Jesse Eisenberg On His Oscar Nominated Screenplay For 'A Real Pain'

Summary

All Of It: Jesse Eisenberg on His Oscar-Nominated Screenplay for "A Real Pain"

Introduction

In this compelling episode of All Of It, hosted by Alison Stewart on WNYC, renowned actor, writer, and director Jesse Eisenberg delves deep into his Oscar-nominated screenplay, A Real Pain. Released on February 26, 2025, the episode not only explores the intricate layers of Eisenberg's latest work but also highlights the outstanding performance by Kieran Culkin, nominated for Best Supporting Actor. This episode offers listeners an intimate look into the creative process behind blending humor with profound historical themes.

Exploring "A Real Pain"

A Real Pain is a unique film that intertwines the lighthearted dynamics of a road trip buddy comedy with the heavy backdrop of a Holocaust-themed narrative. The story centers on two cousins, David (portrayed by Jesse Eisenberg) and Benji (played by Kieran Culkin), who embark on a journey to Poland to explore their family's roots and visit their grandmother's hometown.

Writing Process and Creative Freedom

Eisenberg shares his unconventional approach to scriptwriting, revealing how he penned much of A Real Pain through emails. This method allowed him to treat the screenplay more like a series of diary entries, fostering creative openness without the constraints of traditional scriptwriting software.

“[04:01] Jesse Eisenberg: I mean, I've written, like, plays and essays for 20 years, and I always write in an email form because I don't want to ever think of the thing as, like, going to need to be produced. It allows me to just be a little more creatively open-minded...”

This technique, while liberating, also posed challenges such as losing drafts. Nevertheless, Eisenberg believes that the essence of a truly great idea remains intact despite these obstacles.

Character Dynamics: ID and SuperEgo

The film's core revolves around the contrasting personalities of David and Benji, representing the psychological concepts of the ID and SuperEgo. Eisenberg reflects on his own experiences as a performer who grapples with introversion, mirroring David's anxieties and Benji's extroverted charm.

“[05:21] Jesse Eisenberg: Yeah, I think about that kind of thing all the time... I'm constantly just doing battle in my head with, like, the outgoing version of myself versus my instinct, which is to just walk into the corner of the room and face the wall.”

This internal struggle resonates through the characters, illustrating the delicate balance between outward charm and inner turmoil.

Personal Connection to Poland

Eisenberg's personal journey to Poland with his wife profoundly influenced the narrative of A Real Pain. Visiting his ancestral home and witnessing the remnants of his family's past provided a poignant backdrop for the film.

“[15:24] Jesse Eisenberg: My wife and I went to Poland in 2008. We stayed with my cousin Maria, who was a survivor of the war... Standing outside the house my family lived in until 1939, I felt detached, which taught me about the complex reality of connecting with one's history.”

This experience instilled in him the irony and anticlimax of seeking connection in places laden with historical trauma, a theme meticulously woven into the screenplay.

Sensitivity Towards Polish History and Filming

Eisenberg discusses his deep respect and sensitivity toward Polish history, acknowledging the nation's tumultuous past and the efforts of local communities to preserve and educate about it.

“[19:53] Jesse Eisenberg: Yeah, we filmed in Majdanek, a concentration camp near Lublin. It took time to negotiate... I wanted to celebrate the work they do in turning a place of terror into a museum of education.”

Filming in such significant locations required careful negotiation and a commitment to portraying history respectfully, avoiding exploitation while highlighting educational narratives.

Casting and Directing Challenges

Originally intending to play Benji, Eisenberg deferred the role to Kieran Culkin based on the latter's exceptional dedication and natural embodiment of the character. Culkin's commitment included memorizing lines rapidly and immersing himself fully in the role, often sleeping minimally to stay in character.

“[20:31] Jesse Eisenberg: Emma Stone advised me not to play Benji because directing such an unhinged character while managing production would be taxing. Kieran brought an unparalleled energy, sleeping two hours a night to stay in the spirit of Benji.”

This decision underscored the importance of collaborative synergy in filmmaking, highlighting Culkin's pivotal role in bringing Benji to life.

