Kyle Buchanan on 'Glicked'

Summary

Podcast Summary: All Of It – Episode Featuring Kyle Buchanan on 'Glicked'

Podcast Information

• Title: All Of It
• Host: Alison Stewart
• Producer: WNYC
• Episode Title: Kyle Buchanan on 'Glicked'
• Release Date: November 25, 2024
• Description: All Of It delves into cultural phenomena, engaging with creators and consumers to explore the nuances of various cultural outputs. This episode features an in-depth discussion with Kyle Buchanan from The New York Times about the highly anticipated films Wicked and Gladiator 2 (referred to as Glicked and Wadiator in the transcript).

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Introduction

Alison Stewart opens the episode by welcoming listeners and introducing the day's topics. The focus is on two major film releases: Wicked and Gladiator 2. She briefly mentions other cultural projects, including a compilation album, a new album listening party with Thurston Moore, and insights from screenwriter Justin Kariskas. However, the primary discussion centers on the films in question.

Discussion on Wicked

Director John Chu's Influence

• Kyle Buchanan [02:17]: Highlights John Chu's background in dance and musical films, notably the Step Up franchise. He appreciates Chu's ability to handle large-scale dance numbers, a key element in Wicked. Chu's success in adapting the Broadway musical comes after notable filmmakers like J.J. Abrams and Ryan Murphy showed interest but couldn't bring the project to fruition. Chu not only directed the first installment but is also slated to direct the sequel, releasing the following year.

Notable Quote:

"John Chu got this [Wicked] off of In the Heights, and he'll also be directing part two of Wicked, which comes out next year." — Kyle Buchanan [02:17]

Film Style and Execution

• John Chu's Style: Incorporates dynamic dance sequences with an emphasis on enthusiasm and choreography. However, Buchanan notes that the film excels during its quieter, more intimate moments, particularly through Cynthia Erivo's portrayal of Elphaba.

Notable Quote:

"It has the virtue of starring Cynthia Erivo as Elphaba, and she's giving a very controlled, human-sized performance in a movie that is very large and epic." — Kyle Buchanan [04:06]

Strengths and Weaknesses

• Strengths: The dance number "Dancing Through Life" is lauded for its impressive choreography and rotating sets. Cynthia Erivo's nuanced performance brings depth to Elphaba, making the character relatable and cinematic rather than purely theatrical.

• Weaknesses: The absence of a singular, iconic visual akin to the original Wizard of Oz's vibrant imagery. Buchanan suggests that the film's more desaturated and naturalistic approach lacks a memorable aesthetic anchor.

Notable Quote:

"There's not that one really strong visual, that thing that you're going to remember, that frame that feels epic and iconic." — Kyle Buchanan [05:01]

Audience Reception and Call-ins

Listener Charlotte's Perspective [06:55]:

Charlotte, a long-time fan of Wicked, shares her emotional connection to the story, having first seen it on Broadway as a child. She praises the performances of Cynthia Erivo and Ariana Grande but critiques the decision to split the musical into two films, believing it diminishes the immediacy and cohesiveness of the narrative.

Notable Quote:

"I wish it could have been one movie. I think the fact that they split it into these two movies, I feel like it could have been tighter..." — Charlotte [06:55]

Alison's Reflection [07:50]: Alison mentions a young fan's disappointment about the film being split into two parts, questioning the historical performance of sequels and anticipated aspects of the second part.

Ariana Grande vs. Cynthia Erivo Performance Analysis

Ariana Grande as Glinda [09:52]:

Buchanan discusses Grande's transition from pop star to actress, highlighting her Broadway experience and ability to infuse Glinda with both canonical charm and deeper emotional layers, adding complexity to what could otherwise be a one-dimensional character.

Notable Quote:

"There's hints of something poignant, there's hints of insecurity to her performance that make the whole thing feel three-dimensional instead of one note." — Kyle Buchanan [09:52]

Cynthia Erivo as Elphaba [10:57]:

Erivo's portrayal is emphasized as the more challenging role, where she delivers a subtle and intimate performance that anchors the film. Buchanan commends her ability to maintain depth and connection without overshadowing Grande, ensuring the emotional tragedy remains impactful.

