Podcast Summary: All Of It – Julia Louis-Dreyfus Confronts Death in 'Tuesday'

Podcast: All Of It (WNYC)
Host: Kusha Navadar (in for Alison Stewart)
Guests: Julia Louis-Dreyfus (actor), Daina O. Pusić (director/screenwriter)
Air Date: June 11, 2024
Episode Theme: Exploring how the new film Tuesday (A24), starring Julia Louis-Dreyfus, compassionately confronts death, grief, and mother-daughter relationships through the lens of magical realism.

Overview

This episode dives into the making of Tuesday, a fantastical and melancholy film where “Death” appears as a talking bird to usher a terminally ill teen (Tuesday) and her mother, Zora (played by Julia Louis-Dreyfus), through the emotional terrain of loss, grief, and acceptance. Host Kusha Navadar speaks with Louis-Dreyfus and director Daina O. Pusić about their creative choices, the unique depiction of death, and why talking about mortality can be both poignant and necessary.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Shape of Death: Why a Bird?

[04:08]

• Daina O. Pusić shares that she envisioned Death with bird-like qualities for both its ability to shift between gentleness and menace, and for the expressive potential in performance:
  • “He needed to sort of be cuddly and friendly in one moment and then at the turn of the head be frightening, scary and foreign. And birds can have that quality. … Parrots could do all that.”
• The bird is more than a simple animal; it becomes an uncanny, sometimes monstrous presence via visual effects.

Choosing the Project: Julia’s Perspective

[05:04]

• Louis-Dreyfus was immediately "intrigued" by the script’s originality and profound themes.
  • “I’d never read anything like it. And the themes… spoke to me deeply.”
• Meeting Pusić was crucial before committing:
  • “I wanted to make sure that her vision for this film was clear and organized and thoughtful and had tenderness, all of which was confirmed for me. And so I took the leap of faith with Dinah and I’m all the better for it.”

Comedy vs. Drama: Finding Truth

[06:18]

• Julia on the overlap between comedy and drama:
  • “It's really just about coming from a real place of truth. Not truth adjacent, but truth. … If you can do that, you can nail either.”
  • Notes that comedy might be harder to fake but that both require the same authenticity.

Tone & Collaboration on Set

[08:08]

• Pusić and Louis-Dreyfus discuss concrete, scene-by-scene collaboration:
  • “Our discussions were always about the scene itself, the lines themselves… helped us just sort of take the jokes or take the scene on its own merit and not necessarily think about… the big theme of the film.” – Daina O. Pusić

Characterization: The Ferocity and Vulnerability of Zora

[09:04]

• Julia Louis-Dreyfus, being a mother, related to Zora’s relentless need to protect her child, and drew from real experiences of loss.
• She notes director Pusić's openness:
  • “Something that you do. You say, ‘Tell me.’ And it’s a very open-hearted way to communicate.”

Mother-Daughter Dynamics & Role Reversal

[11:17]

• Julia and Daina discuss how the film plays with the caretaker dynamic:
  • “Lola [Petticrew] was the parent to her mother, Zora, and… by the end of the film, it flips. … It was very important to [Lola] that they did not play the role [of Tuesday] as a victim—Tuesday’s a hero in this movie.” – Julia Louis-Dreyfus

[12:44]

• Daina:
  • “A daughter teaching her mother how to love her in the way that she should. … That relationship being a way of exploring the complexities of big love—it’s not always pretty or comfortable.”

Crafting Emotional Honesty & Overcoming Technical Hurdles

[14:15]

• Pusić’s greatest challenge was to keep emotional honesty intact through technical and creative complexities:
  • “Insisting on keeping it truthful… and having the energy and the strength to push for things that only I could have known at that specific moment was the biggest challenge.”
• Julia praises Daina’s rigorous preparation and leadership:
  • “We called her our fearless leader and still do, because she absolutely is.”

