Podcast Summary: All Of It – “Incarcerated Fathers and Their Daughters”

Original Air Date: August 13, 2024
Host: Alison Stewart, WNYC
Guests:

• Natalie Rae (Filmmaker, Co-Director of Daughters)
• Angela Patton (Co-Director, CEO of Girls for a Change, Founder of Camp Diva Leadership, Originator of Date with Dad)
• Chad Morris (Fatherhood Coach featured in the film)

Episode Overview

This episode delves into the documentary Daughters, a film chronicling a transformative dance that reunites incarcerated fathers with their daughters. The conversation explores the emotional, familial, and societal impact of such reunions, the origins of the program, the unique challenges faced by fathers and daughters separated by incarceration, and the healing process both endure. Daughters is praised for its raw and compassionate portrayal and its focus on breaking cycles of family separation.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Origin of the Father-Daughter Dance

[03:53]

• Angela Patton recounts that the dance originated from the desires of the girls themselves, nurtured within Girls for a Change's Girl Action Teams.
  • The space was designed to affirm girls' voices as “safe” and “brave,” allowing them to address personal and societal issues, including stereotypes about Black fatherhood.
  • When a peer couldn’t attend the dance due to her father’s incarceration, the girls wrote to the Richmond Sheriff to request an in-jail dance—an idea the sheriff accepted, leading to the creation of Date with Dad.
  • Notable Quote:

    “And that's when they decided to think about how they could be creative…making sure that their friend had the same experience.” — Angela Patton [05:26]

2. Filmmaking Approach and Focus

[06:08]

• Natalie Rae wanted viewers to connect authentically with the girls and their emotional journeys, rather than prescribing a message.
  • The filmmaking style adapted to the needs and rhythms of the girls.
  • Notable Quote:

    “…just allow people to connect to their experience has always been the most important thing.” — Natalie Rae [06:54]

3. Program Success & Family Reconnection

[06:59]

• Chad Morris details the high success rate: 95% of participating fathers stayed out of prison post-program.
  • The program’s power lies in its holistic approach, involving fathers, daughters, and mothers; everyone must agree to “turn their hearts toward each other.”
  • The process involves deep self-reflection, accountability, and the family’s collective growth.
  • Notable Quote:

    “It’s not just a program for the girls or only for the dads... it’s a combination of working with their entire family unit...” — Chad Morris [08:18]

4. Mothers’ Perspectives and Challenges

[08:57]

• Angela Patton shares the challenges mothers face in supporting or resisting their daughters’ relationships with incarcerated fathers.
  • She encourages mothers to reflect on their own experiences and consider breaking cycles for a healthier family dynamic.
  • Notable Quote:

    “...doing that heart work, which is hard work, but it’s necessary work, is how we kind of get the mothers to see...” — Angela Patton [10:31]

5. Expectations and Skepticism of Incarcerated Fathers

[11:16]

• Chad Morris addresses the skepticism many incarcerated fathers bring—often expecting just another visitation, not deep transformation.
  • He meets participants as fellow fathers, not as an authority, facilitating trust and introspection.
  • Notable Quote:

    “Most of us don’t want to be taught about fatherhood… But through our collective parenting experiences, I asked the question, what can’t we figure out?” — Chad Morris [12:41]

6. Filming in Prison: Vulnerability and Trust

[12:56]

• Natalie Rae describes how trust was built for filming inside the prison—cameraman Michael Fernandez shared similar life experiences with the fathers, sometimes joining their circle instead of filming.
  • Fostering empathy and connection diminished the anxiety of being on camera.
  • Notable Quote:

    “…whoever was bringing in cameras or behind the camera could connect it to the fathers.” — Natalie Rae [13:36]

Memorable Moments & Excerpts

Aubrey’s Math and Emotional Calculus [15:09–16:10]

• Aubrey, a young girl in the film, calculates how many years until she is reunited with her father, blending childhood innocence with a profound understanding of loss.
  • Clip Excerpt:

    “He’s coming home in seven more years... First it was nine years, and then the police took away two and then it was seven... I wish my dad was home already.” — Aubrey [15:37–16:10]

  • Alison Stewart: “No, I’m going to get my tears out now. Get my Kleenex.” [16:10]

On Showing the Range of Father-Daughter Experiences [16:23]

• Natalie Rae discusses the importance of showing different ages, relationships, and emotional coping strategies; every family is unique.
  • Notable Quote:

    “Every single father daughter relationship will be different…” — Natalie Rae [17:24]

Fatherhood from the Incarcerated Perspective [18:47]

• Chad Morris explains the challenge fathers face in managing pride, longing, guilt, and the struggle to show vulnerability in prison settings.
  • Key Point:
    Men are rarely encouraged to process or express such emotions within prison culture.

Santana’s Anger and Hope [20:48–21:25]

• Ten-year-old Santana voices her anger and sadness toward her father’s repeated incarcerations.
  • Clip Excerpt:

    “I’m sick of seeing myself cry because of the stuff you do, and it wasn’t my decision, it was your decision to make... It’s affecting me, mostly me.” — Santana [20:48–21:25]

• Angela Patton highlights how, beneath the anger, Santana is fiercely advocating for her father to “do better” and not give up on him.

Why the Film Doesn’t State Offenses [23:37]

• Natalie Rae:
  • “All of these girls deserve love and connection to their parents… the film really focuses on that father-daughter relationship… everything else doesn’t matter.” [23:48]

After the Dance: Emotional Preparation [24:26]

• Chad Morris addresses the emotional aftermath for fathers after such an intense reunion, explaining ongoing support and preparation are essential.
  • Notable Quote:

    “...when they go back to their pods or cells, they don’t have a person, most likely, that they can confide in...” — Chad Morris [25:32]

  • The dance is a high point, but the emotional work is continuous.

Notable Quotes

• Angela Patton: "[These programs are] not only a safe space, but a brave space... when you allow girls to be in a space that allows them to affirm their voice, to be seen, heard, and celebrated..." [04:04]
• Chad Morris: "All parents want the best for their kids. I inherently believe that. And I think these parents wanted to turn their hearts toward their children." [08:34]
• Natalie Rae: "All of these girls deserve love and connection... the film really focuses on that father daughter relationship and through everything, through the way that Chad works with the fathers, they never talk about sentences." [23:48]

Important Timestamps

• [03:53] – Angela Patton shares the origin story of the in-prison father-daughter dance.
• [06:08] – Natalie Rae explains her filmmaking philosophy.
• [06:59] – Chad Morris on what makes the program effective.
• [08:57] – Angela Patton on working with mothers.
• [11:16] – Chad Morris discusses fathers’ expectations.
• [13:05] – Natalie Rae on building trust for authentic filming.
• [15:09–16:10] – Clip: Aubrey’s thoughts on her father’s incarceration.
• [20:48–21:25] – Clip: Santana vocalizes pain and resilience.
• [23:48] – Rae explains the decision not to show the fathers’ offenses.
• [24:45] – Chad Morris on post-dance emotional support.

Overall Takeaway

This episode offers a compassionate, multi-layered look at the ripple effects of incarceration on families—especially daughters—and the unique healing that can occur when the system allows space for love and vulnerability. The documentary Daughters doesn’t dwell on the crimes or sentences, but rather on the emotional realities of children and their need to be known and loved by their fathers. Fathers, mothers, and children engage in “heart work” that is challenging but transformative, revealing pathways for breaking generational cycles and restoring family bonds.

Daughters is streaming on Netflix beginning August 14, 2024.