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- [00:08]
A
This is all of it. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC studios in soho. Thank you for sharing part of your day with us. I'm grateful that you're here. Coming up on the show today, we'll speak with author Tayari Jones about her new novel Kin. We'll learn about the impact of Jesse Jackson, the he had on New York City politics, and will speak with Oscar nominated production designer Fiona Crombie, who recreated the world of Shakespeare for the film Hamnet. That's the plan. So let's get this started with Laurie Anderson. Next Tuesday, Carnegie hall will host the 39th annual Tibet House US benefit concert, featuring a lineup including Debbie Harry, Alison Russell, the Philip Glass Ensemble, and the Resistant Revival Chorus. And my next guest, Laurie Anderson. Tibet House US was founded in 1987 at the request of the Dalai Lama to preserve and provide education about Tibetan culture and civilization. It has been stewarded over the years by a number of thinkers and artists, including Philip Glass, who serves as artistic director alongside Laurie. And she's here with me now for a preview of the event. It is really nice to see you, Laurie.
- [01:36]
B
Nice to see you too.
- [01:37]
A
So when did you first become involved with Tibet House?
- [01:40]
B
Oh, let's see. Probably the early 90s, actually. I went to Tibet for the first time and I thought, wow, we have a Tibet house here. So I joined up. It's been amazing.
- [01:54]
A
What do you remember about Tibet when you first visited?
- [01:57]
B
I remember getting lost. We got lost. Actually, we got lost. And to go down, you have to go up. So we were at 21,000ft. Oh, my gosh. That's where planes fly. Tibet is very tall. It's tall. I don't know how the Dalai Lama got over those mountains to escape. But anyway, that was the big drama of the beginning of the exile.
- [02:25]
A
It sounded when you said, I got lost, you sort of smiled when you said that.
- [02:32]
B
That's a defense mechanism. It was horrible.
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A
It was that bad. Yeah.
- [02:36]
B
I was walking around talking to other hikers and trekkers and saying, do you think you could put my head back on it? The top flipped off and. And they were like, okay. Because they were in the same state of lack of oxygen. It's a crazy trip, but it was really wonderful because we went to see Lama Lazo, where supposedly the new Dalai Lama's name is written in code on the surface of the water. I was like, I gotta see that. I didn't see it, but it was a wonderful trip.
- [03:13]
A
In your role as the artistic director at Tibet House US what does that
- [03:16]
B
entail you know, I really don't deserve this title because I'm kind of along for the ride. It's really a group effort and it's a lot of people looking at who can. At an interesting kind of mix of people. So this year it's like it's always a crazy mix and it's wonderful. It's always kicked off by the monks with their chants and that's just bone chilling kind of sound, you know, it's really, really hits you in your spinal cord. And then from there it's just a kind of wild combination of a lot of different singers and speakers and sometimes comedians and you know, this year it's really going to be amazing. Tens and Chuckles is a Tibetan singer who's going to. He often joins us and he's going to. He's. He's a really wonderful. We have just maybe 15 or so performers. Yeah, it's going to be amazing.
- [04:27]
A
I wanted to ask about Tenzin Chungl. He's one of the few Tibetans who's going to sing at the program. He joined you on one of your previous albums, I believe.
- [04:36]
B
Yeah.
- [04:38]
A
What was the impetus for making that album?
- [04:41]
B
I just dipped into that at really the very last second. It was something that we did at the Rubin Museum and it was called Songs from the Bardo. And we were reading from the so called Tibetan Book of the Dead, which is really has another title about hearing and hearing in the between. And it's the story of the 49 day period of time between lives. Although the Tibetans also called this life a bardo, the one that we're in now. So that's the Bardo between the death Bardo's. It's all a bardo, basically.
- [05:19]
A
Let's listen to a little bit from that album.
- [05:25]
B
Listen without distraction. Sam,
- [06:28]
A
It's beautiful to hear.
- [06:29]
B
Yeah, it is, it is. That's. It's instructions for people who are dying. Very, very specific ones. And I found it really crazy and beautiful what to pay attention to.
- [06:42]
A
Absolutely. When you listen to that kind of music, Tibetan music, what do you listen to specifically? What really, I don't know, gets you?
- [06:53]
B
I think I'm trying to empty my mind of things, you know, because it has like a really interesting tempo and it's kind of all over the place and it's loose. It's, you know, it's kind of very alive. It's for being a thing about death, it's very alive. And there are wonderful musicians on that. Jesse Smith and Ruben Kudeli and Shahzadi's Mali. And let's see who else is on that. Yeah, that's basically it, I think.
- [07:25]
A
I'm speaking to musician and multimedia artist Laurie Anderson, who is also artistic director of the 39th annual Tibet House US benefit concert happening at Carnegie hall on March 3rd. Why is Carnegie Hall a good place for this concert?
