Alison Stewart (3:00)

Yeah, yeah. Because Rachel, there's not like a love trial, but they're kind of all bouncing off each other. These three people are experiencing life and they're experiencing it with each other. How would you describe the relationship between Casey and Roger and Casey and Nicole?

Rachel Holder (3:18)

The way that I saw it when I read the pages for the first time was this movie felt like two women deciding whether or not they wanted to be with a man. And what was funny to me and lighthearted was that they were deciding in front of him and that this wasn't conversations that they were having with their friends or their therapists or their mothers. They were talking directly. Directly to him and giving, you know, and not. And not to be cheeky, they were just being really honest. And it was obvious that they had done the work, you know, needing to do some more. One of them needed to do a little bit more. But I feel like it was just a really cool way into a romance where the women had the power.

Alison Stewart (4:14)

Nicole, Casey and Nicole, they kind of know about each other a little bit.

Nicole Beharie (4:19)

Yeah. I have to say, too, Nicole. I am Nicole Behari, but Nicole is. By the wonderful Dewanda Wise. It gets hard character.

Alison Stewart (4:27)

You're right.

Nicole Beharie (4:28)

She's incredible in this. So I just want to make. I'm gonna throw that in there.

Alison Stewart (4:32)

Thank you. I appreciate that. It's been messing me up a little bit.

Nicole Beharie (4:35)

It could be confusing. People are like, so with Nicole, and they're like. But yeah,

Alison Stewart (4:41)

the two women in this film, they. They are. They are similar in some ways, but they're also at different stages in their life. Nicole, how do the women work? Sort of move through the world differently?

Nicole Beharie (4:55)

Oh, that's interesting. I don't know. I mean, I can speak to it a little bit. I think Rachel sort of created what that. What that fully is. But I think the interesting thing about Nicole, the character is that, you know, she's. She's a mother and that she. That they have like this. They have very strict boundaries, whereas the relationship with Casey and Roger, the boundaries are.

Alison Stewart (5:22)

Are. Are.

Nicole Beharie (5:23)

Are sort of nebulous and a little mushy, and it's like they don't know what it is. But it seems like Nicole is being very definitive about what it is and what her expectations are. Um, and she seems to understand more how the world is. Is changing and. And have made more, like, peace with things, moving forward in a way. But she's also mourning. It's hard for me to talk about. This is like me from the out, from the outside. Cause that's not my character. But looking in, she feels like a more grounded choice for him than Casey because, you know, she's. Casey's probably seeing other people as well and not certain as to where or not.

WNYC Announcer (6:04)

What.

Nicole Beharie (6:04)

Like whether or not she's staying put. You know, what's going to happen with the gallery is a big deal for them. Paying the rent, just. Just making ends meet is a big deal. And I don't know if she has the space in her mind to maintain a relationship in the same. In the same way.

Alison Stewart (6:22)

Rachel, what do you think about the way that the two women move through the world differently?

Rachel Holder (6:28)

I felt like Nicole, played by the wonderful Dewanda Wise, I feel like her character was less of a moving target physically, but emotionally was. I felt like Casey because they had all that background. They had a historical background. Their chemistry was born years before the movie starts. She was always sort of comfortable physically close to Roger and then could also comfortably be at a distance and then still in his head. And while Dewanda's character, Nicole would. While she was, like, physically comfortable with him as well, she was emotionally and mentally at a distance from him and was sort of purposefully making sure that her heart and mind would be that way. Whereas with Casey, she was just sort of like, well, let's see. You know how I feel this morning when I wake up, where my heart and mind will be. And that sort of was the difference between the two.

Alison Stewart (7:45)

Let's listen to the way they talk about the relationship. This is a clip from Love Brooklyn. It's Roger and Casey, and they're talking about Roger's dating life. Let's listen.

Nicole Beharie (7:57)

But you're seeing somebody, right?

Andre Holland (8:02)

Who? Business is that but mine.

WNYC Announcer (8:06)

Tell me.

Nicole Beharie (8:07)

Tell me about her.

Andre Holland (8:08)

What? You want to know her name? Her name is Nicole.

Nicole Beharie (8:13)

Nicole?

Andre Holland (8:13)

Yeah. You do not know her.

Nicole Beharie (8:15)

How do you figure?

