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All Of It with Alison Stewart
Julia Louis-Dreyfus Confronts Death in 'Tuesday'
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Julia Louis-Dreyfus discusses starring in 'Tuesday.'
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Listener Support WNYC Studio.
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This is all of it. I'm Kusha Navadar in for Alison Stewart. Thanks for joining us today. I'm glad you're here. Coming up today, we are devoting the second hour of the show to your memories of D Day. If you have a family member or a friend who was present or if you yourself were there, we want to hear about the experience. So call in or text us and please share. Plus, we'll speak with author and comedian Ian Carmel about his new memoir, which comes out today. That's the plan. So let's get this started with the new film date Tuesday if death knocked at your door, how would you answer? And what shape would death take? In the A24 latest film, Tuesday Death Comes in the shape of a talking bird. Yes, with long feathers, a strong beak and a deep voice, the bird travels from city to city, helping sick and dying people reach the other side. And on its quest, the bird encounters a young teen named Tuesday. She's terminally ill. She's on her deathbed. And the bird tells Tuesday that her time has come, but she's not ready to die. It's also something that her mother, played by Julia Louis Dreyfus, has trouble accepting, too. And what follows is a fantasy adventure for mother and daughter that explores the feelings that come with the death of a loved one. Loss, grief, acceptance. The film is tender and melancholy. It's called Tuesday, and with us to talk about it is actor and comedian Julia Louis Dreyfus, who plays the mother. Hi Julia. Welcome to the show.
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B
Hi thank you for that description. It made. It makes me want to see the movie even though I've already seen it.
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A
Well, you can always go back to the movie theater and see a second time. And Dinah Opusik, director of Tuesday, which is also her debut feature as a director. Hi, Dinah. Welcome to all of it.
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Hi. Thanks so much for having me.
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Absolutely. It's a pleasure to have you both and to have watched this movie. So, Dinah, first, congrats on your future directorial debut. When I think of birds, I think of the Emily Dickinson poem Hope, which is the thing with feathers is what Emily Dickinson wrote. But in this case, death is the thing with feathers. And Dinah, I'm wondering what got you thinking about this bird as the right way to portray this abstract concept of death.
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Well, I, I really felt that that's personality or the way that I was thinking about him, that it, it had bird like qualities, if you like. He needed to sort of be cuddly and friendly in one moment and then at the turn of the head be frightening, scary and foreign. And birds can have that quality. He also needed to talk, which parrots are famous for, and dance and saying parents, parrots could do all that. And I also felt that him being a bird, but not just a bird, you know, in the film he is pushed into being kind of more of a monster as well. He's more than just a macaw bird. He's sort of a creature that, that really fit and went well with the way that we were going to bring him to life and the visual effects.
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A
And Julia, you know, you get your hands on this script, was there a specific moment when you decided that, yes, this was going to be my next project?
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Well, there were a couple of moments. The script was sent to me, I read, I was intrigued, which is an understatement. I mean, I'd never read anything like it. And the themes of the, of the script spoke to me deeply. But I needed to meet this, this artist who, from whose brain this script came. And so I did. Dinah and I met over zoom and we got to know one another because I wanted, personally, I wanted to make sure that, that her vision for this film was clear and organized and thoughtful and had tenderness, all of which was confirmed for me. And so I took the leap of faith with Dinah and I'm all the better for it.
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And you know, I gotta say, watching the movie, it reminded me that many of my favorite dramatic actors are also fiercely funny. And Julia, I'm wondering for you, do you think understanding what greats comedy helps.
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Performing drama yeah, it's really similar, to be honest. It's really just about. It's about coming from a. A real place of truth. Not truth adjacent, but truth. And if you can do that, you can nail either, in my view. And I think maybe it's harder to fake comedy, but they're really very similar.
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Yeah. I also love the levity in this film because there is. There's tenderness, like you said, Julia. There's also joy and there's levity, especially in the beginning. Your character is a bit frazzled. Let's listen to a brief interaction your character has with Tuesday's caretaker and nurse. While they're talking, the lights suddenly go out, and then. And then this happens.
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Well, yeah, you can come in a little late tomorrow. And now we kiss. I'm not attracted to you. Oh. Oh, no, no, no. I didn't. I didn't mean that. I'm sorry. I was just making a joke. Oh, I didn't. Please don't sue me. I didn't.
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I don't think I could actually prove misconduct.
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Okay. Okay. Good, Good, good, good.
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That's good. Good, good.
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That was from the new A24 film, Tuesday. You heard Julia Louis Dreyfus on there. And we're also talking to Dinah Opusick, who is the director. And, Dinah, I'm wondering, how did you lean on Julia's comedic chops to tack. What sort of discussions did you have with each other on how to set a balance that striked Being funny and serious and like Julia said, above all, truthful.
