Natasha Rothwell Takes the Lead

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: All Of It
Host: Alison Stewart (WNYC)
Guest: Natasha Rothwell
Episode: Natasha Rothwell Takes the Lead
Date: September 10, 2024

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into the making and meaning of Natasha Rothwell’s new Hulu comedic drama, How to Die Alone. Rothwell, known for her roles in Insecure and The White Lotus, discusses her journey from concept to showrunner and star, and explores the show’s themes of loneliness, self-discovery, and personal reinvention. The conversation is rich with personal insight, industry reflection, and a blend of comedy and vulnerability that mirrors the spirit of the series.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Genesis of How to Die Alone

• Authenticity at the Core

  • Rothwell recalls having two choices when creating the show: play it safe with entertainment or “dive into vulnerability and the potential of what that could do for you as a creator and an artist.” She chose the latter. (02:55)
  • “It was important for me not to pull any punches.” (02:55 – Natasha Rothwell)

• Character Relatability

  • Mel, the main character, is in her 30s, feeling a gap between who she is and who she wants to be—a journey Rothwell calls “relatable and very human.” (03:29)
  • "Her journey and the journey of many of us … it’s relatable and it feels very human to doubt your choices and to wonder if you made the right ones." (03:36 – Natasha Rothwell)

Drawing from Real Life: Comedy in Pain

• Origin of Near-Death Experience Scene
  • A pivotal incident involving an IKEA wardrobe in the show mirrors Rothwell’s own mishap, symbolizing pride and shame and serving as a catalyst for change. (04:36)
    • “It was one of those things … it was a badge of honor, but also a badge of shame because it meant I didn’t know how to ask for help.” (05:18 – Natasha Rothwell)

Loneliness vs. Being Alone

• Defining the Terms
  • Rothwell explores the difference between physical aloneness and emotional loneliness, drawn from her own experience as a young adult. (07:13)
    • "Being alone is … literally, there’s no one with you. … Being lonely is something that can be felt even in the company of someone else." (07:13 – Natasha Rothwell)
    • "It’s much more terrifying to die lonely." (07:41 – Natasha Rothwell)

Personal Background & Influence

• Life as an Air Force Brat
  • Frequent moves shaped Rothwell’s adaptability and desire to please; Mel’s discomfort with authenticity is rooted in this same experience. (08:10)
    • “There’s a kind of abandonment of self that occurs when your focus is on pleasing others and being a people pleaser.” (08:48 – Natasha Rothwell)

The Long Road to Production

• Development Timeline & Consistency
  • Seven or eight years in the making, but “the DNA is the exact same”—airport setting, accessibility driver protagonist, near-death moment as an epiphany. (09:28)

Showrunner Lessons & Challenges

• First-Time Showrunning
  • Rothwell’s past as a Bronx high school theater teacher and her experience on Insecure helped her discover, “I had the capacity to do it.” (10:25)
• Tough Choices
  • “You have to hire and you have to fire … those decisions, whenever they weren’t in the positive column, really were hard on me … but also allowed me to see that when you’re in that position, you’re making decisions that are in the best interest of everyone.” (11:23 – Natasha Rothwell)

Taking the Lead On-Screen

• Always Meant to Star as Mel
  • “Always. … To have a character like her exist … and I wanted to create a character that could experience the full spectrum of emotion and not be limited to just comedy or just drama.” (12:19 – Natasha Rothwell)

Dreamlike Devices & Internal Worlds

• Manifesting Mel’s Imagination
  • Show incorporates fantasy and projection, with Rothwell playing multiple roles—exploring psychological projection and character work. (13:16 & 13:46)

The Workplace as a Stage

• JFK as Living Backdrop
  • Rothwell’s fascination with the airport as a “petri dish of human activity” informed the setting. (14:58)

Fear of Flying: Metaphor & Reality

• Literal and Metaphorical Fears
  • Mel’s fear of flying is a stand-in for fear of letting go of control. (15:47)
    • “Mel’s fear of not being able to control the outcome of her life … is a huge part … she [is] risk averse … it’s safer not to try.” (16:01 – Natasha Rothwell)