Lessons from Directing and Future Projects

Reflecting on his directorial debut with Saving the World, Eisenberg emphasizes the importance of connecting audiences emotionally with flawed characters. He acknowledges the critical reception of A Real Pain and shares insights into his approach to future projects.

“[22:56] Jesse Eisenberg: My first movie wasn't received as well because I didn't make it clear that it was okay to love flawed characters. With A Real Pain, I aimed to ensure the audience could connect and empathize with the protagonists despite their imperfections.”

Eisenberg remains optimistic about his creative trajectory, aiming to produce more films that resonate deeply with audiences.

Impact of Personal Life and Public Perception

Despite the film's success, Eisenberg maintains a grounded perspective on fame and its effects on personal life. He contrasts his own relatively private existence with the intense public scrutiny faced by peers like Kristen Stewart.

“[25:03] Jesse Eisenberg: I've been a known movie actor for 20 years, but the novelty wears off quickly. Most people don't have interest in my personal life, which keeps me grounded.”

This balanced view underscores his focus on creating meaningful art over chasing fame.

Conclusion

This episode of All Of It offers an in-depth exploration of Jesse Eisenberg's A Real Pain, highlighting the film's intricate blend of comedy and historical drama. Through candid discussions about his writing process, personal experiences, and the challenges of directing, Eisenberg provides listeners with a rich understanding of the film's creation and thematic depth. With A Real Pain garnering critical acclaim and multiple nominations, including Best Screenplay and Best Supporting Actor for Kieran Culkin, this episode serves as a testament to the power of storytelling in bridging personal history with broader cultural narratives.

Notable Quotes

• “[04:01] Jesse Eisenberg: I always write in an email form because I don't want to ever think of the thing as, like, going to need to be produced.”
• “[05:21] Jesse Eisenberg: I'm constantly just doing battle in my head with, like, the outgoing version of myself versus my instinct, which is to just walk into the corner of the room and face the wall.”
• “[15:24] Jesse Eisenberg: Standing outside the house my family lived in until 1939, I felt detached...”
• “[19:53] Jesse Eisenberg: I wanted to celebrate the work they do in turning a place of terror into a museum of education.”
• “[22:56] Jesse Eisenberg: With A Real Pain, I aimed to ensure the audience could connect and empathize with the protagonists despite their imperfections.”

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the essence of the episode, providing a thorough overview for those who haven't had the chance to listen.

Transcript

[Progressive Insurance]

All of it is supported by Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart choice. Make another smart choice with Auto Quote Explorer to compare rates for multiple car insurance companies all at once. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy.

[WNYC Studios]

Listener supported WNYC Studios.

[Alison Stewart]

This is all of It. I'm Alison Stewart. The Oscars are this weekend, so we are spending some time this week revisiting our conversations with some of the nominees. On Friday we'll talk to the costume designers from Gladiator 2 in Nosferatu, the makeup artist who created the body horror in the substance and the production designer from the vibrant, tulip laden set of Wicked and more. We also wanted to invite you to join team all of it for a little Academy Awards bingo. Check our Instagram and our website between now and the ceremonies on Sunday for instructions on downloading a bingo card. We've put together our handle islofit wnyc. Will any of the winners mention politics or salute the firefighters in la? Will anyone attempt an honora accent or a defying gravity riff? You know the one. Or will Conan show up in a cardinal outfit? From the conclave, we'll tune into the Oscars to celebrate this year's great movies, but stay for all the other stuff. So get your bingo card now from our Insta Olive NYC and tune in with us on Sunday evening at 7pm One of the nominees we'll be watching for is A Real Pain from writer, director and star Jesse Eisenberg. Jesse is up for best screenplay and his co star, Kieran Culkin is up for best supporting actor. In his script, Eisenberg really had a tough needle to thread. It blends the goofball personalities of a road trip buddy comedy with the seriousness of a Holocaust film. The pair at the center of the film are cousins. David is anxious, shy and solid. He's got a wife and a son he loves dearly. He's played by Jesse. Then there's his cousin Benji, played by Kieran Culkin. He's charming, gregarious and emotionally unstable. The two cousins are on a trip to Poland. Their beloved grandmother survived the Holocaust and they want to visit her hometown to get a better sense of their family roots. And that comes with trauma. But Benji and David are very different people. Here they are on a train in Poland.

