March Get Lit Preview: Adam Haslett, 'Mothers and Sons'

Summary

All Of It – March Get Lit Preview: Adam Hayslett’s Mothers and Sons

Host: Alison Stewart
Guest: Adam Hayslett, Author of Mothers and Sons
Release Date: March 12, 2025

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Introduction to Get Lit Book Club

In the March episode of All Of It, host Alison Stewart introduces the latest selection for the WNYC book club, Get Lit with All Of It—Adam Hayslett’s compelling novel, Mothers and Sons. Alison sets the stage by outlining the book’s central themes and providing background on Hayslett’s acclaimed literary career.

Notable Quote:
Alison Stewart emphasizes the book's significance, stating, “Mothers and Sons is the story of a workaholic lawyer, Peter, and his estranged mother, Anne. It delves into their complex relationship, sparked by a pivotal court case that resurfaces long-buried family secrets” (00:37).

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Overview of Mothers and Sons

Mothers and Sons explores the intricate dynamics between Peter, a dedicated immigration lawyer, and his mother, Anne, who has distanced herself by founding a women’s retreat center in Vermont. The novel navigates themes of estrangement, personal trauma, and the struggle to reconnect amidst professional and emotional barriers.

Plot Introduction:
Alison describes the protagonist, Peter, detailing his life in the high-stakes environment of immigration law. The story begins with Peter handling a challenging case that forces him to confront his past and rekindle a strained relationship with his mother.

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Interview with Adam Hayslett

When Did You Start Writing the Book?
Adam Hayslett shares that he began writing Mothers and Sons in the fall of 2019. “[...] the pandemic in 2020. So I've been writing it all through those years” (01:52).

Original Story and Evolution:
Hayslett explains his initial concept centered on the estrangement between Peter and Anne. “I knew that there was this estranged relationship at the center of the book. I didn't yet know their identities and what they would be doing” (02:13). Over time, Peter’s profession as an immigration lawyer emerged naturally, drawing from Hayslett’s experiences and interests.

Character Insights:
Delving deeper into Peter’s character, Hayslett describes him as someone deeply embedded in the bureaucratic and often impersonal world of immigration courts. “[Peter is] facing the system that a lot of people read about and hear about. But that up close is kind of a bit of a meat grinder...” (03:14).

Choice of Profession:
When questioned about why Peter is an immigration lawyer, Hayslett responds, “I think I've always been interested in the relationships of people in the helping professions... He needs to get from each client a lot of facts... He whittles stories down into the shapes that the law can comprehend” (03:53). This choice underscores the novel’s exploration of how personal narratives are shaped and constrained by institutional frameworks.

Reading an Excerpt:
Hayslett reads a passage from the beginning of the book, vividly capturing the austere atmosphere of an immigration court. This excerpt sets the tone for Peter’s professional life and hints at the emotional undercurrents that drive the narrative (05:00).

Themes of Workaholism and Loneliness:
When discussing Peter’s workaholic nature, Hayslett identifies loneliness as a key driver. “In our culture and capitalist culture, the loneliness is often dealt with by people hiding in work. It's rewarded” (06:45). This behavior masks deeper emotional struggles and past traumas that Peter is reluctant to face.

Character of Anne:
Anne, Peter’s mother, is portrayed as a former Episcopal priest who left the church to start a feminist spiritual retreat center. Hayslett explains, “She's still listening. She's still being a pastor in a sense, but it's a feminist retreat center” (07:47). This setting provides a stark contrast to Peter’s high-pressure legal career and serves as a focal point for their estranged relationship.

Flaws and Complexity of Characters:
Both Anne and Peter are depicted as deeply flawed individuals. Hayslett states, “They're both people who are thinking through how to help other people, but they're also hiding from something” (08:45). Their imperfections make their eventual reconciliation more poignant and realistic.

Easter Eggs and Key Passages:
Hayslett highlights a particularly significant paragraph in part three of the book, where Peter revisits his first love from high school. “[This paragraph] is when Peter really begins to enter back into his memories... I've probably revised [it] 100 times” (09:25). This passage is crucial for understanding Peter’s internal conflict and long-term estrangement from his mother.

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Excerpt from Mothers and Sons

Adam Hayslett reads a passage that sets the scene in an immigration courtroom. The vivid descriptions—“windowless,” “fluorescent lights,” “dark pink carpet”—create a stark, oppressive environment that mirrors Peter’s internal turmoil. The interaction between Sandra Moya and her son Philippe underscores the personal implications of Peter’s work (05:00).

