Jordan Rakai (2:25)

Definitely. We're hoping to come for sure at some stage this year. It's all getting wrapped up but I'm really excited to finally be coming back to the States for the first time in about five years now. So yeah, super excited.

Kusha Navadar (2:37)

So you know, question on air. Not to put pressure on you, but when you do come to New York, would you be willing to come to WNYC Studio 5, maybe do a live performance? We can hang out a little bit together, talk about your music.

Jordan Rakai (2:46)

What do you think? Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Any track you want me to play, any setup, we'll do it for sure. Yeah. Be grateful to.

Kusha Navadar (2:54)

Well, I am happy to say that my persistence has paid off because sitting across from me now at the piano is Jordan Rakai to play a special live performance from his album the Loop, which is now out and available everywhere. And listeners, I promise you he is here by choice. Hi, Jordan. Welcome to wnyc.

Jordan Rakai (3:11)

Hey, how's it going? How's it going?

Kusha Navadar (3:13)

So happy that we get to meet and I get to get to hear you play. Let's start right away with a performance. We're gonna hear you play Learning, right? Anything you want to say about the song or you just want to dive in?

Jordan Rakai (3:22)

Yeah. So this track about me learning, I guess, about things of the world and imparting that knowledge onto my child. So, yeah, it's about being a parent. Here it is.

McDonald's Employee / Singer (3:44)

When all the people of the world have a dream and they've always longed to live in meritocracy and the leaders of the free all know who they claim to be still one of those sad, sad mysteries we so borders classified all those foreign lands In a war where families bled right through those summer sands so to keep one's soul alive they must conquer and divide with no apologies to rectify the state of mind if my head gets sore it feels easy to run away from the rest of the world with my secrets if my knees get tired I'm still searching for space Right near between the lines for the learning, learning spaces here for love Give it up, give it up I see struggles every day for a comedy it's like there's people here for living and some for grief There's a ladder to the sky where the dreams are left to pass still find only those who fail to make their steady climb Mm, can we see beneath the flowers and the masquerade In a war where families bled right through the summer day In a circle we called life where we face a steady climb with no apologies to rectify the state of mind if my head gets sore it feels easy to run away from the rest of the world with my secrets if my knees get tired I'm still searching the space right there between the line Amazing. For the learning, learning spaces here for the Give it up, give it up no no space is here for the Space is here for the. Give it up, give it. Learning, learning.

Kusha Navadar (7:05)

Beautiful. That was Jordan Rockay performing his song Learning. It's from his new album, the Loop. And Jordan's here to talk about the album and obviously play for us now that song. Jordan, you talk a lot things. There's borders, meritocracy, corruption, war. Where did that come from for you?

Jordan Rakai (7:25)

Well, I was thinking about when people become parents. There's a lot of people that firstly refuse to have kids or feel guilty about bringing children into the world. And so I thought about that concept a lot and about the harshness of the world that we have already and the problems that's going on. And it just made me reflect on, I need to educate. As much as I'm trying to teach my child certain things, I need to educate myself on those things as well so that I can sort of be a reflection of the world to my child and try and teach him in the best way possible. So I was just exploring things that make me feel sad and, you know, hopefully the world can change. But, yeah, I'm trying to reflect that to my child.

Kusha Navadar (8:09)

What is the reflection that you want to be to your child?

Jordan Rakai (8:13)

It's a good question. It's tricky because I don't want to blind them to what's going on and just be a pure optimist. But at the same time, I want to filter. I'm trying to harness that really childlike curiosity and freedom and happiness and exploration that young children have. And I think a lot about all children at some point in their lives, sort of get hit by life. And I'm trying to, in a way, preserve that as long as possible, so sort of be a barrier, but also at the same time, try and teach him about certain things.

Kusha Navadar (8:45)

Does that sense of, like, wanting to preserve the joy and the reflection, do you find sense you've had a child that shows up more in your music, too, in your musicality, trying new things?

