A (2:08)

Oh, gosh, that's a hard one. Okay, well, I'll start with Siri and Uptown Christmas Trees. Who's sitting next to me? I would say Siri and her parents. And uptown Christmas trees are really tradition and kind of, yes, family tradition and really heart and soul in Vermont. George Smith is definitely our comedic relief. He is. He is the class clown of our film. Big Greg and Little Greg, another tradition and a family story, but really just, I think if I had to pick one word, probably Santa Claus, because Big Greg is Santa Claus. And Heather Neville. Heather is a force of nature is how I would describe her. And between them, they control most of the stands in New York City.

B (2:55)

Siri, how long have you been selling trees.

C (2:59)

47 years since I was born, I've been in this business. I think I actually went to the city for the first time when I was 10, but we were tree orphans before that because my parents were always gone, so that's actually doing trees. My kids have been tree orphans, but now they're in the city.

A (3:17)

So.

C (3:18)

Yeah, I think I came to the city when I was 10 for the first time. That's when I sold my first tree. I started doing a location when I was, like, 15. I think the first time when I was 18, I did it and for years after that. So my whole life.

B (3:34)

What do you like about selling Christmas trees?

C (3:38)

I don't know if that is such a simple answer. I was steeped in it, so it fits my personality. There's so much crazy chaos and problems come up, and you have to solve them. And we always say that tree time. An hour of tree time is two days in normal business because so much can happen. And that fits my personality so well because I have add, so I'm usually, like, all over the place. And I also used to do crisis work, so I kind of tend to work really well in.

A (4:08)

In a.

C (4:08)

You know, that calms me, and it's. That is the most. The thing that I love about it the most. And really, my dad has, you know, the merchants of joy is very true. I feel.

C (4:22)

The fact that we sell little pieces of, you know, moments in time and joy and happiness. Christmas is like, you know, it's not just for Christians. It's a. It's a. You know, it's a. The feeling, and it's. That season is so long, and it's like, it's a favorite time of year because it's not just one day. It's the whole. And the Christmas tree is, like, the main center of it. So it's. And I'm very, you know, sentimental in that way, so I cry at, like, Hallmark movies.

C (4:56)

So, yeah.

B (4:57)

Documentary filmmaker question, where did you get the idea for the film? And then how did you track down the families?

A (5:03)

Yeah, so this story first became known to me and these five families through an article in Epic magazine called Secrets of the Tree Trade that was published a couple of years ago. Now, I, like many New Yorkers, I think we go to bed one day and we wake up the next morning, and a forest has grown in our city. And despite having been in New Yorker now for 15 years, I never thought to ask, huh, where did they all come from? And I love a story that's hidden in plain sight. It's One of my favorite stories to tell. The first person who sent me that article was my mother, who likes to claim that, you know, she is the reason this film got made as mothers do. And then dozens of other people sent me that article because I am an enormous Christmas fan. I love Christmas, as Siri knows.

C (5:42)

Well, look very Christmasy.

A (5:44)

I like very Christmassy. I have Christmas nails on and Christmas earrings. And then I met Big Greg. To start, I went to visit him at his house in Queens, and he. If anyone knows Big Greg knows immediately. You want a camera crew to follow me around, sign me up was his sort of answer. But he then also called each of the other families for me and said, there's this woman here. I think you should talk to her. And I always say, I think you guys were maybe a little skeptical at first, but I like to think that you saw my genuine love of Christmas.

C (6:12)

We did, for sure. But we do get a lot of people that, you know, want this, which is strange, because I don't think it's very interesting. It's just my life.

B (6:20)

It's your life. Right.

C (6:21)

So this is all very surreal and very strange to find that people are so interested in this business. But, yeah, we were a little skeptical, but it didn't take long. It didn't take long to see the vision.

B (6:34)

What did you notice, Celia, about the families, the themes that seem to run through the families? Each family is very different, but there is a central theme that runs through it.

