Alison Stewart (3:34)

Nice listeners. Have you ever gotten ice cream at Malai in Carroll Gardens? Do you have a favorite flavor? Call or text us now. 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. Do you have any questions about making ice cream or are you part of the South Asian diaspora like Pooja? Who wants to shout out your favorite South Asian dessert? Our number is 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC or you can hit us up on Instagram llnyc. What does Malai mean?

Pooja Bhavishi (4:07)

So malai literally means cream and then figuratively can mean the best of something, the cream of the crop. And I just also always loved the way that the word sounded. It's like very soft and feels like ice cream. And so that's why I wanted to name it Malaise.

Listener/Host (4:21)

What was really difficult about getting Malai the store off the ground?

Pooja Bhavishi (4:27)

I think the most difficult thing about having an ice cream business in general is something really obvious but. But often overlooked, which is that it's frozen. It's really hard to keep things at temperature and to, you know, ice cream can go from being super rock hard, solid, unscoopable, you know, too, too hard for anything to melting in a matter of. And so like, it's that balance that we always have to make sure that, you know, the customers are getting the best possible experience and getting it at that right temperature where like the flavor is going to like meld into your mouth and you get all of the good stuff of ice cream.

Listener/Host (5:07)

Now you grew up in North Carolina, right?

Pooja Bhavishi (5:08)

I did, yes.

Listener/Host (5:09)

And your parents are first generation.

Pooja Bhavishi (5:10)

Yeah.

Listener/Host (5:11)

You're first generation, I'd say. Why did your parents first come to the country?

Pooja Bhavishi (5:15)

My dad came for schooling. Actually, he came for grad school. And then my mom Came over after they got married.

Listener/Host (5:22)

And when you were growing up, how did South Asian flavors, what meaning did they have in your life?

Pooja Bhavishi (5:29)

Yeah, it wasn't anything that was, you know, separated or distinct. It's just the way that I grew up. You know, I grew up South Asian, you know, like, with the Indian cultural heritage. And so it was just always present in really obvious ways and not so obvious ways. And so, like, when I thought of Malay and when I thought of the concept of Malai, it wasn't that I wanted to create this, like, Indian ice cream brand. It was really that I wanted to mainstream these flavors.

Alison Stewart (5:57)

Interesting.

Pooja Bhavishi (5:58)

I grew up in suburban North Carolina, and these flavors are. Was like, they were as common to me as anything else. And why aren't they as common to everyone else? Right. Like, this is. I'm as American as anyone else. And so it's a real bridge, kind of. It's exactly. So, like, it's really that I want. I don't want people to think that this is the best Indian ice cream that they've ever had. I want it to be the best ice cream that they've ever had. And so it's really that, like, if we are becoming these neighborhood local ice cream shops, how do we, you know, how do we become a part of people's stories? How do we become a part of people's lives? And it's through mainstreaming these flavors.

Alison Stewart (6:34)

It's so interesting. I heard about Malai last year when a listener to the show, Nick, wherever you are, thank you so much. When I was out with my illness, he sent me a gift card to Malai. I was like, this is really interesting.

Pooja Bhavishi (6:47)

I love that.

Alison Stewart (6:48)

And so I went on over. I was excited. I got on the subway. I went to Brooklyn, and I was blown away by the different flavors.

Pooja Bhavishi (6:55)

I was so happy to hear that.

Alison Stewart (6:56)

It was so great.

Pooja Bhavishi (6:57)

Do you remember what you got?

Alison Stewart (6:58)

I think I got the rose cinnamon.

Pooja Bhavishi (7:01)

Yep. Yeah. That's our most popular.

Alison Stewart (7:03)

Yeah. And I still have money left in that card, by the way. So I'm headed back out to you. I want to read a line from your book, your cookbook, which is frozen desserts inspired by South Asian flavors, says a stereotype recognized among Indian subcultures is that of Gujaratis.

Pooja Bhavishi (7:20)

Gujaratis, yeah.

Alison Stewart (7:21)

Thank you, Gujatis. They tend to like their food sweet. Indeed. We guarantees add sweetness to our lentils and other savory dishes. As if there isn't any sweetness in the main meal. We have a piece of. Goes on and on about how much you like sweet.

