B (3:23)

I'm so jealous. My country bumpkin high school didn't have a theater program. Where'd you go to school in this little town? Morganton, North Carolina. That's actually great. Like in the foothills of the mountains. But in third grade, I was in Oliver Twist and Best Christmas Pageant ever. And also Peter Pan. That was a big year. All in third grade.

C (3:43)

What a star.

B (3:44)

Peter Pan was one of those where this married couple comes through town and they like, roll up on a Monday and then hold auditions, and then you all pay and there's like three days of rehearsal. And then Friday you put up the show and she is Peter and he's the director, and then they go to the next town. Isn't that incredible? We should do that.

C (3:58)

That's our next show.

B (3:59)

That's our next show. We should do that business now.

A (4:01)

It's so interesting because when you're a director, Sam, you have to make a lot of decisions. That's what directors have to do. What was a big decision you had to make for Tada?

C (4:12)

Well, casting was a nightmare, first of all. Yeah, but we found our girl.

B (4:18)

We really wanted Michael Urie to tell the deeply personal stories of my life, but he's tech unavail.

C (4:24)

I think one of the gifts of working with Josh and working on a solo comedy show is Josh has been making hilarious things on his own for years and without help or the help of a director. And having this opportunity to do it at the Greenwich House and bring in designers and collaborators to take this person's absolutely singular brain and blow it out in four dimensions into a night at the theater is like, yes, directing is about making decisions, but it also really, to me, is about bringing the right people together and setting them up to make their best work. And that's been so satisfying.

B (5:00)

And you file down my corns.

C (5:02)

Well, we said we weren't going to talk about that.

B (5:04)

You file down my corns. And that's a big part of what directing is. Performing is mostly developing corns during the show.

A (5:13)

You make a point, Josh, that what you're doing is different than stand up. What makes it different?

B (5:20)

You know, I love stand up quite legitimately and even love some of the great, like, stand up presented as theater shows where you are like, in a gorgeous theater watching a comedian do their art for 80 minutes. But I was with this show, like, I don't wanna do the lazy version where it's just me talking into a mic. I wanted every moment you to see that I've had to memorize 2,000 cues, that I've worked, like, deeply too hard on this for you. So I do think at its root it's stand up, but it's sort of housed in this device that makes me sort of hustle harder than you think I should have to. But then with Sam and building this version of the show, we've just been able to really, like, take a warm bath in some of the theater elements of one. Just like hiring all these designers, like you said, where it's like, we hired a genius to like, reformat all our slides so that these things that I made in PowerPoint in my bedroom now sort of look stunty. And then also to just like, understand that this version of the audience is down for some of the, like, storytelling, that there's. There's times where we can. There's a part of the show that is just like, ram, bam, joke, joke, joke. And then there's parts where I feel like you can tell a story and be like, I trust you're with me. And we can sort of like be on this together and be in this room together and sort of treat it like theater re. You know what I mean? And so, like, getting to do both at once has been very fun.

A (6:45)

How does that impact you? That it's not a stand up performance? That it's a just a performance?

C (6:50)

Yeah. I mean, I think every show I make comes with its own weird, specific set of roles, which I love. It's like, what keeps me interested is I have to start from scratch. And I think a secret of Josh and this show is that it has a big beating heart. It is BLEEP that quick. I'm so sorry to explain.

B (7:12)

Don't let anyone know that. Oh, God.

C (7:15)

And you know, it is a really special thing that theater can do. I'm feeling so cheesy today, y'.

A (7:21)

All.

C (7:21)

But it's a thing that theater can do to be like, hey, everybody, we're in this room together for a very short amount of time, much like our time on earth, and we've all been through a lot, and I think that we've never really talked about this as standup. We've always talked about it as theater or as a show, as a thing for people to experience together. I work with a lot of very funny people, but I never think about it as like I'm helping this person with their stand up.