Notable Quote:

"Cynthia knows how to do that and also had the confidence and ambition underpinning it to be able to hold that screen." — Kyle Buchanan [10:57]

Subtext and Representation

Black Woman as Elphaba [11:54]:

The casting of a Black actress in the role of Elphaba adds significant subtext, aligning with the film's themes of racism and fascism. Buchanan notes that Erivo's heritage and personal story enrich the character, providing additional texture and authenticity.

Notable Quote:

"That is a significant subtext. I think it absolutely does underline these themes." — Kyle Buchanan [11:54]

On-Camera Chemistry

Grande and Erivo's Bond [12:53]:

Their off-screen bond translates into on-screen chemistry, crucial for pivotal scenes where adversaries become allies. Buchanan praises their genuine connection, which enhances the film's emotional depth.

Notable Quote:

"They have that connection and it's crucial. There's a pivot point about two-thirds of the way through this movie where the characters really warm up to each other." — Kyle Buchanan [12:53]

Listener's Critique

Caller Reid's Take [14:38]:

Reid expresses dissatisfaction with Grande's performance, arguing that she doesn't match Erivo's emotional depth, thereby weakening the film's overall impact. He also criticizes the decision to split the film into two parts, viewing it as a purely commercial move that detracts from the story's urgency.

Notable Quote:

"I think it could have been tighter and it kind of took out the immediacy that a Broadway musical has." — Reid [15:10]

Transition to Gladiator 2

Director Ridley Scott [16:48]:

Buchanan shares insights from his interview with the legendary director Ridley Scott, highlighting Scott's candid storytelling about the original Gladiator production challenges, including tensions between stars Russell Crowe and Joaquin Phoenix.

Notable Quote:

"He'll tell you all the real scoop... how Joaquin Phoenix was trying to get out of the movie." — Kyle Buchanan [16:48]

Film Sequel Dynamics [17:49]:

Gladiator 2 is confirmed as a direct sequel, continuing the legacy with Paul Mescal portraying Lucius, the son of Crowe's character. The film aims to echo the original's themes while introducing new political intrigue through Denzel Washington's character, Macrinus.

Notable Quote:

"It's very much beholden to the lore established in the first film and eager to retread the beats." — Kyle Buchanan [17:49]

Star Power and Performances [18:46]:

The ensemble cast, including Paul Mescal, Pablo Pascal, and Denzel Washington, brings varied energies to the film. While most actors deliver earnest performances, Washington's exuberant portrayal adds a refreshing dynamic, enhancing the overall enjoyment.

Notable Quote:

"Denzel is positively giddy to be in this environment. This is not the sort of movie or the sort of performance he usually gets to do." — Kyle Buchanan [18:46]

Accuracy vs. Entertainment [20:09]:

Buchanan argues that historical accuracy takes a backseat in blockbuster films like Gladiator 2, emphasizing entertainment value over factual precision. He acknowledges creative liberties, such as exaggerated aquatic scenes, as necessary for cinematic appeal.

Notable Quote:

"If you're really going for accuracy, a populist, $200 million Hollywood entertainment is not the place for it." — Kyle Buchanan [20:09]

Tone and Sincerity [21:17]:

Despite tonal shifts, both Wicked and Gladiator 2 maintain a serious and earnest atmosphere. Buchanan suggests that such sincerity resonates with audiences seeking escapism and reaffirmation of better ideals amidst societal divisions.

Notable Quote:

"They are providing real big, earnest, you know, super scored sentiment that, that goes over really well with an audience." — Kyle Buchanan [21:17]

Additional Listener Interactions

Caller Tori's Recommendation [26:58]:

Tori introduces Rumors by Guy Madden, Galen Johnson, and Evan Johnson, praising its blend of absurd humor and real performances. The film, which satirizes G7 leaders, is commended as a timely and powerful cinematic release.

Notable Quote:

"Rumors... really felt so liberating and powerful to see in the movie theaters right now." — Tori [26:58]

Buchanan's Endorsement [28:04]:

Upon hearing about Rumors, Buchanan enthusiastically endorses the film, specifically highlighting Cate Blanchett's outstanding performance.