Alison Stewart (8:16)

I don't know.

Andre Holland (8:16)

I know Brooklyn. I know who you know, and you don't know her. Okay. But she's cool. Yeah, she's cool. She's an open person. Honest. Super honest, you know, radically honest. Yeah, yeah. About what she wants and needs through her fault sometimes. But, yeah, I guess she has to be.

Nicole Beharie (8:40)

Yeah, yeah.

Andre Holland (8:41)

She's got a little girl. Her husband died in an accident.

Nicole Beharie (8:48)

Jesus.

Andre Holland (8:49)

Yeah. So I don't know what's gonna happen. But for now, you know, we seeing each other and it's good.

Alison Stewart (8:56)

Nicole, the actor. What was interesting to you about the way that they talked and about how it evolved in that 60 seconds.

Nicole Beharie (9:06)

Oh, in the 62nd. I don't know what is interesting. I mean, it's just familiar. And it goes from playful to. I think some. Some things are revealed about Nicole or who he's partnering with that makes it unusual for what she's expected of him, that he's engaging with someone that comes with as much stuff and that. That's a little bit more serious than she's accustomed to. So it's a little, you know, it changes the tone in that sense. But I just love, like, even, you know, it's been a while we shoot these things, like a year ago or whatever. I. I love how they. I just love how they banter and how they know each other. Like, he knows where she's going and what she wants to hear, and she can tell when he's withholding. So there's nothing like. I mean, those. Those type of relationships, those longstanding friendships are just golden in this day and age when there's so little connection, you know, So I can see why they want to hold on to each other, even if it's a little toxic.

Alison Stewart (10:08)

It's interesting watching that clip because I looked at your boots, and they're Prada boots. You're on the grass. And I was like, ooh, she's got a gallery, but she can afford Prada boots. Does that say something about her?

Rachel Holder (10:21)

I don't know.

Nicole Beharie (10:22)

They're vintage consignment. You gotta figure it out.

Rachel Holder (10:26)

We're in the city thrift store.

Alison Stewart (10:29)

It is true. I'm speaking with actor Nicole Beharie and director Rachel Holder about the film Love Brooklyn. Rachel, a review of the film, in essence, described it as a coming of age story about adults confronting the reality of making tough decisions through unexpected change. Does that phrase, coming of age story about adults, does that ring true for you?

Rachel Holder (10:54)

Yeah, I feel like adults, we're always sort of coming of age. We're always growing. Hopefully. Hopefully we don't stop doing the work until it's over. I just wanted to. Can I just circle back to the grass scene for a second?

Alison Stewart (11:12)

Sure.

Rachel Holder (11:14)

I want to shout out our cinematographer, Martim, for that moment, because we can't see it. I'm just hearing it for the first time, and it's making me focus on the picture more than I think I normally do when I watch it ironically. And that shot that day, we had lost a location that was supposed to be in a restaurant, and we decided. Decided to that day, shoot it on the grass. And Martim is Just a stunning, amazing cinematographer. And the way that he worked with light is just the beauty that he brought to this was so defining. And so I just wanted to shout that out, how beautiful that that moment was visually.

Alison Stewart (12:00)

What was that like for you, Nicole, to have to switch gears like that? You're not going to be in a restaurant now.

Rachel Holder (12:05)

You're going to be.

Nicole Beharie (12:05)

It was a crazy day because then after that I didn't get up raining. Right. We ran out of light. So this. So the scene is actually shorter than the. There was a lot more scene, but we ran out of light, you know, hence. I wasn't going to say this, but now that she's revealed, hence the Prada boots. Right. Because the outfit was for like a different locale for like a restaurant. So we weren't supposed to be wearing that in the grass. I wasn't going to say that. But now that that's been revealed, that makes more sense, right? Yeah, it's all becoming clear. It's all becoming clear. But this is movie magic, right?

Rachel Holder (12:34)

Yes. Independent movie magic.

Nicole Beharie (12:36)

It was beautiful. Andre is the most flexible, capable, generous actor. So we got to just kind of, you know, be. And in a way, being outdoors and everything other than the constraints of, like, we're losing light and time and are they going to get the full story? I'm always very concerned with that as like an actor. It ends up. It tells the story, even though there are bits missing and there are little contextual things that change. Like you noticing the clothing is a bit off. It's like you wonder about stuff like that. But yeah, happens, you know, it happens. But it was a. It was a gift and it was lovely to be outside in the grass. I don't. I don't remember the last time I just laid in the grass and looked up at the sky like that on a set.

