A (3:14)

John, what attracted you to this film, a very kind film about a young woman who finds connections with a stranger?

D (3:23)

Well, first of all, indie films are my favorite genre of art of film. It's the thing that got me started. It's the thing that fuels me. It's where all experimentation and beautiful films that are made about characters and respect character. It's not just made by committee and commercial success. And so I got this great script. I loved it. Tracy and I met at my favorite restaurant, Morandi, and we hit it off. I felt like we were like, you know, kin or something, you know, spiritual kin for sure. And, and I just love the subject matter. I mean, these two strangers being kind and respectful and decent to each other. I just feel like we're missing so much of that right now in this, in this new regime that is so divisive and so, you know, promoting hate constantly and fear mongering. I just to put something so beautiful and touching and, and you got to see it in community, you got to see it in a theater because hearing hundreds of people laughing and crying at the same time is life changing.

A (4:37)

Tracy, what did you think when this person that you didn't really know, you knew his name, but you didn't really know him, started liking your posts?

C (4:45)

Well, you know, for a split second I woke up to the notification with my dad's name. Likes it, right? And I was like, all right. My dad liked something of mine. We're back. You know, and, and, and I was. Then I looked and I'm like, oh, it's not him. You know, But I was like, but that felt so good. I kind of need that and, you know, healing and family, chosen family come in strange ways sometimes. So I knew I needed it. So I just thought, I'm just going to stay friends with him. And, and you know, it went on for years. And you Know, I'm still very close with. Gotten closer probably. So I think it was. It was just showing up for the healing that was happening, you know, and, you know, it'd be something as small as. Like, my dad never came to any of my screenings all these years, or never, you know, congratulated me on anything or. And yet this stranger would say, you know, I get a comment with my dad's name. Way to go, kiddo. You know, or. Or, you know, I got a little bullied when I cut my hair because I had really long hair and I shaved it during the pandemic. And, you know, there was. Some people were like, oh, why'd you do that? Or something, you know, and then. And then this one with this one comment, I think, you know, for my dad's name, I think it looks great, you know, and, you know, sometimes it only takes one positive comment in a sea of negativity, you know, it's like one person standing up against a bully, you know, just. Just. Yeah. And we think we don't have that power, but we absolutely do have power to make a difference.

A (6:00)

John, your Bob, he's hiding out a little bit. Doesn't seem to have a lot of friends. What. Why is he hiding?

D (6:09)

He's not. He's not hiding. He's. He's just a type of guy. He's just a regular guy, first of all. And such an exciting thing for me to play, just a regular, normal, nurturing, caring dude, because I get to play all the eccentrics and. Which I love, but it's nice to just be something that's a little closer to me, just a regular dude. And Bob is not hiding. He's just a. He's a loner. He's. He's not lonely, but he's sad. You know, we all have carried a lot of sadness and still function and still do great things in our lives, but I love that Tracy's capturing just a regular guy. Like, there's. Most of the world is filled with regular guys. You know what I mean? Not everybody can be exceptional, and there's no reason to always have to be exceptional. And I think. I love. That's what I love about Bob, is this regular, sad guy who functions and there's a need of. To nurture somebody. You know, he's childless, and he wants to nurture, and he takes Lily under his wing and. And gives her everything that was never given to him. You know, and even though they're strangers, you can still do that with your chosen family, your found family. And I think that's such a beautiful message that Tracy puts into the world, because that's who Tracy really is. I mean, Tracy is. Is one of the most kind, gentle, generous, giving, creative people that I have ever met. And it was such a joy to be in her presence and work with her.

A (7:36)

Let's listen to a film from Bob Trevino. Likes it. Facebook. Bob agrees to fix a toilet for Lily. She doesn't know who to call, so she calls him. And then they go to the hardware store for a plunger, and he sort of discovers that she doesn't exactly have what she needs in life. Let's take a listen.

D (7:55)

So what other basic necessities of life.

C (7:57)

Do you not have called education, health insurance, car?

D (8:05)

So in other words, you don't have any tools, huh?

C (8:08)

Not really, no.

