B (3:38)

BL what inspired you to create this record label?

D (3:41)

Freer? Well, I actually didn't create it. A gentleman by the name of Fury Young is the founder. Fury Young is an artist and he is the co executive director with me, Freer. But he reached out to me in 20, either late 2014 or early 2015, he was working on this album about mass incarceration through the black experience. It was called Die Jim Crow. And I was serving my 10th year of incarceration at the time. And he. It was a full spreadsheet about this genreless album, conceptual that walks you through all the way from the minstrel era where the term Jim Crow was coined in the song, all the way up through present day, we're on drugs, you know, blah, blah, blah. And it was all like laid out like, oh, this song is pre prison and the character goes through this and the genre is rock or whatever. And he saw my work on YouTube as a my band, and that's what made him reach out to me. I wrote songs for him for his album. He sent those songs to a prison in Ohio. And that band put music to my words, that incarcerated band. And from there I had wounded up getting released. And me and him began, you know, working together on this album that he wanted to create. And through that, it morphed, that idea morphed into a nonprofit record label, which was DJUM Crow Records at the time. And I was just there, you know, founding board member, deputy director. You know, I was there the whole time. And when he actually started, when we became a nonprofit record label, he was like, I'm thinking about making you co founder. You were. You were here. And I was like, bro, it was your idea. It was literally your idea. I'm not the founder, you know, but.

B (5:23)

But what do you think is important? The record label. What do you want people to know about the record label?

D (5:29)

I think that it is important that people just understand. First of all, I think music in America is one of the most easy ways to get to people's hearts, you know, even in reverse. I mean, we can't get rid of horrible people because we love their music half the time. So I think music is the easiest way. And I also think that it just shows people, just normal people, humans, that's what's behind the wall. I think mass incarceration has been successful because of the censorship and the silencing. When you don't see or hear people, you're not thinking about them in everyday life. And that's kind of how that became such a big business. I think that the label just shows these people in their regular, you know, creative ingenuity. Ingenuity. They're really awesome people, and they actually have that normal threat of humanity that we all have, and that's important.

B (6:15)

Maurice, when did it become clear to you there was an avenue for writing about arts and incarceration together?

C (6:22)

I'd been trying to do it for a very long time and had, you know, over the years found, you know, individual, let's say, painters or playwrights or poets who I had written articles about almost as a kind of a palate cleanser from the sort of standard work of the Marshall Project, which is often more investigative and often about sort of bad things, so to speak, going on in prisons, as opposed to these sort of. Sort of more hopeful stories of art creation. But I think what really clicked for me was understanding the historical sweep of what's happening. So it. At one time, I think I viewed music from prisons in the 70s and 80s, and even earlier than that, the 1950s, as just like a curiosity from the past. Like, oh, here's a fun, quirky thing. Oh, I. You know, everybody knows that Johnny Cash may be played in a prison, and here's just kind of an extension of that. But I realized later that when it comes to the criminal justice system today, there's a. We're sort of stuck in how to think about how to make it better, by which I mean there are really good ideas floating around for how to make prisons more humane and rehabilitative. We've seen a whole kind of movement of criminal justice reform over the last 10 years. Even President Donald Trump signed the First Step act about a decade ago. And so it's like we have the tools, but we're stuck somehow. We're sort of trapped and continually seeing people who commit crimes as kind of, you know, people who are not worth any sort of redemption. And it was in music, both the Freer Records releases that BL is behind, but then at a sort of larger scale in the 70s and 80s, where I saw, oh, here is an era where we were willing to see prisons as more porous, to see people who are in prison as people who made mistakes, maybe even did really terrible things. But most of the time are going to come out and what can we do to help them through whatever issues led them to this law breaking? And what can we do to sort of welcome them back, to sort of help their path? You know, today, part of the problem with people leaving prison is that everyone else refuses to give them jobs or rent houses and apartments to them. And you hear in this music a sense that these are just human beings who are, who've gone away for a little while to this one environment where they're gonna hopefully work through some stuff and then they're gonna come back. That was sort of the model that we at our most hopeful as a society have, have kind of imagined. But we've always fallen short. And to me, the music is just kind of an amazing symbol of what it sounds like when we all reach towards a more just and humane and redemptive system.

B (9:04)

I'm speaking to Marshall Project staff writer Morris Shama. He's the author of the newsletter Redemption the Music of Mass Incarceration. We're also joined by BL Cherelle, co executive director of the Freer Records, a label that releases music by prison impacted musicians. After the break, we'll hear some music. This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. My guests are Morris Shema. He's the author of the newsletter Redemption the Music of Mass Incarceration. And we're also joined by Biel Cherelle, co executive director of Freer Records, a label that releases music by prison impacted musicians. As promised, we're going to hear some music. BL we're going to start out with a Freer Records release by a musician named Zealot. The song is called America the Merciful. Why did you want us to play this track?

D (10:00)

Well, for one, he was just recently released after serving 18 years. We recorded him and released his band's album Territorial in 2021 called Slashy Wiki. His voice is phenomenal. His words are so poignant. Y', all, y', all, y' all don't know why. As soon as y' all listen to the song.

B (10:17)

Well, let's hear it.

E (10:31)

All my crimes beyond forgiveness. Have I lost my place with you. All the silence all I get.

B (11:14)

That's called America the Merciful by Zealot Morris. In the first installment of your newsletter, it's about a group called the. Is it the Wynn Unit Band?

C (11:24)

Yeah, the Wynn Unit Band.

B (11:25)

Okay. Who were they?

