Podcast Summary: "Music in the Halls of Congress"

Podcast: All of It with Alison Stewart (WNYC)
Date: April 8, 2026
Guest: Professor Anna Harwell Chilenza (Johns Hopkins University), author of On the Record: Music that Changed America

Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, Alison Stewart talks with Professor Anna Harwell Chilenza about her new book, On the Record: Music that Changed America. The conversation explores the political power of American songs—from "The Star-Spangled Banner" to "Strange Fruit" to "Hamilton"—and examines how music has entered the halls of Congress, influenced legislation, and shaped the country's social and political narrative. The episode also features listener call-ins about their favorite political songs.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Star-Spangled Banner and National Anthem Debates

[01:09 – 04:32]

• Delayed Adoption as Anthem:
  “Let’s start where the book begins, with the Star Spangled Banner, which was not the official anthem of the United States till 1931.” (Alison Stewart, 01:45)
  Chilenza explains that it took over a century for "The Star-Spangled Banner" to become the official anthem. Other contenders included "Hail Columbia" and "Yankee Doodle Dandy," but a push from Maryland congressmen ultimately secured "The Star-Spangled Banner"’s status.

• Context of Adoption:
  The Great Depression and national division prompted legislators to seek national unity, leading to the anthem's adoption.

  “It really was the Great Depression and the stock market fall in 1929 ... politicians were trying to ... bring people together.” (Anna Harwell Chilenza, 03:09)

• Francis Scott Key’s Complex Legacy:
  Key was a slave owner and prosecutor, involved in significant Supreme Court cases. His complicated stance on race and free speech, particularly in the case of United States vs. Reuben Crandall, is highlighted.

  “He was kind of hypocritical.” (Anna Harwell Chilenza, 03:59)

• Civil War Irony:
  The song was embraced in the North but rejected in the South during the Civil War due to its association with the Union flag, despite Key's family sympathizing with the South.

  “Go figure.” (Anna Harwell Chilenza, 04:32)

"Lift Every Voice and Sing" and the Role of Copyright

[05:13 – 06:38]

• Chilenza discusses the "Black National Anthem" as a meaningful alternative and explains why it did not achieve wider adoption. The publisher's control and high copyright fees limited its spread and influence nationally, introducing the concept of the music industry as a powerful, sometimes constraining, force in musical history.

  “A third character in this book is the music industry ... had a huge impact on the pieces that can have an impact in those that can’t.” (Anna Harwell Chilenza, 06:16)

Rhapsody in Blue, Intellectual Property, and Defining American Music

[07:33 – 09:37]

• Rhapsody in Blue’s Significance:
  Gershwin’s composition helped Congress focus on intellectual property and what can be considered "American sound." This led to debates about cultural identity and the protection of artistic works.

  “We’ve found the American sound to sort of counteract European culture. And then we start to get these debates on, well, how do you protect that American sound?” (Anna Harwell Chilenza, 07:54)

• Duke Ellington’s Response:
  Ellington’s collaborative and competitive musical dialogue with Gershwin asserted that there’s no single American sound and emphasized jazz’s role in American culture.

  “The power of Duke Ellington’s music was to say there is not one American sound.” (Anna Harwell Chilenza, 08:32)

Jazz as Diplomacy: The State Department's "Secret Sonic Weapon"

[10:20 – 11:53]

• Jazz and the Cold War:
  During the civil rights era, U.S. cultural diplomats used jazz—and musicians like Dizzy Gillespie—as international tools to combat Soviet criticism about racism in America.

  “We can present jazz as a symbol of democracy. It’s equality. Everyone gets to play a solo. But there’s sort of rules that we agree to follow in creating this piece. And it was a incredibly powerful tool.” (Anna Harwell Chilenza, 11:32)

"Strange Fruit" and the Fight Against Lynching

[11:53 – 16:12]

• Origins and Impact:
  The anti-lynching anthem was written by Abel Meeropol, a Jewish schoolteacher and Communist Party member, and famously recorded by Billie Holiday. Its haunting commentary on lynching became a mobilizing force in civil rights efforts.

  “And then he met another Communist friend, Josephson ... and it was the first racially integrated club in New York City. Billie Holiday was the house singer. And the idea was hatched, what if we got her to sing the song?” (Anna Harwell Chilenza, 13:54)

• Strange Fruit in Congress:
  Lyrics were distributed to every U.S. senator in a push for anti-lynching legislation.