D (8:11)

So if a problem arises, what do you use? I mean, how do you fix it? How are you even alive? All right, kid, come on. Are you sure you don't have the other type of flashlight? You know, the kind that you wind up zzz like that in case power goes out and she has to. You know, her phone dies and whatnot?

A (8:34)

I will make sure it's on the next shipment.

D (8:36)

Yeah.

A (8:36)

Yep.

D (8:38)

All right, so I have to get to next time, then. Yeah, no worries. No biggie. Hey, can you had the rest?

C (8:47)

Mm.

D (8:48)

I'll go get a card.

C (8:51)

Hi. You know, I think I'm gonna have to use a few cards, if that's okay. Oh, it's been taken care of. Your dad got it.

A (9:11)

That's from Bob Trevino. Likes it. Barbie Ferrier is playing Lily, by the way. So, John, what do you think Bob is getting out of this relationship with Lily?

D (9:22)

Oh, he's getting so much. These. These two people complete each other. You know, you find those friends in life that just, you know, just fill your life with all the things that were missing. You know, that's what community does. And Lily gives him a sense of importance. He feels like he's needed. You know, he's been needing that. He loves to have a place to give all his philosophies to and all his corny jokes to. He had nobody before, and that's what he needed. He needed that audience, and that's enough for him.

A (9:56)

You know, it broke my heart when he says, she doesn't have the tools, Tracy, because she doesn't have so many of the tools we discover over time.

C (10:08)

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think a lot about a plant that never gets to bloom because it's never watered. You know, we just sometimes, like when you grow up. Without these things, you just need a little bit of water and you can bloom. And there's so many people that just need somebody to see them and say, I care. I see your experiences and I'm, I'm gonna show up for you. And I feel like, look at how much Lily changes just from a little bit of kindness. It means everything. And, you know, this every day. There's magic in the everyday. You know, that's what I really. One thing I really like about this film is there's magic in someone buying some tools for you at the hardware store. There's real magic in that. You know, there's magic someone holding the door open for you or, you know, saying, are you okay? You know, I think this film really celebrates that.

A (10:49)

So French Stewart pays her dad, biological dad, and Tracy, you had, in a way, we have to kind of understand him. We don't have to like him, but we sort of have to understand where he's coming from. What traits were you going to give to this character? What direction did you give to the actor so that maybe we understand him a little bit?

C (11:12)

I think, you know, I never, I never try to judge. I don't really judge. I try not to judge in real life, and I definitely don't judge when I'm directing, you know, so, so even that character, I was always on his side. I had to be, you know, it hurt people. Hurt people. It doesn't mean that, that you shouldn't have boundaries or you should invite them in, you know, but I think we all had an understanding that he was hurt, you know, and we wanted the nuances in his performance and, you know, who knows what's next for him, you know, let's hope he figures it out, you know.

A (11:46)

John, what questions did you have for Tracy about her experience?

D (11:52)

Oh, my God, I had so many questions, and she answered all of them. I mean, Tracy had such an interesting life. I mean, her life is so fascinating in so many ways. I mean, to be estranged from your father. I mean, I mean, I also have father issues, so I, I really related and, and, and, and Barbie has as well. Not that I'm, you know, revealing something that she hasn't revealed already. So it was interesting. We, we had father issues. She went on online to look for a Facebook that. I find my father figures elsewhere. You know, I, I, I feel my father hunger with mentors and people in my life that give me that father that I never had. And then Tracy, I love that she also includes disabled people in all her work. I find that so powerful. And inclusive and dei. I love dei. And it's so important to be inclusive of everybody. Diversity is important and Tracy believes in that. And bringing Lolo on. Oh my God, her performance is so amazing. And she's disabled, but, you know, amazing.

A (13:09)

She's funny. In Secret Lives of a College Girl. She's hilarious.

C (13:11)

Yes.

A (13:13)

What was something, John, that Tracy told you as a director, which really stayed with you, that you were able to really use in your performance?

D (13:25)

Wow, these are, these are great questions.

C (13:28)

No pressure. No pressure, John.

