← All Of It with Alison Stewart
All Of It with Alison Stewart
Josh O'Connor is an Art Thief in Kelly Reichardt's 'The Mastermind'
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- [00:09]
A
This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Look, over the weekend, there was a theft from the Louvre in Paris. Seven minutes they were in and out. If only the protagonist of the new film, the Mastermind, were as good as his job. It's 1970, and JP concocts. JB concocts a scheme to rob a local art museum in broad daylight, stealing four paintings. You see, he's kind of in a rut. JB dropped out of art school. He isn't really working. He seems distant from his wife and two kids. The plan seems like a chance to change things, and it does. The Mastermind is a heist movie that only Kelly Reichardt could make. Humorous, grounded, beautiful to look at, and tremendously acted by Josh o', Connor, who plays jb. It's in theaters now. I'm joined now by writer and director Kelly Reinhart. It's nice to see you.
- [01:04]
B
Nice to see you. Nice to see you.
- [01:04]
A
And also joining us via Zoom is Josh o'. Connor. Nice to meet you, Josh.
- [01:08]
C
Hello. How's it going?
- [01:09]
A
It's going well. Kelly, how did you decided you wanted to make a film centered around a heist?
- [01:16]
B
I found a. Hi, Josh. I found an article where it was the 50th year anniversary of some high school girls that got caught up in a heist in Worcester, Massachusetts. They were going into the museum to do some homework and got swept up. And so that was kind of a starting point.
- [01:36]
A
Josh, we don't know too much about jp, jp, JB in his past, but he seems like he's decided this is a good idea to engage in this heist.
- [01:47]
C
Sure. Yeah, he's decided it's a great idea. And. And really, he's sort of consistently. Sorry. He consistently thinks it's a great idea until. I mean, really. I don't know, Kelly, what you think. I don't. I don't know if he ever doubts his idea, even at the end, but yeah, that's right. He's convinced that this is going to go very, very smoothly.
- [02:11]
A
What conversations, Josh, did you have with Kelly about his life leading up until that moment?
- [02:19]
C
Well, you know, you know, Kelly and I, we chatted around the script a lot, but, you know, those sorts of things are really kind of like a personal choice. I think more often than not, it's sort of like partly because, you know, Kelly obviously wrote the movie and I often find, you know, in on previous jobs, I really go into depth, into like, where they come from, what their background is, their kind of early experiences. But it's really sort of like for me and I've become wary of sharing that with the. With a director because often it's sort of like not what they'd imagined at all. And it might not be helpful to the story, but it's kind of helpful to me. So Kelly and I talked a lot around the time and shared lots of documentaries and images, but that, that part was a more personal thing.
- [03:11]
B
We learned that James went to art.
- [03:13]
A
School, that he talks about building furniture but doesn't actually do it. Kelly, why do you think he's in.
- [03:19]
B
Sort of a creative rut? Oh, I don't know if he's in a creative rut. I just think he's not the most. I think he wants something to happen for him without having to do too much. So I don't know if he's in a.
- [03:34]
A
Would you say he's a little lazy?
- [03:36]
B
Well, you know, I think he's like a lot of people of his era. I think he's rebelling against his middle class life and his parents. And yet he's a little bit reliant on both. And so, I don't know, he's blowing it up a bit.
- [03:57]
A
What did you have to learn, Josh, about art thieves and art theft? Did you do any research?
- [04:04]
C
Oh, no, I mean, you know, I don't think Mooney did any research. So if he didn't do any research, then I'm certainly not. No, I mean, you know, I think. Well, first of all, you know, reflecting on the last few days, this is a very different operation to what's gone on in the Louvre. I think, you know, JB is sort of. Well, first of all, it's a different time. And actually, you know, going into a museum, you know, if you've ever read about heists in that period or seen any documentary about the Isabella Gardner Museum, which we. Is sort of quite prevalent, you know, it was an easier thing to do. So it wasn't completely outrageous that he thought he would, you know, might get away with it. And he knit. He sort of nearly did if, you know, if the other guys didn't, you know, get it wrong. So. So the research was just as much as the character would do, which is not. Not an awful lot.
- [05:01]
A
My guests are writer and director Kelly Reichardt and actor Josh o'. Connor. We're talking about their new movie, the Mastermind. It's about a man who decides to steal paintings from a local museums. It's in theaters now. Kelly, how did you decide on Arthur Dove, the artist? He would be the painter that he would steal those paintings.
- [05:21]
B
At first, I maybe just slugged in Arthur Dove because I'm a fan, and it's what came to mind. But then after a long process of trying other things, I just kept coming back around to Dove. Well, he's an early, very early American abstract painter, and he's got a great name for my film. And I also, you know, I had a little. I had a friend that worked at the Phillips Collection in D.C. which houses the probably largest collection of doves. So it was like there was the practical reason of how do I even start this process? But I felt they felt right for our museum, and it might be something that someone who worked with Wood would actually. I could see why they would appeal to the character.