A (6:46)

Absolutely. Greg said something to me early on in making this film. Greg is one of our tree salesmen who. He said, you know, look, we are all. We're hustlers, right? We're all street peddlers at heart. But the reality is, all of us could have chosen to sell anything, but we chose to sell trees. And there's a reason for that. And it's something Siri touched on earlier. Yes. You know, this is their livelihood. They're trying to make a living. But, you know, if someone came up to them and said, I need a tree, you know, they'd find a way to give them the tree. Right. Like, this is about something more. And I think for all of them, there's this sense of we are selling a piece of magic, a piece of joy, a piece of hope. There's a real unity amongst tree salesmen, a real sense of what they're doing as a real purpose and a calling. And, you know, I think now more than ever, especially in the documentary format, we hear true crime stories, we hear celebrity stories. You don't really get stories of working class Americans spreading joy. That's not something you see on screen a lot. So it was really an incredible thing for me. I just feel so eternally grateful to get to share a story like this on a platform as big as Amazon.

B (7:50)

Siri, there's a certain amount of sacrifice that goes into selling trees. Will you share with the audience, like, what you have to sacrifice for these 45 days?

C (8:00)

Well, it used to be now that I'm very happy that my children are here with me, but you're sacrificing time. You're in your own world here. This is. Everything else kind of goes away as it has to be. You have to. You know, my son broke up with his girlfriend, but he can't focus on that right now because everything is go, go, go hectic. Also, you know, it is interesting because I don't do anything else the rest of the year, but there's.

C (8:33)

You have. You kind of have to be able to be, you know, at the drop of the hat, having to, like, travel here. It doesn't leave time for, you know, another career that, you know, I was a therapist before and.

B (8:45)

Oh, that's interesting.

C (8:46)

Yeah. And there's not room for both because I wouldn't be able. So I had to choose between, you know, I touched on it in the movie when I was getting. It was like, do I want to keep devoting my time to doing therapy or is this going to fit my life better? But it's not room for much of another career.

B (9:04)

Do you ever find yourself therapizing people.

C (9:07)

Who are here all the time?

B (9:08)

Yes.

A (9:09)

Right.

C (9:09)

All the time.

B (9:10)

When they're talking about their tree, they're often talking about something else.

C (9:13)

I do it in the business, too, because I am. Heather and I are probably the only two women that are in this field and we deal with, you know, I use my therapy skills every day when I'm dealing with customers or, you know, wholesale customers or tree growers or. Yeah, you have to figure out how to be a woman in this and work in this industry.

B (9:37)

Let's take a call. Happy is calling in from Manhattan. Hi, Happy. Thanks for calling all of it. You're on the air.

D (9:44)

Hi there. I grew up in Plattsburgh, New York, where winter used to be winter and snow would be on the ground by Thanksgiving. And we'd go with my next two neighbors, my three brothers and I, and the four of them all packed into one station wagon with their father and drive up to a place called Lion Mountain, which probably had its name because they used to be mountain lions up there. And we would drive in and we were all given hand axes or both saws to cut down trees to bring back down. So you can imagine.

D (10:28)

Eight boys, one.

B (10:31)

Parent and a bunch of saws.

B (10:35)

And a bunch of saws all at once. Thank you so much for calling in. Can you tell us a little bit of the practical nature of, of getting the trees from.

B (10:46)

The north back down to New York?

C (10:48)

Oh, that is always a fun process. So usually I, you know, at the beginning of the season, I know how many, about how many trees I'm gonna have from each grower. Then I have to determine how many can I fit on a tractor trailer load based on their size, based on their grade also. Then when do I want this type of tree coming into the city? Because each weekend is different and what mix of trees do I want? So once I determine all that, I start to arrange for truckers because I'll know I'm gonna have five loads. I'm gonna want them on these days. Best laid plans, that is the best possibility is that you're gonna get those trucks in. It has to be at 7 o' clock at night because we unload them onto ours and then we deliver them through. But you can't do that during the day. That's the best case scenario. But that doesn't happen most of the time. What I plan is, is not what happens. Either they, you know, the truck is not on time, or they didn't put the trees on the same trees that I wanted. Or who knows, one of the, you know, it just, it never goes the way that you want it to.

A (11:54)

The year we filmed, we didn't end up including it in the movie, but one of their trucks broke down on the way from Vermont to New York, like, and they had to abandon it on the side of the road and come back for it.