Jordan Rakai (8:54)

Something like that, Definitely. I mean, he was a massive influence in Sense of me playing a bit more, playing with myself in the studio, exploring territories with no judgment, sort of doing something really fun, doing something really emotional and vulnerable. It's sort of like I had no more judgment anymore or ego in the creative process, because you see this baby on the other side of the room that's just present. You know, they just don't have any. They don't think anything. They're just laughing or playing or throwing things. And I just wanted to go into the studio and explore like, that Child as well, the inner child, I guess.

Kusha Navadar (9:25)

And how does that show up in the album on the other side of it? Is there a place where you're like, oh, I play a lot right here. That's something that might, you know, that influenced me definitely.

Jordan Rakai (9:33)

There was a track we were in the studio called Trust actually, where we were playing and we were jamming and we were all really laughing. It was all an improvised jam and we were just really laughing like kids in like a high school rehearsal. And part of me was thinking, oh, is this too traditional? Is this too, you know, basic funk song? But everyone was like, we're laughing. Let's really lean on the feeling that we have right now. Rather than like the. The analytical mindset of music making. Unless this the childlike expression of just having fun, playing anything, really laughing, playing percussion, having just a good time. And that's what sort of childhood reminds me of, of just freedom and running around.

Kusha Navadar (10:10)

I wonder if discipline is also a part of it. I mean, when you were an early parent, did you find it harder, like just because of time to sit down and write?

Jordan Rakai (10:19)

Definitely, yeah. I used to write in that little 30 minute nap that he would have in the middle of the day. I'd put him down and quickly run over to my piano and try and write a chorus. And then he wakes up on the baby monitor. I'm like. So it taught me a lot about, like, efficiency and like prioritizing my time whenever I had it in the studio to just try and pump something out as fast as I could.

Kusha Navadar (10:38)

I mean, speaking of prioritizing time, I'm looking at the clock. I want to make sure that we get to our next song that you've got for us. So you've got Flowers that you want to play. This is from your new album. Maybe a quick story of how you wrote the song and then go into it.

Jordan Rakai (10:51)

Yeah. This song's Flowers. It's about my wife and watching her be a mother sort of just made me fall in love with her more and remember all the stories we have in our relationship. So here we go with Flowers.

McDonald's Employee / Singer (11:04)

Said it twice now I know it could. When I looked into your eyes for the first time I had seen the better heart for me Now I say I never can be the bearer of bad news. Cause my heart spurged all the blues it's the simple things I see you, It's a game, a show and chill with my hands laid bare this woe all the scars are compelled but you take them in yourself in a wave While I drift to sea feel the weightlessness of me on a shoulder to which I leave all my life I waited a few my days with your hours cuz time in a world that's hours felt worth it to plant all the flowers cuz all my days I'd spend all alone when open it left me my patience said fine and left me by the grace of your heart you said ready six words that'll never leave cause I love you too you know near the bells of the eastern zone many miles away from home in a wave while I drift to sea feel the weightlessness of me on a shoulder to which leave all my life I waited to fill my days with your hours cause time in a world is always felt worth it to plant all the flowers cause all my days I'd spend all alone hoping to me my patience have finally left me by the grace of your heart you said ready all my life I waited a few more days with your hours cuz time in a world that's hours felt worth it to bl the flowers cuz all my days I spend all alone when hope it's left me my patience have finally left me by the grace of your heart you said ready.

Kusha Navadar (14:24)

That was Jordan Rakai. The album is the Loop. We have to go to a quick break, but when we come back we'll talk more about the album itself, what it's like touring and hearing it live. And then we'll have one more song for you. This is all of it. Stay with us. This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Kusha Navadar in for Alison Stewart and we are lucky to be live in the studio with Jordan Rock eye, the musician and vocalist. He's here. We got him to come over after we last talked to him in April for a live performance of his songs from his new album the Loop, which is out now. And you know, Jordan, when you last spoke with us about a month before the album came out. Cut to now. It's about a month after the album came out and I'm wondering, have you been taking in the music differently now that it's out in the world and the public can hear it?

