Podcast Summary:

All Of It — Is There Really A Difference Between 'Good' and 'Instant' Coffee?

Host: Khushan Avadar (in for Alison Stewart) | Guest: Peter Baker
WNYC, May 13, 2024

Episode Overview

This episode of "All Of It" centers around a culture war staple: the debate over “good” (fresh, specialty, ritualistic) and “instant” coffee. Inspired by Peter Baker’s recent New York Times essay, host Khushan Avadar explores how coffee rituals shape our daily lives and asks listeners to weigh in. Throughout, the discussion balances personal stories, cultural inertia, affordability, and the pure need for caffeine—probing whether taste, process, cost, or convenience ultimately matter most.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Coffee Preferences as Identity, Ritual, and Necessity

• Peter Baker’s Shift to Instant Coffee

  • Peter, once a self-described coffee purist, now opts for instant coffee after becoming a parent of two young children. This shift is less about taste and more about time and priorities.
  • "It's not a fetish for me anymore." (04:25)
  • He reflects on how coffee rituals structured his mornings, but eventually became “a hassle and a drag.” Switching to instant coffee felt liberating.
    • "It was a thrill... I'm drinking coffee and, as I noted in the piece, it sort of put me in touch with some of my earlier life experiences." (06:16)
  • He notes instant coffee has improved in quality over the years and can still evoke comfort and nostalgia.

• Cultural Inertia and the Fetishization of Coffee

  • Baker criticizes the cultural pressures around “striving for better coffee” as a marker of adulthood or refinement.
  • "We sort of osmotically absorb this belief that striving for better coffee is just something that adults do, something that we should do." (05:16)
  • “Coffee creep” and “coffee drift” are terms he uses to describe how small upgrades become compulsory pursuits.

Listeners’ Perspectives

• Cost and Accessibility

  • Calvin (08:19) calculates that brewing with instant coffee is vastly more economical than buying daily coffee shop drinks—citing a $690 savings over time.
  • Multiple callers reference New York’s rising specialty coffee prices ($6–$7/cup), emphasizing budget pressures.

• Versatility and Convenience

  • Sarah (09:57): Discovered Nescafe while traveling in Mexico; finds instant coffee crucial for travel and times when “the ritual” isn’t possible.
  • Kay (18:35): “I even microwave my water for my coffee, so I’m instant all the way. I swear by Mount Hagen. So tasty.”
  • Anna (19:35): Keeps a massive cup going all day and reheats it multiple times; brewing and quantity trump ritual.
  • Liz (14:54): Makes one large pot a week and reheats daily—prefers taste but also values practicality for family compromise.
  • Linda (20:48): Combines Pour Over and instant (!), blending both worlds.
    • Peter’s Response: “I feel like Linda was sent here to break the Internet.” (21:18)

• Unusual Methods

  • Bob (11:41): Adds a green tea bag to coffee for unique taste and health benefits.
    • Peter’s Response: “I have never put a tea bag in a cup of instant coffee, but I will tomorrow morning, I promise.” (12:34)
  • Debate on microwaving water and repeated reheating—divides listeners and even production staff.

• Purists and Personal Taste

  • Cool Deep (22:00): Calling from India, says, “There’s no comparison... they are two different things. It’s like comparing a muffin with a croissant.”
    • Laments instant as the only option in Indian cafés, misses New York/Colombian pour over.
  • Listener Text (17:51): “I prefer high-quality coffee, freshly ground, for the same reason I prefer farm-raised tomatoes and corn... taste buds vary from person to person.”

The Role of Rituals

• Many callers and the guest recognize ritual as a key reason for favoring traditional preparation. Even those who opt for convenience recall savoring the structure and “story” a coffee ritual provides.
• Others, like Annie (13:49), view coffee purely as a caffeine delivery system and care only about effects, not method:
  • "Just give me the drug, give me the caffeine. Thank you so much." (14:01)

The Limits of the Argument

• Host and guest agree: Coffee habits reveal larger priorities—time, comfort, identity, pragmatism—and the “right” coffee is intensely personal.
• Baker’s closing thought:
  • "...appreciate your rituals and cultivate them and honor them, but also don't get so attached to them beyond the point where they're working for you." (13:01)
• No consensus emerges; diversity of method is celebrated. (“People will get caffeine however they want.” 22:53)

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Coffee Rituals:
  • Peter Baker: "It turns the morning into a story with chapters. And that can be very comforting and very rewarding." (06:16)
• On Cost:
  • Calvin: "It's about a $690 savings buying a 14-ounce Nescafe instant coffee." (08:19)
• On Combining Methods:
  • Linda: "I always add a spoonful of instant before I do the pour over. So it's instant coffee.” (20:48)
    • Peter: "I feel like Linda was sent here to break the Internet.” (21:18)
• On Taste and Place:
  • Cool Deep (from India): "There's no comparison... it's like comparing a muffin with a croissant. So you can't compare them." (22:03)
• On Ritual vs. Utility:
  • Annie: "Just give me the drug, give me the caffeine. Thank you so much." (14:01)
• On Experimentation:
  • Bob: "If you put a green tea bag inside a good cup of coffee... the flavor is unique and good." (11:41)
    • Peter: “I have never put a tea bag in a cup of instant coffee, but I will tomorrow morning, I promise.” (12:34)

Key Timestamps

• [03:53] — Introduction to Small Stakes, Big Opinions: Coffee Edition
• [04:25] — Peter Baker discusses his coffee ritual and its decline
• [06:16] — Ritual as “chapters” of the morning, comfort vs. hassle
• [08:19] — Calvin’s cost breakdown of instant vs. specialty coffee
• [09:57] — Sarah’s dual approach: purist at home, instant for travel
• [11:41] — Bob shares the green tea bag experiment
• [13:01] — Peter reflects on not clinging to rituals that don’t serve you
• [13:49] — Annie's stance: utility and caffeine over ritual
• [14:54] — Liz’s make-ahead and reheat method
• [18:35] — Kay praises instant and mentions Mount Hagen brand
• [20:48] — Linda mixes instant with pour over (“breaks the Internet”)
• [22:00] — Cool Deep from India: Coffee culture differences and taste

Tone & Takeaway

The episode is lively, open-minded, and community-driven—marked by playful banter, earnest personal stories, and strong preferences. Coffee, as discussed, is woven closely with identity, memory, practicality, and pleasure. Whether you love intricate brewing or are instant all the way, the ultimate consensus is that “coffee is what you make of it”—figuratively and literally.

For more, follow Peter Baker at Tracks on Tracks (Substack), and share your own coffee stance with All Of It.