New Doc Celebrates Meredith Monk

Summary

Podcast Summary: All Of It with Alison Stewart – "New Doc Celebrates Meredith Monk"

Episode Overview In this episode of All Of It, hosted by Alison Stewart on WNYC, Tiffany Hansen engages listeners with an in-depth discussion about the newly released documentary "Monk in Pieces." The documentary, directed by Billy Shebar, delves into the illustrious career and personal life of Meredith Monk, a pioneering figure in contemporary music and performance art. The episode features insightful conversations with both Meredith Monk herself and director Billy Shebar, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of Monk's artistic journey and the making of the documentary.

Introduction to Meredith Monk and "Monk in Pieces" The episode opens with Tiffany Hansen introducing Meredith Monk, highlighting her accolades, including the National Medal of Arts awarded by President Barack Obama a decade prior, and an Obie Award for sustained achievement. Hansen presents "Monk in Pieces" as a collage of Meredith's career, featuring archival footage, critical reflections, and personal insights from peers like Philip Glass and David Byrne.

Meredith Monk's Artistic Philosophy At [02:09], Meredith Monk discusses the relatability and complexity of her work:

Meredith Monk: "I think a lot of what Meredith does to the ear, it sounds like something that anybody could do. So it's very relatable, but it's actually harder to do than it appears."

Director Billy Shebar on His Motivation and Approach Billy Shebar explains his deep connection to Meredith Monk's work and his motivation for creating the documentary:

Billy Shebar [03:25]: "I have incredible respect for Billy as an artist and director... he's been on tour with us over the years. I felt that he really knows my work very well and he has a beautiful musical ear."

Shebar emphasizes the documentary's focus on the musical aspect of Monk's work, acknowledging the challenge of encapsulating her multifaceted career in a single film.

Challenges in Documenting an Artist's Life At [03:54], Shebar reflects on the complexities of portraying Monk's life, including the struggles and community support she experienced:

Billy Shebar: "Even though I was struggling... the downtown world was a community... there was a lot of resistance and some pretty vicious writing, but at the same time I was also supported."

Evolution of Artistic Communities The conversation shifts to the changes in artistic communities over the decades:

Billy Shebar [05:22]: "There was really an audience of people that were really interested in artists that were trying to go break through boundaries... I think it's a little bit less now because the community is really spread out all over the place."

Shebar contrasts the tight-knit, collaborative environment of the past with the more dispersed nature of today's artistic communities, highlighting the importance of grassroots movements in contemporary art.

Thematic Structure of "Monk in Pieces" Shebar discusses the documentary's non-linear, montage-style structure, inspired by Monk's own artistic approach:

Billy Shebar [09:33]: "All of Meredith's theater work and film work is non linear... she's the one who introduced me to the idea of a mosaic approach."

This format allows the documentary to capture the essence of Monk's interdisciplinary work, presenting her life and art as interconnected pieces rather than a straightforward narrative.

Incorporating Personal Elements: The Turtle Metaphor A significant theme in the documentary is the metaphor of Meredith's turtle, Neutron, symbolizing timelessness and deliberate artistry:

Billy Shebar [20:49]: "The turtle is so slow and deliberate... that is a metaphor for Meredith's deliberate approach, the care, not rushing anything out."

The turtle serves as a throughline in the film, representing Monk's steady and thoughtful progression in her artistic endeavors.

Exploration of the Human Voice as an Instrument A pivotal discovery in Monk's career was her realization of the human voice's expressive potential beyond words:

Meredith Monk [02:26]: "The words are only one element and they don't really have to take precedence... you can do things without words and it still has meaning."

This insight revolutionized her work, allowing her to create profound emotional connections solely through vocal sounds.

Collaboration and Creative Process Shebar highlights the collaborative efforts involved in the documentary, including working with animator Paul Barrett to bring Monk's dreams to life on screen:

Billy Shebar [15:21]: "We found these two dreams... I had him animate those. It was really a wonderful collaboration."

These creative partnerships enriched the documentary, adding visual depth to Monk's surreal and evocative narratives.

Audience Reception and Screenings The episode promotes the documentary's screenings at the IFC Center, featuring Q&A sessions with Meredith Monk and Billy Shebar:

Billy Shebar [29:43]: "Tonight is 6:45 at the IFC Center. It's sold out... The run will go through July 31st."