Alison Stewart (13:19)

Rachel, you filmed in Brooklyn. People are recognized as your characters are walking down the street. What makes this a uniquely Brooklyn story?

Rachel Holder (13:30)

I think so. Someone else was talking about how we didn't go to all the cliche, iconic spots of Brooklyn. We were sort of finding the spaces that were beautiful to us. And because I have grown up living in Brooklyn, being in Brooklyn my entire life, there were unexpected places, I guess unexpected to other people. Spaces that were really beautiful and defined Brooklyn. For me, I think the parks are really defining. Brooklyn has the most beautiful parks. And I wanted one of the north stars for this movie was to create an energy in the pace and sound and. And look that would leave an audience feeling like they spent time in Nature. And I think that Brooklyn is a wonderful place to, as Nicole, the actor just said, lay in the grass and look up at the trees.

Alison Stewart (14:37)

Nicole, your character has inherited this space from their grandmother. She has a certain feeling about it. Was it a dream come true for her to have this gallery, or does she have to make this gallery work? Or maybe both.

Nicole Beharie (14:54)

I love. I love how you phrase that. I think it is both. I think it's a. It's a dream can come true until. Until it's not. Until you change kind of the. The sort of thesis that we were talking about, like that coming of age as adults, how we continue to change and how the environs continue to change and how we react to that. But it is something that she very much wants to make work. And legacy is. You know, we talk about gentrification, but also there's just legacy in these communities and these old buildings and all the restaurants and the cafes and, you know, going into places and people sort of know your name or even your family name, you know, in the community from having decades of. Of being. Of being anchored there. And I think it's more about that even than the selling of art. It ends up being about something, you know, more than like, skin deep.

Alison Stewart (15:55)

Rachel, I have to ask you, I watched it two or three times. That was Lisa Luca. You have Lisa Luca in this film, is that right?

Rachel Holder (16:03)

Oh, yes. Yeah.

Alison Stewart (16:07)

For nerve. You know, book nerds. We all know Lisa Luca as a publisher, as this great person.

Rachel Holder (16:12)

How did you get her in your film, Andre? I mean, how do we get anybody in our film? Who's Andre? Yeah, that was. That was solely him. It was a. It was an idea that he had.

Nicole Beharie (16:30)

And,

Rachel Holder (16:34)

yeah, I don't want to give too much away about what she does, but, yeah, it was Andre.

Alison Stewart (16:42)

She's playing her part. Art is a big part of this film. Rachel, did you have an art director? Did you pick the art yourself? How did that come up on the screen, the various artists?

Rachel Holder (16:53)

We had an amazing production designer, Lily, who scoured the Internet with a reference point from my art decks for the film and found known artists and then aspiring artists to work with. And it was important to us to center artists of color. And she was. She was wonderful in. In finding the art and also just making the art of our locations, like every. Every room, even when we had to sort of pivot and start over on the day. She was able to make, come alive and feel lived in in a way that. That would normally be done in a full build out.

Alison Stewart (17:43)

And there's this Reference in the story of Lot's wife from the Bible, and she's turned to a pillar of salt by looking back at the destruction of Sodom. It's a piece by Henry Tanner, and it's about this lesson of, do you look back? Do you not look back? Do you look back? Do you not look back? Nicole, There's a moment in the show, in the cab, do you look back to see if he's there? Do you not look back? Why was this an important part of Casey's growing up in this film? This idea of do you look back?

Nicole Beharie (18:16)

You know, what's crazy, I can be honest about this, is like, there's always something in a piece that you work on that, like, stays with you. That was like. For you, you know, and for me, that was. That was the thing that was. For me, it was like, wow, this story about becoming a pillar of salt when you're saved from a thing, you know, or when something is changing. I just love that she didn't. And then very last second, you know, she kind of can't help herself or is trying to hold on to the thing. And we all kind of. We. We all can understand that. But for me, I just, like, I love that bit of allegory and the way that the. The painting looks. And apparently there are a few paintings of the same biblical reference, but yeah, that just concept, even as we're, like, navigating the world that Nicole the actress is in, the way that Hollywood is shifting the political landscape, everything that's happening, it's like, do you continue to try to hold on to what was or see things the way that you saw them, even if it was just like a year or six months ago? So I love that. Again, another beautiful gift in this piece. Sorry I'm getting, like, all touchy feely, but that is how I feel.