Blending Comedy with Empathy

• Family, Edginess, and Heart
  • Writing that oscillates between humor and emotional depth, especially clear in family dynamics where “the idea of, ‘I may love you, but I don’t have to like you’” plays out. (17:51)
    • “There’s a bite in family relationships … comedy of just family dynamics at play during the holidays, it’s just a fun area to play in.” (18:10 – Natasha Rothwell)

Title and Thematic Purpose

• The Show’s Name
  • “How to Die Alone” predated the script and grounded the exploration of loneliness. (19:12)
  • “When I figured out I wanted to talk about loneliness and the difference between loneliness and being alone, that title popped in my head.” (19:16 – Natasha Rothwell)

Subverting Rom-Com Tropes

• Romantic Love vs. Self-Love
  • Rothwell wanted to break with traditional romantic narratives, instead focusing on Mel’s journey to self-love—a “Trojan Horse” for deeper conversations. (19:48)
    • “It’s not about the prince rescuing the princess. This is the princess getting on her own horse and riding out into the sunset by herself, happy. … the love affair that we have with ourself is paramount.” (20:12 – Natasha Rothwell)

Risk-Taking & Personal Growth

• Embracing Discomfort
  • Personal and creative risks are essential; “you can leap and build your wings on the way down.” (20:56)

Returning to The White Lotus

• Production Stories
  • Season 3 involved “so, so, so rainy” weather and a hilarious sense of cast camaraderie—“like war buddies and reminiscing about … the lizard that snuck into your room.” (21:38 & 21:55 – Natasha Rothwell)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Authentic Storytelling:
  “It was important for me not to pull any punches.” (02:55 – Natasha Rothwell)

• On Being Lonely vs. Alone:
  "Being lonely is something that can be felt even in the company of someone else." (07:23 – Natasha Rothwell)
  "It’s much more terrifying to die lonely." (07:41 – Natasha Rothwell)

• On Mel’s Family and Humor:
  “I may love you, but I don’t have to like you.” (17:53 – Natasha Rothwell)

• On Romantic Tropes:
  “It’s not about the prince rescuing the princess. This is the princess getting on her own horse and riding out into the sunset by herself, happy.” (20:12 – Natasha Rothwell)

• On Risk-Taking:
  “You can leap and build your wings on the way down, for sure.” (21:24 – Natasha Rothwell)

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Key Timestamps for Reference

• 02:55: Rothwell on authentic storytelling
• 04:36: Real-life inspiration for Mel’s brush with death
• 07:13: Defining loneliness vs. being alone
• 08:48: Childhood experience influencing Mel’s character
• 10:25: Lessons learned as a first-time showrunner
• 12:19: Rothwell always intended to play Mel
• 15:47: Mel’s fear of flying as metaphor
• 17:51: Blending edginess and empathy in family dynamics
• 19:12: The origin of the show’s title
• 20:12: Subverting the rom-com narrative
• 21:24: On risk-taking and personal growth
• 21:38: Production anecdotes from The White Lotus

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Conclusion

This episode offers an intimate look into Natasha Rothwell’s creative process, the personal roots and universal themes of How to Die Alone, and the importance of risk-taking, autonomy, and embracing both the vulnerability and comedic messiness of life. For Rothwell, making the leap from supporting roles to showrunner and lead actress is both a culmination of past experiences and a bold, honest reflection of her own journey—inviting viewers to laugh, feel, and maybe jump a little further themselves.

