All Of It: A Deep Dive into Kaveh Akbar's 'Martyr!'

Host: Alison Stewart
Guest: Kaveh Akbar
Episode Title: Kaveh Akbar's 'Martyr!' (Debut Day)
Release Date: February 27, 2025
Podcast: All Of It
Publisher: WNYC

Introduction to the Episode

In this episode of All Of It, host Alison Stewart engages with acclaimed poet and novelist Kaveh Akbar to discuss his debut novel, Martyr!, which recently became a finalist for the National Book Award and has just been released in paperback. The conversation delves into Akbar's transition from poetry to novel writing, the inspirations behind Martyr!, and the complex themes of life, death, and martyrdom explored in the narrative.

From Poetry to Novel: Akbar's Writing Journey

Alison Stewart opens the discussion by inquiring about Akbar's shift from poetry to novel writing. Akbar reflects on his initial perceptions of a writer's life:

Kaveh Akbar [02:11]: "I always wanted to be a writer and I assumed that that meant that I would be living life in tuberculine squalor, you know, and working a terrible day job and, you know, smok cigarettes and hacking away at the typewriter at night."

Akbar shares the challenges he faced in adapting his poetic instincts to the demands of novelistic narrative. He discusses the aspects of poetry that translated well, such as crafting profound dialogues, and the elements that required significant adjustment, like detailing mundane actions and building coherent narratives.

Kaveh Akbar [02:34]: "What was not feel natural was getting people through doorways and onto airplanes and explaining how people got money to buy their plane tickets and who picks up the coffee tab and these sorts of things."

To bridge this gap, Akbar undertook an intensive study of novels and films, immersing himself in storytelling techniques to enhance his narrative structure.

Kaveh Akbar [02:40]: "I did an intensive narrative study. I was reading two novels a week and watching a movie a day... just trying to consume everything that I could in this absolutely kleptomaniacal way."

He emphasizes the intricate nature of novelistic storytelling, where minor shifts early in the narrative can have profound effects later on.

Kaveh Akbar [03:36]: "These reverberations are so mammoth in a way that doesn't really have a direct correlative in lyric poetry."

Exploring the Novel's Plot and Historical Inspirations

Martyr! centers on Cyrus, a young Iranian American poet grappling with his desire to become a martyr. The novel intertwines personal trauma with historical events, notably the tragic downing of an Iranian civilian airliner by the U.S. Navy in 1988.

Kaveh Akbar [04:08]: "I wanted to tell this story when it happened. Then Vice President George H.W. Bush said, I don't care what the facts are. I'm not an apologize for America sort of person. So just these really, really, really chilling moments where 290 civilians were just shot out of the sky."

Akbar explains that this real-life incident serves as a pivotal backdrop for Cyrus's internal struggles and his quest for a meaningful death that contrasts with his parents' untimely and less impactful demises.

Kaveh Akbar [05:33]: "Like the idea that Cyrus could have been the 67th."

This historical layer adds depth to the novel, exploring themes of memory, loss, and the search for significance in one's actions and ultimate fate.

Character Analysis: Cyrus's Complex Persona

Cyrus is portrayed as a flawed and multifaceted character. His job as a medical actor—a real-life profession inspired by Leslie Jamison's Empathy Exams—adds another layer to his complexity.

Kaveh Akbar [05:36]: "Cyrus could have been the 67th child if not for his mother leaving him at home."

Cyrus's interactions, particularly with a medical student, reveal his abrasive and narcissistic traits. Akbar candidly discusses his intention to present a protagonist who embodies realistic imperfections rather than an idealized hero.

Kaveh Akbar [07:53]: "I think that anyone who performs as though they are achieving perfect 100 out of 100 ethical fitness at every moment in their lives is probably not being very rigorous about their own searching."

This authenticity fosters a connection between Cyrus and readers, making him a relatable yet challenging figure.

Personal Reflections: Addiction and Sobriety

Akbar integrates his personal experiences with addiction and recovery into Cyrus's character development. He has been in recovery for ten years, and these experiences heavily inform Cyrus's journey.

Kaveh Akbar [08:33]: "I've been in recovery for 10 years and change. I am an addict. And of course Cyrus is indelibly inflected by my own experiences of recovery."

Cyrus's struggle with sobriety and his emotional void in the absence of addiction highlight themes of loss, identity, and the quest for purpose beyond chemical dependencies.

Kaveh Akbar [09:52]: "He is trying to figure out what to do with the sense of having lived past his peaks."

The Artist's Performance and the Brooklyn Museum Setting

A significant plot element involves an Iranian artist, Orchide, who chooses to spend her final days at the Brooklyn Museum, engaging with visitors about death and dying. Akbar explains his choice of this setting as a deliberate move to juxtapose the artificiality of societal perceptions of death with the raw reality presented by Orchide.

Kaveh Akbar [12:10]: "So this artist, Orchide is doing a kind of... present-esque performance of her own dying at the Brooklyn Museum."

The Brooklyn Museum serves as a symbolic space where the boundaries between art, life, and death blur, allowing Cyrus to confront his own mortality and beliefs about martyrdom.

Conversations that Challenge and Transform

Cyrus's interactions with Orchide challenge his lofty ideals about martyrdom and meaningful death. These dialogues serve as catalysts for his personal transformation, pushing him to question and reassess his motivations and desires.

Kaveh Akbar [14:07]: "She makes fun of some of his ideas... she kind of pushes back on his shtick a little bit in a way that is humbling and dignifying for him and usefully complicates his thinking."

Through these conversations, Cyrus is navigated towards a deeper understanding of himself and his place in the world, moving away from a rigid quest for martyrdom to a more nuanced appreciation of life and death.

Reflections on Historical Martyrs

Throughout his research, Akbar encountered numerous historical figures whose sacrifices have left lasting impacts. These martyrs—from Hypatia of Alexandria to Bhagat Singh and Bobby Sands—inspire Cyrus's own yearning for a significant legacy.

Kaveh Akbar [15:14]: "Bhagat Singh was an Indian revolutionary who was killed very young, and he wrote some extraordinarily, extraordinarily moving language around his ideas."

These reflections not only enrich the novel's thematic depth but also underscore the universal human desire to leave a meaningful imprint on the world.

Conclusion: Embracing Complexity and Realism

In wrapping up the conversation, Akbar emphasizes his intent to present a world filled with morally complex characters and realistic struggles, moving away from simplistic dichotomies of good versus evil. His portrayal of Cyrus and the intricate narrative structure aims to reflect the multifaceted nature of human existence and cultural context.

Kaveh Akbar [07:53]: "Hopefully what I hope to do is create something that looks a little bit more like the reality in which we live and less like the marvelified reality of like monolithic good guys versus monolithic bad guys."

Martyr! stands as a testament to Akbar's literary evolution, blending poetic sensibilities with novelistic storytelling to explore profound themes of identity, loss, and the quest for meaning.

Thank you for listening to this detailed summary of the "All Of It" episode featuring Kaveh Akbar. If you're interested in exploring the intricate layers of Martyr! and the thoughts behind its creation, this episode offers invaluable insights.