Kat Ashmore's Debut Cookbook (Food for Thought)

Summary

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Podcast Summary: All Of It on WNYC

Episode: Kat Ashmore's Debut Cookbook ("Food for Thought" Series)

Date: February 1, 2024
Host: Alison Stewart
Guest: Kat Ashmore, chef and author of Big Bites: Wholesome, Comforting Recipes that are Big on Flavor, Nourishment and Fun

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Overview

This episode, part of the "Food for Thought" series on All Of It, features Kat Ashmore, a professionally trained chef and social media star known for her "Hungry Lady Salads." Ashmore discusses her debut cookbook, which highlights vibrant, hearty, and healthy recipes—mostly salads, but not exclusively, and many are gluten-free. The conversation explores how to make salads appealing and sustainable in daily eating, responds to social media reactions, and dives into inclusive, comforting recipes for various palates and dietary needs. Kat also announces the exciting news of her book debuting as a New York Times bestseller.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Cookbook’s Inspiration & Approach to Healthy Eating

• Buck the "Deprivation Month" Mindset
  Kat was inspired to write the book during January—a time perceived as full of food restrictions for many. She sought to create recipes for people who "just want to eat better," outside the boundaries of specific diets (paleo, vegan, keto).

  "There were all of these places for people to turn to... but what about all of the people that just want to eat better, that don't want to go on a specific program, but just want to eat better?"
  —Kat Ashmore [02:31]

Making Salad Convenient and Exciting

• Three Steps to Start Eating More Salads

  1. Pick a Salad That Lasts: Start with hearty salads that "can stay good in the fridge for five, six days" for grab-and-go lunches (e.g., Tuscan kale salad).
  2. Shop for Inspiration: Visit a farmer’s market or a grocery store that excites you, to draw energy from seasonal produce.
  3. Master One Dressing: Learn one versatile homemade dressing you'll love, so you can ditch store-bought bottles.

  "I've had so, so much feedback from people who have said that they've stopped buying salad dressing after making these."
  —Kat Ashmore [03:39–04:35]

• Tips for Salad Longevity:
  Use hardy greens (kale, chard, cabbage, fennel) instead of fragile ones to make salads that last all week.

  "Think outside of the box, a little bit past the traditional salad greens. Those are hearty. They're going to stand up well in the fridge."
  —Kat Ashmore [05:19]

Social Media, Gender, and Food

• Tackling Sexist Critiques Around Eating Habits
  After her viral kale salad videos, Kat received comments criticizing her for taking "big bites," a criticism rarely directed at men.

  "Where is this idea that women need to be so precious and so proper around food? ...Maybe eating like a lady means unapologetically owning pleasure and owning your joy."
  —Kat Ashmore [06:35–07:30]

• Embracing ‘Big Bites’
  The cookbook title is a direct response, empowering enjoyment without apology.

Signature Recipes and Cooking Techniques

• Warm Orzo Salad with Balsamic Mushrooms

  • Cooking Mushrooms Right: Use a hot pan and don’t overcrowd; salt at the end for best browning.

    "Hot pan, don't overcrowd it. Salt it at the end and you're good."
    —Kat Ashmore [08:01]

  • Using Fontina Cheese:

    "Make sure that it is a really flavorful cheese so that you're getting a lot of punch and a lot of bang for your buck."
    —Kat Ashmore [09:34]

• Lentil Chopped Salad with Feta and Honey Walnut Dressing

  • Lentils "play well with others"—pair with acids and creamy elements for balance, not just a bowl of lentils.

    "I love to pair lentils with a nice amount of acid, some creaminess. I mean, lentils are a really nice, earthy backdrop to so many different flavors."
    —Kat Ashmore [10:43]

• Snow Day Beef and Vegetable Stew with Pasta

  • Uses affordable ground beef and is designed for freezing (add pasta fresh after thawing).