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Conclusion and Upcoming Book Club Event

Alison wraps up the preview by inviting listeners to participate in the upcoming book club event hosted at the New York Public Library on April 2nd. She encourages listeners to reserve their free tickets and borrow an e-copy of Mothers and Sons through the library’s partnership with WNYC (09:08).

Event Details:

• Date: April 2nd
• Location: New York Public Library
• Tickets: Free, limited availability, available at wnyc.org/getlit

Final Remarks:
Alison thanks Adam Hayslett for his insights and looks forward to the community discussions that will follow. She hints at future episodes, including a watch party for the series Paradise and a continuation of their series on women in production with producer-writer Linda Perry (09:56).

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Alison Stewart (00:37): “…the story of a workaholic lawyer, Peter, and his estranged mother, Anne. It delves into their complex relationship, sparked by a pivotal court case that resurfaces long-buried family secrets.”

• Adam Hayslett (02:13): “I knew that there was this estranged relationship at the center of the book. I didn't yet know their identities and what they would be doing.”

• Adam Hayslett (03:53): “He needs to get from each client a lot of facts... He whittles stories down into the shapes that the law can comprehend.”

• Adam Hayslett (06:45): “In our culture and capitalist culture, the loneliness is often dealt with by people hiding in work. It's rewarded.”

• Adam Hayslett (08:45): “They're both people who are thinking through how to help other people, but they're also hiding from something.”

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Closing Thoughts

This episode of All Of It provides an in-depth preview of Adam Hayslett’s Mothers and Sons, exploring its themes of familial estrangement, the burdens of professional life, and the quest for personal reconnection. Through insightful discussion and an engaging excerpt, Alison Stewart and Adam Hayslett offer listeners a comprehensive look into the novel, setting the stage for meaningful conversations within the WNYC community.

Transcript

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[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Our book club get lit with all of it is in full gear. We are reading Mothers and Sons by Adam Hazlett. It is the story of a workaholic lawyer, Peter and his estranged mother Anne. Peter is faced with the case of a young man and it ignites memories and secrets he and his mother share from years ago, secrets that led to their decades long estrangement. Adam Hayslett is the author of the Pulitzer Prize nominated novel Imagine Me Gone and the short story collection you Are Not a Stranger Here, which was a Pulitzer Prize finalist as well as well as a National Book Award finalist. Adams Excuse me, Excuse me, who is it? Adams Excuse me will be with us on Wednesday, April 2nd at our partner's place, the NYPL, for our book club event and you are invited to get your tickets and learn how to borrow your E copy of Mothers and Sons from our partners at the library. Head to wnyc.org getlit Tickets are free. They tend to sell out really quickly, so reserve yours to get today. Again, that's wnyc.org getlit Adam Hayslett joins me now with the Get Lit Preview. Hi Adam, Hello.

[Adam Hayslett]

Hello. Thank you for having me.

[Alison Stewart]

When did you start writing this book?

[Adam Hayslett]

I started writing it in 2019, so it was in the fall of 2019. And then came the pandemic in 2020. So I've been writing it all through those years.

[Alison Stewart]

What was your original story of the book and how much did it change?

[Adam Hayslett]

So I knew at the beginning that I was going to be writing about this estrangement that you mentioned at the top, the relationship between the son, the immigration lawyer, and his mother who has gone off and started a women's retreat center up in Vermont. I knew that there was this estranged relationship at the center of the book. I didn't yet know their identities and what they would be doing and who exactly they would become. In my own mind, I'd gone to law school. I hadn't written about a lawyer before, so it quickly occurred to me that Peter would be a lawyer and a lot of my friends who I went to law school with had become immigration lawyers. So I knew a Certain amount about that world had done some volunteering in that world years ago before I knew I would write about it. So slowly but surely it came into view what their work lives would be. And those work lives turn out to be a large part of the book.

[Alison Stewart]

Where is Peter?

[Adam Hayslett]

When we meet him, he is literally in court. He's in an immigration court, Federal Plaza, downtown Manhattan, and he's with one of his clients. And he's facing the system that a lot of people read about and hear about. But that up close is kind of a bit of a meat grinder in which people's, you know, most dramatic things that have happened in people's lives are dealt with by a bureaucracy. And that's the. That's the reality of immigration court.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

Of all the kinds of lawyer he could be, why did you make him an immigration lawyer?

