MoMA's Wifredo Lam Exhibit Closing Soon

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: All Of It with Alison Stewart
Episode: MoMA's Wifredo Lam Exhibit Closing Soon
Date: April 3, 2026
Guests: Christophe Cherix and Beverly Adams (Co-curators of the exhibition)

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Episode Overview

This episode spotlights the soon-to-close MoMA exhibition "Wifredo Lam: When I Don't Sleep, I Dream." Alison Stewart interviews co-curators Christophe Cherix and Beverly Adams, exploring Lam’s career trajectory, his relationship with MoMA, the cultural and spiritual fabric of his art, and the significance—and challenges—of mounting this comprehensive retrospective. The conversation delves into Lam’s unique artistic journey, the significance of key works like "The Jungle," and the complex influences shaping his later art.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Wifredo Lam’s Relationship with MoMA

• Early Connection (01:23–02:43):

  • The museum’s relationship with Lam dates to 1939, just ten years after its founding.
  • MoMA’s first director, Alfred Barr, visited Lam’s first Paris exhibition (at Galerie Pierre, under Picasso’s guidance) and acquired "Mother and Child" on the spot.
  • Barr continued supporting Lam, later acquiring works in Havana, showing the museum’s commitment to an international vision and emerging artists.

  “It started in 1939, so only 10 years after the very founding of the Museum of Modern Art... Barr acquired a work on the spot, Mother and Child, a beautiful work from the late 30s made the same year, which now hangs in the exhibition.”
  — Christophe Cherix, (01:29)

  • Within six years, MoMA had acquired three key Lam works.

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2. The Journey and Display History of "The Jungle"

• Placement & Narrative (02:43–03:59):

  • "The Jungle" once hung in the MoMA lobby, not the galleries.
  • It was initially presented as contemporary art but later shifted outside the central narrative of modernism MoMA promoted.
  • Lam, as a transnational and multicultural artist, didn’t fit neatly into established categories, leading the museum to struggle with how to present his work.

  “He was a transnational artist, he was from Cuba, he was black, he was Chinese. He made this amazing picture... but he didn't fit tidily into any of the categories that the museum was trying to create and maintain at that time.”
  — Beverly Adams, (03:27)

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3. Assembling the Exhibit: Scarcity, Scale, and Global Reach

• Collecting the Works (04:20–05:15):

  • The exhibit brings together art from 59 lenders (39 private, 20 institutional).
  • The largest and most fragile work had not been exhibited since the 1950s due to its size (almost 15 feet) and delicacy.
  • This major piece was a special priority for inclusion in the MoMA show.

  “Maybe the most challenging of all, was his largest ever made work, almost 15 foot long, almost mural size... it had not been exhibited since the mid-50s.”
  — Christophe Cherix, (04:36)

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4. Discovering and Showcasing Lam’s Later Work

• Beyond "The Jungle" (05:23–06:11):

  • The curators emphasize moving visitors past Lam’s famous works to discover his prolific late period, including rarely seen "Bruce" paintings from the 1950s shown in New York for the first time.

  “One of the goals... was to bring people past The Jungle into the later work... I was thrilled to learn about these works from the late 1950s, that verge on abstraction called the Bruce paintings.”
  — Beverly Adams, (05:37)

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5. Material and Method: The Significance of Paper

• Choice of Paper over Canvas (06:11–07:40):

  • Lam frequently painted on plain brown craft paper, originally from necessity during the Spanish Civil War.
  • This resourceful choice became a creative signature, associated with both practical limits and artistic freedom.

  “It starts in Spain. He's trying to paint and make art during the war, and materials are scarce... For him, it becomes this touchstone. He actually falls in love with this material and he goes back to it every time we see this sort of great statement or experimentation.”
  — Beverly Adams, (06:34, 06:54)

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6. Spirituality and Afro-Caribbean Roots

• Integration of Spiritual Motifs (07:40–09:26):

  • Lam's art reflects deep spiritual purpose and civic engagement.
  • Especially in his Cuban years, his motifs are drawn from Afro-Caribbean religions and culture, creating immersive, magical worlds that defy pure categorization.

  “Art is not just about art itself. Art is also for a cause... You're going to see a number of motifs that really come directly out of the Cuban religions, the Afro-Caribbean religion, you can even identify.”
  — Christophe Cherix, (08:05)

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7. The Evolution to Darker, Theatrical Late Work

• Postwar Influences (09:26–11:36):

  • Lam’s work grew moodier and more theatrical after WWII, partly due to his disillusionment with postwar Europe and the commercialization of African art he observed during his travels.
  • He moved away from colorful, tropical themes to darker, more epic symbolism—to avoid being objectified and to recontextualize diasporic African art.