C (12:05)

Yeah, we had to offload onto another truck. We almost had that happen this year too, because one of the lights all came on and one of the trucks, luckily we were early enough on, they were like, okay, there's a U haul place here and a heavy diesel mechanic here. Let's see what happens. And we. Again, an hour in tree time is a couple of days. And we worked it out and we went on our way.

B (12:27)

It's so much problem solving.

C (12:29)

It is. And it's. And you never know. Like, we got here and the season was so chaotic. I got there and showed up and Kevin Hammer had stolen one of my locations.

B (12:38)

We're gonna get to Kevin Hammer. We're Gonna get to heaven Hammer. But before we get to Kevin Hammer, Celia the tree, they get their locations through the New York City parks. Can you explain that?

A (12:50)

Yes. So once every five years, the tree salesmen have to put in closed bids to bid for the next five years of how much they're going to pay for their spot across the city. I think a lot of people don't realize a lot of land is parkland, even though it might not be actually in a park, if it's adjacent, if it's a sidewalk around it. And Siri, correct me if I'm wrong, but part of the thing about selling trees is that you want a really wide sidewalk. That's what you're looking for. And so a lot of park spots have great sidewalks, and so they're looking for those. And one of the five years happened to be capture the year we were filming. And so we did film. And what you learn from the filming of it is that there's sort of an unwritten rule you bid on the stands that you've had for many years. People, as you've heard, have been doing this for 30, 40, 50 years. You have. But sometimes people don't abide by the rules. And they like to come in and say, too bad and swoop a sand.

C (13:42)

Out of the chaos.

A (13:43)

Yes.

B (13:45)

So where did you end up this year?

C (13:47)

I kept the. I have my main hub, which is 124th in Madison, and that's where all of our trees come in. I am not different than a lot of the. Other than the other players in this movie is that I have a lot of locations that aren't at park, which is a whole different. You have to get them from either the permission from the storefront. You have to. If it's a co op building, sometimes you. It really depends on who the. You know, who you're getting them, whose store you're in front of or what building you're in front of. So it's very complicated. So I have 20 locations, or actually I had 20 and then now I have 19, because again.

C (14:29)

Kevin Hammer. Kevin Hammer, right.

B (14:31)

We'll talk about him in a minute.

C (14:33)

Yes. So I ended up at. I got everything that I bid on.

B (14:37)

So I'm speaking to Celia Aniskovich and her documentary Merchants of Joy. Also joining us is one of its subjects, Siri Nash, who runs Uptown Christmas Trees. The documentary is available to stream now on Prime Video. I suggest you do it. Let's talk to Bernadette, who's calling from the Catskills, actually. Hi, Bernadette. Thanks. For calling all of it. You're on the air.

D (14:59)

Hey, it's great to be on the air. Thank you so much. I love this topic. I love Christmas. I'm going to tell you the story of going to get a Christmas tree with my father in Riverdale in the Bronx. It was in a schoolyard at St Margaret's and basically I picked out the tree. I was thrilled. The vendor said $10. My father said, I'll give you five. I was like, what are you doing? What? We're going to lose this tree. And then the vendor said nine. My father said six. Vendor went down to eight. My father said, 750. I needed, like, therapy by the time this was over because I still wanted that tree anyway. We got the tree for 750, and I learned the art of negotiation. So it was a. It was a memorable time. I've never forgotten it. And I always love watching those trucks roll into the city.

B (15:47)

Got a practical, practical advice out of it as well as a magical moment. Thank you for calling. Let's talk to Hollywood Holly. Thank you for calling all of it. You're on the air.

D (15:59)

Thank you so much. I love your show.

A (16:00)

Allison.

D (16:01)

I sold Christmas trees part time for a couple years, and I just want to say, like, in terms of a retail position, it is the best because everyone is happy like you. Any other retail position, people are not. Are not as exciting. So I highly recommend selling Christmas trees.

B (16:17)

Thank you for calling. Is there a way you need to. Is there a way to sell a Christmas tree?