- [07:41]
B
It's kind of the, weirdly, a center that has accepted a lot of people from downtown, you know, and so I think we wanted to find a place kind of like Central park, you know, it was really a New York place and didn't have the. And would be easy to. And kind of iconic and beautiful. So it's just always been there. So I guess I never ask myself why. Yeah, it's a great place.
- [08:18]
A
I was wondering if the sound. The sound of Carney hall has something to do with the concert.
- [08:24]
B
You know, it's in glorious mono, weirdly. I don't know why, but it's made for all kinds of sounds, you know, so. So the field glass ensemble sounds unbelievable there. It just. It just rocks the rafters, and so does, you know, everyone who's played there just is. It's a very lively, beautiful place with wonderful sight lines and. And just a kind of. It feels like a sort of a civic center in a way, you know? Yeah.
- [09:00]
A
May I ask, are you. You're a Buddhist?
- [09:03]
B
Yes, I am. I do practice that. Yeah.
- [09:06]
A
When did you first get involved in Buddhism, and why did you get involved?
- [09:11]
B
Oh, okay. Well, I was having trouble concentrating, actually, and a friend said he'd been to this place in Western Massachusetts, and he had that same problem. He came back and he said, I. I came back and I could. The world was different. He said, my mind was like a beam. I could move it here, I could move it over there. The chatter had stopped. I was like, whoa, I want a mind like a beam. So I went there, and it was called ims. And it was just in the early days. They're just about to celebrate the 50th anniversary of this place, when a lot of Americans were coming back from India and going, what should we do with all of this magic stuff we learned there? So a number of them, Jack Goldstein, Sharon Salsburg, formed the IMS Insight Meditations Society Center. And so, anyway, I got there, and they said, why are you here? And I said, well, I'm just, you know, have some reasons. And they said, well, you know, you're here because you're in pain. And I was like, no, I'm here to get a mind like a beam, you know? And they said, no, you're here because of pain. And I said, and so it went back and forth like that. Pain beam, pain beam. I was like, let's start this with an argument, okay? And I realized that I was there because of that. And it took me a while to realize that because at this place you get at that time it was really hardcore. So you got up at 4, you meditated for a couple of hours, you had some tea, then you meditated for six more hours, then you had the one meal of the day, and then you meditated the rest of the day and you walking and sitting and all this stuff. And so what happens is it's based on the fact that when something bad happens to you and you don't like, ah, scream, you know, you put it somewhere. And so that's what you realize when you sit there for 18 hours a day. You realize that you have stored all of this stuff in a very eloquent way, you know, and you have like, it seems like anger goes right to your jaw, it locks up, it's really painful. And loss goes right to your heart and jealousy to your liver. You know, it's weird. You're like a library of pain. And you can find that. So that's the idea. Unlike psychoanalysis that uses language and stories to find what happened to explain why you're feeling so horrible, this is the body that tells you that. And I trust that more. I think, you know, the body, the body has a kind of mind of its own and you can tap into that in meditation and, and find some really interesting things. And aside from that, you know, it's also, I think like a lot of things like Tai chi and yoga are ways that I find really helpful when things are moving too fast or things are stressful. You realize you have all of the resources and answers already. You don't need to look out there for ways to solve your problems. You find it in yourself. So I've.
- [12:43]
A
I'm
- [12:45]
B
a kind of control freak, so I love that, you know, it's like. And also there's nobody on top telling you what to do. You know, it's not a hierarchy, it's not. The lesson is you're the Buddha and that's a pretty big thing to take in. But you are the Buddha. Everyone is. And so I was like, this is pretty shocking. But for me, as an artist, it's sort of the same thing in a way. All you're required to do, you're not required to believe anything or say anything. You're just required to be aware Open your eyes. Look for yourself for what it is. And that's crack for me, you know, that's like, wow, really? I'm in charge. Okay. All right, let's see what happens.
- [13:47]
A
Do you still meditate?
- [13:48]
B
I do, yeah.
- [13:49]
A
How long?
- [13:50]
B
Well, it depends, but usually a pretty good chunk in the morning hour or something and. An hour. A whole hour. I'm going to do a dark retreat soon. This is something I'm really interested.
- [14:06]
A
Oh, that sounds interesting.
- [14:07]
B
Yeah. What is that lets you go into pitch black room and stay there for a few days by yourself. And they apparently, I haven't done this yet, so you have to come back
- [14:19]
A
and tell us about it. I need to know.
- [14:21]
B
Unless I start pounding on the door after about an hour, get me out of here. I'm really curious to see what happens to light into your memories and your fear and all sorts of stuff.
- [14:35]
A
Let me ask you about your artistic direction of this Tibet House USA benefit. We've got Debbie Harry, Alison Russell performing, Maya Hawke, whose grandfather is Robert Thurman, the renowned scholar Kate Pearson of the B52s, and Jessie Mallon. Did you give them guidance?