Listeners are encouraged to attend these events to gain a deeper appreciation of Monk's work and the documentary's intricate portrayal of her life.

Concluding Insights The discussion culminates in reflections on the essence of artistry and the unwavering dedication required to continue creating:

Billy Shebar [23:15]: "It's choiceless choice... I vowed at a young age that I would devote myself to making art."

Shebar underscores the intrinsic motivation that drives artists like Monk, emphasizing the necessity of perseverance and passion in the creative process.

Notable Quotes

• Meredith Monk [02:26]: "You can do things without words and it still has meaning, it still has an emotional connection."

• Billy Shebar [06:17]: "Artists are the antennae of society... the work is related to what's coming in. We need a sense of healing from the arts."

• Billy Shebar [10:21]: "The music is the center of everything... my bloodline... emotional center of the work."

• Billy Shebar [24:22]: "You can't force it. You have to trust your ear."

Key Takeaways

1. Meredith Monk's Innovation: Monk's groundbreaking use of the human voice as a multifaceted instrument has left an indelible mark on contemporary performance art.

2. Documentary's Mosaic Structure: "Monk in Pieces" employs a non-linear, collage-like format to authentically represent Monk's interdisciplinary approach.

3. Importance of Community: The episode highlights the evolution of artistic communities and the enduring need for collaborative, grassroots movements in fostering creativity.

4. Symbolism of Neutron the Turtle: The recurring motif of the turtle in the documentary serves as a metaphor for Meredith's deliberate and timeless artistic journey.

5. Creative Collaboration: The making of the documentary was enriched by collaborative efforts, including innovative animation and the discovery of unseen archival footage.

6. Artistic Perseverance: Both Monk and Shebar emphasize the relentless dedication required to continue creating meaningful art, despite challenges and changing cultural landscapes.

Conclusion This episode of All Of It offers a rich and nuanced exploration of Meredith Monk's artistic legacy through the lens of "Monk in Pieces." Through thoughtful dialogue with Monk and director Billy Shebar, listeners gain valuable insights into the creative processes, challenges, and enduring influence of one of contemporary culture's most innovative artists. The documentary not only celebrates Monk's achievements but also serves as a testament to the power of interdisciplinary collaboration and the timeless nature of true artistic expression.

Transcript

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[Tiffany Hansen]

This is all of it. I'm Tiffany Hansen and for Ellison Stewart, thanks so much for spending part of your day with us. As you have been hearing, public media is being defunded by the federal government. For New York Public radio, that means a loss of nearly $6 million over the next two years. What we need is listeners like you to help fill this funding gap. You can do that by joining us right [e-mail] donate. Your contribution makes what we do here possible. And that includes today's show. And on today's show, we'll hear some music from Obangiar's latest album paradise now and talk with him about his care creative process. Author William Hennessy is here to talk. Take us rather on a tour of Manhattan's Western waterfront and we'll talk tacos with the New York Times where to eat writer Luke Fortney. That's the plan. So let's get started with a new documentary, monk in Pieces. Ten years ago, my next guest, Meredith Monk, was awarded by the national awarded the National Medal of Arts by President Barack Obama. Thirty years before that, more than a decade into her career, she received an Obie Award for sustained achievement. Today, a documentary about her career and life opens at the IFC Center. Monk in Pieces was directed by my other guest, Billy Shebar. It's a collage of footage from throughout Monk's career, as well as reflections on her life and thoughts from critics and peers such as Philip Glass, who can be heard calling her a quote, self contained theater company. And here's a clip from the film featuring commentary from David Byrne.

[Meredith Monk]

I think a lot of what Meredith does to the ear, it sounds like something that anybody could do. So it's very relatable, but it's actually harder to do than it appears.

[Billy Shebar]

A vacation, a vacation, a vacation.

[Meredith Monk]

As somebody who's coming from a music background, I realized that the words are only one element and they don't really have to take precedence. And I also realized that, yeah, you can do things without words and it still has meaning, it still has an emotional connection. Meredith opened up the possibilities.