[WNYC Studios]

We should just buy tickets like normal people.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

There's no time. Come on. We stay moving, we stay light, we stay agile. The conductor's gonna Come through taking tickets. We tell him we're going to the bathroom.

[WNYC Studios]

Bathroom.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

He gets to the back of the train, he's gonna start heading towards the front, looking for stragglers.

[WNYC Studios]

Sorry, were the stragglers?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah. By the time he gets to the front, the train's gonna be in the station or home free.

[WNYC Studios]

This is so stupid, man. What?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Stupid is the corporatization of travel, ensuring that the rich move around the world, propagate their latest loins, while the poor stay cut off from society.

[WNYC Studios]

That's great. We can argue Marxism when they're hauling us off to Siberia.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Siberia's in Russia, Dave.

[WNYC Studios]

This is ridiculous. Tickets are probably, like, 12 bucks.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

That's the principle of the thing. We shouldn't have to pay for train tickets in Poland. This is our country.

[WNYC Studios]

No, it's not. It was our country. They kicked us out because they thought we were cheap.

[Alison Stewart]

A Real Pain has won accolades from critics and viewers alike. When Kieran Culkin won Best Supporting actor at the BAFTAs, the SAG, and the Golden Globes, he said in at least one acceptance speech, I am here because Jesse Eisenberg wrote an incredible script. Eisenberg's screenplay was recognized with a BAFTA and an Independent Spirit Award and is nominated for an Oscar. So let's get into my conversation with Jesse Eisenberg. It had been reported that he wrote much of his film in emails. So I started by asking him how that helped him bring the script to life.

[WNYC Studios]

I mean, I've written, like, plays and essays for 20 years, and I always write an email form because I don't want to ever think of the thing as, like, going to need to be produced. I want to think of them more as, like, diary entries. It allows me to just be a little more creatively open minded than if I were to, you know, put it in some program that, you know, it feels like it's so presumptuous to put it in one of these script writing programs, you know, where it looks like, well, of course this would be made so. And so it allows me to, like, not censor myself. Sometimes the scripts are way too long because I'm not aware of, like, the formatting. But otherwise, it allows me to just write in a way that doesn't censor myself. The only problem is, like, I lose stuff a lot, like, because, like, I'll misplace something or not save something. And so, like, I'll lose stuff, but it's okay because if something's really great, it stays with you.

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, that's so interesting. So it really opens you up creatively, it sounds like.

[WNYC Studios]

Yeah. But I could also hear, you know, my parents saying, the fact that you're writing on a computer at all is, like, the least creative thing you could do. You should be, you know. And then their parents, of course, you know, used quills. So I, you know, there's something about a. You know, I'm not that far off from regular.

[Alison Stewart]

When you were. From the jump of the film, we learned that David and Benji are really different. They're like, really ID and SuperEgo. What happens in your mind when the ID and SuperEgo have to get along?

[WNYC Studios]

Yeah, I think about that kind of thing all the time of, like, I kind of straddle this weird world because I'm like a performer and I have a extroverted profession. But I'm like, so many actors shy. And a lot of actors are shy to the point where they only feel comfortable getting into the skin of another character. So there's this strange paradox of them being known publicly and having, you know, their intimate personal details displayed in public, while at the same time being incredibly shy, private people. And I'm certainly. I would certainly fall into all of those categories. And so I'm constantly just doing battle in my head with, like, the, you know, the outgoing version of myself versus my instinct, which is to just walk into the corner of the room and face the wall.

[Alison Stewart]

Like, it would have been good in a baby girl. She did.

[WNYC Studios]

Right. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Right.

[Alison Stewart]

When you were thinking about.

[WNYC Studios]

Sorry, I get the joke. Sorry. Yes, you're right. Yes.

