All Of It – “Lou Reed and The Velvet Underground (Full Bio)”

Host: Alison Stewart
Guest: Will Hermes, author of Lou Reed: The King of New York
Date: December 19, 2023

Episode Overview

This episode of “All Of It” is an immersive deep-dive into Lou Reed and The Velvet Underground, guided by Will Hermes, author of Lou Reed: The King of New York. The discussion focuses on how New York City shaped the Velvet Underground’s origins, ethos, and sound, tracking their chemistry, creative process, significant venues, and the city’s influential art scene. The episode balances vivid historical context with personal insights from Hermes’ extensive biography, capturing the gritty underbelly of NYC’s avant-garde and its intersection with rock music.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Role of New York City (03:36)

• Lou Reed described downtown NYC as a “place where you could experiment, places where it wasn’t necessary to have a hit... you could try things out and the audience could afford to get in.”
  — (Lou Reed, 03:36)
• The city’s openness to experimentation and artistic risk was crucial to The Velvet Underground’s formation and sound.

The Beginnings: John Cale’s Musical Trajectory (05:01)

• John Cale, originally from Wales, had rigorous classical training; studied at Goldsmiths, then at Tanglewood with Aaron Copland.
• Cale came to NYC, fascinated by avant-garde composers like John Cage and La Monte Young, whose minimalist influences would shape the VU’s sound.

The Founding Dynamic: Reed Meets Cale (07:02)

• Reed and Cale met at 56 Ludlow Street. Cale saw Reed as “a high-strung, intelligent, fragile college kid” (07:02).
  • Reed’s versatility with words and music impressed Cale, especially his daring subject matter (e.g., “Heroin,” “Waiting for the Man”).
• “What John saw in Lou… he saw someone who had an incredible versatility with words… sometimes they’d just be playing music together, Reed would just extemporize lyrics that were just wild.”
  — (Will Hermes, 09:12)
• Both were interested in “extreme forms of expression” and were bonded by music, trauma, and a fascination with drugs.

Sterling Morrison’s Entrance (10:56)

• The serendipitous meeting at a Brooklyn subway station brought Morrison, a former Syracuse acquaintance and talented guitarist, into the band.
• “They ran into Sterling on the D train platform… the stars aligned.”
  — (Will Hermes, 12:17)

Maureen “Moe” Tucker’s Distinctive Drumming (12:42)

• Maureen Tucker replaced original drummer Angus MacLise because of her reliability and unique pulse.
• Her sound, influenced by Bo Diddley and “Drums of Passion” by Babatunde Olatunji, became integral to the VU identity.
• “The sound of Velvet Underground kind of came together in that moment at Summit High School.”
  — (Will Hermes, 16:51)

Factory Connections: Andy Warhol & Nico (17:54)

• Introduction to Andy Warhol facilitated by Barbara Rubin, positioning the VU in the Factory art milieu.
• Warhol’s “management” was an ambiguous, informal arrangement but offered VU credibility and protection to push musical boundaries.
• “Even if we don’t sell a lot of records, we’ll sell some because of Warhol’s name.”
  — (Will Hermes, 21:12)
• Downside: VU often overshadowed by Warhol's fame—their debut album "The Velvet Underground & Nico" featured Warhol’s name, not theirs.
• Warhol also insisted on adding German singer Nico; Reed acquiesced—“He saw what side of his bread was buttered.” — (Will Hermes, 23:40)
• Reed and Nico’s brief romance; Nico’s haunting vocals gave the debut its signature sound.

Reception and Struggles (26:29)

• The debut album was met with “resounding indifference”—not commercially played due to provocative themes.
• Legal challenges (a lawsuit over a back cover photo) delayed release.
• Despite critical indifference and lack of radio play, the band remained intact, parting ways eventually with Nico and Warhol.

Internal Dynamics & Decline (28:09)

• Cale and Nico’s departure marked significant turning points.
• "Lou and I had one of those rapports where you think the other guy is thinking what you’re thinking, but he’s not...”
  — (John Cale, quoted by Hermes, 28:23)
• Will Hermes notes “bad luck” stymied their commercial success—e.g., losing Maureen Tucker for a key recording, label woes, poor promotion after Lou left.

The Velvet Underground’s Highs & Lows (30:43)

• The cultural locus was San Francisco; VU’s rivalry with promoter Bill Graham led to bans from key venues.
• During Woodstock, VU were instead playing small Boston clubs—their “low point.”
• Ironically, their best live performances (“Matrix Tapes”) happened at nearly empty venues.
• “It was a band reaching its apotheosis and very few people heard it at the time.”
  — (Will Hermes, 32:45)

Memorable Quotes

• Lou Reed on downtown NYC:
  “Places where you could experiment, where it wasn’t necessary to have a hit... That’s become pretty problematic in New York these days.” (03:36)
• Will Hermes on Reed & Cale’s chemistry:
  “They were just interested in extreme forms of expression... writing about a drug user from a first-person perspective, that’s something else.” (09:12)
• On Warhol's influence:
  “Because of his imprimatur, the Velvets were allowed to create music that both sonically and lyrically was way beyond the pale of what passed for rock music at the time.” (21:12)
• John Cale (as quoted by Hermes):
  "The only thing we had in common were drugs and an obsession with risk-taking. That was the raison d'être for the Velvet Underground.” (28:23)
• Hermes on the Matrix Tapes:
  “They’re magnificent... it was a band reaching its apotheosis and very few people heard it at the time.” (32:45)

Notable Moments & Timestamps

• [03:36] – Lou Reed describes the critical role of “downtown” in NYC’s creative ethos
• [07:02] – John Cale’s first impression of Lou Reed and their initial artistic partnership
• [12:42] – The advent of Maureen Tucker and her game-changing drumming style
• [17:54] – The Factory/Warhol connection, leading to major transformative opportunities and challenges
• [23:40] – Warhol’s addition of Nico to the band, the resulting musical chemistry and Reed/Nico dynamic
• [26:29] – The debut album’s initial cold reception
• [28:23] – Cale on his creative but fraught connection with Reed
• [32:45] – The band’s artistic high point, largely unappreciated in its time

Episode Tone & Style

The episode maintains an erudite but approachable tone—reflective, candid, and at times wry—mirroring the gritty, intellectual, and experimental spirit of the Velvet Underground themselves. Hermes’ insights are historically rich but personal, frequently anchoring the group’s legacy in both music history and the real, lived-in places and relationships that defined its members.

Conclusion

This episode is a tour through the Velvet Underground’s New York, unpacking the myth and reality of a band whose influence has only grown with time. The conversation masterfully situates Lou Reed and the Velvet Underground at the collision point of artistic innovation, personal demons, and the ever-shifting cultural tides of the city—revealing why their brief, turbulent run continues to resonate.