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C
Very concrete discussions. Julia's input is always very, very specific and doable. There's not, you know, there was always, you know, her input. And our discussions were always about the scene itself, the lines themselves, you know, very concrete discussions about where we were taking the scene. And that kind of helped us just sort of take the jokes or take the scene on its own merit and not necessarily think about, oh, where was this joke? Slotting in to the big, you know, theme of the film. We just sort of had fun with it and looked at what the characters were thinking and feeling in that present moment. So it was always very specific.
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Yeah. And Julia, for you, how did Dinah help you think through your character? And can you talk about that character a little bit, what she's going through?
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Oh, boy. Well, Dinah really helped me. You know, I was thinking about this, actually, Dinah, because something that you would say a lot on set. I would say, dinah, I have a question, or dinah, I would. I would come to you and I would say, dinah, and you would say, Tell me. And it's, it's just an, it's something that you do. You say, tell me. And it's a very, it's a very open hearted way to, to communicate with someone and under these circumstances. I needed that open heart and was a. It was incredibly. Dinah is and was incredibly supportive of this journey that I took with her. The. I, I came at this, at this part, you know, because of course I was intrigued by it because I'm a mother of two children now, quite grown, but I still. They are my children and so I certainly understand the ferociousness of the parent child bond. And also I have lost people in my own life who are very close to me. And so I have a deep understanding of grief and loss and death and dying. So the fact that this all was a part of the story is, is what drew me to it, to Dinah's work. And I can't remember your question.
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Well, you know. No, it's all, it's all.
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I think I'm answering it.
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No, absolutely. It's part of the journey because I was asking about what is your character going through and you've kind of described what your character is going through indirectly in there. You know, in the film you play a mother that has trouble processing her sick daughter and her terminal illness. And that daughter is played by Lola Petticrew, who I feel like we have to bring up in this discussion as well. Julia, can you tell us a bit more about how you worked with Lola to portray this tense dynamic as well?
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Lola is an extraordinary actor. It was very important to Dinah and to the two of us, Lola and myself, that we understood the complicated dynamic of this mother daughter relationship. And the fact is that Lola was the parent to her mother, Zora, and. And the journey becomes the. That flipping on its head by the end of the film. It's not the only journey, but it's a big piece of it. And Lola is a caring individual who put an enormous amount of thought and consideration into this role. It was very important to them that they did not play the role as a victim. And I think that they achieved that accomplishment because Tuesday is not a victim. Actually. Tuesday's a hero in this movie. And I think that's important to point out.
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Yeah. Diana, what fascinates you about the mother daughter relationship? Cause Tuesday and her mother's relationship is tense. And you captured it with like real rawness there.
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I think what Julia said is very, you know, intriguing and important to me. The role reversal between mother and daughter and how that then. How that then flips by the end of the movie. And in a way, what I feel the movie is about, among other things, is is a daughter teaching her mother how to love her in the way that she should. Because, you know, such a big part of loving her daughter is being there for her, regardless of what she might want the situation to be, but what the situation is and what her daughter is actually going through. And so, you know, that relationship being a way of exploring the complexities of intense big love and how, you know, it's not necessarily always straightforward. It's sometimes very complex. And it's peppered with situations and. And dynamics that are not always pretty, you know, that are not always comfortable to look at.
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And while I was watching it, I was thinking about the fact that you, Dinah, wrote and directed this film. And I'm sure you wore so many hats throughout the entire production. And this topic is raw, and to see it go through the right tone, I'm sure keeping that truth must have been tough. So could you talk a little bit about what some of the challenges were that you faced when you were translating this story from script to screen and how you approach those challenges?
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I think you said it really well. Insisting on keeping it truthful is actually. It is the biggest challenge because you and yourself, you know what the truth of the story is. Not just in terms of the story, you know, the specific story you're telling, but how you're telling it, how you're approaching the visual effects, how you are constructing the film. And. And you know, what is important? I think a lot of the times things that are very important in the film, they get lost in the. In the mix because not everyone can see that. They can. You can't see into your head. So doing that, insisting on that, having the. The energy and the strength to push for things that only I could have known at that specific moment was the biggest challenge. And being able to do that is sort of my proudest, is something that I'm very proud of.
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Absolutely. And I mean.
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Sorry, go ahead.
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Can I just add to that? Because she is, well, right to be proud of that, because this was a very difficult shoot for all sorts of reasons. It was technical and emotional all at once. And she was organized, as my father used to say, to affair thee. Well, every single shot was storyboarded. Every angle was storyboarded on this. And we called her our fearless leader and still do, because she absolutely is.
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From a technical perspective, it seemed like the bird was really good, but also, like. Seemed like it was tough to get right. Diana, can you Talk a little bit about how you made sure that the bird translated to screen, how you wanted to. The movements of the bird, the color, the shaping, your conversations with the VFX team.