Transcript

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[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. You know those cards at the airport that people take to get from one gate to another? Do you ever think about the person driving those carts? Their hopes, their dreams, their bank accounts? In a new comedic drama, writer, actor and creator Natasha Rothwell plays that person. Her name's Mel and she drives around jfk. She's funny and makes questionable decisions. In the first episode, she ends up in the hospital and her emergency contact number is her. She's her own contact. She decides to make a change, face her fears. So she books a ticket to Hawaii for a friend's wedding. But that person getting married is her ex boyfriend and supervisor. And yep, she's afraid to fly. Mel begins stepping out of her comfort zone, making new friends who show up for her, letting gold, letting go of old unreliable ones and discovering that the past will come back to haunt you if you don't deal with it. A Collider review says Rothwell plays Melissa with a breathtaking vulnerability that is sure to bring tears to your eyes. On more than one occasion, the show goes deep into how insecurity impacts every facet of your life, exploring the fact that change is messy, painful and non linear. The show is titled how to Die Alone. It premieres on hulu this Friday, September 13th. Co creator and showrunner Natasha Rothwell joins us now. You may remember from Insecure and the White Lotus. Hi Natasha.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Hi. Thanks for having me.

[Alison Stewart]

So much of Mel's journey in how to Die Alone feels really authentic, really relatable. What was the catalyst for Mel?

[Natasha Rothwell]

The catalyst for Mel was, I mean, when you're presented with an opportunity to create Your own show, you could have one of two paths, which is just, you know, lean the entertainment of it. And the other one being dive into the vulnerability and the potential of what that could do for you as a creator and an artist. And it was important for me not to pull any punches. You know, it's hard to get things made these days in Hollywood. And I knew that if I was given this opportunity, I wanted to go all in.

[Alison Stewart]

Mel is not in her 20s. She's mid-30s, 35. How does she feel about her life?

[Natasha Rothwell]

I think Mel feels like she doesn't know how to close the distance between who she is and who she wants to be. And I think that that is such a relatable experience. And to put her in the airport and having her be afraid to fly, it was a great opportunity to sort of exacerbate that tension and to see what would happen when she decides to really start living, you know. And, yeah, I just think her. Her journey and the journey of many of us, it's just. It's relatable and it feels very human to doubt your choices and to wonder if you made the right ones. And, yeah, it's important for me to create a character that embodies that.

[Alison Stewart]

She has this near brush with death. It involves an IKEA catalog, IKEA bookcase, and, well, a mounted bookcase.

[Natasha Rothwell]

It shouldn't be.

[Alison Stewart]

It causes her death. It causes her potential death. First of all, how did you take the idea of a potential death and make it darkly comic?

[Natasha Rothwell]

Well, that moment in the show is from real life. No, wait. What? I. I didn't. I didn't almost die, but I went to IKEA and put a wardrobe on a credit card that I couldn't afford because I was having a terrible day and saw in the instructions that it required two people. And I defiantly put it together by myself. And it was pretty tall. It was about a seven and a half foot high wardrobe. And the shelf that was sort of leaning on the pegs slid out when I was lifting it up and smacked me right in the forehead. And luckily didn't die or it didn't draw blood. But I did walk around for about a week with a. It looked like I just saluted too hard. Just a giant bruise across my forehead. And it was one of those things that it was a badge of honor, but also a badge of shame because it meant I didn't know how to ask for help. And it really was something that I thought was relatable to put in the show. And I thought it could be really funny to use it as an agent of change for Mel. Wow.

[Alison Stewart]

I didn't expect that. When she's in the hospital, she discovers that, well, she knows already, but that her contact information, her emergency contact, is her. She doesn't put her family down. We understand why a few episodes later. But in that moment, what were you feeling as an actor?

[Natasha Rothwell]

It was very emotional, that scene, to be confronted with how isolated she had become. When I was in my early 20s and living in New York, I very much longed for connection, but really didn't know how. And I didn't understand that vulnerability was a part of that. And when it was suggested to me, I was afraid of it. And so being in that moment, her being in the hospital bed and revisiting that version of myself was pretty painful, but also cathartic. To be able to have that hindsight and to think about myself with a little bit more grace, because I understand what it's like to make decisions that lead to that moment of isolation. And she's confronted head on with the fact that she's gotta make some changes or else she is going to die. Not just alone, she's going to die lonely. And there's an inherent difference that the show tries to explore.

