← All Of It with Alison Stewart
All Of It with Alison Stewart
'Marjorie Prime' Stars June Squibb, Cynthia Nixon, and Danny Burstein as Humans Grappling with Memory and Artificial Intelligence
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- [00:10]
A
This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. What if you could talk to a loved one who has passed away or act at least with a hyper realistic, artificial, intelligent version of that person? And what would you decide that they should know? That's the central premise of the Broadway show Marjorie Prime. The play is set in the year 2050 and it opens with Marjorie, who's having a hard time with her memory. And her kids think it's a good idea to get a Prime, a hologram AI design to look, sound and act like her late husband Walter. And in this case, he's 30ish and good looking. Marjorie's daughter Tess isn't so sure about all of this, but Walter prime seems to really help Marjorie, even if there are some memories that are just too painful to discuss. But of course, they do come to light. Marjorie prime is a show about memory and grief. It was a finalist for the 2015 Pulitzer Prize drama and is now on Broadway through February 15th. I'm joined now by the stars of the production, Danny Burstein, first time on the show. Dani. Nice to meet you.
- [01:16]
B
Nice to meet you, too.
- [01:18]
A
Cynthia Nixon. Hi, Cynthia.
- [01:20]
C
Hey, Alison, how are you?
- [01:21]
A
I'm doing well. And June Squibb. Hi, June.
- [01:24]
D
Hi, Alison.
- [01:25]
A
So, June, according to the Playbill, your first Broadway appearance was in 1959. 1960. Why did you want to sign up to do a Broadway show at this point?
- [01:36]
D
Well, I had seen the. I had seen Marjorie prime at Mark Tabor Forum when it was originally done, but when they asked me about this, I didn't remember. And I said, send me a script. And I just felt the script was brilliant. I just was blown away by reading this script. So I felt this is something I could do and that I should do.
- [02:01]
A
What's changed about Broadway since 1960?
- [02:03]
D
Oh, God, everything.
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C
Everything.
- [02:06]
D
You know, like I'm a different age than I was then. We used to go out every night drinking. I don't do that anymore.
- [02:14]
B
Yes, she does.
- [02:16]
D
No, I don't. Danny. Just occasionally.
- [02:20]
A
Occasionally. So, Cynthia, Danny, you guys are regulars on the York City stage in big productions. Danny, I think you've been in more than 20 shows in Gypsy and in Moulin Rouge. That was exciting. But this is a small, and I mean this in the best way, a quiet play. Why did you want to be involved in this project?
- [02:41]
B
Well, I had actually just, just finished Gypsy and the rehearsals for Marjorie prime started five weeks later, and I wanted to. I was looking for something different to do. That's what I try to do. I try to bounce between a musical, a play, some television and film. And I just try and make the next job different from what I just did. And I really. After 11 months on Broadway, I really wanted to rest and take it easy for a little while, take a little vacation, disappear. But the script was so damn good that I. I couldn't pass it up. And then, you know, knowing that June and Cynthia and Chris Lowell were going to be in it, I just knew I had to do it.
- [03:30]
A
Cynthia, what drew you to the tests? What drew to this character that you play?
- [03:34]
C
Well, I think that you can hear from both Danny and June how captivated all of us were when we read the play. I think that was a big thing. Annie Kaufman, who directed our play, she and I have known each other since we were in our 20s, when I worked on a couple of productions that she was the assistant director on. So I'd always wanted to work with her. And I just feel like, you know, June said this thing about how, you know, I felt like I could do it. Like, when I read the play, I was so struck by the inventiveness of it, the incredible. So much humor, so many big laughs, but also so much pain. And I recognized in Tess, you know, I actually, unlike Tess, you know, Tess has a very problematic relationship with her mother. I did not. My mother and I were very close. But apart from that, I recognized so much of myself in Tess. And I thought, hey, as June said, this is something I could do.
- [04:37]
A
June, a lot of people know you from your film work, Nebraska. Thelma, what do you like about performing on stage?
- [04:44]
D
Oh, gosh, well, the cast having the same people around you all the time is wonderful. And the audience, I mean, you don't get that. You do to a certain degree if you've got the crew involved, but basically the audience different every night, you know, is something very exciting. And you're playing to that, using that. So you're, you know, you're constantly aware of them.
- [05:14]
A
Let's talk about the AI in this play. Cynthia. Tess, she's really kind of not into prime at first. What bothers her about it?