[Alison Stewart]

Have you ever been on a trip with someone where you knew? I'm just not like this person. I'm traveling with this person that I. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[WNYC Studios]

The first time I left the country was to go with my wife to Venezuela. I was 18 years old, and my wife was like. My wife comes from, like, a left wing activist family, and she was curious about the president at the time. Chavez. At the time, he was not seen as that much of a dictator. In fact, he was seen as maybe doing good work for indigenous groups in Venezuela. And so I, like, left. I knew nothing. I mean, I didn't know where Venezuela was on a map. I didn't know that it was a country. But my wife said we were starting to date early. And she said, I'm going there this Christmas to go on a tour of Venezuela and to go to the Orinoco Delta, which is like this place on the water there, and you can come with me or not. And so I decided, okay, cool, I'm gonna go with this awesome person. And so we went there and she was just. She speaks Spanish too, so that was helpful. But also she was just like this. She would meet strangers and talk to them and she was communicating with indigenous people in some agreed upon language. And it was just amazing. We've traveled around the world together for the last 20 years and she is just so different than me. And people love her. And I could tell when I walk into a room, no one's really thrilled to have me there. I don't know, I bring in some kind of annoying energy, But I could tell with her, she just lights up a room and she goes into rooms of strangers and different things and every. Everybody just seems to like smile when she walks in.

[Alison Stewart]

You said you come into the room and people do what?

[WNYC Studios]

I could tell, I don't know what it is or how to control it, but I could tell. I kind of bring rooms down. I don't know if I seem cloying or anxious or unsure of myself and I could tell I ruin a lot of rooms I walk into. And by contrast, my wife, she just, she walks in late to places like unprepared, doesn't know what they're talking about, and everybody just seems to like warm to her. It's kind of this magical thing.

[Alison Stewart]

Well, you're doing fine in this room.

[WNYC Studios]

Thank you. Thank you, thank you.

[Alison Stewart]

So we meet these two guys, David and Benjamin, at the airport. Benji, excuse me. Why did you want to introduce the characters to us this way in the airport? Ready to go?

[WNYC Studios]

You know, I was very conscious of making a movie with these heavy themes. You know, they're on a heritage tour of Poland. It's a Holocaust themed kind of movie. And I just wanted the movie to feel as kind of like efficient, accessible, warm and inviting as possible to try to get away from what I felt was like just a very long trend of sanctimonious Holocaust movies that in some ways are telling a story, but also kind of like punishing the audience for not going through what their characters are going through. I just wanted to get away from that as much as possible. So I was just trying to make an efficient story as accessible that you meet these characters and the clip you just played shows their dialogue and their banter. Feels more like it's on a buddy movie than it does feel like. Than it feels like it's on some self important Holocaust tour. And so I was constantly just trying to figure out how to make this on the surface appear not shallow, but accessible while also talking about these bigger themes. And so you know, characters meet at the airport. We're already on the trip with them, you know, as opposed to, you know, an older style of movie probably would have, you know, set up the characters and their work lives and everything. But, you know, the great thing about, you know, having audiences that are so comfortable watching movies is they know shortcuts, you know, so they can see me walk into an airport with my bag, and they already know everything about me. They don't have to understand that I do this job and have this life. And same thing with Kieran's character. The movie is really a dissection of Kieran's character. And he's really kind of this unknowable kind of guy. And he's incredibly charming, but also has depression. And so it's a great way to introduce him, too, in public in this big setting.

[Kieran Culkin]

Let's take a listen to how Benji introduces himself and his cousin David to the tour group.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

So Davers and I are cousins. We've actually. We were born three weeks apart, which is kind of nuts.

[WNYC Studios]

Yes.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

A zloty for anyone who can guess which one of us is older. Our dads are brothers. We're basically brothers too. Wouldn't you say, Dave? We used to be joined at the hip, like, remember them?

[WNYC Studios]

Yeah, don't say that.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

But our Grandma Dory. Grandma Dory, she was from here, and we've always wanted to see where she came from and see the house that she grew up in.

[WNYC Studios]

Yeah. That's actually why we're leaving the tour a day early. Benji insisted on seeing her little town. They were super close.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I mean, she was the coolest. Right. I've just been, like, in a real funk, I guess, since she died. Just haven't. Yeah, sorry. She was just my favorite person in.

