All Of It with Alison Stewart: Julia Phillips on Her New Novel, 'Bear'

Original Air Date: August 27, 2024

Episode Overview

In this episode, host Alison Stewart welcomes acclaimed author Julia Phillips to discuss her much-anticipated second novel, 'Bear'. The conversation delves into the novel’s roots in Grimm's fairy tales, the themes of care, family, and class, and Phillips’ personal journey from literary success to writing a book that felt utterly thrilling and freeing. The interview covers the novel’s plot—set in the San Juan Islands with sisters Elena and Sam—its exploration of economic hardship, and the allure and symbolism of the bear itself. Phillips shares her process, research, and the emotional landscape that shapes both characters and story.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Path from Literary Success to Second Novel

• Julia reflects on the surreal experience of being regarded as a “successful writer” after her debut, Disappearing Earth, became a National Book Award finalist.

  “It remains five years in, disorienting and exciting and bizarre to think of that dream that I fostered for so long being an actual real life thing.” (03:12)

• On the pressure to quickly start a second book after success:

  “I was at that time really deep in the throes of a project that was pretty anxious and was not working... I put it aside, and I started a project that was weird and wild and exciting and connected to what I loved as a kid.” (05:24-06:30)

• Discovery that embracing what genuinely excited her (wild, bloody Grimm’s tales) led to a more joyful writing experience.

  “It was the most thrilling experience of my life. It was wonderful.” (06:30)

2. The Grimm’s Fairy Tale Foundation and Reimagining

• Bear is rooted in Snow White and Rose Red, a story Julia was “compelled by and dissatisfied with” as a child.

  “It was that dissatisfaction that I think was so compelling because the characters and the images, the relationships stick with you, but the plot didn’t quite make sense to me. And so I always thought about it...” (07:26-08:48)

• The novel channels these elements into a new plot with sisters Elena and Sam, reshaping familiar archetypes through modern, gritty lenses.

3. Caregiving, Family Obligation, and Social Safety Nets

• The sisters’ life: Caring for their terminally ill mother on a small island with few options.

  “They’re outside of the very thin, like, existing social safety nets that we have in this country... so they don’t have an option other than being her caretakers.” (09:07-10:21)

• Broader commentary on American caregiving gaps, family obligation, and systemic failure.

4. Dreams of Escape & The Weight of Responsibility

• Sam’s escapist fantasies versus Elena’s realism:

  “What she really wants is the feeling of freedom. She wants to feel free, she wants to feel unencumbered because she and her sister have been caring a really heavy weight for a really long time.” (10:30-11:34)

• Exploration of sibling dynamics, birth order, and the self-identities they construct in relation to care and rebellion.

  “Especially Sam, kind of defining herself as what her sister, her older sister is not... And then where does that leave them?” (11:45-13:07)

5. Theme of Class and Economic Precarity

• Sam’s job as a ferry worker highlights class differences and economic frustrations in a tourist-dependent community.

  “Both [the pandemic and parenthood] experiences kind of deliver the same economic lesson... you are totally alone unless you can pay for it.” (13:18-15:50)

• Julia draws from her own recent experiences with new parenthood and the pandemic, intensifying her awareness of economic isolation and vulnerability.

6. The Bear as Catalyst and Symbol

• First encounter with the bear: Julia reads an atmospheric passage from the novel.

  "'There, not 10 ft away, was the animal's massive body... its muscles rippled... a dark stripe of fur lay over its spine.'" (16:02-18:20)

• Elena becomes obsessed—possibly to her own detriment—with the bear. The bear offers escape and novelty but is interpreted by the sisters through their own needs and projections.

  “She has feelings about it... we can see how badly she needed an escape all this time, that it’s been really difficult for her to carry this same burden.” (20:11-21:50)

7. Bear Research and the Line Between Realism and Fairy Tale

• Julia describes researching bears through memoirs (Eye of the Wild), documentaries, and even her own close encounters during her Russia research.

  “I read a lot of books about bears, which was great, and listened to a lot of podcasts actually... and I had some personal experiences to draw on...” (18:26-19:54)

• The bear’s characteristics are grounded, physical, and ambiguous—not a magical prince, but a large, real animal with unknowable motivations.

  “I wanted the bear... to feel very, very, very much like a bear... It’s mysterious to them not because it’s magical, but because it’s another way of being in the world that is by its very nature a mystery.” (22:02-23:56)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On literary success:

  “It surprises me to be sitting here hearing that question from you. That’s pretty surprising even now.” (03:27, Julia Phillips)

• On resetting her approach to writing:

  “I put it aside, and I started a project that was weird and wild and exciting and connected to what I loved as a kid.” (05:24, Julia Phillips)

• On economic gaps revealed by motherhood and the pandemic:

  “Both of those experiences kind of deliver the same economic lesson, which... you are totally alone unless you can pay for it.” (14:10, Julia Phillips)

• Describing the sisters’ position:

  “They’re outside of the very thin, like, existing social safety nets that we have in this country.” (09:07, Julia Phillips)

• On the bear’s “realness”:

  “It’s not enchanted prince like—it is its physicality, its behavior, it’s mysterious to them not because it’s magical, but because it's another way of being in the world that is by its very nature a mystery.” (22:37, Julia Phillips)

Key Segment Timestamps

• Introduction to 'Bear' and Julia Phillips – 01:50
• Julia’s reaction to literary success – 03:12
• How and why the second novel shifted directions – 04:25-06:53
• Childhood fascination with 'Snow White and Rose Red' – 07:14-08:48
• Sisters’ family circumstances and limited choices – 09:07-10:21
• Sam’s and Elena’s different coping styles – 10:30-11:45
• Class and economic pressure in the setting – 13:07-15:50
• Julia reads from 'Bear'—first bear encounter – 16:02-18:20
• Bear research process & inspiration – 18:20-19:54
• Elena’s obsession with the bear & its meaning – 20:00-21:50
• Intention in writing the bear’s character – 22:02-23:56
• Conclusion and thanks – 24:13

Tone & Atmosphere

The conversation is candid, warm, and reflective. Julia Phillips is self-deprecating about literary fame, open about her writing struggles, and deeply thoughtful about the real-world issues her novel addresses. Alison Stewart skillfully guides the conversation to balance the literary, the personal, and the urgent socio-economic context in which Bear was written.

Summary for Non-Listeners

This episode offers an insightful exploration into not just Julia Phillips' creative process and new novel, but also the ways in which personal and societal pressures—family illness, economic hardship, new motherhood, and the shock of a pandemic—shape art. Bear emerges as a modern fairy tale, rooted in reality and emotional truth, in which the appearance of a bear becomes catalyst for sisters trapped by circumstance, longing for escape but constrained by love and obligation. Phillips’ conversation will resonate with anyone interested in how contemporary literature draws from myth to examine the hard truths of family and class in America.