  “He sees the separation between the cultural production of these people from Africa divorced from its context, its spiritual context... He abandons colorful tropical light and plants and makes these darker, more brooding compositions... there's a kind of epic to them because they're so theatrical.”
  — Beverly Adams, (10:22–10:58)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On categories and modernism:

  “He didn't fit tidily into any of the categories that the museum was trying to create and maintain at that time.”
  — Beverly Adams, (03:48)

• On Lam’s artistry and mission:

  “The idea that art is not just about art itself. Art is also for a cause.”
  — Christophe Cherix, (08:00)

• On Lam’s material ingenuity:

  “This brown craft paper... for him, it becomes this touchstone. He actually falls in love with this material.”
  — Beverly Adams, (06:53)

• On moving past ‘The Jungle’:

  “One of the goals of the exhibition was to bring people past the jungle into the later work...”
  — Beverly Adams, (05:30)

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Notable Timestamps

• 01:23 — Christophe Cherix discusses MoMA’s early relationship with Lam
• 02:49 — Beverly Adams explains the journey of "The Jungle" within MoMA
• 04:20 — Challenges of assembling the exhibit
• 05:23 — Beverly Adams on favorite works and the importance of late pieces
• 06:25 — The choice and symbolism of brown craft paper
• 07:40 — The Afro-Caribbean roots and spirituality in Lam’s art
• 09:37 — Beverly Adams on Lam’s reaction to postwar Europe and the evolution of his style

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Tone and Takeaway

The tone is thoughtful, reverent, and enthusiastic—a celebration of both Lam’s legacy and the curators’ dedication. The discussion illuminates Lam’s cross-cultural, transcendent artistry, the layered narratives of his work, and the ongoing relevance of his vision amid the complexities of modernism, identity, and diaspora. The curators offer both expertise and personal passion, encouraging listeners to experience the exhibition for themselves.

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Recommendation:
If you are interested in art at the intersections of culture, identity, and spirituality—or in the international evolution of modernism—see the show before April 11th. It's a rare opportunity to encounter both canonical and rarely viewed works spanning Lam’s remarkable, globe-spanning career.

Transcript

[A]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Thank you for sharing part of your day with us. Spring has sprung and if you're looking for ways to break your winter hibernation, we wanted to let you know that it's your last chance to catch one of our favorite art exhibits at moma. It's called Wifredo. When I Don't Sleep, I Dream. The exhibit tracks Lamb's career from his early training in Madrid and his involvement in the Spanish Civil War to his time in Paris with artists like Picasso, to his creative, fruitful return to Cuba. With a semi surrealist, semi cubist, semi abstract style, Lamb used his work to depict traditional Afro Caribbean life and spirituality. His work is often colorful and dense and full of interesting faces, creatures and plants. His artistic practice used his European training to remain grounded in the African diaspora. You can see this work by heading to MOMA between now and April 11th. Wilfredo Lamb, when I Don't Sleep I Dream first opened back in November. We had co curators Christophe Chariks and Beverly Adams on to talk about it. And I started by asking Christophe about the pre existing relationship between the artist and the museum.

[B]

It started very early. It started in 1939, so only 10 years after the very founding of the Museum of Modern Art when its first director, Alfred Barr visited a show. The first exhibition Wilfred Lamb had in Paris at a gallery named Galerie Pierre, a very well known place, was also Miro's gallery and Lamb had his show under the advice of Pablo Picasso. We had met not long ago and what's exceptional is that Alfred Barr acquired a work on the spot, Mother and Child, a beautiful work from the late 30s made the same year, which now hangs in the exhibition. But it didn't stop there. So there was a commitment for emerging artists, but there was also an international vision. And three years later, Alfred Baur goes to Cuba, visits Lamb in his studio in Havana and acquire a second work, the Beautiful Satan, another large gouache. And three years later, in 1945, James Sweeney acquired for the Museum of Modern Art a John Goddard Pierre Matisse gallery. So in three years, in six years, the museum acquired three key works by Nam Beverly.

[A]

For many years, the jungle hung in the lobby of MoMA, not within the galleries. Would you explain why?

[C]

Well, when it was first exhibited, actually it did hang in the galleries. It was considered contemporary art and it hung alongside other contemporary artists in this big reinstallation of the museum's galleries. But very soon after that, it kind of fell out of the major narrative. That MAMU was trying to put forth on modern art. And it would show up in exhibitions or galleries of Latin American art or paintings that were large scale or like other kinds of thematic things. But most of the time it greeted people at the very the entryway of the museum. So I think it was because as the narrative of modernism at the institution became narrower and more of a straight line, an arrow through history, they didn't know what to do with this artist. He was a transnational artist, he was from Cuba, he was black, he was Chinese. He made this amazing picture which they recognize as important, important enough to hang and not keep in storage. But he didn't fit tidily into any of the categories that the museum was trying to create and maintain at that time.

[A]

And I have to say, this exhibition is beautiful. It's huge, for sure. Thank you. So I tell people, set aside time to go see it. But I understand, Christophe, it's that some of these works were challenging for the Museum of Modern Art to get to bring to New York. What was the most challenging piece for you to acquire?

[B]

So I think one of the complexity of the project that Lamme's work is very much scattered all around the world. So it's an exhibition that bring together 59 lenders, 39 private collectors, 20 institutions. And we really, Beverly and I, wanted to go back to drawing board, just try to really look at everything we could put our sight on and really pick what we felt was the most decisive picture. And one of them, maybe the most challenging of all, was his largest ever made work, almost 15 foot long, almost mural size, and on paper, mounted on canvas, making it very fragile. And that work was so large, so fragile, that it had not been exhibited since the mid-50s. So it became for us, absolutely a priority to bring it back and to show it for the first time in New York.