B (7:50)

Yeah. And then it's fun. The part we have talked about is like, though we are sort of building a theater piece, there's just so, well, one. So much of the content is stand up. And also there's so much just of the stand up sort of POV you can bring to it in a way that I think feels exciting because like, I fully can see all of your faces. And so like, not that, not that actors aren't always playing to the energy of the room, but like, there's no fourth wall. I'm looking at you in the eyes and I can really like feel how people are receiving it and sort of like play off that energy in a way that feels very. One of the joys of stand up is being. Because you're so used to rolling up to whatever venue you're rolling up to and playing what's there that you have to just be like a witch reading energies, you know what I mean? And so even though this is a show that's like at the same, well, air conditioned theater, I'll have you know every night that it's like I can sort of be very present as far as like, how are you 199 people feeling? And not that the show changes that much, but there is this sort of like interesting communication between us that I think is what stand up is rooted on is like, I am in the room with you and I can sort of like feed off of you and.

C (8:56)

You'Re taking care of us. You really take care of that room.

B (8:59)

I have to file their corns. That's sort of how it works. But yeah, no, but I agree. It's like, it's fun both with the comedy we were talking about the other night because there's things where we're like giving notes on timing, but sometimes it's very night to night where it's like this bit was a little longer tonight and it's like, well, yeah, they were really vibing with it and so I have to sort of like let them vibe with it.

A (9:19)

How do you decide, you know what, that needs to be a little bit shorter? That needs to be a little bit longer. Or is it a night by night situation?

C (9:27)

Sam, I do think, I mean, Josh has this brain that only Josh has and this experience as a Comedian working the room. But to me, I do think that surprise is the engine of any good live performance, whether we're talking about a three hour play or Beyonce, which this thing is neither of those things.

B (9:48)

It's the third thing. It triangulates both of them.

C (9:50)

It's the space in between the three hour play.

B (9:52)

It's distant to both. It is both similar and dissimilar in equal ways.

C (9:56)

I think our job together in previews is really listening to the audience and making sure that we're taking them on a ride and that they're going on that ride with us. And that that's surprising. And some of that is technical and a lot of that is like ooey gooey alchemical nonsense and it's fun and impossible to describe.

B (10:11)

It's witchcraft complete. I'm fully, very pro witchcraft. And so we're trying to do that in the space.

A (10:18)

We'll have more to come with comic Josh Sharp and his director, Sam Pinkleton after a quick break. This is all of It. You are listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Let's get back into my conversation with Josh Sharp and director Sam Pinkleton about Josh's one man show. Ta da. And if you go to see the show, you'll see it. Start with Josh explaining what the audience should expect. I asked him to explain to our audience what to expect from the show and why it's important to prepare them.

B (10:57)

A lot of it is, you know, up top. We do several minutes on this where.

A (11:00)

It'S like, hi, hello. Hey, welcome. Hi.

B (11:01)

Yeah, well, the first couple minutes is just like an intensely choreographed series of greetings where I am sort of nonsense babbling, but exactly on text to the words you're seeing behind me. That's mostly done to show you right off the bat, like, this is me and I'm on it. And also sort of to disorient you. We've always sort of liked that the show starts and you're like, what the dang heck is going on?

C (11:23)

How did this happen? Where am I?

B (11:24)

Did your producer love the way I didn't curse? I'm really, I'm thriving in this new, you know, clean comedy space. Gosh, get me to the Midwest asap. But then we sort of try to unpack it a little bit of like the different ways we'll use it. And to me, sometimes it is about like, I think it's sort of fun that especially as the show goes on, you start to realize like, oh, my brain can sort of just take in both at once. So there's times where I'm saying one thing and you're reading something else, and sometimes it's to underscore a point, or sometimes it's to, like, make a joke that's in contrast to what I'm saying, or truly, sometimes to just, like, fill in gaps in my speech. I love now that I can sort of, like, shoot you a look and then press a slide that says text and you sort of label what's going on. But then other times, to me, it's playing with the expat expectation of what standup is, where it's like, this might feel like the cuff, but it's. It's. It's deeply scripted. So sometimes I just want the words to come up on the screen as I say them, particularly if I'm turning a phrase that I am taken by. I want you to know, like, I chose these words and for you to see them. And often it's just music. To me, a lot of comedy is making the funniest sounds, and then hopefully you put them in context, really, that someone can understand it. So there's a lot of it where it's just sort of percussive, where I'm just like. I think there's something funny about the rhythm of this speech, and I want to highlight that for you.

A (12:42)

And you also show the audience that your clicker's real.

