← All Of It with Alison Stewart
All Of It with Alison Stewart
'Love, Brooklyn’ from Director Rachael Holder and Actor Nicole Beharie
00:25:51
A new film three longtime Brooklynites as they navigate love, loss, career and friendship as their neighborhoods change before their eyes.
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- [00:08]
A
This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart, live from the WNYC studios in soho. Thank you for spending part of your afternoon with us. Hey, readers, get lit is back for the fall season and we're kicking things off with an extra special event. This year marks the 25th anniversary of the Pulitzer Prize winning novel the Amazing Adventures of Cavalier and Clay by Michael Chabon. The story follows two Jewish cousins, Joe and Sammy, living in Brooklyn in the late 30s and 40s. They join together to create a new comic book superhero, the Escapist. The hero is based on Joe's experience escaping Europe during World War II. To celebrate this 25th anniversary, Michael Chabon will be joining us for a very special get lit event. And that's not all. The Amazing Adventures of Cavalier and Clay has also been turned into and opera. This brand new production will debut at the Metropolitan Opera this fall. And get lit audiences are in for a special preview. That's right, the Met opera singers will be joining us for a live performance from the brand new opera at our get lit event. Here's a little preview. I do not want to even talk about getting in the into the elevator to get it to the top of the library. We'll discuss that later. Plus, librettist Jean Shearer will join us to discuss the process of turning the novel into an opera. This is all happening on Wednesday, September 24th at 6pm Tickets are free, but they will fill up fast. To grab yours now and to borrow your E copy of the novel, head to wnyc. Get Lit. That's in the future. In the present, we take you to Brooklyn. In the new movie Love Brooklyn. Each of the three main characters has at least one thing making them look back or keeping them from moving forward. Roger, played by Andre Holland, is trying to write about gentrification in Brooklyn, but can't get past the first page. Here's a clip from the movie Evolving City.
- [03:01]
B
What in the world is that? Look at all this obscene money that's flowing in, right? Like, it's just erasing the culture. It's just like smashing everything. And the people, right? The people, the community. This community, right? Which was so beautiful, which was one of the few places where, like, folks could live with, like, grace and dignity, right? And the people who, like, made the neighborhood, who built the culture, can no longer afford to live in the damn neighborhood. But it's evolving. No, no. Hell no. It's devolving.
- [03:26]
C
If anything, you need to write that.
- [03:29]
B
Apparently that's not the story that I pitched and it's not what their readers want to hear.
- [03:34]
A
So now the second voice you hear is Roger's ex girlfriend, Casey, played by my next guest, Nicole Behari. Casey is a gallery owner. She inherited the space from her grandmother, but she's having trouble selling pieces. In this changing Brooklyn, she and Roger have been spending a lot of time together. Meanwhile, Roger's current friend in quotes, Nicole, is a widowed mother of a young girl and she's trying to figure how to emotionally stay afraid. Float Love Brooklyn was directed by Rachel Holder. It's her feature film debut. It opens in theaters this Friday and expands nationwide on September 5th. Rachel and Nicole, welcome to all of it.
- [04:12]
C
Hello.
- [04:12]
D
Hi. Thanks for having us.
- [04:14]
A
So, Nicole, how would you describe Casey?
- [04:19]
C
Well, Casey was a gift to me because I've oftentimes sort of been in dramas or in, in stories that are a little bit, not that this isn't serious, but just deals with like, heavier fare.
- [04:33]
D
Yeah.
- [04:33]
C
And she's a, she's sort of like a light hearted, go with the flow advocate for artists, much like yourself, Allison Stewart. Well, I don't know about the light hearted part, but like the go with the, you know, the advocating for the arts, which is like something that I love that you guys do here. She just wants to see her artists that she represents, paid and well taken care of. And as the community's changing, is sort of trying to figure out what that looks like and is surprised that she's not able to support herself. And she has this relationship with Roger that is, is it on again, off again, or is it just complicated? Well, it's, I don't want to give too much away, but yeah, yeah.
- [05:15]
A
Because Rachel, there's not like a love trial, but they're kind of all bouncing off each other. These three people are experiencing life and they're experiencing it with each other. How would you describe the relationship between.
- [05:28]
E
Casey and Roger and Casey and Nicole?
- [05:32]
D
The way that I saw it when I read the pages for the first time was this movie felt like two women deciding whether or not they wanted to be with a man. And what was funny to me, and lightheartedly, was that they were deciding in front of him and that this wasn't conversations that they were having with their friends or their therapists or their mothers. They were talking directly to him and giving, you know, and not, and not to be cheeky, they were just being really honest. And it was obvious that they had done the work, you know, needing to do some more. One of them needed to do a little bit more. But I feel like it was just a really cool way into a romance where the women had the power.