Jordan Rakai (15:21)

It's funny, on release day there is a feeling that changes when now this little secret is everyone's. Everyone's possession, I guess, and you lose ownership of it becomes like the world's album. At first it was like yours. So I still feel as proud and as happy as I was back then, which is usually rare when you release an album. You're onto the next thing but for me, I'm really proud of this record.

Kusha Navadar (15:45)

You know, it's amazing how personal like this is a pivotal moment in your life, almost a liminal moment from before you became a parent to now. Has the reaction of anyone out there listening really touched you in a way that you weren't expecting?

Jordan Rakai (15:59)

Yeah. What's been amazing is a lot of parents have messaged me and talked about, you know, now they see their child and they hear this song or that song reminds me of their parents or something like that. And I find that's really sweet because sometimes my music in the past has been groove based or party based. But it's nice to hear these really long stories that people message me on Instagram, Twitter, or email me and say, you were in the room when my wife gave birth. You know, that sort of thing. It's really special, actually, to be part of those moments in other people's lives.

Kusha Navadar (16:28)

Were you expecting when you wanted to become a professional musician that this would be a part of the job?

Jordan Rakai (16:32)

No. Sometimes even when I was making this album, I write a really personal, vulnerable song and then I finish it and I'm like, oh, no, this is gonna have to come out now. And I have to release it. Cause it really is like an outpouring, journal style of thing. So, yeah, I'm very much like a. I'm a novice when it comes to being an artist. I'm more of like a songwriter in my little den, in my studio.

Kusha Navadar (16:52)

How is it affecting you? How, like, are you like, oh, I want to lean into this aspect of my artistry or anything else.

Jordan Rakai (16:59)

I feel like it's funny. The more vulnerable I've been later in my career, especially on this album, I actually feel more empowered to make it more like, of a public thing. I love talking about my child or my own childhood and things I went through or my relationship with my parents or my brothers. It's funny because those sorts of things are really personal. But I like the public element of being an artist and talking about it because then people share with me their stories. Like, when you open up, other people open up. And so I feel like it's a superpower to be able to connect with people like that. I feel very lucky.

Kusha Navadar (17:32)

Let's talk about the name the Loop. I mean, during the break, we mentioned your son. Can you say his name? And then how you decided on the name for your son and the name for the Loop?

Jordan Rakai (17:39)

Yeah. So. Well, so the Loop, the name for the Loop is about. It's about the cycle of life, really. Like, we're all just children. We potentially have children, if that's what you want to do. And they all have children, and we're just part of this big rolling reveal. But I mentioned to you, choosing a child's name is. It is like choosing an album name because it lives forever. And, like, you sort of ruminate for ages and, like, oh, is this the right thing? You know, and it's. It's a stressful time as. As a parent choosing an album name and a baby name, so I had to do it at the same time. Basically. It was like, the hardest decisions of my life, all in, like, a space of a few months.

Kusha Navadar (18:15)

And what was the name that you landed on for your son?

Jordan Rakai (18:17)

Jude. Yeah.

Kusha Navadar (18:18)

And how are you feeling about it on the back?

Jordan Rakai (18:19)

Yeah, I feel good. I feel no regrets.

Kusha Navadar (18:22)

And the loop. Feeling good about that?

Jordan Rakai (18:23)

Yeah, still feeling good about it.

Kusha Navadar (18:25)

You know, the loop, you're able to play it live. What are you looking forward to now about playing this live on tour as compared to, you know, producing a studio?