[WNYC Studios]

The world, you know, it's good to remember that's why we're here in a way.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

So thank you, James.

[WNYC Studios]

Thanks for saying that.

[Kieran Culkin]

There's so much in that clip, Justin saying, don't say that.

[WNYC Studios]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, don't say that. He's talking about these conjoined twins, you know.

[Kieran Culkin]

What did you want that introduction to tell us about Benji and David?

[WNYC Studios]

Oh, just the way they navigate groups. Like, you know, my character is, like, so mortified to even be existing in a group setting. Cause he just feels, you know, just mired in just the shame of his upbringing and his, you know, whatever. His stupid mind. And Benji, by contrast, just comes alive in a group. In fact, only comes alive, like, in a group. Like, that's his fuel, you know, you know. And David. It's David's. It's dav. David's most uncomfortable place to be. And they have to introduce themselves. I've been on some of these tours. We went to several countries where I do these group tours. And I see, again, it's like, sorry to bring up my great wife, but she's so cool. And she is remembering what everybody says around the group and tying it into her life, but not in a way that's self indulgent. And then I'm just so deeply uncomfortable with myself that I, in some ways, ruin the group dynamic because I'm trying to be respectful of the group. I bring it down because they can sense in me. I'm sure of it. They can sense in me that I don't have nice energy. Something like that.

[Kieran Culkin]

How did you decide on their names? David and Benji or Benjamin? It's, you know, they have special meaning in Hebrew.

[WNYC Studios]

Oh, that's so interesting. Do that. What is it?

[Kieran Culkin]

I believe David's, like, once beloved.

[Alison Stewart]

Right.

[Kieran Culkin]

And I believe Benjamin is the son of.

[WNYC Studios]

Oh, right. Ibn. Right. Oh, that makes sense. These are characters that I had actually kind of, like, written and two different plays. My first play that I wrote was called the Revisionist. I played a character named David who sneaks weed to Poland and stays with his second cousin. My third play is called the Spoils, where I played a character named Ben, who is kind of like this. So these were just characters that I had kind of been like, toying with in different media. I wrote a short story about these two guys going to Mongolia. These characters, I put them in the same room together. And then that was kind of the initial nugget for this script was that short story I wrote about these two guys, Benji and David, going to Mongolia together. And then it switched to be this Holocaust tour. But my background is acting, obviously, so I'm thinking like an actor all the time. So I've written many things, but I always have monologues that are discarded that are not in the final products because I'm thinking about the characters so much that I try to get in their voices so much before I actually write dialogue with them. So I could put these two guys in any situation. They're on a Holocaust tour, but I could put them in any situation, and I knew what their conversation would sound like.

[Alison Stewart]

Benjamin, son of the right hand.

[WNYC Studios]

Whoa.

[Alison Stewart]

Yes.

[WNYC Studios]

Son of the right hand. Pretty specific. Oh, okay, got it.

[Alison Stewart]

What do you think they were like as kids?

[WNYC Studios]

You know, I think the dynamic you see in the movie was, like, pretty similar to when they were kids, except in its pure form. So now as adults, we value things like David's stability and everything, but when they're kids, none of that stuff matters. So it's just that Benji is incredibly winning and charming and. And David's just kind of like, neurotic, as Benji says. Like, we went to sleepaway camp. He says, we went to Julie's sleepaway camp and I had to hug him to sleep and talk about his sweet mom every night just to get him to go to sleep, you know, because. And so I think. But now, like, David's kind of, like, medicated his OCD away and some of his anxiety, so he has a little more stability in his life. So we look at David as an audience as maybe having, like, just a little more, you know, normalcy. And Benji is still that winning, charming person, but maybe we look at it with a little bit of, like, what's going on underneath.

[Alison Stewart]

Well, I think the people in the tour group look at him like, that way.

[WNYC Studios]

Yeah, exactly.

[Alison Stewart]

At first, like, oh, he's so charming. And then when the dinner scene and he leaves the table, everybody's like, there's so much going on with him.