Pooja Bhavishi (7:35)

Sweet first of all, Is that true? 100%. It's so funny because I was having. My parents and I were having a meal. My mom made this very traditional kajarati meal just to couple of weeks ago, and there wasn't. It was a more savory meal. There wasn't sweetness in the dal. And so we all just took a piece of jaggery, which is like a South Asian sugar. It comes in block form. It's a little soft. It's a really interesting texture.

Alison Stewart (8:03)

Interesting.

Pooja Bhavishi (8:04)

And we just put it on our plates. Like, it's just something that we needed because we needed that sweetness to be there. So, yes, my sweet tooth is pretty bold.

Listener/Host (8:14)

Listeners, have you ever gotten ice cream at Malai in Carroll Gardens?

Alison Stewart (8:18)

Do you have a favorite flavor?

Listener/Host (8:19)

Do you have any questions about making ice cream at home? You can call or text us now at 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. My guest is Pooja Vaviche. She's the founder and CEO of Malai, an ice cream shop. And we're talking about her new cookbook, Frozen Desserts Inspired by South Asian Flavors. You write that your gateway into Malai was your memories of chai as a kid, and you really identify with chai. Why is that so foundational for you?

Pooja Bhavishi (8:53)

You know, I think for me, it was, like, kind of the ritual aspect of it. I don't remember a single morning of my childhood without chai. Like, it was always there, but it wasn't even just the flavor of it. Like, I grew up drinking chai. Like, I. My mom would mix a little dilute the chai with a little bit of milk. And so I would have chai every morning, first of all. And I loved the smell of it. It was just, like, really this intoxicating smell of spices and sugar and milkiness. And I just love the smell of it. And it really felt like home to me. But really, there's so many aspects of chai. First of all, it's like my mom making it every morning. No one but my mom makes the chai. It's the spice blend. The masala is my mom's family's recipe. So it's something that my grandmother created. My aunt continues on, and we get it from, you know, that the exact ratio of spice blend is what we use in our ice cream even, and it's what my mom uses.

Alison Stewart (9:51)

Yeah. I was gonna ask, how do you get that specific flavor from what you remember to your ice cream?

Pooja Bhavishi (9:58)

Yeah. And it's because of the spice Blend and exact the exact ratios. But what's so interesting about masala chai is that, like the actual drink is that what I remember most about growing up is this tea kettle that my mom used when I was a child, but also still uses today. And it's a stainless steel teakettle. And in the morning I would be upstairs getting ready and I would hear it clank. It would just be like this clank of a teakettle. She would finish making chai and she would close it. And to me, that was just a signal that the day has begun. And so there was just so many of these sensory moments of chai that just shaped my childhood. And it was just always, always present. And so that's why it just means so much to me. It really started this journey for me.

Alison Stewart (10:43)

We've got some good texts here. Love Malai. Been a follower since the Brooklyn Flea days. Recommend nearly every flavor. This one says yes. The gulab jamun kek.

Pooja Bhavishi (10:54)

Yes. Yeah.

Alison Stewart (10:55)

Are my faves. But every flavor is exquisite. Literally the best ice cream. The next one said, we made a special trip to Carroll Gardens to try the. Hope I pronounced this right. Gulab jamun cake.

Pooja Bhavishi (11:06)

Yeah.

Alison Stewart (11:07)

I was suspicious of how that would work, but it was delicious.

Pooja Bhavishi (11:11)

Oh, I'm so glad.

Alison Stewart (11:12)

Tell us a little more about this cake.

Pooja Bhavishi (11:14)

Yeah. So the gulab jamun cake. So gulab jamun is a very traditional Indian dessert. It's also one of the most popular Indian desserts here in the States. It's a like, basically a milky, like a milk powder based cardamom donut that is fried and then soaked in a saffron and rose water syrup. It's so, so good. It's so decadent.

Alison Stewart (11:34)

Oh, that sounds so good.

Pooja Bhavishi (11:35)

So we turned it into a cake by creating these like, saffron, saffron syrup soaked cakes. And then we take our signature rose with cinnamon roasted almonds ice cream and kind of sandwich it in between these cakes. And it has that kind of this feeling of frozen gulab jamun. But we actually like. So one of the things, because that cake is so popular, I wanted to always create it into an ice cream flavor. And so I did it in the cookbook. I did it for the cookbook. And that's one of the flavors that we're actually selling at Malai throughout now, especially for the cookbook launch, today's pub day. But even beyond. So we take that saffron rose water, cardamom flavorings and actually put pieces of the donut into the ice cream. So now there's Two ways to get this traditional Indian dessert at Malai in frozen form.