B (12:45)

Oh, yeah. I give it to the audience and let them do it because I don't want anyone thinking some Union stagehand is doing it for me. But it is true. And so sometimes I am wrong.

C (12:54)

Yeah, we're kind of obsessed with not lying.

B (12:57)

We're obsessed with not lying.

C (12:58)

We're obsessed with the show really. Really putting all of its cards on the table. Pardon the pun.

B (13:04)

Yeah, I'm doing this tightrope walk for you. And also, like we say, it's 2,000 slides. It's absolutely accurate. We're not lying. It's me doing it. I'm tightly tethered to my speech, and so if I make a mistake, I either have to sort of cutely address it to you or somehow, like, compensate on the fly to get there. You know, Again, it feels very in the room.

C (13:23)

It's like, yeah, you have to be in the room with it.

B (13:26)

We're doing this, and it's only for you.

C (13:27)

Yeah.

A (13:28)

What do you consider the slides? Are they an assistant to Josh? Are they another person in the play?

C (13:35)

Wow. What a great question. I think they are a scene partner in a way.

B (13:39)

That's how I'M feeling.

C (13:40)

I do think it's like a two person show in one person is Josh and one person is a screen. And it is this incredibly, I think, often, very beautiful thing of seeing things line up and contradict and oppose each other and disagree with each other as you would in a scene. And often you mention this, but I do feel like sometimes the show feels like this exercise for your brain. Like, it feels like your brain is getting this massage because you're getting information that is coming at you in two ways, aggressively. And sometimes that's really funny. And sometimes that is, to me, at least, unexpectedly quite moving.

B (14:20)

Yeah. It's fun to flex this part of your brain that I think once you do it, you're like, I can't believe I can sort of take in both these streams. And then we just play a lot with like, what do you do with it? But I agree it's a scene partner. We're really finessing a lot of the timing of like, when I say this. And then she. I've just now decided that she's she.

D (14:37)

Her.

C (14:37)

She's she.

B (14:38)

Clearly she's she. They.

C (14:40)

Okay.

B (14:41)

Don't you feel like.

C (14:41)

I do.

B (14:43)

She's any and all with respect, but I feel like a lot of times we're doing the timing of like, when I say this joke and then she sort of chimes in with this slide. It's funny if you hold one second, you know, or whatever. So I do think it's sort of a two person show between me and PowerPoint.

A (15:00)

When you look at the PowerPoint because you mentioned that you were an SAT tutor, was that hard to look at it when the grammar isn't right?

B (15:11)

Is the grammar wrong in our show? Oh, God, yeah. No, it is often wrong. No, no, no. We wanted the slides to have pov. Also, I'm also, I'm very into that. This thing that sort of on its face feels very erudite and highbrow is so stupid. I want to be clear. It's so dumb both how we use it and the things it's often saying are dumb and dumb, dummy dumb. And so I think we wanted it to not feel like a TED Talk, even though. Even though I understand a lot of this pitch sounds like I'm doing a TED Talk, it's so stupid and manic.

C (15:43)

It's aggressively approachable, I think. I mean, it's so hard to explain the show to people, but I do think we have a mutual obsession of, like, doing incredibly dumb things with absolute rigor. And I think what you've Done is the smartest thing I've ever seen and the stupidest thing I've ever seen, which is two things at once.

B (16:02)

Well, also, because you brought it up, like, there's a story I tell about being a boy magician. And honestly, before I even was a magician, I was just obsessed with magic. And I would dress like a magician, and my parents said I would come into the room and just go, tada. And so I tell that story and when I say ta da, I hit it. And text comes up behind me that says ta da. But then I'm able to go. I would come in the room and go, ta da. So, you know, and then the slide says in parentheses gay. And that becomes sort of nomenclature in the show that anytime I say ta da, it's gay. But that, to me, is funny because I can put an idea in your head visually. Visually, I can sort of say what you are saying inside of your own brain using this thing that I don't have to say. And it gets a big laugh. And it's like, it's funny to be able to have this other thing that's doing jokes that I don't have to say that I can, like, cram in jokes in between my speech. Also, I'm sort of addicted to jokes. So it helps us, like, just pack in more jokes and then also helps us sometimes under, like, when the show does become a little more heart led, it's, like, nice to use it to, like, label certain things that, like, when we're telling the story of my mom, there's, like, certain texts that just sort of repeats again and again and again. Because I want you to sort of, like, take in certain pieces of the information and be, like, seeing it over and over visually while you're hearing it. So it's been fun to explore as a device. But again, I want to underscore that it's dumb.

