Podcast Summary:

Podcast: All Of It
Episode: If There Was a Vogue Magazine For Pigeons, It Would Be This Book
Host: Kusha Navadar (in for Alison Stewart)
Guest: Andrew Garn (photographer, author of “The New York Behind the Feathers”)
Air Date: August 22, 2024

Overview

This episode of “All Of It” celebrates New York City’s oft-maligned but ever-present unofficial bird: the pigeon. Host Kusha Navadar speaks with photographer and writer Andrew Garn, who has documented the secret beauty and surprising charisma of city pigeons in his new book, “The New York Behind the Feathers”—described as “Vogue magazine for pigeons.” The conversation dives into the world of these urban birds through lush photography, fascinating anatomy, their complex relationship with New Yorkers, and the passionate subcultures that revere them.

Main Discussion Points

1. Falling in Love With Pigeons & Photography

• Origins of Garn’s Craft:
  • Garn shares a childhood memory of being called “the Richard Avedon of ..." by his mother and his introduction to photography through an after-school program in the ‘70s (01:24–02:13).
  • Quote: "He taught us photography. He also taught us filmmaking and camping, all sorts of things. But photography really caught my attention... it was like magic. I was like 13 or something." — Andrew Garn (01:53)
• From Birdwatching to Pigeon Portraiture:
  • Recounts first photographing pigeons as a teenager and later recognizing “elitism” in birdwatching circles, which often ignore pigeons (02:15–02:51).
  • Describes the revelation of photographing pigeons in studio lighting, which unlocks their coloration and diversity: "When you put them against a backdrop, they are totally different birds. And they are so diverse in their coloration... there's nothing like it, really." — Andrew Garn (02:53)

2. Inside the Book: Structure and Sections

• Book Organization:
  • Sections include studio portraits, baby pigeons, people with pigeons, pigeons bathing, and pigeons as lovers (03:19–06:02).
  • Garn explains, "Pigeons have so much personality... they are about as smart as dogs, and they're similar in that man has tweaked them by breeding different breeds to their fancy." (03:50)
• Pigeon Genetics & Diversity:
  • Points out the immense variety in colors and forms of NYC’s pigeons due to centuries of hybridization and escapees from domestic breeds (04:00).
• Pigeon People:
  • Features NYC’s diverse group of pigeon enthusiasts, including prominent figures like Union Square’s “Mother Pigeon” (05:18–05:23).

3. Listener Engagement: Pigeon Tales & Misconceptions

• Good Luck & Street Encounters:
  • A caller, Jane, tells a classic NYC story about being pooped on by a pigeon after an important business meeting and first date, taking it as a sign of good luck (06:10–06:54).
  • Garn affirms the superstition: "Very lucky... I'm sure if a pigeon interceded on your behalf, you got the job."
• Feeding Pigeons—Do’s and Don’ts:
  • Garn responds to a text equating pigeons to “flying rats,” urging listeners to feed pigeons only seeds, not bread or processed food: "If people were more knowledgeable about what to feed pigeons, I think there would be less of them... and there would be healthier pigeons as well." (07:22–08:11)

4. Art, Technique, and Transforming Perception

• Photographing Pigeons:
  • Garn describes setting up mobile studios to photograph pigeons where they are—at coops and rescue centers, primarily the Wild Bird Fund. Portraits are named after rescuers (08:27–09:09).
• Pigeon Details & Iridescence:
  • Highlights extraordinary eye and feather diversity: "This is about... 88 different eyes of pigeons, and you can see the variation. Even human eyes don't have this kind of variation. You have lavender eyes and yellow eyes and white eyes, black eyes..." (09:21)
  • Addresses the old question, “Where are the baby pigeons?” by sharing he’s raised and photographed them at all stages (09:55).

5. Caller Memories & Pigeon Fancier Culture

• Childhood Memories:
  • Listener Paul remembers rooftop pigeon coops and training birds to come on signal (10:34–11:33).
  • Garn explains pigeons’ adaptability and the debate over keeping them caged vs. flying (11:33).
• Pigeon Fanciers and Breeds:
  • Sandra recalls her father’s flock and the world of competitive pigeon fancying (12:14–13:30).
  • She mentions specialty breeds like fantails and Birmingham Rollers; Garn affirms the diverse roles of pigeons.

