Podcast Summary: "Making The Most Of Local Bars"

Podcast: All Of It (WNYC)
Date: March 27, 2024
Host: Kusha Navadar (in for Alison Stewart)
Guest: Brian Kim (NYC Editorial Lead, The Infatuation)

Episode Overview

This episode of "All Of It" dives into New York City's vibrant bar scene—exploring how bars serve as crucial social spaces, even as "third places" (gathering spots apart from home and work) vanish elsewhere. Host Kusha Navadar speaks with Brian Kim, The Infatuation’s resident bar expert, about the evolving landscape post-pandemic, what makes a great bar for different occasions, bar etiquette, the rise of mocktails, and listener-favorite spots. With lively listener calls and practical recommendations, the show offers a guide for both seasoned bar-goers and those seeking fresh experiences.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Importance of Bars as Social and Economic Hubs

• Economic Impact: NYC is home to over 2,000 bars (as of 2018), generating $2 billion in direct output and employing more than 13,400 people.
  • [01:16] Kusha Navadar notes, "It's an important economic sector for our city and one that was hit relatively hard by the past few years. But obviously it's also so important socially."
• Bars as "Third Spaces": The disappearance of spaces like bowling leagues and malls leaves bars to fill the social void, especially in New York City.

How The Bar Scene Has Changed Post-COVID

• Bouncing Back, But Different:
  • [03:47] Brian Kim: “Bars are obviously busier... as busy as they were before in a lot of cases. But I don't know if like late, late nightlife has bounced back as much as you would think it would have.”
  • There’s a sense that while hours and crowds are returning, the late-night scene—especially for clubs and after-hours bars—remains quieter.

What Makes a “Bar”?

• Brian’s Definition:
  • [04:35] Brian Kim: “Bars, taverns, saloons, I throw them all in the same category. But... you have a line at the door, you have a doorman, you go to a place for dancing, then it becomes a club. If you offer bottle service, you're a club.”

The Infatuation’s Approach to Bar Recommendations

• Occasion-Based Guides: The Infatuation tags bar recs based on the occasion—date night, dancing, good cocktails, casual beer, etc.
  • [05:07] Brian Kim: “We like to specify what situations specifically they would be good for... date content... drinks with a friend... business drinks... dancing.”

What Makes a Good Date Night Bar?

• Qualities Sought:
  • Quiet enough for conversation, but not empty
  • Intimate, often dimly lit but not required
  • Not too expensive
  • [05:56] Brian Kim: “A good date night bar should be quiet enough for conversation, but not so empty or quiet that it's. It's awkward... Talia in the West Village is a great first date bar. It's a beer bar on Christopher street... when you get into, say, the 10th date or the 200th date, then maybe you get into fancier cocktail bars like, say, the Portrait Bar...”
• Examples:
  • Talia (West Village, beer bar)
  • Portrait Bar (NoMad Hotel, cocktail bar)

Where To Dance Without “The Club” Experience

• Brian’s Picks for Dance-Friendly Bars:
  • [06:49] Brian Kim: “The Last Call in Williamsburg, where you can listen to vinyl and have a dance party on a Saturday night... Black Flamingo, also in Williamsburg... plenty of places in the East Village, Lower East Side.”
  • Emphasizes places you don’t need doorman approval or bottle service to dance and enjoy music.

Listener Recommendations: Beloved Local Bars

• Harlem: Toolis recommends West Bank Cafe (West 42nd St.): Longstanding, neighborhood vibe, staff that remembers patrons. [07:50-08:28]
• Staten Island: Nadette loves Steinie's (“Siny's”) for its community—ages 21 to 61, all backgrounds mingle. [08:56-09:47]
• Jersey City: Motel No Tell—lauded for pizza and atmosphere.
  • [09:48] Malik (producer) seconds the recommendation.

Mocktails and Inclusive Menus

• Mocktails’ Rise:
  • [10:53] Brian Kim: “Nowadays it's almost weird for a cocktail bar or a new restaurant to not have a list of mocktails. So you have a ton of options.”
  • Examples:
    • Hellbender (Ridgewood): Virgin pina colada, guava agua fresca
    • Mr. Melo (Williamsburg): Phony Negroni
    • Lord’s (Greenwich Village): Full non-alcoholic selection
  • The prevalence of mocktail menus makes "not drinking" far easier and friendlier than it was a decade ago.

Bar Etiquette: Ordering and Interacting

• How to Order Like a Pro:
  • [12:32] “Just be patient, make eye contact with the bartender... The bartender knows you're there and they're trying to get to you. And this is true 90% of the time.”
• Making Friends/Meeting People:
  • Bring a friend, choose a casual, welcoming bar with social energy.
  • [13:33] Brian Kim: “Bring a friend and just, I don't know, just chat with people a lot. Pick the right bar... a nice welcoming atmosphere.”