Notable Quote:

"Anytime Cate Blanchett is being silly in a very smart way, as she is in Rumors, that's cause for celebration." — Kyle Buchanan [28:04]

Conclusion

Alison Stewart wraps up the episode by thanking Kyle Buchanan for his insightful analysis of Wicked and Gladiator 2. She encourages listeners to explore Buchanan's interview with Ridley Scott and reflects on the diverse opinions shared by callers, underscoring the varied perspectives that enrich cultural discussions.

Final Notable Quote:

"Kyle Buchanan has been my guest. He writes for The New York Times. Definitely check out his Ridley Scott interview. It is definitely worth it. Kyle, thanks for your time." — Alison Stewart [28:21]

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Key Takeaways:

• Wicked benefits from strong choreography and standout performances, particularly Cynthia Erivo's nuanced portrayal of Elphaba.
• The decision to split Wicked into two films has received mixed reactions, with some praising its completeness and others longing for a more immediate narrative.
• Gladiator 2 continues the legacy with a strong ensemble cast, blending earnest performances with moments of levity, especially through Denzel Washington's role.
• Listener feedback highlights the subjective nature of film reception, emphasizing personal connections and expectations.
• The episode underscores the importance of representation and depth in modern cinema, reflecting broader societal themes.

This episode of All Of It offers a comprehensive exploration of two major cinematic releases, enriched by expert commentary and diverse listener perspectives, making it a valuable resource for understanding contemporary film culture.

Transcript

[Alison Stewart]

Hey, Lulu here. Whether we are romping through science, music, politics, technology or feelings, we seek to leave you seeing the world anew. Radiolab Adventures right on the edge of what we think we know. Wherever you get Podcasts.

[Kyle Buchanan]

Listener Supported WNYC Studios.

[Alison Stewart]

This is is all of it. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC studios in soho. Thanks for spending part of your day with us. I'm really grateful you're here. On today's show, we'll speak to the producers of a new compilation album called Tranza, which features artists like Sam Smith, Andre 3000 and Sade. Thurston Moore joins us for a listening party for his new album Flow Critical Lucidity. And screenwriter Justin Kariskas is here in the studio. He's behind two of the big movies this year, Challengers and Queer. And speaking of big movies, let's get this show started. Okay. Did you see Glicked this weekend or Wadiator? Meaning did you do a double header of the big Release weekend of 2024, Wicked and Gladiator 2? Give us a call. 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC defied gravity. We want your review of Wicked 212-433-9692. Or perhaps you were just entertained by men in shorts and skirts. We want your take on Gladiator 221-2433-9692. Or maybe you're waiting to spend your money on another film. What did you see? Are you waiting on the Oscar bait that will be out before the end of the year? You know, Baby Girl, a Complete unknown, or Sonic the Hedgehog? 321-2433-969221-24433. People are standing by to get you on the air. Joining us right now is Kyle Buchanan from the New York Times. Hi, Kyle.

[Kyle Buchanan]

Hey, Allison.

[Alison Stewart]

First, let's talk about the director of Wicked. We're going to do Wicked first, John Hsu. What is he known for?

[Kyle Buchanan]

He's got a background in dance and musical movies. You know, I have a soft spot for his work on the Step up franchise, which really sort of indicated that he could do these large scale dance numbers that are some of Wicked's biggest strengths. And the funny thing is that he kind of came to the fore on Wicked over a whole lot of a list filmmakers that have been attached to this project over the years. You know, people have been trying to adapt this Broadway musical to the big screen for a long time. You had people like J.J. abrams and Ryan Murphy in the Mix. But off of in the Heights, John Chu got this. And he'll also be directing part two of Wicked, which comes out next year.

[Alison Stewart]

All right. I found an ad that was sort of his big break from 2013. He was asked to develop a film for Virgin Airlines. I don't know if you remember this. And it gave the safety instructions and it was a hoot. It featured breakdancers and rappers. Here's a taste.