C (17:22)

Deeply dumb.

B (17:22)

Please, please come knowing you're getting smart and dumb in equal measure and leaning dumb more than smart.

A (17:30)

We're talking about Josh Sharp. Ta da. It's at the Greenwich House Theater on Barrow street until August 23rd. We're talking with Josh Sharp as well as director Sam Pinkleton. Did you start rehearsals for Josh's show after the Tony Awards?

C (17:45)

Well, I mean, Josh and I have been talking about. Josh developed this material for a long time on his own, and then we've been talking about making a theatrical version now for about a year, but in earnest. We started rehearsal immediately after the Tony Awards, which was a week that I. I think of the Tony Awards as, like a diving accident. Like, I have absolutely no recall of it.

B (18:06)

You did hit your head pretty hard.

C (18:08)

Did you not know this when I was accepting the award?

B (18:11)

Have you not seen the footage? The Tony actually falls on the ground.

C (18:14)

They drop it into your head. That's how you know you won. So we started right after. And it was. It's been an absolutely brilliant thing to spend time with.

B (18:24)

Can I put on record that Sam is deranged and. And complimentary? But, yeah, we did start directly after the Tonys. We were at the Tonys because I. I didn't go to the ceremony. I went to the after parties. We were like, at the after party, sometimes sidebarring, like, hey, I have an idea for the show.

C (18:40)

Planning the show, really? At the Tony after party, for sure.

B (18:43)

But we had been in conversation about it for a while, and then rehearsals were when we really had the team in the room. But, yeah, we were truly were at the Carlisle being like, what if this slide actually, you know.

C (18:53)

Yeah, but that's not how you. That's how you make fun of stuff.

A (18:55)

Yeah.

B (18:55)

Well, I really do think the point of being alive is to, like, make fun projects with your friends. You know what I mean? So it's like. It's. That's where. And I. Sorry to my therapist. I know he's listening. Work, life, balance. Good G. I get it. But can you say God? Okay. Good God. I got a thumbs up. But it's like, it is fun to be friends who get to make.

C (19:17)

Oh, it's tough. You're so good. You. You always say all. You're like, can you believe we do this as our job? And I. I do think that's worth saying out loud. It's amazing. There's horrific things happening. We're making a comedy show.

A (19:32)

But you're making people happy.

C (19:33)

I hope so.

B (19:34)

I hope so too. I'm saying gratitude is, I think, good as a practice, but it's especially good when it's easy, like, when you mean it, when you actually are like, I love that we get to do this. It's like, then you have to take a warm bath in that.

C (19:46)

We want. Yeah. We take making people happy very seriously.

A (19:50)

What do you like about doing small theater? Off Broadway. Off Off Broadway theater. Because you've done. Cause that's where Omari started in his little theater, Loosely Theater, and then it went to Broadway. But you're back at Greenwich House doing Josh's great show. You've got a whole bunch of other stuff planned. You've also got Broadway planned. What Is it that you like about us?

B (20:12)

We're going. This is how I find out.

A (20:15)

What do you like about small theater?

C (20:17)

I love. I mean, I like making theater and thinking of it as an experience of hospitality. I love thinking about every single person being welcomed into the room at whatever terms work for them. And I find in smaller rooms that's a sometimes just like a little easier to do in a way that's authentic. But also what Josh said about being able to see every face in the room, that matters. Like it matters. It mattered when we were doing oh Mary at the Lortel. Are doing this at the Greenwich House. That like I can look around and actually see everybody's faces. And there is like, I do think it's a big deal that people put their pants on and left their house and came to a room to be with strangers.

B (20:59)

A well air conditioned room. I just want to say again saying it, I know that's a big part of the sell.

C (21:04)

I just, I think that it's. I like and I think it's something that our show does very intentionally is like reminds people that like you're in a room together and you're not dead. Yeah. And I take that part of the assignment very seriously. And I think working in smaller rooms and working off Broadway, you can just feel the specialness of like we're all here together. Look around, you can see everybody's faces.