[WNYC Studios]

Yeah, exactly. And it's a love hate thing. Like, because he's so charming and because he's so feeling, it's impossible to not love him. There's one character in the movie who doesn't love him. But, like, for the most part, people feel a great sensitivity towards this guy, as do I. You know, I was writing the movie and feeling this. My heart was open to that character. And then in performing it too, like, even though he's kind of tormenting me for a lot of the movie, my heart was just so wide open to this person because you could see they're a bit of an open wound. So even though they're incredibly charming and gregarious, when they're sad, they're publicly and profoundly sad.

[Alison Stewart]

When was the first time that you visited Poland?

[WNYC Studios]

My wife and I went to Poland in 2008. Just kind of like backpacking through. Not on this guided tour that the characters do in the movie. The first thing we did was stay with my cousin Maria, who was a survivor of the war and stayed in Poland. And then the next thing we did was to try to go to the opposite side of the country, the southeastern part of the country, to see this little house that my family lived in up until 1939. It's actually the house that you see in the movie. The characters visit my family's actual house. And it Was kind of a weird non epiphany, actually. So we went to this house. It was before Google Maps. So we're like. It was a struggle to get to this town even, you know, and we finally get to this town and to this little house. And I'm standing outside this house that my family lived in up until they were like, you know, removed and killed. And I remember just like not feeling anything. I was just like, oh, I'm just standing outside this apartment. And it taught me a lot about the reality of trying to connect to your history and to your past in ways that are not satisfying. And it just occurred to me when I was writing this movie that I can kind of capture some of that irony, some of that anticlimactic quality of trying to connect to your past and not finding the connection where you expect it. Not finding the connection in a concentration camp, not finding the connection at the house. Actually finding more of a connection between your own past with your family member, which is what this movie is detailing. Me and my cousin. And my emotions are all tied up in my personal history with my cousin. Rather than trying to connect to a three story apartment building in the southeast of Poland.

[Kieran Culkin]

What was something that you learned about Polish history that you didn't know before?

[WNYC Studios]

I probably have like an overly sympathetic perspective on Polish history. You know, Poland was torn apart by both sides from the Germans and the Russians. And then prior to that, it was not a country. For a very long time. Up until 1918, it was not a country. And I also have again, maybe an outsized sympathy for Poland. During the war, the Nazis built their death camps on Polish soil, partly so that they don't have to deal with it, you know, so. And I just. And then the Russians came in and just really screwed up, screwed the Poles during this uprising of Warsaw in 1944. And the Russians just really just ruined them. And, you know, so I developed a really strong sensitivity towards Polish history that sometimes is in conflict, let's say, with some of my older relatives who look at Poland like, oh, they're anti Semites, look, that's where, you know, they were happy that Hitler. This is just not my experience at all. And the other just weird kind of interesting little anecdote is that we shot at all these places, including concentration camp, and all these memorials, and they're all run by these like, young academic people who like, you know, graduated with great college degrees and decided to spend their lives and their intellectual capital by working at these sites of horror. And I felt a great indebtedness and gratitude towards the people who. You know, again, these would be people in our country who are doing tours of American tragedies, you know, and you would say, wow, they're really doing amazing work. That's what these people in Poland are doing with Jewish history.

[Alison Stewart]

It's interesting because in the movie, Benji has an issue with how academic the tour guide is. And I've had that happen before where I've been like, excuse me, this is not Afro Disney. Why I'm in Africa. Why are you explaining this to me? Stop.

[WNYC Studios]

Oh, interesting. You've had that feeling before.

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, yeah. I don't know what that says, but I had that feeling. And I remember in the film, your character wants him to quiet down. Why does he want him to quiet down?

[WNYC Studios]

Because the way Benji's expressing himself is so caustic. I mean, that's the problem. It's really the. But also because I just would. I mean, it's interesting to hear you say that because you're a really nice.

[Alison Stewart]

I'm a nice person.

[WNYC Studios]

Yeah. So that was surprising to me because I guess I thought somebody who would do that on a trip. Well, did you yell at somebody or you just had this feeling?

[Alison Stewart]

No, I just had the face. Oh, well, that's why I just made the face.

[WNYC Studios]

Okay, got it.