  “At this point in history, lynching was not a federal crime. ... It took until 2022 for us to get an anti-lynching federal law.” (Anna Harwell Chilenza, 15:06)

• Lasting Influence:

  “Just the power that this song from 1939 until 2022, it took a while, but the seeds took root when that legislation was passed.” (Anna Harwell Chilenza, 16:05)

Protest Songs: Power vs. Political Limitations

[16:52 – 18:40]

• Listener Favorites & Protest Song Function:
  Songs like “Ohio” (Neil Young), “Move On Up a Little Higher” (Mahalia Jackson), “Simple Song of Freedom” (Bobby Darin), and “What’s Going On” (Marvin Gaye) are discussed.

• Effects on Policy:
  Protest songs can unify and heighten awareness but rarely influence Congress directly unless proactively brought to lawmakers' attention (e.g., “Strange Fruit”).

  “Congress does not pay a lot of attention to protest songs ... unless they're sort of forced to, like with Strange Fruit.” (Anna Harwell Chilenza, 17:04)

• Musical Power of “What’s Going On”:

  “It is a song that says, despite all these things that are happening, there is hope that it will get better. That music, the music, just the pure music element helps us kind of tap into what’s human.” (Anna Harwell Chilenza, 18:34)

Musical Theater: West Side Story and Hamilton in Policy and Public Imagination

[19:28 – 21:24]

• Why These Musicals Matter:
  "West Side Story" impacted national discussions on juvenile delinquency—JFK's administration is cited as being influenced by it.

  “One of his assistants ... said, West Side Story. So that the way that musical looks at juvenile delinquency, as far as the Jets go, the white gang, it made a lot of people think about sort of how we're treating our youth.” (Anna Harwell Chilenza, 19:57)

• Stereotypes and Missed Opportunities:
  The musical also perpetuated problematic stereotypes about Puerto Ricans and Puerto Rico’s relationship to the U.S.

  “Those negative stereotypes were only reinforced all the more in that musical. Mainly just I think, because it was a quick choice ... They didn’t really do their research.” (Anna Harwell Chilenza, 20:39)

• Hamilton’s Resonance:
  Although only mentioned briefly at the end, "Hamilton" is credited with reframing U.S. history and civic identity through music.

Notable Quotes and Moments

• On the politics behind picking the anthem:

  “With the Star Spangled Banner, the flag is sort of the unifier. And with Hail Columbia, it’s the president…maybe that wouldn’t be good if a single figure, a person, you know, he could become tyrannical if that happened.” (Anna Harwell Chilenza, 02:19)

• On "Lift Every Voice and Sing":

  “What you see is the publisher starts to charge really high fees to reprint or perform that music … the music industry has, ever since the turn of the 20th century, had a huge impact on the pieces that can…have an impact and those that can't.” (Anna Harwell Chilenza, 05:59)

• On "Strange Fruit" and anti-lynching law:

  “The seeds took root when that legislation was passed.” (Anna Harwell Chilenza, 16:09)

• On protest songs and Congress:

  “Protest songs ... are incredibly powerful. ... Interestingly, Congress does not pay a lot of attention to protest songs.” (Anna Harwell Chilenza, 17:04)

• On the musical theater and politics:

  “Politicians talk about them. ... One of his assistants ... said, West Side Story." (Anna Harwell Chilenza, 19:47)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening, context for Star Spangled Banner: 01:09 – 04:32
• Civil War, Francis Scott Key, and "Lift Every Voice": 04:32 – 06:38
• Gershwin, Ellington, and intellectual property: 07:33 – 09:37
• Jazz diplomacy and the Cold War: 10:20 – 11:53
• "Strange Fruit" and anti-lynching activism: 11:53 – 16:12
• Listener calls and protest song impact: 16:12 – 18:40
• Musicals in Congress: West Side Story & Hamilton: 19:28 – 21:24

Memorable Listener Moments

• Caller John on “Ohio” (Neil Young, about Kent State massacre): “I think it’s an extremely powerful and legendary American political song.” (07:07)
• Listener text: Mahalia Jackson’s “Move On Up A Little Bit Higher” called “an important anthem of the civil rights movement.” (07:33)
• Caller John from New York recommends “Simple Song of Freedom” by Bobby Darin as a relevant antiwar song. (16:18)

Closing

The episode closes with Alison Stewart highlighting how music—from the anthem to protest songs to Broadway—never just acts as backdrop in American culture, but often sparks and shapes the country’s political changes and moral reckonings. Anna Harwell Chilenza’s insights, enriched by listener contributions, make clear that in the halls of Congress and beyond, music continues to challenge, unite, and inspire the nation.