All Of It – "Monet's Eye for Venice at the Brooklyn Museum"

Date: October 10, 2025
Host: Alison Stewart (with co-host/interviewer Jordan Loft)
Guest: Lisa Small, Curator, Brooklyn Museum

Overview

In this episode, host Alison Stewart and co-host Jordan Loft delve into the Brooklyn Museum’s new exhibition "Monet and Venice," featuring 19 rarely exhibited works painted by Claude Monet during his only visit to Venice in 1908. Lisa Small, curator of European art at the museum, discusses Monet’s late-life turn to the Venetian landscape, exploring how the city’s architecture, water, and light rekindled Monet’s creative spark after a period of doubt and frustration. The conversation covers the backstory of Monet’s visit, his distinctive process, the exhibition’s immersive design, and the emotional resonance of these twilight masterpieces.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Monet’s Turning Point: From Water Lilies to Venice

[00:09–02:57]

• Late-Career Crisis:
  Monet, at age 68, was frustrated with his "endless water lilies" and received a negative review from an art dealer about his recent work.
  • Lisa Small: "He destroyed some of them. He was sort of at an impasse." [01:54]
• How the Trip Happened:
  His wife, Alice, after a friend’s invitation to stay at a prominent Venetian palazzo, persuaded Monet to travel, seeking restoration and escape.
  • Lisa Small: "Alice said, we're gonna go. You have to get out of the garden. We're gonna go have this restorative trip to Venice." [02:33]
• Venice’s Allure:
  Initially, Monet and Alice did classic tourist activities—gondola rides, church visits, and studying Titian and Tintoretto.

2. Monet’s Working Method in Venice

[03:07–07:43]

• Tourism to Routine:
  After a week of sightseeing, Monet established a strict daily painting routine, having shipped his supplies in advance.
• Painting on Gondolas:
  Monet was well-versed in painting from boats, having built a “studio boat” in the 1870s to capture river scenes in France. In Venice, he adapted this skill by painting from gondolas—with Alice by his side, often enduring cold, damp weather.
  • Lisa Small: "She recounted one wonderful anecdote... Monet was extremely upset because the gondoliers that he hired every day... couldn’t find the same place every day... He just returned to the hotel in high dudgeon because it was not going well." [06:46]
• Insight from Film Footage (From Later Years):
  A 1915 video shows Monet painted late in life—bearded, cigarette dangling—completely absorbed in his work.
  • Lisa Small: "That’s my favorite part about that clip—that the ash gets longer and longer and you know it’s going to fall into his palette." [04:25]
  • Lisa Small: "What you’re seeing is an artist in full command of his talent... really in the place he loves best." [04:38]

3. Venice and Monet’s Signature Motifs

[04:58–06:00]

• Water As Motif:
  The city of water was a perfect match for Monet’s lifelong obsession—reflections, atmosphere, and the mingling of water and stone.
  • Lisa Small: "It's kind of funny to think that he never had gone to Venice, a place that is literally defined by the juxtaposition of stone and water and the reflections." [05:18]

4. Exhibition Design: Immersive but Not Immersive

[07:43–10:16]

• Introductory Experience:
  Visitors start in a gallery surrounded by video screens and a soundscape immersing them in Venice, before entering the main painting galleries.
  • Lisa Small: "We really wanted to set a moment where, between the beautiful footage and the soundscape, we could evoke the feeling of being in that magical place." [08:17]
  • She is careful to distinguish this from trendy “immersive experiences”: "It was not about that, it was about Venice because we have the paintings in the very next room, so there is no reason to blow them up." [09:02]
• Lighting Choices:
  The exhibition uses low, “atmospheric” lighting to highlight the paintings’ luminescence and protect works on paper.
  • Lisa Small: "We did want to create a kind of, for lack of a better word, an atmospheric effect... it was as though it was a room full of windows and you were just looking out on these glowing scenes..." [09:37-09:57]

5. Artistic Choices: De-populated Canvases, Distinctive Color

[10:16–11:54]