- [05:25]
C
Well, a lot of things bother her about it. So Tess is a. Tess is a. A person with a lot of problems in general. And she's not a kind of a go along to get along kind of a person. She is the person who sees all the. All the difficulties with everything. But I think in the case of the prime, who is supposed to be her dad and who looks like her dad, but a dad that was younger than a dad that she ever knew. And I think two things really. She has always had to fight for her mother's attention, and now she's having to fight an AI for her mother's attention. And I think that, you know, we talk a lot in the, in the play about how Marjorie is so great with men and so flirtatious and so popular with men. And I think, you know, we all have a little bit of discomfort with that when we see our, our parents as sexual beings. But for Tess in particular, to see her mother being, being flirty and girlish with this young version of her father, it's, it's all too much. It's just too much.
- [06:40]
A
John, meanwhile, you think it's a good idea, Danny? John thinks maybe this is helpful for Marjorie. Why does he think the prime will help his mother in law?
- [06:49]
B
Well, it's not just helping his mother in law. Ultimately, I think he's, he's helping his wife. For John, Tess is, to use an oft used phrase now, is his person, that is the person he loves and will love till the day he dies. And he knows it. And he sees the prime as not just offering emotional and psychological support, but also a conduit to healing old wounds and a way of making her healthy again and a way of repairing their relationship. And that's ultimately what his job is in the play, to help his wife heal and to make her whole and to have that kind of loving relationship that he's always wanted.
- [07:42]
A
June, why do you think Marjorie wanted her Walter prime to be a younger version of her husband?
- [07:49]
D
I think that just the fact that he's gorgeous, I mean, Chris is so good looking, whatever, and I think, you know, it's brought up over and over in the play that she likes men, she wants to be with men, and she feels she knows how to handle men. And I think that's probably most of it, I think. Cynthia, Tess does touch upon something that I think is very important. The fact that he's, he's young enough that the, the pain of her life has not happened yet. And I'm sure that too has something to do with it. But I think that when you see Chris on stage, and sometimes when I look up at it, he looks like a portrait of a gorgeous man. I mean, and this is what he is.
- [08:43]
A
My guests are actor June Squibb, Cynthia Nixon and Danny Burstein. We're talking about their Broadway play, Marjorie Prime. It's running now through February 15th. June, how would Marjorie describe her relationship with her daughter Tess?
- [08:59]
D
I think she thinks she's Fine with it. But, you know, like, you can look at it and see the problems. I think she did not nurture Tess, and she was always. She was involved with the son who had great problems. And I think she. She felt this is what I should do. I should help my son. And Tess is smart. Tess is bright. She could take care of herself. And so I think that there is reality in Tess's feelings about her mother, but I don't think Marjorie realizes that. And at one point in the play, when Walter brings up the daughter and I say Tess, that it's with great. I feel great love. And I think she does not know that she has done this to her daughter, that she's not given her daughter what she needed as a child and as a young woman.
- [10:01]
A
Cynthia, if I asked Tess, what's the center of their conflict? Tess, what's at the center of their conflict?
- [10:09]
C
I think that, as Tess would say, that her mother, she never seemed to matter to her mother, that her mothers never seemed to notice her or appreciate her or even maybe like her sometimes, and I think sometimes, maybe particularly in earlier generations, but I'm sure still, even still today, you know, you have that kind of a woman who was so much the social butterfly and the center of attention and didn't even really know what to do with another woman in the room, even if that woman was her, was her daughter. Do you know that it's like men, like the son that June was talking about, that men are to be paid attention to and doted on, and women are there to, you know, be the person cleaning up in the kitchen kind of thing. And so I think that this is what Tess feels, that she doesn't ever can ever find the place where she mattered to her mother.
- [11:11]
A
Dani John is just trying to be a peacemaker. He's trying to keep a positive spirit in the family. How does he approach his role as a peacemaker, and does it affect him?
- [11:25]
B
I think it affects him greatly. He is not just a peacemaker, as we talked about a little bit earlier, and trying to heal his wife, but he also sees. He's able to see both sides. He's able to see Marjorie's issues, and he's able to see his wife, Tess's issues, and he sees that the prime is a conduit to healing, and he can help if he brings this prime into the house, he sees it as a positive. We have so many issues with AI sparking creativity and all that, but ultimately it doesn't, of course, replace humanity. And that is where he thinks he can program the prime into having that kind of humanity and helping his family heal.
