vs. Butter

Alison asks about Eric's choice to use olive oil instead of butter in his cookies. Eric explains the impact on flavor and texture:

"Olive oil adds a little pepperiness, fruitiness. [...] It amplifies that yellow flavor, that electric color." [09:31]

He discusses balancing moisture levels by combining olive oil with cream cheese to maintain the desired cookie texture.

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Mixing Techniques: Hand Mixing vs. Electric Mixing

The discussion shifts to mixing methods. Eric prefers hand mixing for better control over aeration and to achieve a chewier texture:

"Mixing the wet ingredients by hand and aerating that fat in the liquid results in better emulsion." [10:46]

He advocates for accessible baking techniques, ensuring that specialized equipment isn't a necessity for making delicious cookies.

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Listener Stories and Additional Tips

Kimberly from Baltimore: Kimberly shares her Hanukkah-themed cookies, creatively naming them after traditions like Mr. Maccabee and Hanukkah Harry. Eric appreciates the cultural touch, relating it to his love for rolled-out cookies and their nostalgic value:

"They're the type that you can make the dough in advance and... the dough has time to rest and really hydrate." [12:25]

Ann from Chatham, New Jersey: Ann recounts making uniform cookies by spinning them into mason jars using glass molds during a wedding, ensuring perfect fit and presentation:

"The cookies fit perfectly into my mason jars. So it was great." [14:04]

Angela from Mansville, New Jersey: Angela describes her lime coconut snowball cookies, detailing her process of incorporating cream cheese and lime zest, then glazing and coating them in coconut:

"They are just so delicious and they look like little snowballs. So they're really fun too." [15:13]

Allison's Query: Allison, identifying herself as a novice baker seeking advice, asks for beginner-friendly cookie recommendations. Eric suggests his lemon turmeric crinkle cookies and ginger cheesecake cookies as ideal starting points:

"My lemon turmeric crinkle cookies are meant for beginners. They're really simple. It's just a one bowl dough." [16:00]

He underscores the importance of focusing on quality over quantity:

"Quality matters more than quantity when it comes to cookies." [16:07]

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Conclusion

The episode wraps up with Eric sharing his enthusiasm for holiday cookie baking, reinforcing the idea that baking is not just about creating treats but also about fostering community and joy. He extends warm holiday wishes to listeners, encouraging them to enjoy the baking process and the delicious results.

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Notable Quotes:

• "Weigh your flour. If you don't have a scale, you can also spoon the flour into the measuring cup and level it off with the back of a butter knife." — Eric Kim [03:46]
• "Get a small ice cream scoop. [...] It makes the cookie experience much more manageable." — Eric Kim [07:40]
• "The cookie baking experience should be really fun for you." — Eric Kim [07:55]
• "It's just a one bowl dough. I think that one has given people a lot of success." — Eric Kim [16:00]

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This episode of ALL OF IT provides a rich exploration of holiday cookie baking, blending expert advice with heartfelt listener stories. Whether you're an experienced baker or just starting, Eric Kim's insights offer valuable tips to make your holiday cookie season a sweet success.

Transcript

[Listener Support]

Listener support, WNYC Studios.

[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart here in the WNYC offices. We've organized a holiday cookie swap. It's happening in just over two hours. This year, I made Dori Greenspan's chocolate thumbprint cookies. She wrote about them for her last column because she said they came from a mistake she made. That's my kind of cookie. A producer for Team Olivet is making a cookie recipe developed by my next guest. Eric Kim is a New York Times food and cooking columnist and participated in NYT's Cooking Annual December Cookie Week. He's written a lemon turmeric crinkle cookie recipe and he's here to talk bacon cookies the this holiday season. Hi, Eric.

[Eric Kim]

Hey, how's it going? Love being on here for cookies.

[Alison Stewart]

It's so much fun. Cookie week on the whole, what is it about cookies that is a unique challenge when it comes to baked goods?

[Eric Kim]

Ooh, unique challenge. I was gonna say that when I think of cookies, I think of especially from the perspective of a recipe developer, I feel that they are. They have a low barrier to entry, so everyone bakes the recipe. So they're kind of democratic in that way. So I really like Cookie Week because it's the time and everyone can participate.

[Alison Stewart]

Listeners, we wanna hear from you. What's your favorite cookie to make or eat for the holiday season? 212-433-9692. Do you have any cooking or baking questions that we might be able to answer right now? Are you looking for inspiration? Our number is 212-433-9692. Share with us your favorite holiday cookie right now. 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC.

[Unknown Speaker]

You can get in on the conversation.