[Adam Hayslett]

Well, I think I've always been interested in the relationships of people in the helping professions, in a sense, the therapists, ministers, even good friends. But this is someone who has to help. But they're also constricted by the system they're working in. So he needs to get from each client a lot of facts, and he needs to get them to tell them stories about the most traumatic things that have happened to them. But unlike a priest or a therapist, he needs it quickly, and he needs it in order to shape it into a story that the law can see at some point in the book. I say it's about. He whittles stories down into the shapes that the law can comprehend. So that's. It just interests me, that perspective of someone who has to help but also has to translate those stories for courts.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

And I'm going to ask you to read a little bit from the book. Would you set this up for us?

[Adam Hayslett]

Sure. So it's really just at the very top, so there's nothing really to explain. But it is, as I said, him in court at the beginning with one of his clients, and it's just capturing the atmosphere in that court. So I'll just read very briefly. Judge Minetti calls out a name, Dovgal Matvey, and a white guy, mid-20s, gray sweatshirt, gold chain, makes his way into the enclosure. He's got a legal aid lawyer with him. The home address is Staten Island. His lawyer concedes his client received his notice to appear. He concedes he's removable. Declines to specify country for removal. Why make the government's job any easier? Judge Minetti designates Belarus. He's claiming asylum. Failing that, withholding of removal. Failing that, convention against torture. Callahan, the Department of Homeland Security lawyer, points out. Dovgal has a theft conviction, so he's expedited. The courtroom is windowless. They all are. There are the fluorescent lights flushed to the drop ceiling. There is the judge's miniature dais, the lawyers tables in front of it, the low bar with the hinged gate, the dark pink carpet. Respondents and their council cramped on benches either side of the gallery aisle awaiting their turn. No one's allowed to use their phones. All we can do is watch and listen. Beside me on the bench, Sandra Moya whispers something in the ear of her 14 year old son, Philippe. Ask Mr. Peter, she says. Then Philippe whispers in mine. How much longer will it be? My mom can't be late to work.

[Alison Stewart]

That's Adam Hayslett reading from Mothers and Sons. It's our march get lit with all of it. Book club selection. What has led Peter to being a workaholic?

[Adam Hayslett]

Well, I think a couple of things. Loneliness is one of them. I think loneliness is one of the themes of the book. And I think in our culture and capitalist culture, the loneliness is often dealt with by people hiding in work. It's rewarded. It's a thing you're supposed to do, you know, in New York City, competitive busyness, you know, everybody's always busy. And that loneliness, I think, leads him to just spend all of his hours working. The other thing that's driving it, and you alluded to it a moment ago, is is that there are things in his life he doesn't want to look at. There are parts of his past that he doesn't want to look at. And this client that he gets, the Albanian young man who's making an asylum claim, brings those memories up.

[Alison Stewart]

His mother, Ann, lives in Vermont. What's important to know about Anne, she.

[Adam Hayslett]

Was an Episcopal priest, and when her husband died, she ended up being with a woman and leaving the church and wanted to found a place where women could. It's still a spiritual retreat. It's just not a church. It's a place where women who are trying to find direction in their lives have a spiritual life of some kind, but are up against difficulties of various kinds. Go retreat into the rural area and kind of speak to one another in a safe space, essentially. So she's still listening. She's still being a pastor in a sense, but it's a feminist retreat center, essentially.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

One review I read said that Anne and Peter were both deeply flawed people. Would you agree?

[Alison Stewart]

Yes.

[Adam Hayslett]

They're both people who are thinking through how to help other people, but they're also hiding from something. And the way they hide is in fact by helping others. And a lot of the book is about that question of how do you help others? But let the stories you hear move through you in some way.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

We ask every author this if there's an Easter egg in the book or one particular passage that you worked really hard on or something that you want people to pay attention to while they're reading Mothers and Sons getting ready for our get lit with all of it book club event.

[Adam Hayslett]

So the first paragraph in part three of the book is when Peter really begins to enter back into his memories of this first love of his in high school. And that paragraph is one that I probably revised 100 times. So I guess that would be my choice.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

Adam Hayslett is the author of Mothers and Sons, our march get lit with all of it book club selection. Adam, we'll see you on April 2nd.

[Adam Hayslett]

Looking forward to it. Thank you.

[Unnamed Interviewer]

And that is all of it for today. Coming up on tomorrow's show, a watch party for the hit series paradise with Julianne Nicholson, who plays the cunning billionaire known as Sinatra. Plus, we'll continue our series on women in production with trailblazing producer writer Linda Perry. I'm Alison Stewart. I appreciate you listening and I appreciate you. I'll meet you back here tomorrow.

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