[John Chu]

Yo, yo, yo. Now that you're buffing your head to the rap scene, now that your eyes are glued to the flat screen, if the cabin pressure's changing, you know that.

[Alison Stewart]

We won't be leaving you hanging.

[John Chu]

Pull your mask down first. Don't worry.

[Alison Stewart]

Oxygen flows.

[John Chu]

Tighten the straps after placing on your mouth and your nose. If you're traveling with someone like a child, for instance, put your mask on first before you operate system. Knock, knock. Now, under your seat, there's a life. Best life, first class. It's below your center armrest. Remove the pouch, tear it open, place it over your head. Are we coming in clear? Did you hear what we said? Buckle the white straps and tighten right around your waist once off the plane.

[Alison Stewart]

All right. I love that. That thing is four minutes and I.

[Kyle Buchanan]

Saw you bopping your head to that.

[Alison Stewart]

How would you describe John Chu's style?

[Kyle Buchanan]

I think it's very. Well, look, I think typically it's very danceful with. There's an enthusiasm to the musical numbers that he choreographs. Although it has to be said that I think a lot of the great strengths of this adaptation of Wicked are in the more silent, gentleman, calm down moments. You know, it has the virtue of starring Cynthia Erivo as Elphaba, and she's giving a very controlled, human sized performance in a movie that is very large and epic. I think a lot of other actresses would have been tempted to do something very arch. But what John Chuan and Cynthia Erivo do here is they bring things down to a very intimate scale. And I think that you. You feel for this character in a way that feels cinematic rather than just theatrical.

[Alison Stewart]

Where did he really hit with his style in Wicked? And then where did maybe he miss with his style in Wicked?

[Kyle Buchanan]

Well, there's a really great dance number, Dancing Through Life. It's sung by Jonathan Bailey, who's playing the handsome prince in this film. And there's so much going on. You've got all these incredible rotating sets in the background. You've got all of your main characters doing their thing, singing it well, dancing their hearts out. And I think it's pretty phenomenal the miss for me. And I don't know that everybody's going to care about this so much because they're going to be so swept up in the story. But it's worth noting, you know, if you're making a film that's essentially a revisionist prequel to the wizard of Oz, which has some of the most striking visuals of all time. It's not just that this is a somewhat more desaturated, naturalistic take on that without the eye popping color that you associate with Oz. It's that there isn't that one really strong visual, that thing that you're going to remember, that frame that feels epic and iconic. It has that sweep and that heft and that feel throughout. But I wouldn't have minded just that one strong idea, that one strong aesthetic image.

[Alison Stewart]

I wonder if that's because, you know, John Chu said he had to go to Washington Heights. He filmed in Washington Heights for In the Heights. But you can't really go to Oz. You have to make it up to.

[Kyle Buchanan]

You can't go to Oz. But that's the joy of it, right? I mean, you know, when they made the original wizard of Oz, I was going back and rewatching it and there are those incredible gigantic sound stages that are filled with, you know, incredible set and prop work and certainly Wicked has plenty of that. I wonder if it isn't just a symptom of the era that we live in where we just expect everything to be smothered with so much CGI and so much color correction in post production that we don't believe the reality as much as we were. Well, as much as audiences might have decades ago.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's take a call. Charlotte is calling in from Westchester. Hi Charlotte, thanks for calling all of it.

[Charlotte]

Hi Allison. So good to be on the show. So I could say a lot, but I'll try to keep it short. I first saw Wicked when it first came on Broadway. I was nine years old. I'm now 32. So for me, no matter what the movie was going to be, I was going to be sobbing because it was like an out of body experience. It brought me right back to my childh. But I think they really did a phenomenal job. You know, Cynthia Erivo, Ariana Grande just, you know, are meant to play those roles and they really brought their own spark to it. I just, I wish it could have been one movie. I think the fact that they split it into these two movies, I feel like it could have been tighter and it kind of took out the immediacy that a Broadway musical has where it's all in those two and a half hours, whereas now that you have to wait a year to see what happens, you know, so that that would be my only critique. But otherwise I was swept off my feet just like I was, you know, so many years ago.

