Podcast Summary: Lorna Simpson At The Met

Podcast: All Of It (WNYC)
Host: Alison Stewart
Guest: Lorna Simpson, multimedia artist
Date: November 26, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of "All Of It" centers on the celebrated artist Lorna Simpson and her exhibition Lorna Simpson: Source Notes at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. Host Alison Stewart interviews Simpson about her journey from photography to painting, her creative process, the inspirations behind her recent work, and the broader meanings her art explores. The conversation dives deep into Simpson's methods, the material she uses, her personal rituals, the idea of archive and memory, and her views on legacy within the art world.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Lorna's Artistic Evolution: From Photography Back to Painting

• Simpson started as a photographer despite her early training in painting at the School of Visual Arts (SVA) because "I had so many friends who were so much better at it than I was... I found myself spending a lot of time in the darkroom and learning photography." (01:46)
• Her return to painting began incrementally through collage and small drawings, allowing for a new and intimate hands-on process that contrasted sharply with the technicality of photography. (02:17)
  • Quote: “The intimacy of making something small, making something with your hands that kind of just happens immediately as opposed to video... just as an experiment.” (02:20)

2. Embracing the Unpredictability of Painting

• The transition from photography's controlled, staged environment to painting's spontaneity led Simpson to embrace mistakes and accidents.
  • Quote: “Painting... it's a muscle in a way... I had to think about releasing my control... So it's this kind of dance... between just making something and letting the process take over rather than trying to control it.” (02:55)
• Painting’s physical demands surprised her, saying, “For different works, the amount of time and some of them are so large that they get painted on the floor... it's a very physical activity, which is quite wonderful.” (03:52)
• Compared to the immediacy of photography, painting is a prolonged process full of discovery: “This, on the other hand, presented so many accidents... pulling back from adding too much... kind of a dance between my hand, what I... my intention... and how the inks and the paint might apply or work on it.” (04:30)

3. Studio Rituals and Knowing When to Stop

• Music plays a big role in Simpson's creative process: “James Wang and I would just play... Frank Ocean. Over and over... It is nice to have music and to kind of have that be filling the space.” (05:30)
• She knows a painting day is done when “if I continue, I might mess it up... that's definitely the time to stop for the day.” (06:02)
• Reflecting on overworking paintings, she admits: “There are moments that I've overdone stuff and I was like, okay, that didn't help.” (06:26)

4. The Exhibition: Source Notes – Meaning and Notable Works

• The show’s title reflects her use of archival material, often from African American magazines: “A lot of the visual material... is based on imagery from advertising, from Jet and Ebony magazines... what you might overlook…” (07:09)
• “True Value”: A painting based on a collage from Jet magazine, featuring a woman in leopard print and a cheetah—their faces swapped: “I thought it was the craziest image that I'd ever seen... I made a small collage... then years later... oh, that would make an amazing painting.” (08:08)
• “Nightmare”: A large painting inspired by a promotional still from the 1970s film Carrie, playing with altered identity and eeriness. (09:41)
• Placement of these two works at opposite ends creates a “kind of loop through” the exhibition, though this was not originally planned. (10:15)

5. The Met Acquisition: "Did Time Elapse?" and the Meteorite Motif

• Simpson recounts her fascination with meteorites and an archival story of a meteorite landing at the feet of a Black tenant in Mississippi: “The amazing thing... you don't learn what the witness saw... it's mitigated by the landowner... this kind of phenomenon of a meteorite falling at this black man's feet... I found a really interesting starting place...” (11:03)
• She even bought a meteorite on eBay, drawing on her childhood love for collecting rocks and an eye for identifying authentic pieces. (12:29)

6. Honoring Beryl Wright: The Power of Curatorship

• A painting in the exhibit is dedicated to Beryl Wright, a curator who gave Simpson her first major solo survey: “It really also changed the way I made work after that point, which was amazing... in terms of curators and particular black women... the struggles... not just a one time thing.” (13:20)
• The significance of support for Black women curators is highlighted here, framing both the personal and institutional dimensions of legacy.

7. Representation of Women in Simpson’s Art

• Simpson describes the recurring female presences as “between ghosts and mirage or presence... they are always present in some form.” (15:53)

8. Including Sculpture Amidst Paintings

• The show also features a sculptural work composed of Ebony and Jet magazines, bronze, plaster, and glass, representing another facet of Simpson’s interdisciplinary approach: “So it was a way, as a survey, to show a selection of maybe all these different bodies of work...” (16:51)

9. What to See – and Why It’s Up to You

• Simpson resists prescribing a focal point to visitors: “I think the Met is so huge... Even if people just walk in for five minutes and walk out... you never know what lingers two hours later...” (17:40)

Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• “I had so many friends who were so much better at it than I was... So I kind of went by how much time I was staying with a particular activity and that was photography.” — Lorna Simpson (01:46)
• “Painting... it's a muscle... I had to think about releasing my control of how I thought it was gonna come out... it's this kind of dance... letting the process take over...” — Lorna Simpson (02:55)
• “Music... Frank Ocean. Over and over... It is nice to have music and to kind of have that be... filling the space while I work.” — Lorna Simpson (05:30)
• “A lot of the ... visual material ... is based on ... advertising, from Jet and Ebony magazines ... what you might overlook ... my interest in archive and photography is part of that idea.” — Lorna Simpson (07:09)
• “The amazing thing about that text is you don't learn what the witness saw... it's kind of mitigated by the landowner... the phenomenon of a meteorite falling at this black man's feet...” — Lorna Simpson (11:03)
• “It's amazing for people to come and to go see art and to spend any time... Even if people just walk in for five minutes and walk out... you never know what lingers two hours later...” — Lorna Simpson (17:40)

Notable Segment Timestamps

• [00:10] Introduction and setting the scene at the Met
• [01:36] Simpson recounts her art school training and early career shift to photography
• [02:17] Discusses her return to painting after years focused on other media
• [03:47] Reflections on the physicality and scale of painting
• [05:27] Studio rituals and the importance of music
• [06:26] How overworking paintings impacts the works' outcomes
• [07:09] The meaning of "Source Notes" and archival inspirations
• [08:08] The origin story behind "True Value"
• [09:41] Insights into the painting "Nightmare"
• [10:42] Discussion of the Met-acquired painting and meteorite inspiration
• [13:20] Tribute to curator Beryl Wright
• [15:53] On the spectral and persistent presence of women in her work
• [16:51] The inclusion of sculpture in the exhibit
• [17:40] Simpson’s advice for visitors to the exhibit

Tone and Language

The conversation is thoughtful, candid, and at times humorous, highlighting Simpson’s humility, deep intellectual engagement with her subjects, and her openness regarding process and uncertainty. Stewart’s questions draw out personal and historical context, inviting Simpson to reflect on both the practical and philosophical dimensions of art-making.

Conclusion

“Lorna Simpson At The Met” offers an insightful peek into the career and thought processes of one of contemporary art’s most significant voices. Listeners learn not just about art, but about the power of revisiting earlier mediums, of honoring mentors, and of the ways in which the cultural archive continues to shape and haunt artistic work. Simpson’s humility and open-endedness invite both seasoned art lovers and newcomers to engage deeply — or simply to be present and see what lingers.

Exhibition: Lorna Simpson: Source Notes, Metropolitan Museum of Art, final week November 2025.