[Alison Stewart]

Or you can always.

[Unknown Speaker]

All right.

[Alison Stewart]

You and the teams at the time.

[Unknown Speaker]

Wrapped a cookie week earlier this month, which you do every year before the winter holidays. It's your fifth year going on now.

[Alison Stewart]

Why are cookies so good slash fun.

[Unknown Speaker]

This time of year?

[Eric Kim]

I think it's the fact that we finally have time to slow down. And even though most of these cookies only take 30 minutes to an hour, you know, that time to really pause and mix up the dough. And, you know, consider the day as a day dedicated to cookies. That's a real luxury, I think. And so it's really fun to watch, especially on the Internet. People are always tagging us in the cookie recipes that they make. And you get to really look into people's lives and into people's kitchens, and I'm a really nosy person, so I love this season.

[Alison Stewart]

Before we get deeper into the cookies.

[Unknown Speaker]

This is a technical question.

[Eric Kim]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

How important is scale when baking cookies, do measurements need to be exact?

[Eric Kim]

Oh, yeah, they kind of do. And the reason is, you know, no matter what, the end result will be delicious. But when you're asking about challenges with baking, I think the one thing I like to remind people every year is weigh your flour. And if you don't have a scale, you can also spoon the flour into the measuring cup and level it off with the back of a butter knife. Okay. The reason for this is if you have too much flour in your cookie, it's just not gonna taste as strongly of that flavor it's meant to taste like. And so the correct amount of flour is really important for not just texture, but also flavor. And I think people maybe add too much flour to their recipes. It's just the way flour falls into a measuring cup. You can pack the flour if you're not careful. It's a real universal tip that everyone should remember when they're baking cookies this holiday season.

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, what's your process for delivering and developing a new cookie every year?

[Eric Kim]

Oh, it's so fun. Okay. The reason I love cookie week at NYT Cooking is we sort of. I heard someone call us the Adventures of cooking. I. I don't know if I would say that, but I do think of us as like, a boy band or a girl band when it comes to cookies. There are so many different cultures, different types, different flavor combinations that people like and don't like. So it helps when you have different characters. There are seven every year. Seven of us recipe developers who develop. We each kind of have our own corks and predilections. And for instance, I really love a chewy crinkled cookie. Mine's a lemon turmeric cookie. This year, you can really rely on Su Lee to do a shortbread. My colleague Ron Vreeland really likes nuts, so he has a rum buttered almond cookie this year. You know, Melissa Clark makes the most perfect shortbread in the world, and hers is an iced peppermint cookie. And if you want more of a project, Claire Saffitz has, like, a bouche de noel cookie where you roll out some chocolate dough with a filling and you slice them and they look like little logs. It's really adorable. And just to, like, finish out the boy band, Sola el Way loves doing colorful things, and so she has a holiday rocky road. I think the point is that everyone can Participate, because you can pick whichever cookie fits your tongue.

[Alison Stewart]

You know, let's take Howard from Jersey City. Hi, Howard. Thanks for calling all of it.

[Eric Kim]

Hey, Howard.

[Listener Support]

Hey. Thank you for taking my call. So every year around this time, I pick one cookie to make, and I make lots of them and put them in little boxes and take them to everybody that I visit. And this year I made Eric's Lemon Turmeric Crackling cookie. And it's fantastic. It's turned out very nicely. A couple of issues that I had. One, at room temperature, the dough is incredibly sticky and hard to roll it in your hands into balls. What I was able to do, though, is chill the batter for a while and then put confectioner sugar over my hands when I rolled them instead of flour. And that worked pretty well. I've also found the first time I made them, they were really too big. I weighed them at 1 ounce each. And when I do it next time I'm gonna probably do less than one ounce each because I put them on a little scale to make sure they're uniform. But it's delicious. And everyone that I've made them for so far has raved.

[Alison Stewart]

Thank you so much for those cookies. We got a couple of them in the house right now, courtesy of Luke. First of all, what do you mean when you say, when you call it a crinkle cookie?