B (21:28)

I agree. And the Greenwich House in particular is 199 people. So it's enough people for there to be like a palpable energy in the room. But even compared to other off Broadway theaters that have a similar seat count, you're sort of really in with each other. Which plays great for comedy because you do want people just sort of like packed in comfortably. I'll have, you know, drinks too. Well, you better believe have a Cosmo before and after is how the artist Turing even sneak it in in a flask. Don't tell the Greenwich House I said that, but. But it's true. I can see everybody in a way you can't in other spaces. Last night Sam came with his husband and didn't tell me, but I and was sitting like back row balcony and I could fully see them. And so I got off the stage and texted your husband was here. And he's like, wait, you knew? And I'm like, oh, oh, honey. I can see every person in this theater.

A (22:16)

The show really touches on some emotional issues. If I can talk about that for just a second. About your mom, about coming out, things that were really Significant to you. That seemed to have importance to you. First of all, why did you want to be so revealing about your life?

B (22:33)

Part of it is. I mean, I think it's okay to sort of say the thesis statement, which is that in the middle of the show, after sort of like, 30 minutes of incredibly gay and crass material, I tell this story about how my mom, who passed away from ovarian cancer in 2010, in the last year of her life, sort of made it her mission to, like, gently bully me out of the closet before she passed away. And so, one. It just does feel linked to the material I've done before in a weird way. Again, I'm talking about things I cannot say on air or else I will be, you know, But. But also, it's a part of this thing that we're doing with the slides where it's like, it's two at once. It's like, I want the show that has space for a certain type of material to also sort of surprisingly, have space for another type of material. And also, frankly, I just love my mom and love that story, and it's like. It's like a true joy to tell it to people and. And, like, explores this device we're using, like I'm saying, where even when the show. And I think even at that point it still has a lot of space for jokes and even many inappropriate jokes, it, like, uses this thing to, one, allow you to take in two ideas at once and underscore some of the things I'm saying which is connected to her story. Like, she. She passed away in a way that was so sad, but also, it was, like, such a rad year we had together where she not only gently bullied me out of the closet and this doesn't come up in the show, but she just sort of made it her mission to be, like, I'm gonna truly, like, use this time to, like, deeply connect with a lot of people. And my family and friends still all have stories of it that come out even years later, where they're like, did you know she told me this and that? I'm like, she did what? So it's like it. It feels two at once, where it's like, it's such a sad story, and yet I feel such a sense of, like, optimism and joy about it, you know? So, like, I don't know. There's many answers, I guess, really. One is how it connects to the gross gay material that precedes it. But the other is how it just, like, I think, allows you to feel Two things at once. To be like, dang, that's sad. And also, dang, that sounds amazing.

C (24:39)

You know, I feel like getting to be the visitor on Planet Josh, which I'm very lucky to be. And I feel like I have fallen in love with your mom, who I never met.

B (24:47)

Dude, you would have loved her.

C (24:48)

That's so clear.

B (24:49)

She ruled so hard.

C (24:51)

But I feel like, in a way, this format feels to me like the only way you ever could have told this story, which is so insane to say because it is an incredibly bizarre format that I've never seen before of, like, somebody in a manic PowerPoint. But it. It. It feels like the most honest way to tell the story because the story has contradictions and complexities and.

A (25:13)

Sam, you're working on Rocky Horror.

C (25:17)

I am, yeah. I'm directing a new production of the Rocky Horror show on Broadway at Studio next spring.

A (25:23)

That's amazing.

C (25:24)

No pressure.

A (25:25)

That's amazing.

C (25:26)

It's very exciting.

A (25:27)

Anything else we can expect from you?

C (25:28)

I am working with an incredible, incredible genius, comedian, activist, hero called Morgan Basakis, who is making a show called Can I Be Frank? That is kind of conversation with dance with a comedian called Frank Maya, who died of aids. He was a comedian who was kind of just on the precipice of mainstream success when he died of aids. And Morgan has made this hilarious show that is an excavation of Frank's material, and it's. There's nothing like it. We're doing it at Soho Playhouse, mere.

B (26:06)

Blocks from my theater.

C (26:07)

Big. You could do two in one day.