Legacy Bars & Quiet Bar Recommendations

• "Elder Statesmen" of NYC Bars:
  • Attaboy (Lower East Side—no menus, just talk to the bartender)
  • Bemelman's (Upper East Side, Carlisle Hotel: old-school, live music, martinis)
  • Employees Only, Little Branch (West Village)
  • PDT, Death and Company (A wave of early craft cocktail bars that "stuck")
  • [14:49-15:50] Brian Kim: “A lot of these old or ten year old cocktail bars... the best ones, are still around.”
• Where to Have a Quiet Conversation:
  • Go-to choices: Dive bars, beer bars, wine bars (especially new wave/natural wine)
    • June Wine Bar, Lee’s, Vito, Sauced (caveat: Sauced gets loud)
  • Producer Kate’s Pick: Caledonia (Amsterdam Ave. in the 80s), “quiet enough to read a book there.”
    [16:37]

Additional Listener Bars and Questions

• Staten Island: Tracy recommends Flagship Brewery (“walking distance from the Staten Island Ferry”, craft beer & rye/bourbon cocktails, family friendly, brings your own food, pizza from Pier 76).
  [16:56-17:24]
• Tipping at Bars:
  • [17:47] Brian Kim: “Back when I started bartending, the standard was a dollar a drink. Nowadays, that does not seem like much… Me, I tip 20% on everything... kind of feel the situation out.”
  • It’s acceptable to tip by percent at high-end places, but don’t fret over absolute percentages for expensive drinks.

What Makes a Bar Stand Out?

• Brian’s Take:
  • Varies by context—solo night out, date, friends
  • Likes “less casual bars, bars with activities”
  • [18:35] Brian Kim: “The bar that hits the sweet spot for me... Marie’s Crisis in the West Village. It's a divey piano bar in a basement... they play show tunes all night that you can sing along to. So that's probably my favorite bar in the city. But if I'm going on a date, I'm probably not going to go to Marie’s Crisis.”

Final Toast: The Role of Bars

• Memorable Quote:
  • [19:55] Brian Kim (Toast to Bars):
    “Bars provide everything that you don't have at your apartment. Bars are a meeting place. Bars are town square. A town square on every corner. Bars are great for every situation. A date... where to break up with somebody. You can do anything at a bar. Welcoming places where you have fun.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [05:56] Brian Kim on date bars:
  "A good date night bar should be quiet enough for conversation, but not so empty or quiet that it's awkward."
• [04:35] Brian Kim on what makes a bar vs. club:
  “Bars, taverns, saloons, I throw them all in the same category. But... you have a line at the door, you have a doorman, you go to a place for dancing, then it becomes a club."
• [19:55] Brian Kim's Toast:
  “Bars are a meeting place. Bars are town square. A town square on every corner... You can do anything at a bar.”

Recommended Bars and Listener Picks (with Neighborhoods)

• Talia (West Village, Beer Bar) – First dates
• Portrait Bar (NoMad Hotel) – Fancier date nights
• The Last Call (Williamsburg) – Vinyl dance parties
• Black Flamingo (Williamsburg) – Dancing, basement club
• Steinie’s (Staten Island) – Diverse, inclusive crowd
• West Bank Cafe (Midtown West) – Neighborhood institution, pre-theater
• Motel No Tell (Jersey City/East Village) – Dancing, new
• Hellbender (Ridgewood) – Mocktails
• Mr. Melo (Williamsburg) – Vinyl bar, mocktails
• Lord’s (Greenwich Village) – Non-alcoholic options
• Attaboy (Lower East Side) – Cocktail bar, bartender’s choice
• Bemelman's (Upper East Side) – Old-school luxury
• Employees Only, Little Branch, PDT, Death & Co. (Various) – Classic cocktail culture
• June Wine Bar, Lee’s, Vito, Sauced (Various) – Wine bars for conversation
• Caledonia (Upper West Side) – Quiet, books-welcome
• Flagship Brewery (Staten Island) – Beer/spirits, family-friendly

Useful Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:16] – Intro to bar scene's economic/social impact
• [03:47] – How COVID changed nightlife
• [04:35] – Defining "bar" vs. "club"
• [05:07] – How The Infatuation guides by occasion
• [05:56] – Qualities of a good date night bar (+examples)
• [06:49] – Where to dance w/o club scene
• [07:50–09:47] – Listener recommendations
• [10:53] – Mocktails on the rise
• [12:32] – Bar etiquette: ordering and tipping
• [14:49] – Legendary bars that last
• [16:00] – Quiet, conversation-friendly bars
• [17:47] – Tipping Q&A
• [19:55] – Brian Kim's toast to bars

Tone and Takeaways

Warm, welcoming, and deeply informed, this episode balances expert advice with a spirit of inclusivity and curiosity—encouraging listeners to both revisit their favorites and explore new spots. With practical tips on etiquette, a celebration of mocktails, and heartening listener participation, it asserts NYC’s bars as dynamic anchors for community, connection, and, above all, fun.