- [06:11]
A
In one scene, Josh, we see James, jb He's looking at the paintings in his house, and he's sort of imagining what they would look like on his living room.
- [06:22]
B
Giving so much away.
- [06:24]
C
Spoilers. Spoilers.
- [06:26]
A
Well, he does get the paintings at some point. We're not saying anything else. You do escape with the paintings. I think people most, mostly know that from the. From the trailer.
- [06:37]
B
I'll keep it down. I'll keep it. Trailer. The trailer.
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C
The trader is a bug.
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B
I'm against that, too.
- [06:45]
A
You're against the trailer?
- [06:46]
B
Well, you know, I would just love everyone to walk in totally blind. Okay. But no. Okay. Sorry. You got a job to do. You're helping us.
- [06:54]
C
You're right to ask. You're right.
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B
You're right. You are.
- [06:56]
A
It's okay. I understand. I understand. You don't want to give away spoilers. And we won't. I promise.
- [07:01]
B
I mean, my spoilers are so small. I mean, Kelly's spoiler alerts.
- [07:05]
C
Are you saying JB Mooney is a spoiler as far as Kelly's concerned?
- [07:10]
A
So back to James seeing these paintings on his wall. Is he someone who cares about art, or is he just curious what they would look like on his wall? I found that really interesting.
- [07:22]
C
I think, well, Kelly will speak to this too, but I think it's a point of pride, you know, real pride. Part of this is about feeding Moony's ego and feeling as though he's sort of, like, achieved this grand thing. I mean, apart from the fact that it's incredibly funny seeing him climb up in his.
- [07:44]
B
Oh, my goodness. My goodness, My goodness.
- [07:46]
C
Okay, I won't sing anymore.
- [07:48]
A
Kelly, you have a tough time talking about your film.
- [07:52]
B
Let's talk about the Louvre.
- [07:56]
A
Yeah, she. That's.
- [07:57]
C
That's how she'd like it.
- [07:58]
B
They had a ladder, they went in a window, broad daylight.
- [08:03]
C
Don't spoil the news story, Kevin.
- [08:05]
A
Yeah, okay, I'm gonna try to. Okay.
- [08:08]
B
I'm trying to work with those guys right now.
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A
Listen, listening to us right now. As you were saying, Josh, go on.
- [08:16]
C
Well, no, I just think it's. I just think it's a point of like, for him, it's just a point of pride. You know, he's. It's this. Yeah. You know, as Kelly sort of alluded to, he's sort of. You know, there is an element of like laziness to him, you know, and I think that he's, he's got this. I think that JV Mooney has this like deathly combination of like low self esteem, big ego, which like leads him to where he is. And I think that is a moment of him, of pride for him. And as I was saying, like, very funny.
- [08:52]
A
He's. Oh, he's a hero. Zero. He's one of those.
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C
I kind of think so. Yeah.
- [08:58]
A
The museum is not real, we should.
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B
Say, Kelly, the Framingham Art. Yeah, that's not real. That's made up.
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A
Tell me how you created it.
- [09:07]
B
Well, the Exterior is an I.M. p.E.I. library in Columbus, Indiana, that has. For some reason in Columbus, Indiana, there's like blocks of modernist buildings that are really beautiful, which I think there's a film about that called Columbus. And they. Anyway, that's the exterior. And then it became impossible. Obvious. I mean, now looking back, obviously to shoot inside a museum. So Tony Gasparo, our production designer and his mates and a bunch of local carpenters built the interior inside a warehouse off which. Yeah, this little warehouse. And that was great. That was exciting. So the paintings were getting made and the frames were getting made and the walls were getting put up and. Yeah, that was, that was cool.
- [09:56]
A
That was the inside of the museum. What did you want the inside of James's house to look like?
- [10:03]
B
Oh, the art team would love these questions. Well, he's in a. He's in a kind of ranch house that's a bit of a step down from his parents house and the sort of little bit upper middle class comforts he's used to. So he's, he's in a suburban neighborhood where the paper gets delivered every day and you mow your lawn and keep your car in the garage. But it doesn't have all the comforts that he's accustomed to.
- [10:35]
A
Josh James seems to be sort of. He sort of underestimates that his wife, Alana Haim, how upset she gets when she learns what might have happened.