[Alison Stewart]

Thanks so much for calling. You know, a little girl in my theater, Kyle, she saw part one and she screamed no. She was so upset. This idea that there's going to be a part one and a part two, I release next year when historically, how do part ones and part twos do in the theaters?

[Kyle Buchanan]

Well, honestly, I think they really deemphasized the idea that this was a part one. You don't see that in the marketing. You won't see that except for in the title card, because some of the time that does inhibit the audience. They say, well, we're not going to go now if it's not going to be the whole story. Sometimes you deemphasize that to your detriment. I remember the most recent Spider Man Spider verse movie ends on a cliffhanger that had the entire audience shouting, no. They wanted to see the resolution of that story. I would say one mark in this movie's favor is, and this surprised me going in because I thought maybe it was a very cynical approach to just split the movies in two and make more money off of it is that it feels complete. This feels like a very complete story to the point where all my questions going in about how does she become the Wicked Witch? How does this happen and that happen? They're pretty much answered. And I'll be very curious to see how they expand on the musical's second act in the second movie to hopefully make that feel like just as complete of a film.

[Alison Stewart]

My guest is Kyle Buchanan. We are talking about Glicket or Wadiator. Did you see Glicket over the weekend? Or Wadiator? Did you do a double header or did you see one of the other either Wicked or Gladiator? Give us a call. 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. You can call in and join us on air. I understand our texts aren't. If you want to call in and join the conversation, do it that way. 212-433-9692. Let's talk about the performances. Ariana Grande. Where do we see her strength as Glinda? And how do we know that she's sort of a Nickelodeon kid?

[Kyle Buchanan]

Yeah, I mean, I think people forget this because Ariana's been such a huge pop star for so long, but she actually got her start in acting. She even got her start in musical theater. She'd been on Broadway as a teenager, and I think she's bringing those talents back to the fore in this film. She's obviously very much influenced by Kristin Chenoweth's performance of Glinda on Broadway, but she absolutely does make this her own. And maybe it's. Maybe it's also the fact that the movie is two and a half hours long, but when you're spending this much time with her performance, it starts to feel both canonical and also very light and fun. You know, there's hints of something poignant, there's hints of insecurity to her performance that make the whole thing feel, you know, three dimensional instead of one note. And I think that's what you need when you're playing, you know, somebody who could be perceived as just a daffy blonde. You want those notes of something deeper.

[Alison Stewart]

Cynthia Rivo, an Oscar nominee for Harriet, a Tony, an Emmy Award, Grammy winner for the Color Purple. She does have the harder part, I think. What does she bring to Elphaba?

[Kyle Buchanan]

I agree with you. This is a harder part because, you know, the character is coming into her own over the course of the movie. But everybody else has the sort of juicier character roles. It's not always easy to play the straight woman. And that's why I was knocked out by how she had the confidence to go a little quieter in her performance and draw you in. Compared to the lead of our other movie that we'll be discussing. Paul Mescal in Gladiator, a terrific actor who is used to giving those small, intimate performances in indie movies, but maybe needed to go a little bigger to hold the screen in Gladiator. I was impressed that Cynthia knew how to do that and also had sort of the confidence and ambition underpinning it to be able to hold that screen to say, no, no, no, I'm going to go small, I'm going to go intimate, I'm going to go human sized, and you're going there with me.

[Alison Stewart]

There's also a subtext of a black woman playing this role.

[Kyle Buchanan]

Yeah, a significant subtext. You know, a lot of wicked has to do with political issues like the creeping rise of fascism and also racism, Fear of the other. You know, I interviewed Cynthia for this film two months ago and she talked about how it's very rare that you see a black woman play Elphaba on stage. So she didn't take this lightly. The fact that she gets to play this, and I think it absolutely does underline these themes. Also, Cynthia had took great pains to make sure that her own sort of heritage and her story would be reflected in even just the costuming, the hair, the micro braids that they give Elphaba. And I think that gives the character texture where it doesn't just feel like an archetype, it feels like a person.