[Eric Kim]

Yeah, it's one thing that is really special about all these cookies is they're really easy to make. And these crinkle cookies, as they bake, the powdered sugar coating kind of reveals the interior. And it's just the way the cracks form, it results in this really dramatic white. You know, I call them like tectonic plates. And they reveal this some beast, some beam like yellow on the inside. And, and I think that's the thing about these cookie recipes. You can, you should really pick recipes that I call them self decorating cookies. Like, inherently, they're beautiful decorating cookies. You know, it's a fun thing to do, but I actually really don't have that much time to do stuff like that during the holidays. So I like when the recipe just comes out of the oven already. Beautiful. That's what these do. I do want to answer his questions though, because one thing that I really recommend people to do is get a, get a small ice cream scoop. I have like a 2 tablespoon number 40 cookie scoop. And that means that if your dough is a little sticky, yes, refrigerating the dough helps. But if you have a cookie scoop, you get uniform rounds. And there's something really it makes the cookie experience much more manageable. I'm not really one who loves rolling out individual balls during this busy season.

[Unknown Speaker]

I got a good tip for you, Melon Scooper.

[Eric Kim]

Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah. Stuff like that, you got to make your, your life easier. The cookie baking experience should be really fun. I mean, it should be fun for you, I think. I think that's the point. The food always comes out better if you're having fun.

[Unknown Speaker]

Hey, listener, we want to know your favorite cookie to make during the holidays. Is there one you look forward to every year? 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. That's our phone number. Or if you cookie baking questions, you can send those as well. 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. My guest is Eric Kim, New York Times Food and cooking calmness. This is a question for you from inside the house. This is from wnyc. So we're going to be having two dozen cookies at our swap today. Can I put them in the freezer and serve them to my family on Christmas Day?

[Eric Kim]

Ooh, yeah, definitely. A lot of cookies can be frozen post bake for sure. I'm assuming these cookies have been baked already. I think that' lovely way to sort of. Actually, I have, I have, I have this week's, this year's Cookie week cookies in my freezer because I thought it'd be fun to sort of save each year if that's and like kind of I marked 2024 on this box. And I think, you know, the cookie collection that you make and eat and serve every year, it's a nice way to look back on that in years later to kind of remember what that year was like. I don't know. I like to make, I like, I like a repeated cookie. But there's sometimes there is a cookie of the year. And you know, for me this year, I'm a huge fan of Melissa Clark's iced peppermint cookies. Those are in my freezer right now.

[Alison Stewart]

I wanted to ask you about your recipe because instead of butter as fat for this cookie, you use olive oil instead. How does that change the flavor profile?

[Eric Kim]

It's nice. It adds a little pepperiness, fruitiness. It's a lemon turmeric cookie, so the flavors go really nicely together. But it's also a cosmetic thing, to be honest. The olive oil gives it a nice, it really amps up that yellow flavor, that electric color, you know. But I also think, but like in a crinkle cookie, you don't want too much moisture in there. And butter has a lot of water. That's why I use a combo of oil and cream cheese, so that there's no water, not as much liquid in the cookie, so that when they crinkle, the powdered sugar stays dry. But it's sort of this. I've always been interested in cream cheese cookies, you know, or like, alternative fat cookies. What happens when you don't use butter, too is the other flavors really shine. And this cookie is so delicate. It's lemon zest and turmeric and nothing else, and vanilla. But, like, those things are kind of delicate flavors. And so it helps when the fat doesn't overpower those flavors. With that said, the cream cheese adds also a little bit of, you know, tang. And the oil, the olive oil is really. It's fruity. It's more complex, and I would say more adult.

[Alison Stewart]

Sometimes you can mix the wet ingredients in an electric mixer, but in your video for the recipe, you say you like to hand mix it with a whisk for about 60 seconds. Why is that your preferred method?

[Eric Kim]

Oh, my God. I do this every year. I think every one of my cookies for the last five years for New York Times cooking have been hand mixed because, you know, you can really control the aeration. I'm convinced that mixing the wet ingredients by hand and aerating that fat in the liquid results in better emulsion. And. And also it's the texture. You end up with a chewier texture. You could. You could. If you use a mixer, you could over mix it, over beat it. It's also just what I said before about the democratic nature of cookies. I think it's really nice when you can tell people, hey, you don't need a $300 stand mixer to make these cookies. There's a. The barrier to entry is really low. That's really important. Cookie Week recipes. I have an M and M cookie. I have a Gochujang caramel cookie. They're all really special, but. And I have a matcha latte cookie from last year. They're all special, but you don't really need a mixer to make them.

[Unknown Speaker]

Let's talk to Kimberly, who's calling in from Baltimore. Hey, Kimberly.

[Eric Kim]

Hi, Kimberly.

[Listener Support]

Hi.

[Kimberly]

I love this conversation, and I love the cookies. I just wanted to add that the tradition we have is we love rolling out cookies. I love doing that with my daughters. And we make them into lots of different shapes. No classic cookies, but we. We name them Hanukkah names. So when we make the gingerbread man, we call him Mr. Maccabee and we make Hanukkah Harry and we just have, you know, ways of making it into like a Hanukkah tradition too. But it's so fun. And I would love to hear your thoughts on rolled out cookies in shapes as someone who doesn't like to decorate yourself.