- [12:20]
A
We're talking about Marjorie Prime. It's playing on Broadway now. We'll have more after a quick break. This is all of It. You're listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. My guests are actor June Squibb, Cynthia Nixon and Danny Burstein. We're talking about their Broadway play, Marjorie Prime. It's running now through February 15th. Okay, this is a little bit of a spoiler, but most people kind of know what the show is about, and they maybe have seen the film as well. Danny, John decides to tell Walter Prime a family secret about a son. We'll leave it there. Why does he decide that he should share this information with the Prime?
- [13:11]
B
Because it is a huge bone of contention between the mother and the daughter, between Tess and Marjorie. Marjorie hasn't spoken of the son in 50 years. And now that she's, as we all know, at the beginning of the play, slipping further and further into dementia, new things are coming out because she's able to talk to the younger version of her husband. And I see this as a way of opening a door to one that was shut in their relationship, in the mother, daughter relationship a very long time ago. And Tess feels, of course, that all that anger and sadness that Marjorie had because of the son's. Whatever happened to him, I won't say too much. She feels that anger and resentment and sadness was taken out on her and taken out on. On their relationship. And he feels that by opening that door, by allowing the young Walter prime to talk to Marjorie about that, new pathways can open in their relationship and healing.
- [14:27]
A
June, do you think Marjorie has forgotten about her son?
- [14:31]
D
No, I think she's in and out as far as I feel. She's in and out with her knowledge, what she remembers. And I think sometimes she remembers him and sometimes she doesn't. And I think it's written to me, it's written that way in the script where it's obvious that I am going back into that. And then other times when I just ignore that completely.
- [15:00]
A
We got a text from a listener who's seen the show, and it says, fantastic show, unforgettable performances. This is for Cynthia and June. How did your choices differ between living and the prime incarnations of your characters? Because you play both, Cynthia.
- [15:21]
C
You know, I mean, I guess in rehearsal, what I found was that I was leaning too much into the artificiality of the person and that. And Annie Kaufman, our director, really kept working with me to make her, at least in the timbre of her voice and the way she spoke, much more like the real Tess. But I. But there is a certain kind of a new hatch chick, particularly when my prime first shows up, because, of course, she doesn't know anything yet about herself and the world. And I think the thing that is true about all the Primes, which is so, I think, moving to me and sort of sad, is that the Primes are always completely 100% interested in the person they're talking to, as opposed to the human beings who have a million things to do, and they're thinking about that phone call they've got to make, and they're cleaning up and they're making tea and they're, you know, that. I mean, this is one thing perhaps we can learn from AI is how AI, just when it's talking to you, it devotes itself entirely to you, which is something that in our very busy world, we're less and less able to do.
- [16:39]
A
June, how did you and your AI, you, Marjorie and Marjorie prime, how did you differ a little bit?
- [16:47]
D
Well, I think physically I felt the Primes. With Marjorie, I just let her sort of go where she's going physically, you know, where it seems she's going. But with the Primes, I tried to keep a straighter back and just a body that was there and sitting and very proper and not moving that much. And I think also with the voice, you know, I tried to think in terms of, I don't know, for me, the word trill. Trill. But I don't know if that's a good word for it or not for what I'm doing. But it seems, you know, it seems that there. I don't know, it's hard to say it because for me, and I'm sure for Cynthia, too, it all just kind of starts happening, you know, and you don't question that much when the director doesn't tell you you're wrong. So, you know, you just sort of go ahead, well, this will work then, and go ahead with it.
- [17:48]
C
The Primes are very available and friendly and interested. And, you know, human beings aren't always that.
- [17:56]
A
You know, this play was performed or written a decade ago, when you think about it and how far AI has come. Danny, what do you think about this play as prescient?
- [18:08]
B
Well, it was definitely ahead of our time. I don't think 10 years ago anybody knew, even knew what ChatGPT was. And here we are, we have a generation of people just talking to machines and pretending they're real and Jordan Harrison definitely saw that before any of us really did and put it to the forefront. And it's a very interesting question that the play asks. What would you do if you could bring back somebody that you lost? And how would you want to remember them? And how would you want them to remember you? And would you tell them all the things that went wrong? And would you tell them all the things that went right? What would you fill that chat GPT hologram person with? What kind of information? And that, because, as Cynthia said, they have your full attention and they are with you and they are there to support you. And so maybe you would just say, you know, you were madly in love with me or whatever, just say the important things that would mean something to you and help you move forward. It's really, you know, kind of an intriguing question. And Jordan dared years ago to ask those questions.