Listener/Host (12:22)

All right, you're telling me that I should go and use the rest of my gift cards, correct?

Pooja Bhavishi (12:25)

As soon as possible.

Alison Stewart (12:26)

Okay, let's talk a little bit about equipment.

Listener/Host (12:29)

You recommend that everyone have a microplane grater. You write in the book that it would take your microplane glater. You would take it to a deserted island.

Pooja Bhavishi (12:36)

I would, yes. I feel strongly about that.

Listener/Host (12:39)

All right, tell me about your microplane grater.

Pooja Bhavishi (12:41)

Well, it's just. It's the best way to get, like, a spice grated without pulling out your spice grinder or a mortal and pestle. Like, you just. You're able to, like, grate nutmeg or even cinnamon sticks. And, like, you know, it's just a really easy way to get some spice flavor. You can zest a lemon and orange, get some flavor that way. And also it's, like, good for savory uses, which is not applicable at all here. But, like, I use it to grate my garlic. So, like, it's just a good multipurpose tool.

Listener/Host (13:11)

You also list an ice cream maker. That's very important. We're talking about ice cream. What should people know if they want to invest in an ice cream maker but really aren't sure where to get started?

Pooja Bhavishi (13:20)

Yeah, absolutely. So I started malai on my KitchenAid attachment. So, like, I, like, when we're talking about, like, you know, not the most fancy ice cream maker, just like, what we have, that's what I started Malai on. Like, it was this freezer bowl attachment to an existing piece of equipment that I had.

Alison Stewart (13:37)

Interesting.

Pooja Bhavishi (13:38)

And so, like, I really recommend that there's a little bit of preparation involved there. You have to. There's a lot of ice cream makers where you have to freeze the bowl overnight so you can get that really creamy frozen ice cream. So there's some preparation involved. But there's also a lot of recipes in the book, I just wanna point out that don't require an ice cream maker or you can buy the ice cream and make the ice cream dessert from it. So I wanted to make it as accessible as possible. There are certainly recipes in the book where you will need an ice cream maker and you can get whatever variety you want. But I think that even, like a kitchen bowl attachment or a freezer bowl, anything like that is totally fine.

Listener/Host (14:18)

My guest is Pooja Bhavishi. She is the founder and CEO of Malai, an ice cream shop in Carroll Gardens, Brooklyn. We're speaking to her about her new Cookbook Pub today, Malai Frozen Desserts inspired by South Asian flavors. And we're taking your calls and texts. Have you ever gotten ice cream Alai? What did you get? Do you have any questions about making this at home? Give us a call. 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. You can call us, join us on air, or text to us at that number. You've got several recipes. You have a recipe in for sweet milk ice cream.

Pooja Bhavishi (14:56)

Yes.

Listener/Host (14:56)

That's basically the base correct at Malai. First of all, what does good ice cream base need to ultimately provide good ice cream?

Pooja Bhavishi (15:05)

Okay, I'm gonna geek out a little bit here.

Listener/Host (15:07)

All right, do it.

Pooja Bhavishi (15:07)

Okay. So what you want with ice cream when you're tasting ice cream is that you want a total and complete flavor arc. So you want to be able to taste the dairy. I mean, if there's flavoring in sweet milk, what you're tasting is really the milk, the dairy. But even in flavored ice cream, you want to be able to taste the dairy. So the first thing that you want to taste is the flavor and sweet milk is the dairy. The second thing is the dairy. So that continues for the sweet milk and it's going to round out the flavor. So after that you want to get some nuance. So we use a lot of cream cheese based ice creams. And in that you get like, because of like that saltiness and that little bit of tang that's in there, it's going to go back to the flavor note. So for rose ice cream, it'll go back to the rose, or for orange fennel, it'll go back to the orange fennel. Right. Like you'll start there, you'll kind of in the middle, it'll be there. And then because of the liquid sugar that we have there, whether that's honey or maple syrup, you want it to end on that note. It's gonna, it's gonna feel like a cooked sugar note almost, almost caramelly. And that's what you wanna end the kind of flavor arc on. And the reason for that is that you'll have a complete flavor. It won't feel like the flavor just you take a bite of ice cream and you know how sometimes it just dissipates in your mouth. You don't want that. You wanna feel really satisfied. And at the end of that, with that caramel note, you will.