[Tiffany Hansen]

Meredith Monk and Billy Shebar will be at the IFC center tonight, tomorrow and Saturday for screenings and Q&As. And they both, both join us now. Welcome. Thank you, Meredith. Why not? Let's just start with you we'll dig right in here. This isn't the first documentary that has been made about you. Why were you so interested in being involved in this one in particular?

[Billy Shebar]

Well, first of all, I have incredible respect for Billy as an artist and director. And his wife, Katie Geisinger has been performing with me since the early 90s. So he's been on tour with us over the years. I felt that he really knows my work very well and he has a beautiful musical ear. So he's really concentrating a lot on the musical aspect.

[Tiffany Hansen]

Was there anything that you felt was left unsaid that you wanted to have said in this?

[Billy Shebar]

Well, you know, I think to try to do a documentary about a person's life, you know, you can't. You could do three documentaries, you know, or five. I think the only thing that was hard for him to integrate was the fact that even though I was struggling, I mean, we all were, the downtown world was a community and there was the establishment that was really in some ways threatened by our work. And so that was hard to say that at the same time as like there are a lot of really bad reviews in the film. I didn't even see that. So it's like he was an archaeologist. But I think at the same time I got a lot of support. You know, there was the Village Voice, would they would do beautiful writing or the Soho Weekly News or, you know, there were also publications like Performing Arts Journal and Yale Drama Review and Tulane Drama Review. So it was a little bit more complex that you can't just get that all into a film. You know, he. He wanted to really concentrate on the music. So, you know, that would be the only thing that I think would be inspiring to younger people to know that indeed, you know, there was a lot of resistance and some pretty vicious writing, but at the same time I was also supported because otherwise how would I have been brave enough to go on, to go on without any support? And I always also we had a built in audience in those days. There was a community downtown.

[Tiffany Hansen]

Tell us what you mean by those days.

[Billy Shebar]

I'm saying like the 60s, the 70s, you know, the, the 80s. I mean there was really an audience of people that were really interested in artists that were trying to go break through boundaries of the different art forms and, you know, really exploring and innovating. So there was that kind of interest at that time.

[Tiffany Hansen]

So does that not exist now?

[Billy Shebar]

I think it's a little bit less because the community is really spread out all over the place. You know, it was really geographical at that Time it was the downtown world and the uptown world, and there were artists from all different mediums that were exchanging ideas and trying to get, you know, break through their. Their own media. So, for example, the visual artists were making dances and the musicians were making plays. And I mean, there was a wonderful exchange. I think it's more spread out now.

[Tiffany Hansen]

So the community of the Internet doesn't accomplish the same thing.

[Billy Shebar]

I think people don't know, you know, they're not able to find their real community, you know, with the group. And so what I feel is happening now, and I also say to young people that I meet is stay with a grassroots idea. You know, in other words, I think that's a world that's very hard for young people to start as artists because of the financial issues. But also imagine the same thing that's going on with wnyc, you know, that's going on with the arts now. There are no critics. And so it's more like to try to form your own grassroots kind of community of people that feel the same way, that want to try new things, that want to push forward. Because I think artists are the. They're, in a sense, they're the antennae of the society. And, you know, the work is related to what's coming in. It's a reaction to what's coming in in the world. And I think that now we really need. Because it's such a sad period, we need a sense of healing from the arts.

[Tiffany Hansen]

I think Jon Stewart just had a quote about Stephen Colbert and said, he's the banana peel in the coal mine. Which I thought was very funny way to put it.

[Billy Shebar]

It's so true.

[Tiffany Hansen]

Okay, Billy, back to your film. So tell us how you became interested in this. It wasn't simply just a matter of your wife works with her, was it?

[Billy Shebar]

Well. Well, I gotta say, that's really what started it all, because I. I hadn't really heard of Meredith or listened to her music until in 1990, Meredith cast Katie in the original production of Atlas. So she started coming home with these fascinating fragments of material that they were working on. And Katie's worked with her ever since, really, for the last 35 years, they've done every major piece. So I've had this front row seat, you know, both really coming to love Meredith's music and appreciate the work, the interdisciplinary nature of her work, and also to get to know Meredith. And it kind of, you know, dawning on me over the time that this would be a really great documentary.

[Tiffany Hansen]

When she first brought that home. What do you Remember what your initial thought was like, Hm. Wonder what that's about.

