ALL OF IT with Alison Stewart – Episode Summary

Episode: Michael Shannon and Paul Sparks in 'Waiting for Godot'

Air Date: November 14, 2023
Host: Alison Stewart (WNYC)
Guests: Michael Shannon, Paul Sparks (actors), Aaron Arbus (director)

Overview

This episode delves into the new Brooklyn production of Samuel Beckett's absurdist classic, Waiting for Godot, at Theatre for a New Audience. Host Alison Stewart is joined in studio by director Aaron Arbus and lead actors Michael Shannon (Gogo) and Paul Sparks (Didi), longtime friends and collaborators. Their conversation explores the play’s contemporary resonance, its physical and emotional demands, the dynamics of friendship (on- and off-stage), and the interpretive choices of staging this iconic work.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Rediscovering 'Waiting for Godot' on Stage (03:19–06:23)

• Why revisit this play now?
  • Michael Shannon reflects on the play’s deceptive simplicity and the intense precision acting it demands. Having first seen it as a preteen, Shannon is now struck by how, despite “not much happening,” it is rigorously structured:

    "For a play that’s ostensibly about not much of anything happening, it’s actually an incredibly precise play and it demands great precision in performing ... I think I’ve had more difficulty with this than probably any other play I’ve ever done." (Michael Shannon, 03:37)

  • Paul Sparks emphasizes the emotional and physical demands that only became clear through rehearsal and performance:

    "...it is intellectual, but it’s such an emotional play. It’s very demanding of all aspects of yourself ... we were both pretty wrecked" after five-show weekends. (Paul Sparks, 05:10)

2. Directing a Classic: Making It Fresh (06:23–07:50)

• Aaron Arbus on creative choices: Arbus tries to avoid being too conscious of the weight of Beckett’s legacy. Instead, she focuses on discovery with her cast, trusting the play will offer new mysteries each time:

  "I really try not to think about the history too much ... this play is extraordinary and unbelievably mysterious." (Aaron Arbus, 06:46)

• She notes Beckett's 'bossiness' in stage directions but also the opportunity for company-wide authorship.

3. Character Dynamics: Didi and Gogo as Tigger and Eeyore (07:50–10:59)

• Comparing Beckett to Winnie the Pooh:
  • Sparks likens their dynamic to Tigger and Eeyore: “Didi of the air, Gogo of the earth” (Paul Sparks, 08:02), explaining how they always balance each other’s mood and how that reflects all relationships.
  • Shannon adds:

    "Particularly in this modern society ... it seems like every other person you meet says, ‘Oh, yeah, I’m bipolar.’ Well, here are the poles. Vladimir’s up, I’m down." (Michael Shannon, 10:20)

  • Both actors resist the common suggestion to swap roles mid-run, asserting the stark individual differences between the characters.

4. Physicality and Process: Finding the Performances (10:59–12:12)

• Sparks discovers Didi’s physical energy—his “bounce”—organically through attention to Beckett’s text, not through pre-planned movement.
• Shannon views Gogo less as an individual and more as a “state” that’s universally human:

  "Estragon, to me, is not a person. He's a state. He's something that resides in ... the majority of human beings." (Michael Shannon, 12:20)

5. Directorial Staging: Fully Engaging the Audience (13:38–16:50)

• Day/Night and Visibility:
  • Arbus discusses the choice to keep the house lit, making audience members visible to each other and the performers—fostering complicity and engagement:

    "I was interested in creating an intimate relationship between the actors and the audience . . . everyone actually has a different vantage point." (Aaron Arbus, 14:24)

  • Shannon underscores this point: “We want [the audience] to feel like they're creating this with us.” (Michael Shannon, 16:25)

6. Hope, Waiting, and Human Nature (16:50–20:32)

• Sparks explores how Didi finds hope in waiting, and how this resonates with his own personality—hope as both thrilling and caustic:

  “He is excited about hope, but he is also a little manic about hope ... I can feel his fingernails dug into the ground.” (Paul Sparks, 17:18)

• Shannon contrasts the two characters’ stances toward hope and survival:

  "The play is about survival and death ... there are two ways to navigate life: struggle and hope, or succumb and have low expectations." (Michael Shannon, 19:25)

7. Performative Choices: Pre-Show Presence & Breaking the Fourth Wall (20:32–21:44)

• Shannon on his pre-show stage presence:

  "I'm looking at all of you as you come in ... This is not a contained thing ... you're here too, and I see you." (Michael Shannon, 20:46)

• Sparks jokes:

  "So good luck, Mike. Shannon sees you." (Paul Sparks, 21:44)

8. Pandemic Parallels & The Theme of Waiting (21:52–23:14)

• Arbus recounts how rehearsals were delayed by COVID-19, paralleling the play’s theme of interminable, uncertain waiting:

  "We had a long experience of waiting to get to our first day of rehearsal ... These characters ... are as confused as I am in my life.” (Aaron Arbus, 22:21)

9. Beckett’s Stage Directions – Rule or Guide? (23:14–25:19)

• Arbus and the actors discuss the challenge of Beckett’s highly specific directions and their strategies for maintaining both fidelity and authenticity.
• Sparks notes some have called it a "modern take," but they're surprisingly exact—“except for Mike’s half steps that he's added.” (Paul Sparks, 24:18)

10. Collaboration & Friendship on Stage (25:19–31:12)

• Arbus praises the deep, real-life friendship between Shannon and Sparks, noting how it echoes the decades-long relationship of Didi and Gogo:

  “This is about people who have been together for 50 years, and Michael and Paul know each other incredibly deeply . . . and they have this incredibly rich relationship on stage.” (Aaron Arbus, 25:30)

• The actors reflect on the benefits of their collaboration:
  • Shannon:

    “I think it’s hard to overstate the sheer amount of physical and mental endurance that you’re going to see from Paul Sparks in this play.” (Michael Shannon, 27:01)

  • Sparks:

    “[Michael Shannon] is probably the most honest person that I know, and he reeks of honesty on stage, which I think is ... profound to work with.” (Paul Sparks, 28:48) “I wouldn’t do this with anyone else ... I’m interested in exploring this play with Michael and, you know, that’s what it is. It’s a delight.” (Paul Sparks, 29:39)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Precision of Beckett’s writing:
  “I think I've had more difficulty with this than probably any other play I've ever done in terms of even just memorization ... the most concentration and focus of any play I've ever done in my life.”
  —Michael Shannon (03:37)

• Emotional and Physical Demands:
  “It’s such an emotional play. It’s very demanding of all aspects of yourself. … we were both pretty wrecked.”
  —Paul Sparks (05:10)

• Hope as character motivation:
  “He is excited about hope, but he is also a little manic about hope... it's a caustic relationship that he has with hope, I think, and with the idea of Gato coming.”
  —Paul Sparks (17:18)

• Audience as participants:
  “We want the audience to be complicit in what's happening, that we don't want them to feel like they're separate from us ... we refer to them often in the play, and we want them to feel like they're creating this with us.”
  —Michael Shannon (16:25)

• On partnership and trust:
  “He [Shannon] is probably the most honest person that I know, and he reeks of honesty … I wouldn't do this with anyone else.”
  —Paul Sparks (28:48–29:39)

Important Timestamps for Segments

• 03:19 – Discussion begins on staging 'Waiting for Godot'
• 06:46 – Director Aaron Arbus on tackling a classic
• 07:59 – Tigger & Eeyore analogy for Didi and Gogo’s relationship
• 10:59 – On discovering Didi’s “bounce”/physicality
• 12:20 – Shannon: Gogo as a “state” of being
• 14:24 – Audience engagement and staging choices
• 16:25 – Involving the audience as “complicit”
• 17:18 – Paul's reflections on hope
• 19:25 – Shannon compares hope to survival
• 20:46 – Michael’s pre-show on-stage mental process
• 21:52 – Pandemic’s impact on the production’s theme of waiting
• 23:27 – Approaching Beckett’s specific stage directions
• 25:30 – Director on the actors’ real-life friendship
• 27:01 – Shannon cheers on Sparks’ performance
• 28:48 – Sparks on Shannon’s honesty and partnership

Episode Takeaways

• This production of Waiting for Godot is deeply informed by the real-life friendship and history between Michael Shannon and Paul Sparks, bringing an unusual authenticity and intimacy to their performances.
• The cast and director strive for fidelity to Beckett's text while infusing the play with contemporary resonance, especially the universal experience of waiting and uncertainty post-pandemic.
• The show's physical staging and actor-audience dynamics aim to make the performance an immersive, collective event, not a passive spectacle.
• Above all, the episode highlights the enduring power and mystery of Beckett’s work—and the richness that collaboration and trust bring to classic theater.