[Eric Kim]

Oh, heck yeah. I just love the Hanukkah thing, by the way. That's amazing. Yeah, I would say, you know, I do. There is one rolled cookie, rolled out cookie that I do, which is when I make gingerbread cookies, I like to use a reindeer. I have like this little reindeer and horse like animal cookie cutters. And I don't know what it is, but I kind of just, I think I love animals. It brings out the kid in me. So that's the one thing that I do, you know, when it comes to rolled out cookies. For me, it reminds me of why growing up, I love the, the, you know, whether it's the Toll House or the Pillsbury kind of cookie dough from the, from the refrigerated section. Remember those like cut out cookies also with the little colored shape in the inside, the cutout cookies. I think I like rolling out, I like the rolled out cookies because they're it, they're, they're, they're the type that you can have, you can make the dough in advance and, and I think breaking up the work is a really helpful tip for the holidays. Like Claire Saffitz, for instance, for her bouche de no cookies. You can make everything ahead of time. And then if you break up each step, you know, across, you know, a couple days, then it just makes the product much easier to put out. It also means that the dough has time to rest and really hydrate and become one with each other. The flour and the liquid. You know, I think there's a thing about cookie baking. You don't have to do everything at once. Like think of it as you're planting seeds for future you. And that's what, that's. I think that's one thing I like about roll out cookies.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah, let's talk to Ann, who's calling in from Chatham, New Jersey. Hi, Ann.

[Ann]

Hi, how are you, Allison?

[Alison Stewart]

I'm doing great.

[Eric Kim]

Great.

[Ann]

Well, I was responding. I'm making Christmas cookies right now. So this, this broadcast is very fortuitous, but for the caller that came in about making cookies uniform. I made cookies for my daughter's wedding because she didn't have a, of wedding cake and so just before the cookies came out of the oven while they were still really hot, I took a glass and I put it over every cookie and I spun it around. And these cookies fit perfectly into my mason jars. So it was great.

[Alison Stewart]

Love that. Thank you so much for calling. Let's talk to Angela. Hi, Angela.

[Angela]

Hi. So my favorite Christmas cookie is a Swedish thumbprint cookie that you roll it in ground almonds and then you put your. You make a thumbprint and then you put jelly in the center. And I thought, like all my recipes.

[Ann]

That I got from my mom, I.

[Angela]

Thought it was an old family recipe, but it turns out it's from out of the Betty Crocker cookbook.

[Alison Stewart]

Love that. And there's an Allison who's on the line. Hi, Alison.

[Eric Kim]

Hey, Allison.

[Angela]

Hi, Allison. It's Allison.

[Alison Stewart]

Hi, Allison.

[Angela]

I'm calling from. Hi, Allison. I'm calling from Mansville, New Jersey. And every year I make about 12 different kinds of cookies. That there is one that is always on the list. I also try to make a new one every year. But the one standard for me, because it's my personal favorite, is a lime coconut snowball. And it's basically a butterball with a little bit of cream cheese in the dough and a ton of lime zest. And you roll and bake those and then you dip them in a lime glaze and roll them in coconut. And they are just so delicious and they look like little snowballs. So they're really fun too.

[Alison Stewart]

That's a lot of good times. Thank you so much.

[Unknown Speaker]

Eric.

[Alison Stewart]

Really quickly, somebody sent a text.

[Unknown Speaker]

I'm a horrible baker, but I want to get into the baking Christmas spirit. Any that you recommend. I got about a minute to go.

[Eric Kim]

Yeah, definitely. I mean, I would say my lemon turmeric crinkle cookies are meant for beginners. They're really simple. It's just a one bowl dough and you, you roll them out and. Or you scoop them out into powdered sugar and you bake them. I think that one has given people a lot of success. We also have a ginger cheesecake cookie. The last color reminded me of, you know, this one, which it's stuffed with a cheesecake filling and it's really delicious. I think when you, when you're making cookies for Christmas, it's really nice to pick one or two that are really special and to do them well. That's what I do. I like to really deliver kind of like perfect cookies. So that the result, I think, I really think quality, you know, matters more than quantity when it comes to cookies. So I would recommend those two. Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

Eric Kim from the New York Times, thanks for all of your cookie wisdom.

[Eric Kim]

Yeah. Thank you so much. Happy holidays.