[Alison Stewart]

What's. How would you define that difference? What's an example of being lonely? What's an example of being alone?

[Natasha Rothwell]

Being alone is, you know, the. Literally, there's no one with you. You're by yourself. And I very much enjoy my alone time.

[Alison Stewart]

I agree.

[Natasha Rothwell]

And it's a great experience. And being lonely is something that can be felt even in the company of someone else. It's the feeling of not being seen, the feeling of a lack of connection. And so to have been afraid of dying alone most of my 20s, thankful. Thankfully, I had a lot of therapy that alerted me to that fact. And it helped me realize it's much more terrifying to die lonely.

[Alison Stewart]

You were an Air Force brat and you went around from different schools, like two middle schools, two high schools, two elementary schools. I'm wondering what part of Mel you. What part of you you tapped into.

[Natasha Rothwell]

To get to Mel's.

[Alison Stewart]

To Mel's. I don't know the way she was feeling about being part of the world, being the only one.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Yeah, I mean, it's interesting, right? It's all I knew. So I didn't have sort of something to compare to. But every time I moved to a new school, it was an opportunity to reinvent myself and become who I thought they wanted me to be. And the sacrifice of that and the Exchange in that is I didn't really focus on who I was or what I needed. I really was trying to fit in. And there's a kind of abandonment of self that occurs when your focus is on pleasing others and being a people pleaser and wanting to be accepted rather than being authentic and hoping that, you know, like attracts like and you find your. You find your tribe. And so I think it's very similar to Mel because I think that while she's in the company of a lot of people, she's very interested in making other people happy. I mean, it's her vocation, right? She's forward facing, she makes people happy for a living. And I don't think she really has slowed down to honor her needs for fear of scaring people away.

[Alison Stewart]

My guest is Natasha Rothwell. How to Die Alone. It premieres on Hulu this Friday. It was seven or eight years in the making, this special, this series. How is this show, this finished show, how is it different from the original idea?

[Natasha Rothwell]

Oddly enough, it's not very different. Oh, good. I definitely refined it, but the DNA is the exact same. It was always an airport. It was always, you know, an accessibility driver who has a near death experience to awaken her life. But the process of refining it was just diving deeper and thinking about future seasons and building out the world in that respect. But yeah, it was pretty much the same DNA the whole time.

[Alison Stewart]

It's eight episodes, right?

[Natasha Rothwell]

That's right.

[Alison Stewart]

Okay, good. Because I watched the whole thing. I'm like, I hope there's not another one. I hope there's not another one. I hope there's another season, let's put it that way. Was this your first time as a showrunner?

[Natasha Rothwell]

Yeah. Wow. Very first time. And first time having, you know, the words created by and my name after it. It was, it was. It's been a surreal experience.

[Alison Stewart]

What did you learn about being a showrunner that you didn't know before?

[Natasha Rothwell]

That I had the capacity to do it. You know, I. I think that, you know, my road to this moment has been varied and I did a lot of different things and at the time didn't realize the practical application of those experiences to my, my profession. And so much of it was useful. You know, I used to be a high school theater teacher in the Bronx, and when you're on set and you're rallying a group of actors and getting them to focus, it feels very similar. And so I feel very lucky also having had a front seat to Issa's, you know, trip down this very same Road on Insecure. And I learned a lot. And it was one of those things where I was just happy to be able to use that lived experience practically. And, yeah, it definitely. I was surprised by my ability to do it. Yeah, it was so fulfilling.

[Alison Stewart]

What was a tough decision you had to make?

[Natasha Rothwell]

Oh, wow. Being in the position of the boss you have to hire and you have to fire and make decisions that are best for the show. And those decisions, whenever they weren't in the positive column, really were hard on me because I think I try to operate from a place of grace and kindness always. And sometimes the best thing for the production is not necessarily the easiest decision to make. And so a few of those decisions were hard, but necessary, but also allowed me to see that when you're in that position, you're making decisions that are in the best interest of everyone, not just you. And, yeah, it gave me a bit of practice in having courage and standing behind the needs of the show.