[Alison Stewart]

How did you. What is your opinion of their chemistry of Ariana and Cynthia? Because they have been on a massive press tour. It may have been too massive.

[Kyle Buchanan]

Oh, they've been out there for a long, long time. They were out there during the Paris Olympics, selling this movie, holding hands. And I interviewed them both together, and they have a really powerful bond. Just looking at one another is enough to make them cry. And I think you've seen that in their press tour and you really see the root of that in the film. They have that connection and it's crucial. There's a. There's a pivot point about two thirds of the way through this movie where the characters really warm up to each other after having been adversaries. And I don't think that you can sell that scene, which takes place in almost near silence if the actual actors don't have the bond that they have.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's hear a track from Wicked. What is this feeling?

[John Chu]

What is this feeling? So sudden and new I felt the moment I laid eyes on you My pulse is rushing My head is reeling yeah, well, my face is flushing what is this feeling? The fervent of the flame. Does it have a name?

[Ari]

Y.

[John Chu]

Unadulterated loathing for your face, your voice, your clothing? Let's just say I love it all. Every little trait, however small, makes my very flesh begin to crawl with simple, utter loading. There's a strange exhilaration in such total detestations. It's a pure sauce.

[Alison Stewart]

All right, we have that call. Her name is Ari and she's loathing the movie. Hi, Ari.

[Reid]

Hi. How are you doing?

[Alison Stewart]

Okay.

[Reid]

I do not agree that Ariana Grande stands up next to Cynthia Erivo. I think she did not emote at all. And without that connection, the tragedy is lost. Because I just didn't believe that they were that connected or that she was that deep. And so there's less to lose.

[Alison Stewart]

Interesting. Were you a fan of Wicked before seeing the movie?

[Reid]

Huge fan. And I also don't think it works as a two parter. I think it's purely a commercial decision and it loses the urgency of it being a fascistic holocaust. Warning story by them. Just, you know, raking in as much money as possible with actors who are not actors and some singers who are not singers.

[Alison Stewart]

There you go. Ari, thank you for weighing in. We are talking about Glicked. After the break, we'll get into Gladiator 2. This is all of it. Imagine your community without a police force. How would you and your neighbors look out for one another? How would it fundamentally change your understanding of public safety? I'm Kai Wright and on the next Notes from America, meet three people who are moving their communities beyond punishment and enforcement in order to reimagine what it means to be safe. Listen wherever you get your podcasts, you are listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is Kyle Buchanan from the New York Times. We are talking Glicket or Wadiator. Did you see Wicked or Gladiator 2 this weekend? 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. All right, we're talking about Gladiator 2. We'll start with its director, Ridley Scott. You interviewed Ridley Scott recently. What did he say that was surprising?

[Kyle Buchanan]

Oh, almost anytime you interview Ridley Scott, it is almost as entertaining, sometimes more so depending on the film, than the movie he directed. You know, he is in his late 80s and he has a very legendary career. He has directed films like Alien, Thelma and Louise, Blade Runner, and I think he's at the point in his life where, well, he just doesn't hold back in an interview. He'll tell you all the real scoop. You know, we were talking about the very first Gladiator and he was talking about how his stars Russell Crowe and Joaquin Phoenix didn't get along. That Joaquin Phoenix, as is very, as often seems to be the case, was trying to get out of the movie. Russell Crowe was calling him unprofessional. So he was telling a lot of great stories about that. Yeah. I look not to tout my own work, but it's really Ridley. I'm only as good as my muse. You should check that interview out.

[Alison Stewart]

You know, I'm wondering about what Gladiator 2, is it considered a sequel or do you consider it a new film?

[Kyle Buchanan]

Oh, it's absolutely a sequel. Absolutely a sequel in the sense that it's very much beholden to the lore established in the first film and eager to retread the beats. You know, like this film stars Paul Mescal as Lucius, who's the secret son of Russell Crowe's character from the first film and very much like that. Very much like father, like son. He ends up in that arena as a gladiator as well. And there's all sorts of political machinations pushing him towards that, most of which are sort of put into place by Denzel Washington's character. He's playing an arms dealer named Macrinus, who's trying to scheme to use Lucius as an instrument to seize more power in Rome. But so much of the movie is retreading those same beats, you know, with a little bit of fun intrigue at the edges.