- [19:37]
A
Yeah. Cynthia, Danny, we're all sort of the same vintage. And I realized when this play takes place, we would be Marjorie's age, you know. Right. Did you think about that when you were preparing for the role, Cynthia?
- [19:52]
C
Yeah, no, it's very funny. I'm born in 66 and Marjorie is born in 77. So she's actually, she's, you know, younger. She's younger than me. But it is funny to see a person of, you know, of June's age playing this. Playing this person. And that's how you begin to understand, like, oh, this really is in the future, but not, you know, hundreds of years in the future, just a little bit ahead of where we are. And, you know, the AI is such a big part of the play, but it is also. You could take the AI out and say, the AI is sort of like, you know, our children. It's like, what do we tell our children about ourselves and about our families? And do we tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth, or do we do a kind of a niceened up version of ourselves and our lives?
- [20:45]
A
That sounds like a Brendan Jenkins play, Brandon Jacobs play.
- [20:50]
C
Yeah, exactly.
- [20:52]
A
A lot of this play is about grief and memory. Dani, how do you think about grief and memory being connected in this play?
- [21:02]
B
Oh, gosh, it is. Wow. That's a very difficult question for me because I've had a lot of grief in my life, and I've had. And how I choose to remember the people in my life that I was close to that have passed. You go through the normal stages, And then you find a place of gratitude. And the interesting thing about John in the play is you see him at the very first stage, and he has to put his money where his mouth is. He's the one who's advocated for the primes the entire play. And then all of a sudden, he's faced with it, and he has to deal with the emotional ramifications of what went on throughout the play, and he has to deal with it, and he has to put up or shut up. And it's very interesting to see what happens and how he deals with that.
- [22:06]
A
June, how are grief and memory interconnected in this play?
- [22:11]
D
Well, I think each person in the play, I mean, funnily enough, even Walter, the AI shows, you know, when I tell him, I don't want you, he has the look on his face, you don't want me. I mean, it's wonderful. But I think even he shows, you know, like, what. What grief is doing to him. And I guess we all are in a way. I mean, I think Marjorie is. Is. Who knows where the dementia came from? Genes are something, you know, we don't know what. What causes this. And I just think that all of us, you know, we all. My God, at my age, like Danny says, you know, I've lost a lot of people. I lost. I sound like they're wandering somewhere off. No, they're dead. But, you know, and so you go through each one of these, as you do, and I think that's what Jordan is showing us in the play, frankly. I think he's saying, this is grief. We've all had grief, and this is how you handle it, or this is how humans handle it.
- [23:29]
A
I don't want to give away the end of the play, so I'll ask a broad question. Cynthia, what do you hope people will leave the theater talking about or thinking about? I saw it with my college roommate, and we're like, we have to get together, think about this a while. And we have to talk about this next weekend. I saw it on Sunday. We're going to talk about it next weekend.
- [23:51]
C
Yeah, I mean, I think. I think it does make one think a lot about people that one has lost. I think it makes one think a lot about parent and child relationships and the, you know, the troubles that. That parents and children have relating to each other. But also, you know, how AI is coming into our lives. And, you know, this is not like how the computer in 2001. These are not malevolent beings. They are actually trying to help these humans heal. So I think it's also. It leaves one with a very, very much of an ambivalence about the, you know, this is not AI as villains. This is, you know, makes you think about AI in your. In your own life, but also what is coming in the future. And not the far ahead future, but the future really right around the corner.
- [24:48]
D
Yeah.
- [24:49]
A
Daniel, what do you hope people think about?
- [24:52]
B
I hope they think about the immediacy of their relationships and how AI actually ultimately can't replace true humanity and that our time is limited and that they had better take advantage of life while it's here.
- [25:15]
A
June, do you want to add anything?
- [25:17]
D
I just want to say I think that it makes us feel the preciousness of our lives and our relationships and that we have to. I protect them, I guess, in a way, you know, And I don't feel. I'm not frightened of AI, but maybe that's because of my age. But, you know, I think it's gonna happen. And I think if we could use it in this way that Jordan's describing in the play, that that would be great. I mean, I just think anything. I don't think it will ever replace humanity. I think that we as artists will always have to have the human part of us.
- [26:01]
A
The play is called Marjorie Prime. My guests have been June Squibb, Cynthia Nixon and Danny. The play is running through February 15th. Thank you for your time today. Thank you.
- [26:11]
B
Thanks for having us.
- [26:12]
C
Thank you.
- [26:13]
A
There's more. All of it on the way.
- [26:22]
C
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