- [06:27]
A
Nicole.
- [06:28]
E
Casey and Nicole, they kind of know about each other a little bit.
- [06:33]
C
Yeah. I have to say, too, Nicole, I am Nicole Behary. But Nicole is by the wonderful Dewanda Wise. It gets hard. She's incredible in this. So I just want to make. I'm gonna throw that in there.
- [06:46]
A
Thank you.
- [06:46]
E
I appreciate that. It's been messing me up a little.
- [06:49]
C
Bit, but it can be confusing. People are like, so with Nicole, and they're like, aye, but yeah.
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A
The two.
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E
Women in this film, they are similar in some ways, but they're also at different stages in their life.
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A
Nicole, how do the women sort of.
- [07:06]
E
Move through the world differently?
- [07:09]
C
Oh, that's interesting. I don't know. I mean, I can speak to it a little bit. I think Rachel sort of created what that. What that fully is. But I think the interesting thing about Nicole, the character, is that, you know, she's. She's a mother, and that she. That they have like this. They have very strict boundaries, whereas the relationship with Casey and Roger, the boundaries are. Are sort of nebulous and a little mushy. And it's like they don't know what it is. But it seems like Nicole is being very definitive about what it is and what her expectations are. And she seems to understand more how the world is changing and have made more, like, peace with things, moving forward in a way. But she's also mourning. It's hard for me to talk about. This is like me from the out, from the outside, because that's not character. But looking in, she feels like a more grounded choice for him than Casey because, you know, she's. Casey's probably seeing other people as well and not certain as to where, not what, like, whether or not she's staying put. You know, what's going to happen with the gallery is a big deal for them. Paying the rent, just. Just making ends meet is a big deal. And I don't know if she has the space in her mind to maintain a relationship in the same. In the same way.
- [08:35]
E
Rachel, what do you think about the way that the two women move through the world differently?
- [08:42]
D
I felt like Nicole, played by the wonderful Dewanda Wise, I feel like her character was less of a moving target physically, but emotionally was. I felt like Casey because they had all that background. They had a historical background. Their chemistry was born years before the movie starts. She was always sort of comfortable physically close to Roger and then could also comfortably be at a distance and then still in his head. And while Dewanda's character, Nicole would. While she was, like, physically comfortable with him as well, she was emotionally and mentally at a distance from him and was sort of purposefully making sure that her heart and mind would be that way. Whereas with Casey, she was just sort of like, well, let's see how I feel this morning when I wake up, where my heart and mind will be. And that sort of was the difference between the two.
- [10:00]
E
Listen to the way they. They talk about the relationship. This is a clip from Love Brooklyn. It's Roger and Casey, and they're talking about Roger's dating life. Let's listen.
- [10:11]
C
But you're seeing somebody, right?
- [10:16]
B
Who Business is that but mine.
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C
Tell me.
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B
Tell me better what you want to know.
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C
Um, her name.
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B
Her name is Nicole.
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C
Nicole?
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B
Yeah. You do not know her.
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C
How do you figure?
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B
I don't know Brooklyn. I know who you know, and you don't know her. Okay. But she's cool. Yeah, she's cool. She's. She's a. An open person. Honest. Super honest, you know, radically honest. Yeah, yeah. About what she wants and needs. Through a fault sometimes, but, yeah, I guess she has to be.
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C
Yeah.
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B
Yeah. She's got a little girl. Her husband died in an accident.
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C
Jesus.
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B
Yeah. So I don't know what's gonna happen, but for now, you know, we see each other and it's good.
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A
Nicole, the actor, what was interesting to you about the way that they talked about and about how it evolved in that 60 seconds?
- [11:20]
C
Oh, in the 60 seconds. I don't know what is interesting. I mean, it's just familiar, and it goes from playful to. I think some. Some things are revealed about Nicole or who he's partnering with that makes it unusual for what she's expected of him, that he's engaging with someone that comes with as much stuff and that. That's a little bit more serious than she's accustomed to. So it's a little. You know, it changes the tone in that sense. But I just love, like, even, you know, it's been a while, we shoot these things, like a year ago or whatever. I. I love how they. I just love how they banter and how they know each other. Like, he knows where she's going and what she wants to hear, and she can tell when he's withholding. So there's nothing like. I mean, those. Those type of relationships, those longstanding friendships are just golden in this day and age when there's so. So little connection, you know? So I can see why they want to hold on to each other even if it's a little toxic.