Creating the Bird: Performance and Visual Effects

[16:10]

• Daina explains the year-long, detailed planning with VFX to ensure Death’s transformation felt right in every scene.
• Crucially, the bird's presence was grounded by actor Arinze Kene on set, over whom animators could build in post-production:
  • “We based the character in an actor’s performance. ... His voice is completely undoctored. ... Finding someone of that caliber to portray Death was crucial.”

Acting Opposite Death

[18:00]

• Julia describes the importance of acting with another live performer (Kene) rather than imagining a CGI creature:
  • “Those scenes when I was negotiating with Death… to have someone there that I was playing off of meant everything.”

Mothers and Mortality: Zora's Relationship with Death

[18:41]

• Julia on Zora's reaction:

  • “When she encounters death, she knows she has to get rid of death. Death must go. … There isn't a mother in the world who wouldn't have that reaction.”

• Daina adds a memorable note about language:

  • “I remember when we were shooting that scene, Julia just came up to me and said, ‘I think I should call him an it.’ … She had to distance herself in that way and call him an it.”

Speaking About Death—In Life and Art

[19:58]

• Julia notes the culture of silence around mortality:
  • “I talk about it. I think it's a really interesting subject. … We're all going to encounter it. … There doesn’t seem to be enough conversation… I hope the film engenders that kind of conversation.”
• On the film’s approach:
  • “The movie talks about death, frankly, from every angle.… This fantastical way of seeing death … made it palatable, digestible even. So, she says ironically.” [20:51]

[22:05]

• Daina on the film’s existential stance:
  • “Really life gains its meaning and gains its weight and wonder because of the fact that it has an expiration date. … If we consider death… we are more likely to have a rich and fulfilling life.”

The Final Question: If Death Came to Your Door?

[23:18]

• Julia:
  • “Could it come back another time?”
• Daina:
  • “I would try and razzle dazzle him. … I love very long jokes and … that’s what I’d try to do.”

Notable Quotes

• Julia Louis-Dreyfus [06:18]:

  “It's really just about coming from a real place of truth. Not truth adjacent, but truth. And if you can do that, you can nail either [comedy or drama], in my view.”

• Daina O. Pusić [16:10]:

  “Preparation is one huge part of it. … We based the character in an actor’s performance.... Finding someone of that caliber and that talent to portray Death...was crucial.”

• Julia Louis-Dreyfus [11:17]:

  “Tuesday is not a victim. Actually. Tuesday’s a hero in this movie. And I think that’s important to point out.”

• Julia Louis-Dreyfus [19:58]:

  “There doesn’t seem to be enough conversation [about death]. I hope the film engenders that kind of conversation, but...it’s such a rich area.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Describing Death as a Bird: [04:08]
• Why Julia Chose the Project: [05:04]
• Comedy and Drama, The Truth Connection: [06:18]
• Levity and Tenderness, Sample Scene: [07:11]
• On-Set Collaboration: [08:08]
• Portraying Motherhood and Loss: [09:04]
• Depicting Role Reversal: [11:17]
• Director’s Thoughts on Mother-Daughter Dynamics: [12:44]
• Maintaining Truth Through Technical Challenges: [14:15]
• Creating the Bird with VFX: [16:10]
• Acting Opposite Death: [18:00]
• Mother's Reaction to Death: [18:41]
• Cultural Silence Around Death: [19:58]
• Film’s Existential Message: [22:05]
• If Death Knocked: The Final Question: [23:18]

Memorable Moments

• Julia’s playful self-reflection: “It makes me want to see the movie even though I’ve already seen it.” [03:18]
• The banter in the sample scene, highlighting the film’s blend of awkward humor and tension. [07:11]
• Consensus on the power and necessity of openly discussing death, both in art and in life.

Conclusion

This thoughtful, open conversation provides deep insight into Tuesday’s creative process and thematic resonance—particularly surrounding death, grief, truthfulness in performance, and the mother-daughter bond. Both Julia Louis-Dreyfus and Daina O. Pusić encourage listeners to rethink and destigmatize discussions of mortality, using cinematic fantasy as both invitation and salve.