C (16:25)

I think you have to just find out what the customer is looking for. Because the biggest question we get is how much are the trees? And there's not a simple answer for that. It's like, well, what kind of tree do you want? Like what. You know, we always say we have a tree for every budget, so. And there's always a home for every tree because you just find out what that person is really looking for. You can get an idea, like, they may not even know what they're looking for. So you just start asking questions. And I think that. And then also they, you know this. The last caller was correct. It is. Or Celia was correct, too. It's like, you, you. You can feel good about this because people are happy. Like, you're. It's. Once you find. They find that tree that they want. Oh, that's such a. You know, every time that never gets old. Never gets old. Counting the, like showing a kid how to count the rings to see how old their tree is and telling them all this you know, that's one of the things that's the best about it.

A (17:20)

People often ask me, you know, how was it to spend, you know, all these days on the streets of New York filming this? And not only were we with the tree salesman, but we. We filmed every New York City Christmas experience. You'll see a Puerto Rican paramba in East Harlem. You'll see, you know, 30 rock. You'll see all sorts of different things and other holiday celebrations, too. And I think the cynical New Yorkers and us want to say, ugh, we're fighting the crowds. But I have to say, like, it was magic at every turn. I mean, it really is. That caller was right. You're right. Like, there's just something about it. There's magic everywhere.

B (17:51)

You don't shy away from difficult topics, though. Sobriety is a big issue in the film. You mentioned it earlier, Siri. When did it become clear this would be a part of the documentary?

A (18:03)

Celia, what I have to say is every single one of the tree salesmen came to this project with such authenticity and vulnerability. I say to anyone, if you go visit any of the tree stands, they will appear exactly in real life as they are in the film. They are completely themselves. And I was so honored that they trusted me in that way.

B (18:23)

Heather, who runs near Sea Tree lady.

A (18:25)

Is nine years sober as an example as well. Yes. And. And Big Greg was as well. You know, a number of our. Our participants, the tree salesmen, are. Are sober. And so that just sort of naturally came out. But I also think. I mean, I don't know your opinion on it, but I feel like it gives you a different lease on life as well, which tied into many of the things we were talking about and asking. And that sense of. Big Greg says it. That AA teaches you. You take it one day at a time. And he said it was the day. Spoiler alert. He got his cancer diagnosis, and he said, I'm selling flowers today. Today's a pretty good day. Tomorrow might not be, but today's a pretty good day. And I love that perspective. And I see it so much with all of you that you go through, like, okay, we didn't sell a lot of trees today, but you know what? Tomorrow could be a good day.

C (19:10)

Yeah, it rained all day yesterday, but that was yesterday.

B (19:14)

That did surprise me. I thought about you yesterday as it was raining. I was like, I didn't normally think about the weather, but that's a hu. Again, two days.

C (19:22)

It makes a huge difference. Yeah.

A (19:24)

Help a tree salesman go buy a tree when it's raining helps them a lot.

C (19:27)

It's actually not that fun to sell a tree when it's raining for anybody involved. But it's so funny.

B (19:33)

I walk by Heather every day on the way to work and I see her doing her magic.

C (19:39)

Yeah, I love that.

B (19:40)

It's kind of wild. Let's talk about Kevin.

D (19:47)

Wow.

B (19:49)

All right. How would you describe Kevin, who did not agree to be necessarily in the documentary? You have his voice in the documentary fairly briefly, but we get a sense of who Kevin is.

A (20:03)

So Kevin is one of our five tree salesmen. The other four are in the film Kevin, as you described, only his voice is in the film. Through recorded phone calls that I did with him in New York, I would describe Kevin the way that other people have described him to me. I've never met him in person, so I don't. Siri has and can speak to that more. People have described him as the Keyser Soze of Christmas. They've described him as the Donald Trump of the tree trade. He has more stands than anyone, and.

A (20:34)

He is serious about people encroaching on his territory and he will do whatever it takes.

B (20:40)

He's.

C (20:40)

Yeah, he doesn't really care too much of who he pisses off.

B (20:45)

This says, we used to get real trees until we got two cats. Are there any trees that are safe for cats?

C (20:54)

I don't know what safe means. Keeping them off of it. Good luck.