[Alison Stewart]

Were you always going to play Mel?

[Natasha Rothwell]

Always. Always, yeah. Yeah. I mean, to have a character like her exist, you know, I walk through the world as a brown woman, and there are often preconceived notions about who I am and what I'm capable of doing. And so often the roles that I find are limited because of that. And I wanted to create a character that could experience the full spectrum of emotion and not be limited to just comedy or just drama, but be nuanced and interesting. And so when I created her, I was just. I was excited to play her.

[Alison Stewart]

Mel's sort of internal transformation. We learned that she's got a very active imagination and uses dreamlike sequences and how. How she's supposed to look or how she thinks she looks at a certain point. What went into that decision?

[Natasha Rothwell]

I became obsessed with the idea of psychological projection and our ability to put our mess on other people and also just projecting onto other people's lives as a way to sort of satiate our own wants and needs. And I loved doing character work in my acting program and also in comedy here in New York. And I thought it would be interesting to sort of nod to those projections by playing multiple characters in the show.

[Alison Stewart]

My guest is Natasha Rothwell. The name of the series is how to Die Alone. It premieres on Hulu on Friday. Let's listen to a clip. In this scene, Mel returns to the office after engaging in some. We'll call them, hijinks. She's hunting for prescription pain medication. They're trying to help her with her pain from the thing falling on her. It's in the airport's underbelly that day and she's with her best friend in the CEO's office. But to her surprise, she has been recommended that she should be part of the High Flyers management training program. Let's listen.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Okay. I am so sorry. I can explain. You don't have to. I got a call from the president of jfk. Great. You said you're gonna do High Flyers? No, I. I said I'd consider. Well, if you consider it, and it's a yes. I wrote you a letter of recommendation.

[Alison Stewart]

Okay, yjfk. Let's start there. New York, New York radio station.

[Natasha Rothwell]

That's right. That's right. I lived in Brooklyn for about seven years and flew in and out of there quite a bit. And as an actor, like, watching people and studying human behavior is a huge part of, you know, the way I view the world. And very voyeuristic. And I love being in airports and watching the stories unfold. And JFK is such an interesting sort of petri dish of human activity. So it made sense to do it there.

[Alison Stewart]

You know, she's got this, this thing where she's afraid to fly. And it's sort of a literal thing, but it's also a sort of philosophical thing. She's afraid to fly, she's afraid to be free. How would you describe her relationship with flying and how does she learn to get past it?

[Natasha Rothwell]

For me, and I'm not afraid to fly, but I definitely have a bit of flying anxiety. And it stems from a lack of control. When you're up there, there's a lot of trust that you have to give and give yourself over to a mode of transportation that is defying gravity and using physics to get us around. And I think Mel's fear of not being able to control the outcome of her life in the way that she wants it is a huge part because there's a lot of, you know, let me try this thing and not know what the outcome will be. I have to, I might make a mistake. And I think she's kind of risk averse. And for her that's it's safer not to try. And so I think that is really where the fear is born out of, is that if she goes up in the sky and she trusts the plane to get her to where she's going, you know, she has to really rely on other people. And I think she's sort of this, at least tries to be this needless wonder and doesn't want to trust other people in her life.

[Alison Stewart]

You have a Wonderful cast and a big shout out to Conrad.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Rickamora. Yes.

[Alison Stewart]

Have you seen Omar yet?

[Natasha Rothwell]

I have, and I'm obsessed. It's so good for people who haven't seen it.

[Alison Stewart]

He plays a gay Blinken.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Yeah. And, I mean, it's just everything you wanted to be and more.

[Alison Stewart]

Just thought I had to ask. You know, your writing style's often described as comedic. Sometimes it's described as empathetic. There's an episode with Mel's family where we really get to see how people who love each other can also hurt each other, especially with her brother. We'll leave it there.