• No People in the Paintings:
  Monet, by late career, had all but abandoned including human figures, focusing instead on “the envelope” or the atmospheric quality between the painter and subject.
  • Lisa Small: "He had become more and more just obsessed with what he called the envelope—the colored air and atmosphere that was between him and the motif." [10:33]
  • Monet even avoided busy Venice locales to keep people out of his compositions.
• Atmospheric Color Palette:
  Monet’s Venetian scenes are suffused with pinks, greens, yellows—echoing the city’s unique fall light and mist.
  • Lisa Small: "I think he was trying to... evoke that magic mood of Venice, and the pinks and the blues really lent themselves to it." [11:40]

6. Signature Works: The Palazzo Ducale Series

[12:06–13:51]

• Brooklyn’s Star Painting:
  The museum owns a key painting of the Palazzo Ducale, in its collection since 1920—a bold acquisition at the time.
  • Lisa Small: "It would have been considered a rather daring acquisition because it was still very radical modern art at that time." [12:32]
• Multiple Versions:
  Monet painted the Palazzo Ducale three times, though only one resides in Brooklyn’s collection.
  • Lisa Small: "One of the disappointments was we were not able to secure the loan of either one of the other two versions... but the views... we have about four of them in the exhibition." [13:04–13:17]
• Seeing Subtle Shifts:
  Comparing similar canvases, viewers can notice slight changes in color, gondola placement, and overall feeling—a “cinematic” experience.

7. Curator’s Research Pilgrimage

[13:51–15:07]

• Following in Monet’s Footsteps:
  The curators visited Venice, accessing private and historic sites to match Monet’s exact perspectives.
  • Lisa Small: "It just gives you chills, like, to look out and see the exact view that he saw." [15:01]

8. The Musical Mural: "Souvenir de Venice d’Après Monet"

[15:07–17:31]

• Music as Emotional Echo:
  The exhibition features an original symphony by composer-in-residence Niles Luther, inspired by Monet and Alice’s love story and their collaboration in Venice.
  • Lisa Small: "He wrote this extraordinary symphony called Souvenir de Venice d'Après Monet – Souvenirs of Venice after Monet... And we have it playing in the final gallery surrounded by about 14 of the Venice pictures. And it just adds such a rich emotional layer." [15:51]
  • "People go in that room and start tearing up. I've seen it happen multiple times." [16:17]
• Artwork & Music Interplay:
  Lisa Small reflects on how music can alter how viewers experience visual art and vice versa.

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• Lisa Small on Monet and Venice:
  "He was a painter of water all of his career—of water, of reflections." [05:10]
• On viewing Monet paint (via film):
  "That’s my favorite part about that clip—that the ash gets longer and longer and you know it’s going to fall into his palette." [04:25]
• Lisa Small's curator quest:
  "We spent a lot of time... was he here? Was he perhaps on the veranda below? It just gives you chills, like, to look out and see the exact view that he saw." [14:49–15:01]
• On exhibition design:
  "It was not about [trendy immersion], it was about Venice because we have the paintings in the very next room, so there is no reason to blow them up." [09:02]
• On music in the gallery:
  "People go in that room and start tearing up. I've seen it happen multiple times, even in the few days of the press preview." [16:17]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:09] – Introduction to Monet’s Venice period; show context
• [01:14] – Monet’s year and state of mind before Venice
• [02:57] – Life in Venice; Alice’s crucial role
• [04:14] – Footage of Monet painting; his process
• [05:08] – Monet’s relationship with water & Venetian inspiration
• [06:00] – Gondola painting logistics; Alice as companion
• [07:43] – Why the exhibition opens with Venice video immersion
• [09:32] – Atmospheric lighting choices
• [10:16] – Why Monet eliminated people from his Venice paintings
• [11:29] – On Monet’s Venetian colors
• [12:06] – The Brooklyn Museum’s own Palazzo Ducale painting
• [13:51] – Attempting to trace Monet’s views on-site in Venice
• [15:20] – The role of music in the exhibition
• [17:11] – Sample of Niles Luther’s symphony (show closes)

Conclusion

This episode offers an engaging primer on "Monet and Venice," immersing listeners in Monet’s transformative journey and the thoughtful design of the Brooklyn Museum’s exhibition. Lisa Small balances scholarship, anecdotes, and emotion, providing listeners with a vivid sense of Monet’s Venetian achievement, the exhibition’s atmosphere, and the enduring power of art and memory. The episode is both an invitation to see the show and a tribute to the creative legacy of Monet’s final years.