[A]

Do you have a favorite image, Beverly? You said the most difficult one perhaps to bring.

[C]

You know, it's really hard. It's like choosing your favorite child. Because we worked so long and so hard on this exhibition, and one of the goals of the exhibition was to bring people past the jungle into the later work. And for me, that's been really important. The way the installation is, is that you get to the jungle almost right away. You enter the museum, you look one way, you see the Civil War, you look another way, you see the jungle. And we really wanted people to understand how full and complex and gorgeous his career was and what an amazing art maker he was. So I'd have to say I can't narrow it down to one, but I was thrilled to learn about these works from the late 1950s, that verge on abstraction called the Bruce paintings. I had not seen those in person before, and it's their first time in New York. So I hope people will be as surprised and excited about them as I was when I first saw them.

[A]

We have to talk about the jungle. This was wild. This is not painted on canvas. That kind of blew my mind. Why did he paint this on paper?

[C]

Well, his use of paper, and it's just plain brown wrapping paper known as craft paper.

[A]

It was amazing.

[C]

Well, it starts in Spain. He's trying to paint and make art during the war, and materials are scarce. And what can he get his hands on? He can get his hands on paper and he's making his own gouaches. He's like catch as catch can, trying to make art, but he doesn't have the money or the availability of materials. And when he paints Spanish Civil War, this great picture in 1937, he does it. He gets to scale by piecing two large pieces of this brown paper together. And then when he goes back to Cuba, when he wants to paint a statement, painting a big picture, he still doesn't have any canvas. And so he goes back to this wrapping paper paper, not some very fancy, like artist paper, but this brown craft paper. And for him, it becomes this touchstone. He actually falls in love with this material and he goes back to it every time we see this sort of great statement or experimentation, grand composition. His largest picture that Christophe was talking about earlier is also on this paper, as are the Bruce pictures. So it really becomes something, a kind of freedom for him to work on this, on this material, with this material.

[A]

Those are the practical aspects. I can afford this material. I can afford to use it. Let's talk about his spirituality a little bit. Christophe, how does spiritual influences. How do we see it in his art?

[B]

I think we see it. I think first there's a sense of, again, a sense of purpose, a sense of civic engagement. The idea that art is not just about art itself. Art is also for a cause. And how he's going to bring together very, very powerful motif that talk about that, about the mission of art, to transcend art itself and to be about our contemporary lives. And you'll see in his work, particularly in Cuba, a number of motifs that really come directly out of the Cuban religions, the Afro, Caribbean religion, you can even identify. And he's going to play with those motifs, integrate them within his own vocabulary. So creating a world that's both immersive, magical, but also deeply, deeply connected to a sense of faith. And you see also that earlier in Spain is attracted by the way we can use very powerful motifs that allow to bring people into a new world. And the jungle is very much about that. It's sugar cane. And between the sugar canes you'll see those extreme. You don't know if they're friendly or they could be a bit hostile. And you have to catch them to find them, the creatures of the night sometimes. And they bring the viewer into a place that is completely unexpected.

[A]

You mentioned the latter work, which seems a little spookier than his previous work. What was going on in his life when he was creating the work in his later years?

[C]

I think the big break actually comes in 1946. He's spent the war in Cuba. He's been showing the whole time in New York City. And when he's finally able to travel again, he goes first to New York, then shows in London some works that he had done while he was in Haiti, where he had exhibited, and then goes back to Paris and post war Europe really kind of, for lack of a better word, freaks him out. He sees the devastation. He's just like, oh my God, I can't believe this. And he thought, well, maybe he would go back and continue his career that he had left in Paris in 1940. And he's not happy. Another thing he sees there, which impacts him, I think greatly, is he sees his friend Aime Cesaire, who he had met in Martinique on his way back to Cuba. But he also sees African art being sold like baubles in the street, you know, and he sees the separation between the cultural production of these people from Africa divorced from its context, its spiritual context, its day to day context, its life and meaning. And that really impacts him a lot. So when he returns to Cuba after this trip, he has a lot to digest. But one of the things that he states in some very powerful letters that he writes is that he doesn't want to be objectified like that. And he wants to sort of find a way to recontextualize African art of the diaspora in a new kind of way. So he abandons colorful tropical light and plants and makes these darker, more brooding compositions. But they are very theatrical and very stately and sort of, I don't know, there's a kind of epic to them because they're so theatrical that I think is motivated by this trip back to Europe in 1946.

[A]

That was my conversation with co curators Christophe Scherex and Beverly Adams. The show is called Wifredo Lamb. When I Don't Sleep, I Dream, and you can catch it at MoMA through April 11th. Coming up, comedian Jeff Ross talks about his Broadway debut, a one man show called Take a Banana for the Ride, which was recently added to Netflix. That's coming up. This is all of it.

[C]

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[A]

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