[Billy Shebar]

Yeah. And then once I started, as a result of that, listening to completed pieces that she had, you know, had worked on since the 70s, I really found it mind blowing. You know, I mean, what David Burns says is dead on. You know, it's like it. It manages without words to express the most profound emotions. And I really think that's fascinating for.

[Tiffany Hansen]

People who aren't familiar with Meredith. And a lot of people will say that her work defies description. We've been talking about the way it defies genre. But for somebody who's listening in this and. And is like, I don't know who that is. What. What is she? What does she do? How would you describe it?

[Billy Shebar]

I mean, you got the artist right here, so she can tell you. But, I mean, the way I respond to it is she's a rare case of somebody who's really exceptionally good at about five or six different art forms. She's a filmmaker, she's a theater director, she's an installation artist, she's a composer, she's a performer, and she does them all incredibly well. And that's kind of, you know. But if you had to. I suppose if you have to boil Meredith down to the essence, and here I am doing this, like, right in front of her. It has to do with.

[Tiffany Hansen]

She can turn the other direct.

[Billy Shebar]

It has to do with her discovery that she made in the 60s about the human voice and the fact that the voice is infinitely expressive without words. And she just went about to sort of investigate her own voice and what it could do and produce these extraordinary pieces that really can't even be successfully written down. And even though people are clamoring to do that, the score was never part of that.

[Tiffany Hansen]

Did he get it right, Meredith?

[Billy Shebar]

Well, I actually think that all these things are one thing. You know, I feel like, you know, the Western culture is the only one that separates these elements. If you think about African culture or, like, Chinese opera or Kabuki theater, all those forms, those perceptual modes, are woven into one form. So I think that that's what I've always thought that, you know, like, offer this as the richness of us as human beings. And so some pieces are. And also I really work with trying to listen very deeply to what a piece wants in terms of the medium that I use. So, I mean, the music is the river of my life. The music is the center of everything. And I came from a singer's family, and I had done these kind of Interdisciplinary multimedia pieces. But when I found that, discovered that moment of my revelation about the voice, it was really coming back to, in a way, my bloodline. And knowing that that was the emotional center of the work. And then the other aspects I weave together sometimes. And sometimes I just stay with music because sometimes, you know, it takes maybe two years or more to make one of the large installation or interdisciplinary works. But I'm always writing music when.

[Tiffany Hansen]

If you can pinpoint when that discovery happened. Were you a child when you.

[Billy Shebar]

Well, I always sang myself to sleep. And, you know, music was like breathing to me and my family, because my grandfather was a bass baritone from Russia. My great grandfather apparently was a cantor, and my mother was a radio singer. So I was in radio booths and CBS and ABC because she was singing jingles every day. So the music is very natural to me. But I think the revelation about the voice as an instrument, that I could really find what the voice could do on many levels. Like, within the voice, there are characters, there are landscapes, there are ways of moving the voice, like, almost like a dancing voice. That happened around 1965. I had been in New York for a year and a half, and I had presented more visual gestural pieces in galleries with a little bit of vocal work.

[Tiffany Hansen]

But.

[Billy Shebar]

But then I. I was missing singing a lot because I went to Sarah Lawrence College and I. They allowed me to have a combined performing arts program of dance, music, you know, vocal music and theater. And so. But I was missing, really getting down to my singing. So I went back to the piano and I was just doing regular vocalizing. And then I just had this moment where I realized, oh, I can actually make a whole language of the voice, like dance, you know, like a nonverbal language of the voice that has all these different aspects in it. And I knew that I had found what was going to be the heart of my work for the rest of my life.

[Tiffany Hansen]

Billy, the documentary is presented sort of like a montage. It's in pieces, not strictly narrative. How did you decide on that format?

[Billy Shebar]

Well, I mean, all of Meredith's. I would say all of Meredith's theater work and film work is. I would say, non linear. It's not an ABCD narrative. She's the one who introduced me to the idea of a mosaic approach, which is wonderfully freeing when you're making a film you can use. I can use. I could use the music that I love the most and the visual material that was the strongest from her archive and just present it in pieces. So it was really inspired by Meredith's own work that I took this approach to the film. And I also just want to say that how grateful I am to Meredith because being the subject of a documentary is an incredibly huge leap of faith. It really requires a lot of vulnerability. And the fact that she sort of gave me access to her archive and agreed to be part of this film and really gave me the freedom to interpret her music and her material the way I wanted to is just like an incredible gift. It's really like a dream.