    "The beef adds that richness. It adds the protein that's gonna keep you nice and full and satisfied."
    —Kat Ashmore [12:01] "I would freeze it and then I would just boil up some pasta... and put a ladle of pasta into a bowl, top it with the soup that you've thawed from the freezer and you're good to go."
    —Kat Ashmore [12:32]

Gluten-Free and Inclusive Cooking

• Baking Without Gluten

  • Specialized flour blends (like Bob’s Red Mill 1-to-1 or Cup4Cup) work best for swapping with all-purpose flour in recipes; nut flours function differently and usually need to be blended.

    "They don't have any gluten so they're not going to hold together. So I tend to use those types of flours along with an all purpose flour that has some protein in it."
    —Kat Ashmore [15:59–16:50]

• Three-Year Gluten-Free Bread Recipe

  • Kat’s personal favorite (and most hard-won):

    "I spent three years of my life perfecting that recipe. So it's the one I'm most proud of."
    —Kat Ashmore [18:15]

Breakfast, Storage, and Dessert Innovations

• Early Riser Routine and Breakfast Chapter

  • Kat wakes at 4:30 or 5 AM, exemplifying a "morning person" attitude for her breakfast recipes [13:05].

• Overnight Coconut Cream Pie Oats

  • Nutritious due to coconut milk, toasted coconut, chia seeds, and oats.
  • Foolproof as long as you let it set overnight.

    "The oats and the chia seeds can thicken up and it'll almost act like a gelatin."
    —Kat Ashmore [14:03]

• Storage Tips

  • You can prep salads in advance and often store everything mixed together. For finicky ingredients, Tupperware or compartmented containers can help but aren’t always necessary.

    "With the salads in my book, you can just mix everything together."
    —Kat Ashmore [15:11]

• Dark Chocolate Earl Grey Mousse (Vegan!)

  • Inspired by vegan puddings using tofu for texture—simple, impressive, and "just tastes like a really light and creamy chocolate mousse."

  "Tofu provides the perfect texture. It's tasteless. It takes on whatever flavors you put it with."
  —Kat Ashmore [17:11]

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Social Media Critique and "Big Bites"

  "Maybe eating like a lady means unapologetically owning pleasure and owning your joy and expressing it."
  —Kat Ashmore [07:20]

• On Accessibility of Recipes

  "I really try to make use of affordable cuts of meat that a lot of people can easily find in their grocery stores...important to me regarding the inclusivity of these recipes."
  —Kat Ashmore [11:27]

• On Ditching Store-Bought Salad Dressing

  "I've had so, so much feedback from people who've said they've stopped buying salad dressing after making these."
  —Kat Ashmore [04:35]

• Playful Banter on Early Rising

  Alison: "Is it true that you get up at 4:30 every day?"
  Kat: "I've been sleeping in until 6 or so."
  —[13:02–13:14]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:31] Kat celebrates her New York Times bestseller status.
• [02:27] Origins of the cookbook and January’s influence.
• [03:39] Three steps to start eating more salads.
• [05:19] How to make a salad last all week.
• [06:35] Responding to sexist comments and the "Big Bites" title.
• [08:01] Sautéing mushrooms perfectly.
• [10:43] Pairing lentils in salads for best results.
• [12:01] Snow Day Beef and Vegetable Stew.
• [13:05] Kat’s early morning routine and breakfast chapter.
• [14:03] Tips for successful overnight oats.
• [15:11] Advice on organizing salad ingredients and containers.
• [15:59] Important notes on gluten-free baking.
• [17:11] The story behind the vegan Dark Chocolate Earl Grey Mousse.
• [18:15] Kat shares the personal significance of her gluten-free bread recipe.

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Conclusion

This lively episode spotlights Kat Ashmore’s fresh, inclusive approach to meal prep, emphasizing joyful eating, home-cooking hacks, and body-positive messaging. The conversation is sprinkled with community questions and kitchen wisdom, making it both practical and empowering for anyone looking to embrace healthful, flavor-forward cooking—no deprivation required. Ashmore’s warmth and humor shine as she shares not only recipes, but lessons in resilience, creativity, and pleasure at the table.

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Transcript

[Alison Stewart]

Foreign.