D (13:30)

Yeah, well, you know, you know, we were trying to make a really complex character together, me and Tracy, you know, because it, because it was, it's, it's. It's not as easy to play just a regular guy, you know, play yourself. It really isn't. I mean, if everybody thinks, oh, he's just being yourself, it really isn't because you have to also come up with the shades. And me and Tracy really talked about his sadness and, and how to keep that alive, you know, so he's a regular dude, but he carries this sadness. And I felt that was also really important. Me and Tracy worked on every scene to make sure that we mapped that out, you know, not in a heavy handed way, but just it was there infiltrating. And through osmosis, you pick it up.

C (14:12)

And I found it so amazing that John was able to be such a kind Bob, you know, our Bob. I feel like he's all of our Bob now, but not a saint, you know, he can't be a saint.

D (14:24)

Right, right.

C (14:25)

That's not interesting. Right. And so, so it's to play a good guy and make him so interesting and so relatable and so real. That was, it was in kind of the nuances of that and the struggle with, with what he's dealing with internally.

D (14:37)

I think too, Tracy, he's not a funny guy. He's a corny guy. And you know, I mean, and we love those corny, you know, there's always so hopeful because I guess they don't see that other people are judging them.

C (14:52)

Such a sweet innocence.

A (14:55)

I was really curious about. Also with the pacing of it. Well into the film, Lily has to make a decision about whether she wants to, let's say, talk to her biological dad or engage with him. We'll say. And she does, she decides to go for it. What brought Lily to that moment when she decides, I really don't have anybody, I. I have to talk to my.

C (15:20)

Biological dad in my experiences, you know, it's kind of, in a way, it's kind of, like, I imagine or what I've heard about, like, leaving a cult or something, you know, like. Like, they have your. Their hooks in you. And so as you're healing you, you with. From a relationship with a narcissist or someone who's abusive or toxic, they do have their hooks on you. So as much as he's healing and growing, it's still. That's still what she knows. And what you don't know is scary. And is it gonna stick around? Is what you don't know gonna stick around, or is it gonna. So I think she's still in this space kind of in the midpoint of the film and trying to figure it out. And sometimes people go back many times before they finally leave.

A (16:02)

John, Facebook Bob. He doesn't know a lot about her backstory, but he jumps into the friendship. Why doesn't he want to know more? Initially.

D (16:17)

I think sometimes you just want to be respectful of people's privacy, you know, meet people where they're at. And sometimes you can. You don't need to know all that history. You just need to know the people in the moment that you're speaking to them. I'm kind of like that a lot. You know, I don't always pry into people's past unless I'm doing research. Then I'm incredibly snoopy and nosy. But in real life, I like to, like, meet people where they're at as well. You know, just who are you right now? And. And what. What do you want me to see? What are you presenting as? And I'm cool with that.

C (16:55)

I think there's an emotional reciprocity, too. That's really nice because, you know, she shares, then he shares. And if you're not used to it, it's almost like he's sharing to make her comfortable, like, oh, you were vulnerable. So here, I'll give you something, too, so we can. You're not alone in that, you know, it's interesting.

A (17:09)

So I want to play this clip from Bob Trevino likes it. It's when Lily is kind of. You said that you're her dad, but you're not her dad, and she gets called out on it. Let's take a listen.

D (17:22)

Okay. Listen, kid. I've always, always used protection, okay? And I haven't touched another woman since I met Jeannie. How old are you?

C (17:32)

I'm 25.

D (17:33)

25. Was your mother the estate lady? I messed around with my mom?

C (17:37)

No, no, she wasn't.

D (17:38)

It was the adjuster who came to my house to assess the truck when I wrecked Bob.

C (17:42)

No, it's nothing like that.

D (17:45)

No.

C (17:46)

I may have let Daphne believe that you were my dad.

D (17:53)

Why'd you let her think I was your dad? I'm not your dad. You understand? I need you to understand that. That I'm not. I'm not your dad. I'm nobody's dad.

C (18:04)

You don't have to be so mean about it.