[Natasha Rothwell]

But.

[Alison Stewart]

But how did you think about the edginess of your humor with your ability to be empathic? Because they sort of could be opposites or they could work together, I guess. I don't know. What do you think?

[Natasha Rothwell]

Yeah, I think that there's a bite in family relationships sometime, and I think it's the idea of, like, I may love you, but I don't have to like you. And exploring those complicated relationships familially, I think lends itself to humor because sometimes those situations can be so ridiculous, but it is biting. And I think that there's this reckoning that happens within the family of trying to understand each other as adults, which can also be very granular and itchy when you go home. At least for me, I have to resist the urge to revert back to myself when I was younger and being around my siblings and being at home. And so all of that tension, I think, makes it feel real. But I think that the comedy of just family dynamics at play during the holidays, it's just a fun area to play in. And being able to play the light and the dark, it lended itself to that.

[Alison Stewart]

My guest is Natasha Rothwell. The name of the series is how to Die Alone. It premieres on September 13th. Was that always the title, how to Die Alone, or did that come later?

[Natasha Rothwell]

That was the title. I actually named the show before I started writing it. When I figured out I wanted to talk about loneliness and the difference between loneliness and being alone, that title popped in my head. And literally, you can go all the way back to 2016 to my first, you know, drafts, and it's called how to Die Alone.

[Alison Stewart]

You told Entertainment Weekly you were a big fan of rom coms that you love. When Harry Met Sally. What was a crucial aspect of modern dating, of modern love, that you wanted to show in how to Die Alone?

[Natasha Rothwell]

Well, for me, in this show, the love story and the rom com of it, it really is A Trojan Horse to have more substantive conversations. And I really wanted to subvert the expectation that it was just going to be this love triangle that we would, you know, ride into the sunset with. And it's really about her finding and falling in love with herself. It's not about the prince rescuing the princess. This is the princess getting on her own horse and riding out into the sunset by herself, happy. And so I was able to play with some of the tropes of Rom com, but apply them to this, this woman in a way that makes her not codependent, but, you know, she has autonomy, she's able to. She has agency. She can make decisions for herself. And I think that's something beautiful. And we don't romanticize that very much. This idea that we're enough and that the love affair that we have with ourself is paramount, you know, and romantic love, while wonderful, it has to come after that, not before.

[Alison Stewart]

It sounds like you want to have a bigger conversation about risk taking and about personal reinvention.

[Natasha Rothwell]

Absolutely. I think I'm incredibly risk averse. I can be scared about most things. But I think, and I think maybe perhaps courtesy of my experience in improv, the tenant follow the fear. And that always yields good results and it has in real life. I think it challenges me to get out of my comfort zone. I may, you know, get out of it kicking and screaming, but I do think that you can leap and build your wings on the way down, for sure.

[Alison Stewart]

You just finished shooting The White Lotus 3. You can't tell us plot points, but fellow actors have said that there was a lot of rain in Thailand. Do you agree?

[Natasha Rothwell]

So much. It's so, so, so rainy there and so, so, so, so hot, but also so, so, so beautiful.

[Alison Stewart]

And another person on the cast said it's a little bit like being at camp, like being away for that long, that distance. Did you find that sort of camp feeling?

[Natasha Rothwell]

Oh, my God, yes. And it was even more acute season one because we were. We were bubble, you know, quarantined in a hotel, weren't permitted to leave, and it was vacant besides us. So it was. It felt like, you know, a five star prison. I really enjoy the camp feel because it is something that only the people that are there will ever know and experience, you know, and you feel it like war buddies and reminiscing about that snake you saw or the lizard that, like, hurt your, you know, like, snuck into your room.

[Alison Stewart]

The name of the show is how to Die Alone. It premieres this Friday on Hulu. Natasha Rothwell it's nice to meet you.

[Natasha Rothwell]

You too. Thank you so much for having me. If your small business is booming, you might say Cha Ching. But you should say like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. And we'll help your growing business. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

[Alison Stewart]

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