Podcast Summary

Podcast: All Of It with Alison Stewart
Episode: MoMA's Wifredo Lam Exhibit Closing Soon
Date: April 3, 2026
Guests: Christophe Cherix and Beverly Adams (Co-curators of the exhibition)

Episode Overview

This episode spotlights the soon-to-close MoMA exhibition "Wifredo Lam: When I Don't Sleep, I Dream." Alison Stewart interviews co-curators Christophe Cherix and Beverly Adams, exploring Lam’s career trajectory, his relationship with MoMA, the cultural and spiritual fabric of his art, and the significance—and challenges—of mounting this comprehensive retrospective. The conversation delves into Lam’s unique artistic journey, the significance of key works like "The Jungle," and the complex influences shaping his later art.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Wifredo Lam’s Relationship with MoMA

• Early Connection (01:23–02:43):

  • The museum’s relationship with Lam dates to 1939, just ten years after its founding.
  • MoMA’s first director, Alfred Barr, visited Lam’s first Paris exhibition (at Galerie Pierre, under Picasso’s guidance) and acquired "Mother and Child" on the spot.
  • Barr continued supporting Lam, later acquiring works in Havana, showing the museum’s commitment to an international vision and emerging artists.

  “It started in 1939, so only 10 years after the very founding of the Museum of Modern Art... Barr acquired a work on the spot, Mother and Child, a beautiful work from the late 30s made the same year, which now hangs in the exhibition.”
  — Christophe Cherix, (01:29)

  • Within six years, MoMA had acquired three key Lam works.

2. The Journey and Display History of "The Jungle"

• Placement & Narrative (02:43–03:59):

  • "The Jungle" once hung in the MoMA lobby, not the galleries.
  • It was initially presented as contemporary art but later shifted outside the central narrative of modernism MoMA promoted.
  • Lam, as a transnational and multicultural artist, didn’t fit neatly into established categories, leading the museum to struggle with how to present his work.

  “He was a transnational artist, he was from Cuba, he was black, he was Chinese. He made this amazing picture... but he didn't fit tidily into any of the categories that the museum was trying to create and maintain at that time.”
  — Beverly Adams, (03:27)

3. Assembling the Exhibit: Scarcity, Scale, and Global Reach

• Collecting the Works (04:20–05:15):

  • The exhibit brings together art from 59 lenders (39 private, 20 institutional).
  • The largest and most fragile work had not been exhibited since the 1950s due to its size (almost 15 feet) and delicacy.
  • This major piece was a special priority for inclusion in the MoMA show.

  “Maybe the most challenging of all, was his largest ever made work, almost 15 foot long, almost mural size... it had not been exhibited since the mid-50s.”
  — Christophe Cherix, (04:36)

4. Discovering and Showcasing Lam’s Later Work

• Beyond "The Jungle" (05:23–06:11):

  • The curators emphasize moving visitors past Lam’s famous works to discover his prolific late period, including rarely seen "Bruce" paintings from the 1950s shown in New York for the first time.

  “One of the goals... was to bring people past The Jungle into the later work... I was thrilled to learn about these works from the late 1950s, that verge on abstraction called the Bruce paintings.”
  — Beverly Adams, (05:37)

5. Material and Method: The Significance of Paper

• Choice of Paper over Canvas (06:11–07:40):

  • Lam frequently painted on plain brown craft paper, originally from necessity during the Spanish Civil War.
  • This resourceful choice became a creative signature, associated with both practical limits and artistic freedom.

  “It starts in Spain. He's trying to paint and make art during the war, and materials are scarce... For him, it becomes this touchstone. He actually falls in love with this material and he goes back to it every time we see this sort of great statement or experimentation.”
  — Beverly Adams, (06:34, 06:54)

6. Spirituality and Afro-Caribbean Roots

• Integration of Spiritual Motifs (07:40–09:26):

  • Lam's art reflects deep spiritual purpose and civic engagement.
  • Especially in his Cuban years, his motifs are drawn from Afro-Caribbean religions and culture, creating immersive, magical worlds that defy pure categorization.

  “Art is not just about art itself. Art is also for a cause... You're going to see a number of motifs that really come directly out of the Cuban religions, the Afro-Caribbean religion, you can even identify.”
  — Christophe Cherix, (08:05)

7. The Evolution to Darker, Theatrical Late Work

• Postwar Influences (09:26–11:36):

  • Lam’s work grew moodier and more theatrical after WWII, partly due to his disillusionment with postwar Europe and the commercialization of African art he observed during his travels.
  • He moved away from colorful, tropical themes to darker, more epic symbolism—to avoid being objectified and to recontextualize diasporic African art.

  “He sees the separation between the cultural production of these people from Africa divorced from its context, its spiritual context... He abandons colorful tropical light and plants and makes these darker, more brooding compositions... there's a kind of epic to them because they're so theatrical.”
  — Beverly Adams, (10:22–10:58)

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On categories and modernism:

  “He didn't fit tidily into any of the categories that the museum was trying to create and maintain at that time.”
  — Beverly Adams, (03:48)

• On Lam’s artistry and mission:

  “The idea that art is not just about art itself. Art is also for a cause.”
  — Christophe Cherix, (08:00)

• On Lam’s material ingenuity:

  “This brown craft paper... for him, it becomes this touchstone. He actually falls in love with this material.”
  — Beverly Adams, (06:53)

• On moving past ‘The Jungle’:

  “One of the goals of the exhibition was to bring people past the jungle into the later work...”
  — Beverly Adams, (05:30)

Notable Timestamps

• 01:23 — Christophe Cherix discusses MoMA’s early relationship with Lam
• 02:49 — Beverly Adams explains the journey of "The Jungle" within MoMA
• 04:20 — Challenges of assembling the exhibit
• 05:23 — Beverly Adams on favorite works and the importance of late pieces
• 06:25 — The choice and symbolism of brown craft paper
• 07:40 — The Afro-Caribbean roots and spirituality in Lam’s art
• 09:37 — Beverly Adams on Lam’s reaction to postwar Europe and the evolution of his style

Tone and Takeaway

The tone is thoughtful, reverent, and enthusiastic—a celebration of both Lam’s legacy and the curators’ dedication. The discussion illuminates Lam’s cross-cultural, transcendent artistry, the layered narratives of his work, and the ongoing relevance of his vision amid the complexities of modernism, identity, and diaspora. The curators offer both expertise and personal passion, encouraging listeners to experience the exhibition for themselves.

Recommendation:
If you are interested in art at the intersections of culture, identity, and spirituality—or in the international evolution of modernism—see the show before April 11th. It's a rare opportunity to encounter both canonical and rarely viewed works spanning Lam’s remarkable, globe-spanning career.