[Alison Stewart]

You have a lot of star power. Paul Mescal, Pablo Pascal, Denzel Washington. Does it work having them all together, or do they cancel each other out?

[Kyle Buchanan]

They're all bringing very different energies, which is fine. I kind of like that. You know, if you go back and you watch some of the old sword and sandal epics like Spartacus, not everyone is doing the same accent, not everybody is doing the same acting style. It can sometimes feel like, hey, let's just throw these actors in a really amazing set and see what they do. Denzel in particular is having so much fun that it's contagious. The movie would be much worse for wear without Denzel. I think everybody else is giving something that's very earnest, which is fine, and you need that to sort of feel the actual, real, tangible stakes of the story. But Denzel is positively giddy to be in this environment. This is not the sort of movie or the sort of performance he usually gets to do. And just even the delight he takes in wearing his character's robes, fussing with the sleeves to do a little bit of business. He is on a holiday, and we're all invited.

[Alison Stewart]

The themes in the. In the movie, they have baboons, they got sharks, they got rhinos. If you go. If you go on any Reddit rabbit holes, people. Some people are just infuriated with the inaccuracies. How important is accuracy in a film like Gladiator 2?

[Kyle Buchanan]

Oh, it's absolutely not important to Ridley Scott at all. I think real life is just a jumping off point for him, as it probably should be for any movie. You know, if you. If you're really going for accuracy, a populist, $200 million Hollywood entertainment is not the place for it. That's. That's for a Wikipedia page. You know, it's there. There's sacrifices that they're willing to make for entertainment. You know, you mentioned sharks. Yes, there is a scene where the Coliseum is flooded with water and sharks, and they did stage naval battles there, but not to the extent that's dramatized in this movie, it was just, you know, like a foot or two of water at most. Not recreating an ocean. But what's gonna look better in a movie? Come on.

[Alison Stewart]

Now. The twin emperors in the film are Joseph Quinn and friend of the show, Fred Heckinger. Hi, Fred. They do provide some, well needed laughs here and there. Fred does anyway. But the film was deadly serious down to the end, as was Wicked, actually. How do you feel about a movie that has this big dose of sincerity at the end?

[Kyle Buchanan]

You know, it's interesting with movies because they're made. I mean, both of these movies, Wicked and Gladiator Part 2, are films that took decades to get off the ground. And yet I often find that a movie meets its moment in some sort of unconscious kismet kind of way. And I think that the desire for something that is earnest and deeply felt is something we're only going to be wanting more of over the next few years when almost everything about this country feels irrevocably divided. You know, you look for movies to not just reflect the current moment, but to take us out of it. You know, people need entertainment. They need escapism, and they need those moments to remind them of, you know, of better ideals. And I think that these two movies, both tackling those moments and providing real big, earnest, you know, super scored sentiment that, that goes over really well with an audience.

[Alison Stewart]

Right now we're talking with Kyle Buchanan of the New York Times about the big film screening this weekend. We got a couple calls about films that weren't Wicked and weren't Gladiator 2. Let's talk to Reid from Brooklyn. Hey, Reed.

[Ari]

Hi, Allison. Long time, long time. I want to change the subject to a different Wicked movie that's soon to come out. Robert Eggers Nosferatu, which I personally have been waiting for for nearly a decade since he announced he had started working on the script after his first picture, the Witch, which I absolutely adore. And Robert Holt, Willem Dafoe, as always, because it's Robert Eggers movie. And Lily Rose Depp, who I'm excited to get another chance to shine after the debacle that emerged around the Idol last summer. Supposed to be a psychosexual nightmare, which I hear that line. I'm already seated.

[Alison Stewart]

Love it. Love it. Let's talk to Neil from Brooklyn. Hey, Neil.