A (20:59)

This might be an answer that I know, actually. So I don't know about keeping them off, but I've heard that for pets, they're worried about people drinking the water in the tree. And you actually can get. I was at a tree show. You can get this sort of gel material now that even if they try to eat, it's safe for them, but they don't because it's more solid and it still hydrates the tree.

C (21:17)

I wish that I had the answer for that, but unfortunately I think that that is just a cat problem you're never going to get rid of.

B (21:25)

This text says, I walk past St. Mark's Church in the Bowery, Second Avenue between 10th and 11, at a much slower pace this time of year, savoring that precious smell of pine.

C (21:36)

Is that on 42nd Street?

B (21:38)

That's on the Lower east side.

C (21:40)

Yeah. But between 9th and 10th is when is. We have a spot right there. It might be 42nd, and that spot is so beautiful. It's. He has so much room. He's got lights up. It's like a little forest. I recommend anybody just walking through there if you want. It smells so good because there's a bakery right there, too. So you got the Christmas. Oh, it's so beautiful. I was just down there yesterday.

B (22:00)

What questions do people have for you when they come to get their trees?

C (22:06)

When they come to get their tree?

B (22:08)

Yeah, you know, show up, here I am, I'm gonna get a tree. What do they want to know?

C (22:12)

Most people, what I've. It's been a bit since I've been on the street, but lots of people want to know the different types, like, what's the difference which one the needles are going to fall off on? Also, can you plant it? After which, no, you cannot. Has no roots. Do we deliver? Yes, we do. How much do they cost? But again, that's a very. That's not the simplest answer.

A (22:39)

I will say too. The one that I get when we were talking about this right before we came on is we've seen so many people say, oh, but I buy a fake tree because you're cutting down the real trees. That's such a misperception of what's actually the reality, which is that trees are a crop and for every tree that gets cut down, five more gets planted. And so if you're comfortable eating corn, you should be comfortable buying a real tree. And it's, it's not bad for the environment.

C (23:00)

It's actually better than mass produced agriculture because these are actually trees that grow natively in forests, which this is. What the land would be is forest land. And it's. So it's not like you're cutting down a rainforest and planting palm oil trees because those are homogenous and not part of the environment. These trees, they're, you know, the Frasers only grow in certain parts because they. Balsams only grow in certain parts of Canada. So that's what they're growing. So it is again, when it's, you know, it's like Celia said, you cut down a tree, you're planting five to 10 more. And it is. So it is sustainable and renewable, unlike fake Christmas trees.

B (23:42)

What is the role of big box stores in the Christmas tree?

A (23:47)

Big box stores are loss leaders. So if you say, oh, I go to Trader Joe's and I get my, you know, $29.99 tree, they're not actually making money off their trees. They're loss leaders that bring you into their stores to buy other stuff. So this is probably my biggest rallying cry. Buy from a mom and pop. Buy from one of these tree sellers. You don't need to give more money to a Big box store.

C (24:08)

You should.

C (24:10)

Go for it.

A (24:10)

She wants in.

C (24:11)

How many people bring their trees to us to cut the bottoms off because they don't give you that experience? And how many people come back to us like, I brought my tree and now it's dead. It's because nobody's there being like, okay, you need to cut the bottom off. You need to, like, you know, they. They just care about here. You take this tree and leave. There's no variety. There's no. There's no feeling. There's no feeling.

B (24:36)

This text says, which tree smells the best?

C (24:39)

Balsam.

B (24:41)

Why?

C (24:42)

It's just. Just the.

A (24:43)

Just.

B (24:44)

Just does.

C (24:44)

Just does. It's the traditional Christmas tree. It's the old school. It's been a Christmas tree forever. And they've only gotten, like, in the recent years, Frasers have only gotten more, you know, popular, like probably in the last 15 years. But Balsam is that traditional. And it's. Yeah. You can tell when you walk into your house when you first put it up.

B (25:02)

The name of the documentary is Merchants of Joy. You can watch it on Amazon Prime. I've been speaking to its director, Celia Aniskovich, and Siri Nash, who runs Uptown Christmas Trees. Thanks for coming in. We really appreciate it.

C (25:17)

Thank you.

B (25:18)

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A (25:34)

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B (25:36)

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