B (26:08)

Morgan rules as, like, a human, much less a performer, activist. And I can't wait to see the show. But also, you could literally do a two to three.

C (26:16)

You could do a two. Show day Saturday.

B (26:18)

One of us has a five and the other has an eight.

C (26:20)

Gay comedy is. Is. It's a gay comedy summer, everybody.

A (26:24)

It's a gay comedy summer.

B (26:25)

It's gay comedy. West Village. Have a Cosmo. There's time for a Cosmo in between, too. They're both relatively short.

C (26:30)

There's time for a turkey dinner.

B (26:31)

Both shows are darling. Yes, under 90 minutes. A hot turkey dinner. Nothing better in August than a full turkey dinner.

A (26:39)

That was Josh Sharp and Sam Pinkleton. Ta Da. Is at the Greenwich House Theater and has been extended to September 27th. As you've heard, Sam Pinkleton has been quite busy since winning his Tony Award for directing O Mary. He also directed Morgan Basakis in the show Can I Be Frank at the Soho Playhouse. It's about the life of Frank Maja, a comic who died of AIDS related illness just as he was about to break through to the mainstream. I talked to Morgan Basquias about Sam's input and Sam calling Morgan an activist.

D (27:14)

It's kind of inextricable, my artistic and political commitments and, you know, certainly like so many people, I wake up thinking about the horror in Gaza every single day. And like so many other people, feel like it is my responsibility to do every single thing I can to stop our government's complicity in the genocide that Israel is carrying out in Gaza. So, and that comes out of a long standing commitment for me, both inside of Jewish communities and inside of all of our communities, to organize us against racism and against war and into solidarity movements.

A (27:53)

I want to talk to you a little bit about stagecraft, a little bit about how Sam was helpful to you. Okay. He said you had to put on an entertaining show. What did that mean to you when he said entertaining show?

D (28:04)

First of all, yes, that's a great question. My biological father, Sam Pinkleton, what did he mean when he said that? I think, I think he's like, you have to earn. You gotta earn the gravity, you know, you gotta earn the sincerity. You have to earn the message. And I really agree with him. And I think there's something about really balancing the gravity and the levity and making sure that the humor is carried throughout that makes the message of it so much more digestible and metabolizable. And it's Mary Poppins, you know, it's Spoonful of Sugar.

A (28:49)

You are constantly wrapping yourself in a mic cord. The longest mic cord I have ever seen anyone, ever. Yes.

B (28:57)

Thank you.

D (28:57)

That's an honor to be recognized. Thank you.

A (29:00)

What's the deal with the mic cord?

D (29:02)

Oh, my God. Thank you for asking. No one's asked yet. Well, we discovered in rehearsal because we'd always use a cordless mic. And then we were like, oh, my God, this mic, this cord just presents all these kind of choreographic opportunities. And also to me, it kind of also represents this kind of umbilical cord, this kind of across generations that is like the microphone cord for so many of us queers of like, we are passing down the mic and we need to get on stage and we have this need that we don't even know totally understand where it comes from to get on stage and try to make people laugh. And that is. It just carries through so many generations.

A (29:36)

Well, it's interesting because when I watched one of the past, Frank Maya, he had one of the long chords, I was like, oh, is it that? But then at the same time, when you're on stage, like, you don't really know what to do with it. It's like wrapped five times around your arm. You've got a woman in the audience, you ask her to hold the chord. It was. It was one of those things that was, like, funny and you're not sure why.

B (29:57)

Totally.

D (29:57)

I appreciate you naming it.

B (29:58)

Yeah.

D (29:59)

Choreography. Yeah.

A (30:01)

Excellent. That was Morgan Basakis. You can see. Can I be Frank? At the Soho Playhouse. The poetry of Reginald Dwayne Betts is next. This is all of it.

B (30:30)

This is Ira Flato, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, the science Friday team has been reporting high quality science and technology news, making science fun for curious people by covering everything from the outer reaches of space to the rapidly changing world of AI to the tiniest microbes in our bodies. Audiences trust our show because they know we're driven by a mission to inform and serve listeners first and foremost with important news they won't get anywhere else. And our sponsors benefit from that halo effect. For more information on becoming a sponsor, visit sponsorship wnyc. Org.