[Alison Stewart]

Seriously, we're going to do this here.

[WNYC Studios]

Even that face as you're doing it to me now doesn't seem that severe, you know, But. But the interesting thing about Kieran's character is that he's pretty much right. All of his arguments are like, right. Well, that's. Yeah, but the way he expresses himself is so caustic. But the interesting thing that happens after he yells at the tour guide for being too academic is the tour guide comes to him later and says, you know, you changed my life. No one's ever given me actionable feedback. Now I think I'm gonna change the way I do my tours.

[Alison Stewart]

Right.

[WNYC Studios]

And Kieran's character goes, oh, really? What did I say? He has no recollection.

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, that's so hard. Before I leave Poland, two things. Did you have to. Well, I'm sure you had to get permission to film in the camps. Did you have to do anything special to film in the camps?

[WNYC Studios]

Yeah, we filmed in Majdanek, this concentration camp that's like five minutes outside this bustling college town called Lublin. And, yeah, it took a long time to. I use the word negotiate, which is a kind of crass word to talk about, really. Just kind of connecting with these people who work there. And for them to understand that my intentions were good. That I did not want to make a cool, exploitative movie where I'm going to have extras in Nazi uniforms running through their camp. No, I was trying to make a movie that celebrated the work that they do, which is turn this amazing place of terror into a museum of education.

[Alison Stewart]

Who did you see as Benji before you met Kieran?

[WNYC Studios]

I was originally gonna play that part.

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, really?

[WNYC Studios]

Yeah. I mean, if you read the script, you'll see that's like the fun part. He's fun, you know, he's like the character you'd wanna do in an acting class. Cause he says everything that's on his mind. When he cries, he's crying in public. When he's yelling, he's yelling in public. You know, he's the kind of, you know, it's the fun character. And so I was gonna act in that role and try to cast the character I played, David. And one of our prod is the unparalleled Emma Stone. She has a production company and so she has produced my two movies and is producing my third. She's an amazing producer and she just said, I would urge you to not play a character that's so kind of unhinged, spontaneous, while trying to direct. Because as a director, you're really trying to run a circus. You're accounting for schedules and having to put out little social fires, et cetera. And so to play this part that Kieran was playing would have been really tough. And Kieran was living in the spirit of this. He never rehearsed, he never wanted to talk about it. I don't. He memorized his lines the day of. And yet every take he was brilliant. I found out towards the end of the movie he was like sleeping two hours a night on his hotel room floor. And I think he was just like, living in the spirit of this character in a way that I think would have been impossible for me. And he's so great. He's better than I would have been. So I'm so lucky that I was, let's say, demoted by Emma Stone.

[Alison Stewart]

Was it hard to deal with someone living in the moment, living like Benji when you're the director?

[WNYC Studios]

It was hard because I didn't know if he knew his lines. So basically, he has the most dialogue in the movie and he's supposed to be rapid fire, like I, you know, like he and I both normally talk. And I didn't know if he knew his lines any day because he would ask me in the morning, what scene are we doing today? Which is like, not a thing. You want to hear your actors talk. And it's like, I tell him it's like the scene I thought of two years ago that I've been living with for two years, and you have five pages of a monologue on a train. And he would say, oh, cool, can I see the script? I'd show him the script. I just can't believe I'm having this conversation. And he would memorize it within two minutes and he'd be word perfect. So once I realized that this is just the way he works, that he's just some kind of unusual genius, then it was a joy to work with him. Then every day felt like, what is this guy gonna do today? I cannot wait to see it. And I told him too. I told him we had a scene together, and after the scene ended, I said, I heard all these stories of these lecherous male directors falling in love with their ingenues. You know, in the 30s, 40s, the Warner Brothers and stuff like that. And I was like, I think I feel that for you. Cause he was doing so good in my thing. I was just like, I feel you're just so amazing. I just was so grateful.

[Alison Stewart]

I think you came on the show when your directorial debut was when you finished Saving the World. What did you learn from that experience that was valuable to you on this show?