- [10:49]
C
Yeah, I mean, I don't think. Again, you're right. But I don't think he ever thought it would get that far. Like, I think, you know, I think he's just. He's sort of, you know, kind of having to. You know, one of my favorite things about playing Mooney is just. He's sort of. He's going minute to minute at any given time. And at no point, I really don't think at any point does he doubt that he's got this covered, you know, and, and so he underestimates everyone, by the way. You know, like, he underestimates his friends, he underestimates his wife, he underestimates his children. So you're right to point that out. But I think he's, you know, he's ultimately, that's just from. That's just in his nature. He didn't. He never expected, you know, I think if in the, the other version of this film, Kelly, if we'd done the, the great idea working out.
- [11:51]
B
Yeah. Then.
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C
Then, you know, Terry would have been thrilled. As far as James concerned, I mean.
- [11:57]
B
I think he always thinks everything will work out for him. I don't find him to be so insecure as Josh does. I think he just. Things will go his way because that's how life goes for him.
- [12:07]
C
Yeah, right. But I don't think it's insecure. I agree with you. I don't think he's insecure. But the low self esteem thing is that thing of like, it's actually like a battering of his ego. That's why his ego is so big, is that I think he thinks he warrants more than, or he deserves more than he's got. Do you agree with that, Karen? Yes, I'm interviewing now.
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B
I love it.
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A
It's like sitting behind the scenes listening to the actor and the director discuss a character. It's really cool.
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B
And whenever I ask Josh about the, you know, let's talk about the character's background, he just screams. It's none of your business, really. On set, screaming. Screaming.
- [12:49]
A
Really? It's not true.
- [12:50]
C
Don't buy it.
- [12:52]
A
Well, maybe not screaming, but perhaps in.
- [12:54]
B
That, like, not true.
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A
Charming accent. It's none of your business.
- [12:56]
C
It's not true.
- [12:59]
A
Can we talk about it taking place in 1970?
- [13:01]
B
Sure.
- [13:02]
A
I mean, that's like right in the.
- [13:03]
B
Middle of the Vietnam War. Why did it take place? Right. It's the year we go into Cambodia and it's National Guard, if you can imagine, are going on to the onto into the universities and shutting down protesters. It's the year Kent State. But it also put. The draft is still on in full swing. And it. But Mooney is just. Just maybe past the age. Annie's got two kids, so it's like another reason that he's not paying that much attention of what's going on around him. And so, yeah, all that noise about what's happening in the world is just kind of on the peripheral of his. His brain, not really in the forefront, because he doesn't feel like it has that much to do with him.
- [14:00]
A
Does he have a relationship with current politics, with political events? Josh?
- [14:07]
C
I don't think so, no. I mean, like, you know, I don't think he's really invested or aware of. Of his surroundings, you know, too much, I think. You know, I ultimately, I mean, this is what. This is one of the things it's really. This is a real great thing about having this interview and not seeing Kelly is that I can say nice things about her without. See her squirm. But, you know, it's one of the things I love about Kelly's films is that there's always a sort. I always feel like there's. You have this story that we're following, and in the background, there's always something else going on, and it's a. It's a conscious. I felt like it was a conscious thing for us not to. Not to allow Mooney to be, you know, to be too aware of that. He's not. He's sort of like. He's just. He. I don't think he's a deep enough thinker. I don't think. You know, I don't think he's dumb, I think, but I don't think he's a deep enough thinker or has. Or perhaps he has the privilege of not feeling the impact of what's going on around him.
- [15:17]
A
This is the last question for both of you.
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B
What is a moment in the film that you'd like people to pay an.
- [15:22]
A
Extra five seconds of attention to?
- [15:26]
B
It could either be about. Well, you know, there's a lovely score by Rob Mazurek and with percussion by Chad Taylor and some other folks. I originally was sort of using the Chicago underground for some temp music, and then I ended up with those guys. Rob Mazur composed the music for the film, and that's. That was a lovely experience and a kind of lucky thing for me to have in the movie. Yeah.
- [15:57]
A
How about for you, Josh?
- [16:00]
C
You know, sticking to my department, I suppose I would a little shout out to my. To my two sons in the film, Jasper and Sterling, who are just so terrific in the movie, but just great kids. And we had such a brilliant time with Alana's brilliant. You know, the whole cast, Hope and but Bill. But you know, those two boys, their first movie and they were so brilliant as actors but just fab people. And really, we really enjoyed their company. So kind of I would keep an eye out for those two.
- [16:41]
A
I enjoyed the breaking of the egg to reveal the pantyhose because I knew it was seven.
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C
Yeah. Yeah.
- [16:49]
A
The film is called the Mastermind. My guests have been Kelly Reichardt and Josh o'. Connor. Thank you for your time today.
- [16:55]
B
Thank you so much.
- [16:56]
C
Thank you so much. Thanks for having us.
- [16:57]
B
Bye, Josh.
- [16:58]
C
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- [17:03]
B
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- [17:04]
D
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