- [12:22]
A
It's interesting watching that clip because I looked at your boots and they're Prada boots. You're on the grass. And I was like, ooh, she's got a gallery, but she can afford Prada boots. Does that say something about her?
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D
I don't know.
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C
They're vintage consignment. You gotta figure it out.
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D
We're in the city thrift store.
- [12:43]
A
It is true. I'm speaking with actor Nicole Beharie and director Rachel Holder about the film Love Brooklyn. It hits theaters in New York this Friday and opens nationwide on September 5th. Rachel? A review of the film, in Essence described it as a coming of age story about adults confronting the reality of making tough decisions through unexpected changes. Does that phrase, coming of age story about adults, does that ring true for you?
- [13:16]
D
Yeah, I feel like adults, we're always sort of coming of age. We're always growing. Hopefully. Hopefully we don't stop doing the work until it's over. I just wanted to. Can I just circle back to the grass scene for a second? Sure. I want to shout out our cinematographer, Martim, for that moment, because we can't see it. I'm just hearing it for the first time, and it's making me focus on the picture more than I think I normally do when I watch it, ironically. And that shot that day, we had lost a location that was supposed to be in a restaurant, and we decided to, that day, shoot it on the grass. And Martim is just a stunning, amazing cinematographer. And the way that he worked with light is just the beauty that he brought to this was so defining. And so I just wanted to shout that out, how beautiful that that moment was visually.
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E
What was that like for you, Nicole, to have to switch gears like that? You're not going to be in a restaurant now.
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C
You're going to be. It was a crazy day because then after that it ended up raining. Right. We ran out of light. So this. So the SC is actually shorter than the. There was a lot more scene, but we ran out of light, you know, hence. I wasn't going to say this, but now that she's revealed. Hence the Prada boots. Right. Because the outfit was for, like, a different locale for like a restaurant. So we weren't supposed to be wearing that in the grass. I wasn't going to say that. But now that that's been revealed, that makes more sense, right?
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D
Yeah.
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E
It's all becoming clear.
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C
It's all becoming clear. But this is movie magic, right?
- [14:56]
D
Yes. Independent movie magic.
- [14:58]
C
It was beautiful. Andre is the most flexible, capable, generous actor. So we got to just kind of, you know, be. And in a way, being outdoors and everything other than the constraints of, like, we're losing light and time and are they going to get the full story? I'm always very concerned with that as, like, an actor. It ends up. It tells the story even though there are bits missing and there are little contextual things that change. Like you noticing the clothing is a bit off. It's like you wonder about stuff like that. But, yeah, happens. You know, it happens. But it was a. It was a gift and it was lovely to be outside in the grass. I don't. I don't remember the last time I just laid in the grass and looked up at the sky like that on a set.
- [15:41]
E
Rachel, you filmed in Brooklyn. People are recognized as your characters are walking down the street. What makes this a uniquely Brooklyn story?
- [15:59]
D
I think so. Someone else was talking about how we didn't go to all the cliche, iconic spots of Brooklyn. We were sort of finding the spaces that were beautiful to us. And because I have grown up being living in Brooklyn, being in Brooklyn my entire life, there were unexpected places, I guess, unexpected to other people. Spaces that were really beautiful and defined Brooklyn for me. I think the parks are really defining. Brooklyn has the most beautiful parks. And I wanted one of the north stars with this movie was to create an energy in the pace and sound and. And look that would leave an audience feeling like they spent time in nature. And I think that Brooklyn is a wonderful place to, as Nicole, the actor just said, lay in the grass and look up at the trees.
- [17:06]
A
Nicole, your character has inherited this space from their grandmother. She has a certain feeling about it. Was it a dream come true for her to have this gallery, or does she have to make this gallery work? Or maybe both.
- [17:23]
C
I love. I love how you phrase that. I think it is both. I think it's a. It's a dream can come true until. Until it's not. Until you change. Kind of the. The sort of thesis that we were talking about, like that coming of age as adults, how we continue to change and how the environs continue to change and how we react to that. But it is something that she very much wants to make work. And legacy is, you know, we talk about gentrification, but also there's just legacy in these communities and these old buildings and all the restaurants and the cafes and, you know, going into places and people sort of know your name or even your family name, you know, in the community from having decades Of. Of being. Of being anchored there. And I think it's more about that even than the selling of art. It ends up being about something, you know, more than, like, skin deep.
- [18:24]
A
Rachel, I have to ask you, I watched it two or three times. That was Lisa Luca. You have Lisa Luca in this film, is that right?
- [18:32]
D
Oh, yes. Yeah.
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A
For nerve. You know, book nerds. We all know Lisa Luca as a publisher, as this great person.