[Host 2]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. We at all of it, we like food a lot and it seems you our listeners do too. So we've decided to make it the radio equivalent of Instagram official and put a day aside each week to talk about food and food adjacent stories, whether it's say, a new cookbook or composting or a story about food culture like tipping or the best places in the city for dark chocolate. It's National Dark Chocolate Day, by the way. I plan on celebrating. We are calling the series Food for Thought. Last Thursday we spoke with chef Jamie Oliver about his new Mediterranean inspired cookbook. And today we're talking about hearty food that's also healthy. Our guest is a woman who likes salads, specifically what she has dubbed Hungry lady salads. Kat Ashmore makes zucchini pasta salad with sun dried tomatoes and mozzarella and Tuscan kale salad with lemon tahini dressing that features chickpeas and walnuts. And by the way, this per professionally trained chef sees no problem eating salad with a spoon. And now she's put all her years of cooking and recipe development to use for her debut cookbook, which has about 110 recipes, not all salads and many of them gluten free. It's called Big Wholesome comforting recipes that are big on flavor, nourishment and fun. And some breaking news that you just found out last night, Kat, you're a New York Times bestselling author, officially. Congratulations.

[Kat Ashmore]

I am. It sounds, it's still so surreal. I'm sort of like, who is she? Who is she talking about? Thank you. Thanks for having me. Allison.

[Host 2]

Listeners, we want to get you in on the conversation. Do you have any cooking questions for Kat? Maybe you have a favorite recipe of cats you'd like to shout out? Maybe you want to tell us what's your go to salad recipe that you'd like to share with fellow listeners and team. All of it. You can call us. Join us on air 212-433-WNYC 212-433-9692. You can call in, talk to us, you can text to us at that number as well or reach out via our socials at all of it, wnyc. So Kat, in the book you say the idea came to you to write this in the month of January, which you call, quote, traditionally the month of deprivation. What made you want to buck that whole I am going to change my eating habits and I'm going to, I'm going to quote Be good, unquote.

[Kat Ashmore]

Well, I found myself looking around in early January, thinking to myself that there were all of these places for people to turn to if they had a specific diet that they were following. You know, everybody's thinking the new Year, new you. They want their. They want to fit back in their clothes, they want to have more energy, they want to feel more present, happier generally. And I'm thinking, you know, they can go here if they are paleo, they can go here if they're vegan, here if they're keto. But what about all of the people that just want to eat better, that don't want to go on a specific program, but just want to eat better, they want to feel better, they want their families to eat better. And I felt like that was my space, that that was a space that I could step into and sort of fill that void for a lot of people like me that eat that way.

[Alison Stewart]

So let's say someone is thinking, you know what, I really should get more salads into, into my diet, into my overall eating patterns. What are some things you can recommend that can help you get started? Because sometimes salads can feel overwhelming. I gotta chop all this. I gotta think about Dr. What are a few things people can do? Three things to get on the salad bandwagon.

[Kat Ashmore]

Three things to get on the salad bandwagon. So I think the first thing is to pick a salad that is going to be able to last through the week in the refrigerator. So something like my Tuscan kale salad, for instance, which is one of the most popular recipes. It was the first salad recipe, actually, in the Hungry lady salad series, and the one that really paved the way for all of the rest of them. That one can stay good in the fridge for five, six days. So you have got a salad just ready to go. You make it once, and then you've got your lunches sorted for the rest of the week. The second thing that you can do is go to a farmer's market. If you can take the time, try to go to a farmer's market. If you can't get to a farmer's market, go to a grocery store that makes you happy. Even if you don't buy anything. Just surround yourself with seasonal produce and let season some of the excitement about the seasons and what is available to you now and what is happening outside sort of seep into you. It will change the way that your family eats. And number three, I think, learn how to make a good salad dressing. One that you can always have on hand, that you can Use as a dip for veggies or for meats, of course, as a salad dressing. But in my chapter in Big Bites, the Hungry lady salad chapter, there are 18 Hungry lady salads and they all have their own salad dressing. And I've had so, so much feedback from people who have said that they've stopped buying salad dressing after making these. So.