Alison Stewart (16:35)

I love that story, the story arc of ice cream.

Listener/Host (16:38)

It's amazing.

Alison Stewart (16:39)

This says, I love that Malai does soft Serve.

Listener/Host (16:42)

Most newer ice creams don't do it. And the flavors at Malai are so interesting. Why did you decide to do soft serve?

Pooja Bhavishi (16:49)

Because I love soft serve. I think soft serve is so incredibly satisfying and it's really easy to, like, flavor it the way we want to flavor it. Right now we have cherry blossom, cardamom, lemon ginger. It's great.

Listener/Host (17:01)

This is great. This text says, a few years ago, Malai started offering soft serve during the warmer months. One made with dairy and one dairy free. My husband has celiac disease and a dairy allergy and I'm lactose intolerant. When we discovered the soft serve, which was hands down the best dairy free soft serve ever, it almost made my husband cry.

Pooja Bhavishi (17:20)

Oh, my goodness.

Listener/Host (17:22)

Let's talk about those kind of options. You have vegan options as well?

Pooja Bhavishi (17:25)

We do, yeah. We have dairy free options always available at Melai.

Listener/Host (17:29)

When you're thinking about cooking, I guess you wouldn't cook with. When you're thinking about making recipes with ice cream, what's important to keep in mind when you're already dealing with the ice cream and adding something else on?

Pooja Bhavishi (17:41)

I think the most important thing is just to get good ingredients. And so I talk about that in the pantry staple section in the cookbook, getting good spices. And I list a couple of companies where you can get really, really good spices. They're not sitting around in warehouses for a really long time. They're still really potent. That will make or break the ice cream experience. And so really getting ingredients is what's going to make your ice cream delicious. Yeah.

Listener/Host (18:08)

I was going to ask where to get rose water.

Pooja Bhavishi (18:10)

Yeah. So our rose water we actually get from the Indian store, the Indian grocery store. And it is, it's just, it has a sweetness to it. There's so many brands of rose water and you can pick the one that you love most. But like, when you're talking about whole spices, Burlap and barrel, Diaspora Company, Curio Spice Company, like all of these spice companies are really, are sourcing really ethically and are delivering amazing, amazing spices.

Listener/Host (18:39)

What has been the biggest challenge now that you're expanding? Sometimes when places are small, they stay small, they're great. And when they expand, sometimes something goes wrong.

Pooja Bhavishi (18:48)

Yeah, I mean, I think that we're experiencing the same growing pains that a lot of businesses go through. But it's very exciting. I mean, what we're trying to do with Malai, in mainstreaming these flavors and getting them to as many people as possible, we have to grow to achieve that goal. We have to grow. And so it's very exciting to see the reception that we have in place outside. You know, we've been in New York now for seven years. I've had the company for 10. And I love seeing people remembering us from like Smorgasborg and Brooklyn flea days.

Alison Stewart (19:19)

Sure.

Pooja Bhavishi (19:19)

Yeah. Like, it was just when it was just me in a tent. And so it's really exciting to see how many people are excited about these flavors outside of New York now as well.

Alison Stewart (19:29)

What's your favorite flavor? Come on. I have to ask you.

Pooja Bhavishi (19:32)

I'm not going to.

Alison Stewart (19:34)

Oh, come on. What's your second favorite flavor?

Pooja Bhavishi (19:36)

Well, I will say this. I love the combination of our orange fennel and our coffee cardamom together. Both of the recipes are in the cookbook as well. There's something about both the orange and coffee and the fennel and cardamom that is just incredible. Some chocolate sauce on top and you have yourself an A plus dessert.

Alison Stewart (19:53)

The name of the cookbook is Frozen Desserts Inspired by South Asian Flavors. My guest is Pooja Bhavishi. There's a special going on. Check it out. She's having a Sunday and book party. It's tomorrow. Have a great book party.

Pooja Bhavishi (20:07)

By the way, thank you. Thank you for having me.

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Pooja Bhavishi (20:23)

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