Podcast Summary: All Of It – Episode Featuring Kyle Buchanan on 'Glicked'
Podcast Information
- Title: All Of It
- Host: Alison Stewart
- Producer: WNYC
- Episode Title: Kyle Buchanan on 'Glicked'
- Release Date: November 25, 2024
- Description: All Of It delves into cultural phenomena, engaging with creators and consumers to explore the nuances of various cultural outputs. This episode features an in-depth discussion with Kyle Buchanan from The New York Times about the highly anticipated films Wicked and Gladiator 2 (referred to as Glicked and Wadiator in the transcript).
Introduction
Alison Stewart opens the episode by welcoming listeners and introducing the day's topics. The focus is on two major film releases: Wicked and Gladiator 2. She briefly mentions other cultural projects, including a compilation album, a new album listening party with Thurston Moore, and insights from screenwriter Justin Kariskas. However, the primary discussion centers on the films in question.
Discussion on Wicked
Director John Chu's Influence
- Kyle Buchanan [02:17]: Highlights John Chu's background in dance and musical films, notably the Step Up franchise. He appreciates Chu's ability to handle large-scale dance numbers, a key element in Wicked. Chu's success in adapting the Broadway musical comes after notable filmmakers like J.J. Abrams and Ryan Murphy showed interest but couldn't bring the project to fruition. Chu not only directed the first installment but is also slated to direct the sequel, releasing the following year.
Notable Quote:
"John Chu got this [Wicked] off of In the Heights, and he'll also be directing part two of Wicked, which comes out next year." — Kyle Buchanan [02:17]
Film Style and Execution
- John Chu's Style: Incorporates dynamic dance sequences with an emphasis on enthusiasm and choreography. However, Buchanan notes that the film excels during its quieter, more intimate moments, particularly through Cynthia Erivo's portrayal of Elphaba.
Notable Quote:
"It has the virtue of starring Cynthia Erivo as Elphaba, and she's giving a very controlled, human-sized performance in a movie that is very large and epic." — Kyle Buchanan [04:06]
Strengths and Weaknesses
-
Strengths: The dance number "Dancing Through Life" is lauded for its impressive choreography and rotating sets. Cynthia Erivo's nuanced performance brings depth to Elphaba, making the character relatable and cinematic rather than purely theatrical.
-
Weaknesses: The absence of a singular, iconic visual akin to the original Wizard of Oz's vibrant imagery. Buchanan suggests that the film's more desaturated and naturalistic approach lacks a memorable aesthetic anchor.
Notable Quote:
"There's not that one really strong visual, that thing that you're going to remember, that frame that feels epic and iconic." — Kyle Buchanan [05:01]
Audience Reception and Call-ins
Listener Charlotte's Perspective [06:55]:
Charlotte, a long-time fan of Wicked, shares her emotional connection to the story, having first seen it on Broadway as a child. She praises the performances of Cynthia Erivo and Ariana Grande but critiques the decision to split the musical into two films, believing it diminishes the immediacy and cohesiveness of the narrative.
Notable Quote:
"I wish it could have been one movie. I think the fact that they split it into these two movies, I feel like it could have been tighter..." — Charlotte [06:55]
Alison's Reflection [07:50]: Alison mentions a young fan's disappointment about the film being split into two parts, questioning the historical performance of sequels and anticipated aspects of the second part.
Ariana Grande vs. Cynthia Erivo Performance Analysis
Ariana Grande as Glinda [09:52]:
Buchanan discusses Grande's transition from pop star to actress, highlighting her Broadway experience and ability to infuse Glinda with both canonical charm and deeper emotional layers, adding complexity to what could otherwise be a one-dimensional character.
Notable Quote:
"There's hints of something poignant, there's hints of insecurity to her performance that make the whole thing feel three-dimensional instead of one note." — Kyle Buchanan [09:52]
Cynthia Erivo as Elphaba [10:57]:
Erivo's portrayal is emphasized as the more challenging role, where she delivers a subtle and intimate performance that anchors the film. Buchanan commends her ability to maintain depth and connection without overshadowing Grande, ensuring the emotional tragedy remains impactful.
Notable Quote:
"Cynthia knows how to do that and also had the confidence and ambition underpinning it to be able to hold that screen." — Kyle Buchanan [10:57]
Subtext and Representation
Black Woman as Elphaba [11:54]:
The casting of a Black actress in the role of Elphaba adds significant subtext, aligning with the film's themes of racism and fascism. Buchanan notes that Erivo's heritage and personal story enrich the character, providing additional texture and authenticity.
Notable Quote:
"That is a significant subtext. I think it absolutely does underline these themes." — Kyle Buchanan [11:54]
On-Camera Chemistry
Grande and Erivo's Bond [12:53]:
Their off-screen bond translates into on-screen chemistry, crucial for pivotal scenes where adversaries become allies. Buchanan praises their genuine connection, which enhances the film's emotional depth.