[Host 2]

All right, I have to go back to something you said in your number one. How does one make a salad last a week?

[Kat Ashmore]

So the way to do that is, number one, you want to take a hearty green. So that's going to be super important. You don't want to use a delicate green butter leaf lettuce here. You want to use something that is like a Swiss chard or a kale cabbage fennel. Think outside of the box, a little bit past the traditional salad greens. Those are hearty. They're going to stand up well in the fridge. They're going to hold up well even when dressed oftentimes. So that's really the most important element.

[Host 2]

My guest is Kat Ashmore. She's the author of Big Bites, Wholesome, comforting recipes that are big on flavor nourishment and, and fun. Before we get into more recipes, I feel like I need to ask you about this. So the Tuscan kale salad blew up on TikTok, right?

[Kat Ashmore]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And then it was as. So as happens on social media, you started getting some flack, mostly sexist flack, about taking big bites, about the way you were eating the salads. Like somebody wrote, not quote, not eating like a lady. Someone even wrote, all you're eating is going to catch up with you one day. So you, I love that you went and go ahead, went ahead and called your book Big Bites because you take big bites. What made you want to go ahead and clap back and address this?

[Kat Ashmore]

It felt like a conversation that really I wanted to lean into. And anytime that I'm getting a lot of criticism around the same type of thing, it says to me, right or wrong, there's something here. You know, there's something underlying that people are thinking about. And of course, it occurred to me that this type of feedback never goes toward men. And a lot of the criticism that I was getting was sort of these backhanded compliments of, you're so pretty and, you know, you dress so well and you, you're so well put together. And then you take these big bites of food. And I just was like, where is this idea that women need to be so precious and so proper around food? Like, where is that coming from. And so I really just wanted to come at the whole concept of eating like a lady from a different point of view. Maybe eating like a lady means unapologetically owning pleasure and owning your joy and expressing it. And I think that we could all use a little bit more of that as women.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's take a look at some of the salads as well as some of the other recipes.

[Host 2]

Warm orzo salad with balsamic mushrooms what.

[Alison Stewart]

Is the key to bringing out a. A good flavor in a mushroom? Using a mushroom properly so it doesn't end up being just like a little spongy thing.

[Kat Ashmore]

Yeah. So one of the biggest things is I will just rub my mushrooms with a damp towel to get rid of any grit. Mushrooms have a ton of water in them, so you want to make sure that you are sauteing them in a nice hot skillet with a good amount of fat so that they can get nice and browned on you. If you're salting them right away, it's going to pull out too much moisture. If you're overcrowding the pan, it's going to make them steam. So they're a little. They sound a little bit high maintenance until you do it once and you realize, hot pan, don't overcrowd it. Salt it at the end and you're good.

[Alison Stewart]

It's a warm salad. People heard you say, put the mushrooms in a pan. What's important to understand when you're making a warm salad so that it doesn't go south.

[Kat Ashmore]

So if you're going to be storing it in the fridge for the week, you want to make sure that any of your ingredients that you're putting together are at room temperature before you do that. That's going to be the biggest thing. Because if you've got hot mushrooms and cold lettuce, you and I both know what's going to happen. It's going to end up wilting the lettuce really quickly. And that's just a sad, sad state of affairs. So you want to enjoy it right away. If you're going to be storing it for the rest of the week, just store it separately.

[Alison Stewart]

You use fontina cheese in this warm orzo salad with balsamic mushrooms. What do you like about fontina cheese and what work is it doing here?

[Kat Ashmore]

The fontina is that nice, sharp, buttery bite of cheese. I oftentimes, if I'm just adding a half a cup of cheese, for instance, I will make sure that it is a really flavorful cheese so that you're getting A lot of punch and a lot of bang for your buck with each bit of cheese. And fontina does it beautifully here. It also has its Italian origins, so it plays really well with the orzo and the balsamic.