Rachel Holder (19:35)

Oh, that was great.

Alison Stewart (19:37)

That's what public radio is for. Get all as touchy feely as you like.

Nicole Beharie (19:41)

Yeah.

Alison Stewart (19:42)

Two final questions. Rachel, it's your feature directorial debut. What do you know now that you didn't know at the beginning?

Rachel Holder (19:51)

What do I know now? Oh, my gosh, so much. But, like, what's interesting to say out loud is what my mind is trying to find right now. So the way that I describe, like, television directing versus feature directing is like playing scales on a piano is television directing. And feature directing feels like a song and something that I. Something that I had have to do in television directing because you're. You're basically carrying out someone else's art and, you know, Keeping the boat afloat and feature directing. You are. It's more yours, but it's also a plane that's being built while. While flying. And I guess, like, one of the biggest lessons is the constant rewriting and how it can be thrilling. And I guess the. Yeah, I guess the biggest lesson is to not be afraid of the rewriting that happens at every stage. Writing is rewriting. And especially in filmmaking, especially in creating a song, you're always sort of starting over a bit to. To make it. To make it better, to make it more understand. To make it what it should be. Yeah, I think that's one of my biggest takeaways.

Alison Stewart (21:30)

Nicole, you were great in Ms. Juneteenth. We're gonna see you on the morning show soon. What does a part need for you to say yes?

Nicole Beharie (21:39)

Oh, man, you should. I mean, I guess it has to be something that.

Alison Stewart (21:43)

Like,

Nicole Beharie (21:47)

something that I feel like is global or, like, relatable on just, like, a human level, even if it's very specific to someone who. Like myself to play it. And then the people. You know, it's always the people. Like, I always come in loving the people and wanting to do the best possible job. So it's usually from, like, that hard space, either from admiration or in. In this case, it was like, I knew Dre really well, and at Rachel, and I had had some great conversations about what this would be. So I was like, yes, I'm in. Let's do it. Let's.

Alison Stewart (22:24)

And.

Nicole Beharie (22:24)

And kind of, like, did everything we could to, like, make it happen. So, yeah, those are the things for me. And then, you know, a good script without saying. But, yeah, something that I feel like is asking a question, and this one is very clear, I think. Yeah, I think there's. I guess that's the idea.

Alison Stewart (22:46)

That was my conversation about Love Brooklyn with actors Nicole Beharie and director Rachel Holder. The film has been nominated for five NAACP Image Awards, including Outstanding Independent Motion Picture. And by the way, I interviewed Andre Holland when he was in studio with Terrell Alvin McCraney for the revival of the play the Brother Sighs, which ran at the shed in 2025. And I got to briefly ask Andre about Love Brooklyn, what was hard about working on the film, and why the heck his character never rides in the darn bike lanes.

Andre Holland (23:19)

Oh, man. Producing.

Alison Stewart (23:20)

Woo.

Andre Holland (23:21)

It wore me out. It wore me out. But I'm so proud of the movie and so proud of what we made and ready to do it again, strangely.

Alison Stewart (23:29)

Nice.

Andre Holland (23:29)

Nice.

Alison Stewart (23:30)

Except the bikes, man. You were not in the bike lanes.

Andre Holland (23:32)

You know, everybody says that you were

Alison Stewart (23:33)

not in the bike lanes.

Andre Holland (23:35)

Okay, to be fair, Alison, there aren't that many bike lanes in Brooks. So maybe we need to, you know, start a petition for bike lanes. You know what I mean? Urban development right there.

Alison Stewart (23:47)

And that is all of it for our NAACP Image Award nominee show today. The award show will air live on BET and CBS this Saturday at 8pm I'm Alison Stewart. I appreciate you listening and I appreciate you. I'll meet you back here next time you've made it on time for the McDonald's breakfast menu. You think to yourself, finally I can start my day. But what if breakfast could be even more perfect with the hot honey sausage egg biscuit? It finally is. Go to McDonald's and get it while you can.

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