Notable Quote:
"They have that connection and it's crucial. There's a pivot point about two-thirds of the way through this movie where the characters really warm up to each other." — Kyle Buchanan [12:53]
Listener's Critique
Caller Reid's Take [14:38]:
Reid expresses dissatisfaction with Grande's performance, arguing that she doesn't match Erivo's emotional depth, thereby weakening the film's overall impact. He also criticizes the decision to split the film into two parts, viewing it as a purely commercial move that detracts from the story's urgency.
Notable Quote:
"I think it could have been tighter and it kind of took out the immediacy that a Broadway musical has." — Reid [15:10]
Transition to Gladiator 2
Director Ridley Scott [16:48]:
Buchanan shares insights from his interview with the legendary director Ridley Scott, highlighting Scott's candid storytelling about the original Gladiator production challenges, including tensions between stars Russell Crowe and Joaquin Phoenix.
Notable Quote:
"He'll tell you all the real scoop... how Joaquin Phoenix was trying to get out of the movie." — Kyle Buchanan [16:48]
Film Sequel Dynamics [17:49]:
Gladiator 2 is confirmed as a direct sequel, continuing the legacy with Paul Mescal portraying Lucius, the son of Crowe's character. The film aims to echo the original's themes while introducing new political intrigue through Denzel Washington's character, Macrinus.
Notable Quote:
"It's very much beholden to the lore established in the first film and eager to retread the beats." — Kyle Buchanan [17:49]
Star Power and Performances [18:46]:
The ensemble cast, including Paul Mescal, Pablo Pascal, and Denzel Washington, brings varied energies to the film. While most actors deliver earnest performances, Washington's exuberant portrayal adds a refreshing dynamic, enhancing the overall enjoyment.
Notable Quote:
"Denzel is positively giddy to be in this environment. This is not the sort of movie or the sort of performance he usually gets to do." — Kyle Buchanan [18:46]
Accuracy vs. Entertainment [20:09]:
Buchanan argues that historical accuracy takes a backseat in blockbuster films like Gladiator 2, emphasizing entertainment value over factual precision. He acknowledges creative liberties, such as exaggerated aquatic scenes, as necessary for cinematic appeal.
Notable Quote:
"If you're really going for accuracy, a populist, $200 million Hollywood entertainment is not the place for it." — Kyle Buchanan [20:09]
Tone and Sincerity [21:17]:
Despite tonal shifts, both Wicked and Gladiator 2 maintain a serious and earnest atmosphere. Buchanan suggests that such sincerity resonates with audiences seeking escapism and reaffirmation of better ideals amidst societal divisions.
Notable Quote:
"They are providing real big, earnest, you know, super scored sentiment that, that goes over really well with an audience." — Kyle Buchanan [21:17]
Additional Listener Interactions
Caller Tori's Recommendation [26:58]:
Tori introduces Rumors by Guy Madden, Galen Johnson, and Evan Johnson, praising its blend of absurd humor and real performances. The film, which satirizes G7 leaders, is commended as a timely and powerful cinematic release.
Notable Quote:
"Rumors... really felt so liberating and powerful to see in the movie theaters right now." — Tori [26:58]
Buchanan's Endorsement [28:04]:
Upon hearing about Rumors, Buchanan enthusiastically endorses the film, specifically highlighting Cate Blanchett's outstanding performance.
Notable Quote:
"Anytime Cate Blanchett is being silly in a very smart way, as she is in Rumors, that's cause for celebration." — Kyle Buchanan [28:04]
Conclusion
Alison Stewart wraps up the episode by thanking Kyle Buchanan for his insightful analysis of Wicked and Gladiator 2. She encourages listeners to explore Buchanan's interview with Ridley Scott and reflects on the diverse opinions shared by callers, underscoring the varied perspectives that enrich cultural discussions.
Final Notable Quote:
"Kyle Buchanan has been my guest. He writes for The New York Times. Definitely check out his Ridley Scott interview. It is definitely worth it. Kyle, thanks for your time." — Alison Stewart [28:21]
Key Takeaways:
- Wicked benefits from strong choreography and standout performances, particularly Cynthia Erivo's nuanced portrayal of Elphaba.
- The decision to split Wicked into two films has received mixed reactions, with some praising its completeness and others longing for a more immediate narrative.
- Gladiator 2 continues the legacy with a strong ensemble cast, blending earnest performances with moments of levity, especially through Denzel Washington's role.
- Listener feedback highlights the subjective nature of film reception, emphasizing personal connections and expectations.
- The episode underscores the importance of representation and depth in modern cinema, reflecting broader societal themes.
This episode of All Of It offers a comprehensive exploration of two major cinematic releases, enriched by expert commentary and diverse listener perspectives, making it a valuable resource for understanding contemporary film culture.