C (11:27)

The Wynn Unit Band were one of many bands that formed in Texas prisons in the 70s and 80s, when there robust, rehabilitative music program, basically, in Texas prisons. And at that time, there was a rodeo that was held at a Texas prison in Huntsville, and tens of thousands of free world people would descend once a year on this prison. And there was something uncomfortable, I think, when you read this history about the kind of gladiatorial coliseum, you know, let's watch incarcerated people get, you know, potentially mauled by bulls. So the context here is somewhat sort of dark, and you have to kind of take that context in with it. But then also, there were prison bands that were allowed to perform for these massive crowds. And in fact, they would sometimes bring really famous artists to come play at this prison rodeo. So Dolly Parton, Willie Nelson, George Strait, even Johnny Cash, well before his kind of more famous prison shows that were recorded years later, all of these artists were performing at this arena in Huntsville, Texas, with effectively prison bands opening for them. And then the. The men inside would sell vinyl records that they themselves had produced and recorded to people who came to the rodeo. So the Texas Department of Corrections, as it was known at the time, was effectively like a miniature record label putting this music out. And the music is just very, very good. I found one of these records on ebay. And then over the course of years, I looked for other records and eventually found a place called the Texas Prison Museum in Huntsville, which let me kind of go into this archive in a back room and digitize this music by plugging a turntable into a computer effectively. And the Marshall Project has now put this music online, much of it for the first time.

B (13:24)

Well, let's hear the Wynn Unit Band with Come home.

E (13:28)

Woke up this morning and I felt so good I thought it was a beautiful day but on the pillow was a nose where my baby used to lay Is that I still love you, baby still love you and you know my love is true But I'm sick and tired so sick and tired of all the crazy things you do

F (14:15)

when

E (14:15)

you need me enough to stop all that childish stuff I'll come home I'll come back Home.

B (14:25)

That's the WI Unit band. Next up, we have Black Barbie by B. Alexis B.L. could you tell us about Black Barbie?

D (14:33)

Yes. Be Alexis. She's the first woman to ever release an album from prison in history. Little Kim released hers while she was incarcerated, but it wasn't recorded in prison. Be Alexis is the first. This is a history. It just came out February 27th. Black Barbie is an incredible song off her album. I encourage everyone who really are true, true hip hop fans that like real music to check her out. She's incredible.

B (14:57)

That's not her real name, though. Be Alexis.

D (14:59)

Right. That's not her real name, though.

B (15:01)

Why, why couldn't she use her real name?

D (15:04)

So great question. She actually faces a lot of heavy censorship in the state that she's from. So much so that, you know, we have kept her identity confidential because the state that she's in is not. They are not open to her being seen or heard, evidently.

B (15:24)

Maurice, why did you want to include this in your newsletter? Be Alexis. Black Barbie.

C (15:29)

Well, I wanted it to be the first issue of the newsletter and really a kind of standard bearer for this larger project because first of all, the music is extraordinary to my ears. I think it's really like just an incredible record. And as Biel said, it is history making in that she's the first woman to put out a hip hop record from prison. But I also think that the context for not using her real name and trying to protect her from retaliation is really just good way of encapsulating the struggle that all of this music often is up against. Of course, there have been times like the music from the 70s we just heard, where it was promoted by the prisons, but very often that is not the case. There's just all these examples of rappers, you know, finding their way to, you know, do it over the prison phones or even to use illegal cell phones to put out their. Their creative work. And a lot of them face tremendous suffering as a result of it because of the restrictions that still exist in these places. So to me, the whole nature of this project is this is people kind of finding the light in these dark environments. And the idea that you would hear Be Alexis bear her soul, but that also to protect her, we can't tell you her name. To me, that contrast really just encapsulates the larger problem of mass incarceration and how we, we, we, we try to put up this boundary between us and these people.

B (16:53)

Let's hear B. Alexis and Black Barbie.

G (17:07)

Black Barbie I see you in disguise I see the hurt and Pain you tried to hide behind your eyes Black Barbie Blending in among the faith Acting like everything is all good but it ain't Black Barbie, you at your all time high and though your eyes dry I can tell you gonna cry Black Barbie it's okay, baby let it out don't be ashamed we all gotta cry sometime.

B (17:41)

Bl if someone wants to ensure that incarcerated people have access to music and art and other resources, where would you point them?

D (17:49)

Wow. Someone on the outside, a free person. Yeah, I would direct them to me. I'm working really hard to be free of records is when you think of prison music in today's landscape, you think of us. And I think we've done a great job of releasing amazing bodies of work. So I will point them to me. Aside from that, though, there's tons of great organizations who do do great work with music, with therapy and healing and, you know, cognitive thinking. There's a lot of organizations that does. You can volunteer. If you wanted to go in yourself in your local county jail or state prison and you're a musician, you can go in and volunteer yourself and teach people. I think prison is so interesting because it's the only place you have to be creative and ingenuitive in everything you do. You want to eat good, you got to think out the box. You want to look good, you got to throw some coffee and creamer on your little sm. And I mean, it's incredible the amount of creativity. So a lot of times people go in thinking, oh, I'm about to teach them something, and they walk out, in fact, learning that they learned a whole lot from those people.

B (18:54)

Maurice, if people want to subscribe to your newsletter, where should they go?

C (18:58)

They should go to themarshallproject.org we will have a new issue every week, some of it new releases, like for your records, some of it historical. And you can sign up and get an email every week with one song from this project.

B (19:11)

I've been speaking with Marshall Project staff writer Maurice Shama, the author of the newsletter Redemption, the Music of Mass Incarceration, as well as Biel Charill, co executive director of Freer Records. Thank you so much for joining us and sharing this music with us.

D (19:27)

Thank you so much. Yep, we're Freer Records on everything bcharrell. Thank y' all for having us. I appreciate it very much.

C (19:33)

Yeah, thanks so much.

F (19:35)

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A (20:05)

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