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C
Reparation is one huge part of it. You know, I prepared very, in a very, very detailed, scene, specific, intense way with the visual effects team before the shoot for well over a year. And that's not just in terms of, you know, you know, what, what he's going to look like, but also what are the scenes demanding of him and what does that mean for, you know, how we design him for his skeletal structure, for his proportions, for his feathers. What does it mean when he grows or, you know, shrinks? How going to, you know, is in all these discussions? I mean, I could go on and on about it or, you know, is each individual feather grow and shrinking or are they, you know, it's. There's just so many things to consider and so much, so much to think about. And I'm lucky that I enjoy that kind of stuff because if I didn't, I would have probably blocked myself out the window. It's just like hours and hours of this discussion. And the other very, I mean, crucial, just completely crucial aspect of it was that we based the character in an actor's performance. So Arinze Kenny, who plays Death, was in the scenes in front of the camera with the other actors the whole time. And the VFX animators sort of animated directly over him in post production. And also his voice is. That's his voice. It's completely undoctored. So finding someone of that caliber and that talent and that type of versatility to portray Death and then base the visual effects on their interpretation, on their performance, that was crucial. It just would not have worked for them.
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Well, you know, I was going to ask Julia what was it like to act in front of a CGI bird, but it sounds like it might have been slightly easier than that. How was that process for you?
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Well, yes, it was an utter delight because I was in a scene with another actor who brought his heart and soul to the performance. And you know, those scenes when I was negotiating with Death or fighting death, I mean, to have someone there that I was playing off of was meant everything. I mean, I really. We could never have done it without him. We just couldn't have.
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No.
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Can you talk a bit about how your character feels about the bird when she first encounters it and what it says about your character's relationship with Death? Because I think that was a really moving part of the whole story.
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Yes, well, when she encounters death, she knows she has to get rid of death. Death must go. So that's quite clear. And that was maybe one of the easiest turns to make because there isn't a mother in the world who wouldn't have that reaction. And so she fights death in every way possible. I don't want to give spoilers.
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I know spoilers, but. Diana, you're going to say something.
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No. I loved Julia's input. I remember shooting that scene, and death is referred to as a he throughout the film, and everyone refers to him as a he. And I remember when we were shooting that scene, Julia just came up to me and just said, you know, I think I should call him an it. And she does through, you know, throughout the. And it just. It's right. It just felt really great that. That relationship. She had to sort of distance herself in that way and call him an id.
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Yeah. And that idea of denial and kind of it being a taboo topic really, really strikes the heart of it in the film. And I'm curious for both of you, Julia, how do you talk or don't talk about death in your own circles, like with your families, with your loved ones? And did you bring that to bear in this performance?
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I talk about it. I think it's a really interesting subject and. And I think we would all be better served to talk about it more. We're all going to encounter it. If we're lucky enough to live a long life, we're going to have a lot of loss, and one day we're all going to be dead. So it's a fact. And there doesn't seem to be enough conversation. I don't think about it. I hope the film engenders that kind of conversation, but I'm. I think there's. God, it's such a rich area.
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Yeah. How do you feel like this movie talks about it in a way that you think is productive and positive? Is it about the grief aspect or is it just about showing a version of death that you can look at and touch? What do you think about that?
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I think the movie talks about death, frankly, from every angle. It's not just one way of talking about death. I think that's very. That. That's the magic of the movie. We have this. This fantastical way of seeing death and communicating with death, and it's. It's magic. And to be able to have those conversations is an interesting thing to consider. What would you say if you could talk to death? What would that be? And I don't know. I think it's the only way to have had sort of this, it's a very grand idea, but it was made very practical with this magic and it made it palatable, digestible even. So, she says ironically.
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And Dinah, how about for you, I want to hear about your own personal relationship. Relationship there. How do you talk about death in your circles? Do you talk about it a lot? How did. I mean, obviously you brought it to bear with this script, but talk a little bit about that.
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I think I really, you know, there's a lot of emphasis on being in the present moment in the film. The way that Tuesday grounds herself a lot of the time is through breathing and through being present. And I really came to think about death through that, that need and that, that emphasis on being in the present moment in the sense that my feeling is that. And I, I hope the film conveys that, that really life gains its meaning and gains its weight and wonder because of the fact that it has an expiration date. And if we, like Julia said, if we consider death and think about death and factor it into our life, we are more likely to have a rich and fulfilling life.
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A
Yeah.
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And we understand it. Yeah.
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A
And Julie, you know, you brought up something which is the way that we started this entire segment, which is if death were at your door, what would you say? And I feel like I have to ask if death came to your door. And this is for both of you. Julie, I'm going to look at you first. Do you have a sense of what you would say to death?
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Could it come back another time?
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Wonderful.
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A
Dinah, how about you?
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I think I really answered it in the film. I honestly feel like I would try and razzle dazzle him. I feel like I would tell him a joke and I, you know, I, I personally love very long jokes and I think a lot of people, unfortunate people at parties will attest to that. So I think that's what I try to do.
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A
I love it. The film is Tuesday. It's from a 24. We've been talking with Julia Louis Dreyfus, who is one of the stars in it, and Dinah Opusick, who is the director. And this is her directorial debut on a feature. Thank you both so much for your time and for hanging out.
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