- [14:54]
B
No, no. What we do is Tony Shanahan is kind of the music director, and so he's kind of the band. Ms. Martha Mook, who's running the Scorchio Quartet. And so there. All of these. And we also have a choir. And this is the. There's Elysian Fields also. And actually the choir is called the Resistance Revival Chorus. And so they're amazing. So we have a lot of these group things going on and then people kind of. It's a really nice way you kind of slide around and play in other people's things. And somebody goes, hey, I need somebody to solo here. And somebody just goes, I'll do it.
- [15:40]
A
Me.
- [15:40]
B
Yeah. So it's really super democratic, you know, it's really nice. And the people organizing it are really good at making it all as simple as possible and as much fun as it can be. And you kind of get that feeling when you go to it that it's been put together really quickly and with a lot of energy. And of course, this year it's going to be really especially amazing because some of the. Some of Phil Glass's new work that was scheduled at the Kennedy center and is. Which he withdrew is going to be in this. And it's a work about Lincoln. And I really can't wait to hear this because it's kind of based on a speech he made in 1838 in the. It was called Lyceum Speech. And it was. It was in response to a burning of a Black man in St. Louis. And he was talking to a group of young men about violence. And it's really amazing speech. And so I. I love that Phil chose that. So I think that will be represented in some way. I'm not quite sure with the lyrics for sure, but not the whole. We're not going to do the whole opera. Or maybe we will. I don't know.
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A
Maybe we will.
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B
Yeah, we'll see what happens at the rehearsal.
- [17:10]
A
You know, 2026 is the year of the fire horse.
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B
Yes.
- [17:14]
A
Is that going to have significance in your concert?
- [17:18]
B
That's a good suggestion. Okay, thank you. I'm going to pass that on from you to them. That's. It really is a fantastically energetic combination of things. Fire and a horse. Because a horse is in Tibetan. The word for horses is wind, actually. So you have. When the Rubin Museum opened, this is the Tibetan museum, in early 2000s, something. They asked a lot of artists to design flags. So they're these prayer flags that you hang out as kind of, I'd say, messages to people who have died or messages to the wind. And so I did an image of the horse as wind. And then, of course, the wind, you hang it up and it just tatters. It's really. It's really beautiful. I have them. I always string up Tibetan prayer flags wherever I am, actually. That's a good thing. Yeah. The Hudson river really rips them apart. I live on the Hudson river and the wind has just like shattered them. They're tatters, but they're beautiful.
- [18:34]
A
They're sort of beautiful in the tatters.
- [18:36]
B
They're really beautiful. Yeah, because you know that. That's the idea is the message gets blown away.
- [18:42]
A
A bird told me. And by a bird, I mean Elliot Forrest of wqxr.
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B
Okay. Pretty much call him a bird.
- [18:48]
A
Call him a bird. That you're. Saturday night, you're gonna be at Nyack along with John Sh. And you're also going on tour.
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B
The.
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A
It's called the Republic of Love.
- [18:58]
B
Yes, it is. Yeah. Where's that phrase come from? Well, you know, I was asked last spring to be part of a festival in Vienna. And it was. They said, we'd like you to give a two hour talk. The idea of the festival, the theme of the festival, which is music, dance, literature, visual art, was the rise of fascism in Europe. And so they asked me to come. And so I did a number of music things. But also they said, can you give a two hour talk about the relationship of government and love. And I was like, wow, I don't often get assignments like that, but I thought, I'm going to step up and try now. They also asked me where I did. It was in orf, the radio station where Hitler announced his Diana annexation of Austria. So it was a pretty intense venue, let's say. And so I just began to think, who has talked about government and love? And so I kind of gathered a bunch, mostly of American people, but some. So it started with Cornel west, who said, justice is what love looks like in public. And I thought, right on. And so it goes on then through Bob Dylan, John Cage, Stein, Gertrude Stein, a little of Marcus Aurelius, a little of Borges, who said one thing that I really like, which sort of ends this thing, which is censorship, is the mother of metaphor. And I really like that because, you know, the number of words that have been cleared out from our federal documents is pretty striking. It includes words, controversial words like woman, like Native American, like, you know, civility, just. And the thing is, if you can't use words, what they represent starts dropping away. And so I find that kind of blotting out. And then there's also quite a large team of federal workers who not only are blotting out those words, but blotting out how they did it and when they did it. So this is something that I think I'm drawn to thinking about and trying to say things about. And I think it's a tricky thing, you know, because it's on everybody's minds what's going on, but very hard to find the right words in the right way. So that's what Republic of Love is about. But also, in Nyack, there's going to be Martha Mook and Steve Bernstein, or the three of us are gonna and do. I don't know what we'll see.
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A
It'll be fun.
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B
It will really be fun. They're great musicians, so it's a blast playing with them.
- [22:32]
A
A very busy schedule ahead. I want to point people to the 39th annual Tibet House US benefit concert at Kearney hall on March 3rd. Laurie Anderson, it's always a pleasure to speak with you.
- [22:44]
B
Same. Thank you.
- [22:46]
C
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- [23:16]
B
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