- [18:41]
D
How did you get her in your film, Andre? I mean, how do we get anybody in our film? Who's Andre? Yeah, that was. That was solely him. It was a. It was an idea that he had. And, yeah, I don't want to give too much away about what she does, but, yeah, it was Andre.
- [19:11]
E
She's playing her part. Art is a big part of this film.
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A
Rachel, did you have an art director?
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E
Did you pick the art yourself?
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A
How did that come up on the screen?
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D
The various artists? We had an amazing production designer, Lily, who scoured the Internet with a reference point from my art decks for the film and found known artists and then aspiring artists to work with. And it was important to us to center artists of color. And she was. She was wonderful in finding the art and also just making the art of our locations, like, every. Every room. Even when we had to sort of pivot and start over on the day. She was able to make. Come alive and feel lived in in a way that. That would normally be done in a full build out.
- [20:12]
E
And there's this reference in the story of Lot's wife from the Bible, and she's turned to a pillar of salt by looking back at the destruction of Sodom. It's a piece by Henry Tanner, and it's about this lesson of, do you look back? Do you not look back? Do you look back? Do you not look back? Nicole, There's a moment in the show, in the cab. Do you look back to see if he's there? Do you not look back? Why was this an important part of Casey's growing up in this film? This idea of do you look back?
- [20:45]
C
You know, what's crazy, I can be honest about this, is like, there's always something in a piece that you work on that, like, stays with you. That was like. For you, you know, for me, that was. That was the thing that was. For me, it was like, wow, this story about becoming a pillar of salt when you're saved from a thing, you know, or when something is changing. I just love that she didn't. And then last second, you know, she kind of can't help herself. Or is trying to hold on to the thing. And we all kind of. We, we all can understand that. But for me, I just like, I love that bit of allegory and the way that the, the painting looks. And apparently there are a few paintings of the same biblical reference, but yeah, that just concept, even as we're like navigating the world that Nicole the actress is in, the way that Hollywood is shifting the political landscape, everything that's happening, it's like, do you continue to try to hold on to what was or see things the way that you saw them, even if it was just like a year or six months ago? So I love that. Again, another beautiful gift in this piece. Sorry I'm getting like all touchy feely, but that is how I feel.
- [22:04]
D
Oh, that was great.
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A
That's what public radio is for. Get all as touchy feely as you like.
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C
Yeah.
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A
Two final questions. Rachel, it's your feature directorial debut. What do you know now that you didn't know at the beginning?
- [22:23]
D
What do I know now? Oh, my gosh, so much. But like, what's interesting to say aloud is what my mind is trying to find right now. So the way that I describe, like television directing versus feature directing is like playing scales on a piano is television directing. And feature directing feels like a song. And I think something that I. Something that I had have to do in television directing because you're. You're basically carrying out someone else's art and, you know, keeping the boat afloat. And feature directing, you are. It's. It's more yours, but it's also a plane that's being built while. While flying. And I guess like one of the biggest lessons is the constant rewriting and how it can be thrilling. And I guess the. Yeah, I guess the biggest lesson is to not be afraid of the rewriting that happens at every stage. Writing is rewriting. And especially in filmmaking, especially in creating a song, you're always sort of starting over a bit to. To make it. To make it better, to make it more understandable, to make it what it should be. Yeah, I think that's one of my biggest takeaways.
- [24:12]
A
Nicole, you were great in Ms. Juneteenth. We're going to see you on the morning show soon. What does a part need for you to say yes?
- [24:21]
C
Oh, man, you should. I mean, I guess it has to be something that, like, something that I feel like is global or like relatable on just like a human level, even if it's very specific to someone who like myself to play it and Then the people. You know, it's always the people. Like, I always come in loving the people and wanting to do the best possible job. So it's usually from, like, that hard space, either from admiration or in this case, it was like, I knew Dre really well, and Rachel and I had had some great conversations about what this would be. So I was like, yes, I'm in. Let's do it. Let's.
- [25:06]
E
And.
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C
And kind of like, did everything we could to, like, make it happen. So, yeah, those are the things for me. And then, you know, a good script without saying. But, yeah, something that I feel like is.
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E
Is.
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C
Is. Is asking a question. And this one is very, very clear, I think. Yeah, I think there'. I guess that's the idea.
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E
The name of the film is Love Brooklyn. It hits theaters in New York this Friday. A note. Roy Wood Jr. Andre Holland and Rachel will be at the Angelica tonight for a Q and A session. I have been speaking with director Rachel, Abigail Helder and actor Nicole Beharie. It is nice to meet you. Good luck with your film.
- [25:48]
D
Thank you so much.
- [25:49]
C
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.
- [25:52]
E
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