D (18:06)

I'm. I'm not being mean. I'm just a little upset. I just need you to understand that I'm not your father.

A (18:14)

I know, but you.

C (18:17)

You talk to me and you listen and you give me advice and you liked all my posts.

D (18:24)

I'm sorry if there was a misunderstanding, but that was not my intent. Come on, come on. Where you go? Where you going? Where you going? Come on, Lily.

A (18:31)

Tracy. It's such an important scene in the movie that you can have a fight but still be friends, ultimately.

C (18:38)

Yeah. It was a big realization for me in life, too.

A (18:41)

Yeah.

C (18:44)

Major. You know, you don't always. Not all of us grow up with that, you know, so. Yeah, and it's amazing. I, you know, we tried to show, you know, their triggers. Lily gets triggered, you know, there. She has a lot of symptoms, and she gets triggered by abandonment, by feeling like she failed or the disconnection with people, things like that. But there's also glimmers, you know, these kind of positive triggers, for lack of a better word, and those kind of come with Bob. They come with these realizations that the way that you are taught isn't the way it has to be. And there are other people that won't treat you that way. And that can be very, very, very shocking for. For someone who's grown up in an environment like our character or me. John.

A (19:25)

You know, some people would think this is kind of weird, like a grown man and this woman and they meet on Facebook and their friends. Even Bob's wife is like, what's the deal? She wants money from you. I mean, why do you think. Why do you think people have such an aversion to people meeting on social media?

D (19:49)

I mean, because everybody focuses on the negative aspects of social media. You know, catfishing and. And people being seduced on. On. On. On social media. But I find. I find social media is. Is just a tool. It just depends on the people on the other side, what they. If they have a good intention or evil intention or a bad intention. But that happens in real life too.

C (20:14)

Anyway.

D (20:14)

That happens in bars. That happens in all situations. I think we all have to be super smart about who we're getting involved with. But I thought Lily did it, all right? She met him during the day at a cafe. You know, it's all the things you're supposed to do to stay safe. And they always met, you know, during the day in public places for the most part. And he wasn't. He didn't have ulterior motives. He was a happily married man. You know, he wasn't looking to stray. He was looking to be a father. You know, he was like, he just rented dad.

A (20:48)

We're not gonna give away any spoilers from here on. I'll stop there, but I'll ask both of you, and I'll ask you to first, Tracy. You know, there's been such an uptick in loneliness in our culture and how people just feel alone a lot. What does this film say about loneliness and the cure for it?

C (21:10)

Yeah, I think. I mean, social media started to connect us, and now it's being used to divide us. And the pandemic. We're still in kind of this. All these effects from the pandemic and being so isolated, and our country is divided. And I think we are told every day that we're so different. We're all so different. And this film. Look at these. Are all the people from all walks of life coming together, you know, through small acts of kindness. And when we're in that theater, you know, together, laughing and crying and loving these wonderfully, wonderfully lovable characters, we are not all so different. We see that. We feel that in that room. And so that's. That's something I really hope for the film, is that people just get to the theater and have that experience, because I just hope it's a reminder that we're not isolated, we're not alone, and we. We're all. None of us are perfect. And that's okay. We all need each other, and we actually can have if we just show up.

A (22:05)

John, what do you think?

D (22:07)

You know, definitely social media and the digital revolution has caused a lot of loneliness because we spent a lot more time like this one on zooms, on our Instagrams, on Facebook. We're on our computers. So there's a lot of loneliness because we're. We're seduced by our phones and technology, and we're not in community. We're not hanging out. We're not spending time with other people. And that creates a huge amount of loneliness, especially for our young people who don't know how to break out of it or create social opportunities. It's difficult. It's difficult. And that's why that movie talks to us right now in the moment that we're going through.

A (22:43)

Bob Trevino Likes it is now streaming on Hulu. We've been speaking with actor and comedian John Leguizamo, and writer director Tracy Lemon. Paste magazine calls Valerie June casually masterful, deceptively mellow. Up next, we hear her perform a few songs from her latest album, Owls, Omens and Oracles, which is a celebration of joy and positivity in the face of adversity.

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