[Neil]

Hi. Hello, Alison. So I recently saw a preview screening of a film that just totally blew me away. It is an animated fantasy by a Latvian named Jinz, made in French, and it's about five animals in some mystical, magical, mythological place, maybe on planet Earth where there's no dialogue. The main character, cat meows, the dog barks, the crane screeches, and they're somehow together on a boat in a flooded planet trying to survive through a human land, through, like visions of human cities, that there's no humans left. There's only the buildings.

[Alison Stewart]

Whoa. Hey, I wanted to ask you. Kyle, thank you so much for calling. Calling. By the way, Neil, what are you looking out for? What movies are you excited to see coming up?

[Kyle Buchanan]

Well, you know, in addition to Nosferatu, there's another film coming out that weekend, Baby Girl with Nicole Kidman that I absolutely loved. It's this sort of wicked psychosexual comedy that stars her as this CEO who becomes embroiled in kind of an S and M affair with her intern, played by Harris Dickinson. But it's not played in a 50 shades of grey way. It's very smart. It's very knowing. Even the way that they have this kind of dom sub dynamic is very much up for grabs and negotiable. And they're not always good at it. They're kind of improvising their way through. I had a huge smile on my face the whole time. Also worth noting that. Yeah. Because Baby Girl and Nosferatu come out the same weekend, it's being called Baby Ratu by the Internet, which honestly, I think is a better Barbenheimer portmanteau than anything we've been able to come up with yet for. For Wicked and Gladiator Glicked kind of sounds like the nickname of maybe like some boy you went to summer camp with. Wade just sounds like you're lisping. But Baby Rotu, now that's where the action is.

[Alison Stewart]

All right. Have you seen Sing Sing?

[Kyle Buchanan]

I have seen Sing.

[Alison Stewart]

Okay. This movie brought me to tears.

[Kyle Buchanan]

This movie.

[Charlotte]

Yes.

[Kyle Buchanan]

It's really great and I think it's going to have an award season comeback.

[Alison Stewart]

Colman Domingo, he plays a prisoner. It's about a theater group behind bars. He brings me to. I mean, what does he do in this role that only Colman Domingo can do?

[Kyle Buchanan]

Well, Colman's really terrific in this movie. Like you said, it's about a theater troupe behind the walls of a prison. And everybody else that's cast around Coleman pretty much are other actors who were formerly incarcerated and also found their way through this troupe, this real life troupe. So he's playing opposite, you know, actors that we have really never seen on screen before. Actors who basically came to acting through prison. And I think what he does really effectively is he holds the center of that. You know, all these people who have incredibly unique acting styles, including this really incredible supporting actor, Clarence Macklin, who I expect will get a lot of attention this awards season. And Coleman holds that center. He's good at that. I think it's a real testament to Coleman coming from being a supporting actor who's on the rise to becoming a leading man in his own right in Hollywood.

[Alison Stewart]

And let's take one last call. Tori is calling in from Brooklyn. Hey, Tori.

[Tori]

Me on the air.

[Alison Stewart]

You're on the air. Go for it.

[Tori]

Awesome. At the top of the hour, you guys mentioned also giving shout outs to any films that aren't Wicked or Gladiator 2. And I just wanted to give a shout out to the film Rumors by Guy Madden, Galen Johnson, and Evan Johnson. And just what you guys were talking about as far as tonally, what, just what we're all feeling politically right now and just in general. Rumors, I thought was a really wonderful salve. It follows the G7 leaders at their meeting, coming together, making their G7 statement. But there's a level of absurdity to the humor, but also balanced with this, like, very, very real and straight performances that just felt so liberating and powerful to see in the movie theaters right now. So I'm curious also if either of you guys have seen that and how you feel like it falls into the film moment right now.

[Alison Stewart]

Have you seen it, Kyle?

[Kyle Buchanan]

I have seen it. And you didn't even sell the biggest part, which is Cate Blanchett being silly. Look, you've got to take an opportunity. Anytime Cate Blanchett is being silly in a very smart way, as she is in Rumors, that's cause for celebration.

[Alison Stewart]

Kyle Buchanan has been my guest. He writes for the New York Times. Definitely check out his Ridley Scott interview. It is definitely worth it. Kyle, thanks for your time.

[Kyle Buchanan]

Anytime, Alison.