6. Pigeon Anatomy & Evolution

• Facts and Figures:
  • Garn drops quick facts: Pigeons weigh about 13 ounces, have 1,500 feathers, can fly up to 500 miles at 50 mph, and possess huge breast muscles for powered flight (13:31–13:59).
  • Unique features: crop milk production from both sexes, communal parenting, hollow bones, nine air sacs for efficient respiration, and gizzards with pebbles for grinding food (13:59–15:38).
  • Quote: "Their bones are hollow, very strong, very sturdy... Also, birds, as pigeons have nine air sacs in addition to their lungs to help them with breathing... They are just so efficient that way." — Andrew Garn (15:07)

7. A Pigeon in Studio: Meet Kahlua

• Live Guest Star!
  • Garn introduces Kahlua, a rehabbed pigeon from the Wild Bird Fund—calm, speckled, marble-colored, and awaiting release (16:04–16:53).
  • Kusha notes this is not Garn’s first time bringing a pigeon to WNYC studios (16:53).
• Hands-on Natural History:
  • Garn describes the physical features—keel bone, breast muscle, hollow bones, visual processing, and rapid, weight-saving mating process (17:14–19:38).
  • Demonstrates pigeons’ calm demeanor and responsive nature in studio.

8. Urban Hazards & Rescue

• Urban Pigeon Lifespans:
  • Pet pigeons can live up to 20–30 years; city pigeons survive just 1–3 years (19:56).
  • Hazards include traffic, poor diet, and human interference.
  • Garn notes pandemic changes: flocks increased as people sought nature in local parks (19:56–20:59).

9. Doves, Pigeon Shoots, and Rescue Work

• Clarifications:
  • Garn explains that pigeons and doves are essentially the same species. All-white pigeons are often confused with doves (21:13–21:17).
• Animal Rights:
  • Criticizes Pennsylvania’s live pigeon shoots and details pigeons stolen from NYC for use in these events (21:18–22:17).
  • Quote: "I've caught them red handed... They get a dollar or two per pigeon and they drive them to Pennsylvania... it's very sad." — Andrew Garn (21:25)

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Changing Minds:
  • "Sometimes total strangers, they say, you know, I kind of hated pigeons before, but then I saw your book, and it totally turned me around. That was my goal from the beginning." — Andrew Garn (22:23)
• On Human-Pigeon Connection:
  • "It's not about me. It's for... about pigeons. Look at how innocent and beautiful. They're so connected to humans. Like, he's looking at me, this little pigeon." — Andrew Garn (22:53)
• Kahlua the Studio Pigeon:
  • "This is Kahlua. And I just wanted to say Kahlua's pronouns are he, him, it, they, she, and hers... Because we don't know." — Andrew Garn (16:04)

Noteworthy Timestamps

• 00:23: Host sets up the NYC context and introduces Andrew Garn
• 01:36: Garn recounts his entry into photography
• 02:15: Origins of his pigeon interest and first attempts at pigeon photography
• 03:19: Book’s structure and Garn’s artistic approach
• 06:10: Jane’s call about luck and pigeon poop
• 07:22: Text about “flying rats” and Garn’s feeding advice
• 08:27: Studio portrait technique explained
• 09:21: Discussion about pigeon eye/feather diversity
• 10:34: Paul’s call on old and new rooftop pigeon coops
• 13:31: Pigeon anatomy rundown
• 16:04: Introduction of Kahlua, the in-studio pigeon guest
• 19:56: Discussion of urban and pet pigeon lifespans
• 21:17: Garn details pigeon theft for Pennsylvania shoots
• 22:23: Garn on the joy of changing people’s minds about pigeons

Tone & Takeaways

The episode is warm, enthusiastic, and affectionate toward pigeons, full of personal anecdote, scientific curiosity, and unexpected urban drama. Garn comes across as both advocate and artist, eager to dispel myths and inspire guests to appreciate the often-overlooked beauty and complexity of city pigeons.

Whether it’s through personal stories, natural history, or stunning visuals, “If There Was a Vogue Magazine For Pigeons, It Would Be This Book” invites listeners to see pigeons—and perhaps city wildlife in general—in a new, kinder light.