[Alison Stewart]

My guest is Kat Ashmore. She's a chef. She's chef and author of Big Bites. Wholesome, comforting recipes that are big on flavor, nourishment and fun. If you have any cooking questions for Kat, give us a call, 212-433-WNYC 212-433-9692. You can call in and join us on air or you can reach out at our socialslovenyc. You can also text us at the number 212-433-WNYC. Or maybe you have a Go to salad recipe you'd like to share with everybody. We'd love to hear it. Part of our Food for Thought series. Lentil Chopped Salad with Feta and Honey Walnut Dressing. In the description you write, Kat, lentils play well with others. How so?

[Kat Ashmore]

Mm. I often find that lentil salads just taste too much like lentils. And I love lentils, but I don't want a whole big bowl of just lentils. Right. I want a lot of other stuff going on. So I love to pair lentils with a nice amount of acid, some creaminess. I mean, lentils are a really nice, earthy backdrop to so many different flavors.

[Host 2]

All right, so we've been talking about salads, but you do have things in the book for carnivores.

[Kat Ashmore]

Oh, yes.

[Host 2]

Yeah. We're deep into the gray winter here in our listening area, folks. Upstate New York have some snow and you have a recipe called Snow Day Beef and Vegetable Stew with Pasta. What kind of beef do you use here?

[Kat Ashmore]

So I use just a ground beef for this, I think, you know, I really try to make use of affordable cuts of meat that a lot of people can easily find in their grocery stores. I venture out a little bit, but by and large, these are things that are going to be widely available. And that was important to me in as far as regarding the inclusivity of these recipes.

[Alison Stewart]

All right.

[Host 2]

In Snow Day, not only is beef, there's also bacon. So what do beef and bacon bring out when they're used together?

[Kat Ashmore]

Well, first the bacon provides the cooking fat. So I love to use, I love to render bacon in this way. So starting it in a cold pan, it renders the fat, which then is used as the cooking fat for the rest of the soup. And it really infuses so much delicious, salty meaty flavor into the soup. And then of course, the beef adds that richness. It adds the protein that's gonna keep you nice and full and satisfied.

[Host 2]

Can you freeze this?

[Kat Ashmore]

You can freeze the soup itself. I wouldn't freeze the pasta. So what I would do simply because once you freeze pasta, it changes the texture. I would freeze it and then I would just boil up some pasta and put a ladle of pasta into a bowl, top it with the soup that you've thawed from the freezer and you're good to go.

[Alison Stewart]

Now, the book actually doesn't start with salads, although that's what has blown up.

[Host 2]

For you on TikTok.

[Alison Stewart]

The first chapter is about breakfast food. It's called Morning Person.

[Host 2]

First of all, is it true that.

[Alison Stewart]

You get up at 4:30 every day?

[Kat Ashmore]

I'll, I'll be honest, the last week or so I've been sleeping in until 6 or so.

[Host 2]

All the way until 6.

[Kat Ashmore]

I have because I've been so, you know, so richly scheduled with the book, which has been amazing. But typically I do get up around 4:30 or 5. I don't even use an alarm. It's just when my body wakes up.

[Alison Stewart]

So we have overnight coconut cream pie. Oats might be something you have in the morning. It sounds a little bit about like dessert. Where's the nutritional value coming from in this recipe?

[Kat Ashmore]

So you've got a lot of healthy fats from the coconut milk. So we've got a double dose of coconut, both from the coconut milk and from the toasted coconut. And then you've got chia seeds and you've got oats. So you've got a good amount of fiber, you've got protein and healthy fats.

[Alison Stewart]

How do I have successful overnight oats? How does one make sure? How can you set yourself up for success?

[Kat Ashmore]

Honestly, this is one of the almost foolproof recipes because of course, I hate to call anything foolproof because then if it doesn't work for someone, they're like, wow, what does that say about me? But the most important thing is just to put it in the fridge for long enough. So you really do want to let this hang out in the fridge overnight so. So that the oats and the chia seeds can thicken up and it'll almost act like a gelatin. It'll turn it into that nice firm consistency that's very scoopable.