Jordan Rakai (18:32)

Yeah, well, I can't wait, because a lot of the takes on the album are live takes with the band, so it sort of is meant to be on stage, this sort of record, like, interacting with the crowd, having a very, like, open arrangement vibe. Whereas, like, sometimes in the past, you can, like, build this perfect show and at specific moments, things happen. But I like going into this next tour feeling quite open in, like, sort of an improvised nature. And leaving that openness for the band allows us to have, like, fun every night, like that childlike thing we're trying to, like, rekindle. So I'm excited to every night be a different sort of show and. Yeah. See where it takes us.

Kusha Navadar (19:07)

When I listen to you, I hear this theme of openness, which is a word you just said. And I find it very beautiful that when your family was growing, you named your son, and now your next album with people's reactions to it, it feels like your community connection is growing as well, which is a really interesting parallel track there.

Jordan Rakai (19:23)

Yeah, it's true. I never really thought of it like that, but I think, yeah, when you being open and life's too short, I think because I've spent a lot of my teenage years and early twenties being quite guarded emotionally. And I found when I started opening up, even to my wife or my parents or my brothers or friends, the world started opening up as well. So I'm trying to get that into my music and, like, spread the good vibes. Yeah.

Kusha Navadar (19:49)

Another element that I love about your story is you've said in the past that film scores really inspired you on this album. And, you know, we're movie nerds at all of it. I'm wondering, do you have a favorite film score or one that, like, stands out in your mind right now?

Jordan Rakai (20:05)

Yeah, there's an indie film called under the Skin with Scarlett Johansson. It's amazing. It's an amazing movie. It's really abstract movie, but the film score is. It's just the most unique string arrangement and evocative. Scary. It's amazing. And that's very inspiring in general, just the way they arrange the strings. I think it's Mika Levy as the composer. The way she arranged strings on that movie is just haunting.

Kusha Navadar (20:32)

Haunting. So that's what you like about it.

Jordan Rakai (20:33)

Is that it's like emotion. Yeah, it's very haunting. And non. What's the word? Non traditional way of doing a classic string arrangement. It's the way it's been manipulated is very scary.

Kusha Navadar (20:44)

If you were going to score a film, would you want to do a haunting score? Something in like a Marvel movie that's big and boisterous and heroic? Have you ever thought about that?

Jordan Rakai (20:56)

I have, actually. And I thought the biggest challenge would be to actually compose for a comedy. Because comedy is not really known for the musical side of it. It's like very script led or like, usually when there's comedic music, like on Curb youb Enthusiasm, it's like a stereotypical, like, trombone or tuber. Like, I would be really interesting to try and attack the comedy scene with like, a different mindset. I don't know what that would sound like, but that would be a massive challenge to try and make something feel haunting.

Kusha Navadar (21:23)

Listen, stay with me here. A comedy with haunting music.

Jordan Rakai (21:26)

Yeah, like the juxtaposition.

Kusha Navadar (21:28)

That'd be quite cool with a sad trombone. You know, I'm thinking about technology today because I'm really interested in AI and I know that you do a lot with talking about music education and, you know, with technology, it's possible to make a perfect sounding music. Meaning you can use software to make every instrument sound. Exactly right. But for you, I'm interested in finding out how technology could help you preserve that, like, human element. If you think that's the important use of technology right now.

Jordan Rakai (21:58)

Well, that's a good question. Well, in the studio, actually, when we were recording and when we were tracking everything through all, like the older 60s, 70s equipment, we were really embracing actually the imperfection side of things to try and. To try and keep that human spirit alive. Because like you said, you can Go through and edit every single instrument. You can mix the guitar and the piano so perfectly that they just sit perfectly, and everything feels, like, so clean. But I'm worried. Like, I think what people really connect with in music, talking, going back to the openness thing, is hearing the human side of it. Like, hearing those imperfections, hearing a guitar take where the person trips up a little bit, or hearing the vocal that's not perfectly in pitch, and then they feel like right there in the room or that sort of thing. So technology, in the sense of recording technology, we can really use to create that imperfections. But in the sense of AI, I actually, yeah, it's tricky because I feel. I feel a little bit scared as a musician in the world of AI, where, like, our jobs are on the line, so. But I love also the AI, the whole wave of AI. I'm sort of in a weird middle ground where I'm trying to work out what I feel, how I feel about it.