[WNYC Studios]

That movie wasn't received as well. Cause I think basically people didn't connect to the characters in a way I assumed they would. The acting was amazing. It starred Julianne Moore and Finn Wolfhard, two of the greatest actors in their generation, respective generations. But I think I had an assumption about how people would perceive the characters that was different than the way they were perceived. And it occurred to me that you have to do some. I don't know if the word is spoon feeding. You have to do some explication, some clarification that it's okay to love these characters who are flawed. And I didn't do that enough with that movie. My background is theater playwriting. And you don't have to do that as much in plays because you're not looking to. Plays are not really about audiences don't go to plays as much. Trying to follow this protagonist and relate to them. It's just a different kind of medium. And I didn't do that well enough with that first movie. And so it taught me a lesson to make it a little more clear that the audience is allowed to love these characters who are not being always their best selves.

[Kieran Culkin]

This movie has been Received so warmly.

[WNYC Studios]

Yeah.

[Kieran Culkin]

Congratulations, first of all.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Thanks.

[Kieran Culkin]

Yeah. How do you balance that with your life, with your kid, with your wife going to the grocery store? I mean, in the middle of this movie really blowing up and really affecting people's lives?

[WNYC Studios]

Well, it's interesting. Like, there's nothing I could do about it now. It's, like, totally done. So it's really. The onus is upon, like, the distribution company Searchlight, who was the best in the world at this kind of stuff, to make sure the movie is received well and seen by all the people who might have an interest in seeing this thing in terms of it being well received and that being helpful to me. It's just I want to make a movie every year, so I'm already doing my next movie. This being well received allows me, I'm sure, to make it two. You know what I mean?

[Kieran Culkin]

Oh, that's interesting.

[WNYC Studios]

And if they're not well received, then I maybe got to do something else or start at the drawing, go back to the drawing board. But I know I can make two movies from the success of this one because my movies are small and easy and I write quickly and I could act in them. So I already has actor involved. And so, like, I know I can get two from this. That's the way I think about it more than, like, how can I rest on today's laurels or something.

[Kieran Culkin]

How's it affect your real life, though, when you go get a cup of coffee?

[WNYC Studios]

Oh, I've been, like, a known movie actor for, like, 20 years, and, like, the novelty of that wears off so quickly. Yeah. I think that I don't know who said this or something, but it's like everybody wants to be famous until they are. And then it's just like this kind of, you know, you meet people on the street and some people are nice and some people, you know, it's kind of like 10 minutes late to do something. But my life is. I'm a pretty. No one really has interest in my personal life, so I'm okay. I was friends with Kristen Stewart for many years, and she would have, like, helicopters and stuff following her, poor thing. I don't have any of that kind of stuff. I just have the upsides of, like, occasionally I get a free cookie.

[Kieran Culkin]

Is there anything anybody has not asked you about this film yet that you just really wanted to shout out? Something that, like, you've been wanting to say?

[WNYC Studios]

No. Except, you know, the thing you brought up earlier, which we talked about a little bit, I just want to reaffirm it, which is that like for American Jews listening to this interview, of which there are probably many, many like? I wish you would understand what Poland is now and the work that people are doing there to memorialize our history and to turn perhaps your cynical the cynical reputation you might feel for Poland to something quite different. Because my experience was so hopeful and beautiful and wonderful and the people I met who are working there, non Jewish Poles, are doing us a great service.

[Alison Stewart]

That was my conversation with writer, director and actor Jesse Eisenberg. The film is called A Real Pain and it's nominated for Best Screenplay and Best Supporting Actor for Kieran Culkin at this year's Oscars.

[Progressive Insurance]

WNYC Studios is supported by Carnegie hall, which presents the American Composers Orchestra, featuring works by Alice Coltrane and Tanya Leon and premieres by Edmar Castaneda, Clarice Assad and more. March 10 [e-mail] Since WNYC's first broadcast in 1924, we've been dedicated to creating the kind of content we know the world needs. Since then, New York Public Radio's rigorous journalism has gone on to win a Peabody award and a DuPont Columbia Award, among others. In addition to this award winning reporting, your sponsorship also supports inspiring storytelling and extraordinary music that is free and accessible to all. To get in touch and find out more, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.