[Alison Stewart]

The next day you see em off in overnight oats in very cute little jam jars. But if someone doesn't have that, what would you recommend?

[Kat Ashmore]

You can do it in Tupperware. You can even do it in a large Tupperware. If you don't wanna portion it out, you can just do it in a large Tupperware. Anything that has a lid and can be refrigerated.

[Alison Stewart]

So funny you should say that. We got a text about storage and Tupperware. Hi Cat. I love a big salad, but I can't stand the preparation. Having to assemble all the parts from all these different little Tupperware containers. Are you aware of any container that has multiple separate compartments where I could place all the items at the beginning of the week and then assemble a salad each night? Thank you, Winter from Trenton, New Jersey.

[Kat Ashmore]

Well, you know, I know that Systema makes some Tupperware containers that have the different compartments to them, but oftentimes, at least with the salads in my book, you can just mix everything together. We're really trying to make it so that each day you can just pull it out of the fridge and it's ready to go.

[Alison Stewart]

Another text says my go to comfort food salad baby spinach prosciutto broiled and made crispy, freshly shredded parmesan and thrown together with balsamic vinaigrette. That person knows what's going on. I do want to note before we run out of time that you have gluten free recipes in in the book and you have a gluten free bread. You have a New York style crumb cake that's that's gluten free. What are some things to keep in mind when you are cooking without gluten?

[Kat Ashmore]

The biggest thing is going to be when it comes to baking because gluten free flour behaves differently than all purpose gluten free flour. So it is very simple to swap in regular all purpose flour when I call for gluten free all purpose flour. But the opposite is not always true. So if you just take any recipe that you find out there that calls for all purpose flour, you really do need to find something like I love the Bob's Red Mill one to one baking flour or the cup for cup baking flour. That is usually an even swap. But almond flour, coconut flour, oat flour, they all behave very differently. They don't have any gluten so they're not going to hold together. So I tend to use those types of flours along with an all purpose flour that has some protein in it.

[Host 2]

I want to ask you about dark chocolate Earl Grey mousse. We're talking desserts now. As I mentioned, it is National Dark Chocolate Day. I don't know who made that up. But I like that person.

[Kat Ashmore]

Love it.

[Host 2]

Yep. So wait, dark chocolate Earl Grey mousse. And it's vegan. What inspired this one?

[Kat Ashmore]

This one was inspired by you. Just the concept of using tofu as the base for a pudding. And then I decided that I was going to turn it up a little bit more. I was going to add some dark chocolate I had first had this concept with. It was sort of a key lime avocado pie that I had had. And it tasted good, but it was a lot of work. And I'm just thinking to myself, I don't if, if I'm going to spend this much time on something, I'm going to be making a layer cake. So I decided let's just make this as easy as possible. And tofu provides the perfect texture. It's tasteless. It takes on whatever flavors you put it with. So when you've got it with the maple syrup, the dark chocolate, a little bit of Earl Grey tea just for that sort of nice floral background, a pinch of salt, vanilla, it just tastes like a really light and creamy chocolate mousse.

[Alison Stewart]

What's your favorite recipe in the book?

[Kat Ashmore]

It would have to be the three year gluten free bread because I spent three years of my life perfecting that recipe. So it's the one I'm most proud of. But I mean, there are so many. That New York crumb cake that you mentioned is very near and dear to my heart because it's based off of those, you know, little hunks of Saran Wrap enclosed crumb cakes where the crumb is half the size of the actual cake, you know, and it's at every corner store in New York. It's just a healthier version.

[Alison Stewart]

The name of the book is Big Bites. It's from Kat Ashmore.

[Host 2]

Kat, thank you for being with us.

[Kat Ashmore]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Alison Stewart]

A reminder, listeners, coming up Next on FRESH AIR, WNYC's own Kai Wright. He joins host Tanya Mosley to talk about the podcast Blindspot. The Plague in the Shadows. It takes us to New York in the mid-80s and 90s when HIV first took root. And that is all of it for today. I'm Alison Stewart. I appreciate you listening. I appreciate you. I will meet you back here next time.

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