Kusha Navadar (23:13)

But are you using AI in your work right now?

Jordan Rakai (23:14)

No, I have never used it, but I have lots of friends that have used it with, like, soundscapes and then putting other stuff on top. And it's like a collaborative piece of music, but which I find really interesting, but I personally haven't used it yet.

Kusha Navadar (23:27)

That. That element, I mean, what you're describing about people making mistakes during the session, and then you hear that jazz, is that a lot like live jazz performance? You're gonna hear that for you. Do you preserve any mistakes in your final cut of a song?

Jordan Rakai (23:41)

Yeah, well, we did a lot in this new album, and sometimes the old me would listen back and be like, we need to change the second verse. That's. I might miss my phone call. But actually, weirdly, everyone in the room, including me, whenever we heard a mistake, actually, we were sort of like, oh, that's a nice human moment. Let's keep that. It was like a weird mindset, but it was never any crazy train wrecks, but a little bit of a slip on the groove or like the guitarist missing the note it just made. We wanted the listener to feel like we're humans playing this sort of thing. So humans make mistakes. I guess that's the macro analogy of it all is like, sorry, metaphor is like, we're not perfect.

Kusha Navadar (24:18)

And it sounds like another element of the reflection that you want to be for your son or for anything there. Like, we were talking about that joy and that authenticity and finding it, but also imperfection sounds like it's part of it, too.

Jordan Rakai (24:29)

Exactly. Yeah. And it's Even something I'm trying to teach. I mean, he's sort of too young to be playing music, but when he's, like, even banging on a drum or playing on his little ukulele, I'm not sitting there going, don't do it like that. You need to play. You know, I just want him to explore each instrument and just. That's sort of what I was trying to do in the studio. Just tinker around on the grand piano and see what came out.

Kusha Navadar (24:47)

I mean, speaking of tinkering on the grand piano, it's a perfect segue because I'm looking at the clock. I want to make sure we get to our last song. I'm going to say goodbye and then I'm going to let you have the last note on this interview. So I've been speaking with Jordan Rakai. His new album is called the Loop, and he's been in studio for a special live performance of a few songs. And as we go out, we're going to finish with just one more. But first, Jordan, thank you so much for coming in. Thank you for joining us. I really appreciate it.

Jordan Rakai (25:10)

Thank you so much for having me. It's so nice we managed to make this work two months later, a treat. And yeah, this. This track is called Trust from my new album the Loop. And it's a. It's the fun track I was talking about in the studio where we were embracing that. That childlike energy. Here we go.

McDonald's Employee / Singer (25:33)

You keep on running from the danger though I can see it's in your head every time that you feel rush of blood your heart turns to still you keep on fighting all these reasons and though I can see you've lost your faith if the noise that you brace the discourse that leaves a bit of taste oh no trust but make it real for me Everybody falls into it everybody makes mistakes living out the fantasies, love but make it real for me Everybody falls into it sometimes make mistakes living out the fantasy you keep on finding all these reasons though I can see you've lost your fate all the noise that you brace the disc constantly a bit of taste though you keep trying to be faithful when they keep pushing me away all the noise that you praise discord oh no trust but make it real for me Everybody falls into it everybody makes mistakes living out the fantasies, love but make it real for me Everybody falls into it sometimes make mistakes living out the fantasies trust but make it real for me Everybody falls into it everybody makes mistakes living out the fantasies, love but make it real for me Everybody falls into it sometimes make make mistakes. Living out the fantasies.

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Casual Speaker / McDonald's Customer (28:53)

I'm going to put you on, nephew.

McDonald's Employee / Singer (28:54)

All right, unc. Welcome to McDonald's.

Jordan Rakai (28:56)

Can I take your order, miss?

Casual Speaker / McDonald's Customer (28:57)

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