[Tiffany Hansen]

So do you think the format is perhaps a better reflection of her as a. As an artist in the way that it's presented? In other words, is it really like the viewer is also in the way the information is being presented, also getting a piece of Meredith? You're nodding.

[Billy Shebar]

That's exactly what I hope it is. You know, that is exactly right. Yeah.

[Tiffany Hansen]

In one scene there's a puppet show, some really colorful two dimensional drawings. Just tell us about that. Describe that for us so we can give listeners a little bit of a paint a picture.

[Billy Shebar]

I sort of discovered the work of this animator, Paul Barrett. I think it was at a mostly Mozart production of the mag Magic Flute, where he had the Queen of the Night behind a scrim and you just saw her head attached to a giant spider's body. That was like chasing Tamino around the stage. And I said, I really want to talk to this guy. So I called him. He lives in. He works and lives in Margate, near London in the uk. And we worked on another project together that hasn't quite kind of come to bloom yet. But in the course of that, I said, hey, I'm doing this film about Meredith Monk. He's like, I love Meredith Monk. I'll do anything, really. It was like that. He's also one of these unbelievably gung ho. Just the best collaborator. So we started. We had access to Meredith's dream journal and we found these two dreams. So I had him animate those. And then that was so fun that I said, hey, could you take these little text sequences with the reviews and so on and animate the text so that it's not just quotes, you know, static quotes. And then he'd. He did that as well. He really ended up really giving a graphic look to the whole film. And it was just really a wonderful collaboration.

[Tiffany Hansen]

Talking about Meredith's dreams. Meredith, at one point, you talk about dreaming about your turtle. Your turtle has a recurring role here. And so I guess twofold. Maybe just talk about broadly your instinct to write down your dreams and keep it keep a dream journal. And then to how that translated for Neutron.

[Billy Shebar]

First I wanted to say about the. I was dreaming about her. But I called the piece Turtle Dreams because I was thinking, well, I wonder whether a turtle dreams.

[Tiffany Hansen]

I hope so.

[Billy Shebar]

Like, what would a turtle's dreams be?

[Tiffany Hansen]

I hope they do.

[Billy Shebar]

So it kind of went both ways, I think. Like when I was. Even from the time I was in my early 20s, there was. I think that one of the things that we were. My generation was searching for or exploring was different states of mind, you know, different levels of consciousness. You know, in a way, I think my work was very influenced by the surrealists at that time. You know, especially my early work. Now it's quite different. But I mean at that time I was fascinated by these different levels of consciousness. So I think that's why I started keeping the dream journal. And it usually never got into the work very much. Except for, strangely enough, one of the dreams in the film that Billy made about the. What you said the puppet show. It's interesting that you said puppet show. I think in the dream they were. It was sort of puppets and they were shiny, green, emerald, like little puppets that these kids had brought into my house after they had destroyed my house. That image actually went right into Education of the girl child. There's a character in Education of the girl child that is called Death. And she comes in and it's like a very funny kind of funny again, dark and funny simultaneously. She comes in three times and takes one of the women away. And one of the images is she's got like this long man's coat. And my friend Diana Bryan made these little puppets that stayed on her shoulders. And she has her little hands, have these little puppets and a little puppet sitting on her head like you know, little little imps or something like that. So that actually went right into the piece. But it's not. It wasn't usual that I did that. Habitual behavior.

[Tiffany Hansen]

Got it. Understood. We are speaking with Meredith Monk about the biographical documentary called Monk in Pieces. We're also talking with director Billy Shebar the film screens starting tonight at the IFC Center. We have to. Meredith, though very quickly I mentioned a turtle. So just explain for listeners who the turtle is. And maybe then Billy, why you. You could explain why this turtle makes an appearance in the. In the film.

[Billy Shebar]

Oh, well, this turtle don't no longer exist. I had her 44 years. Her name was Neutral.

[Tiffany Hansen]

Wow.

[Billy Shebar]

She was a three toed box tortoise. And we don't.

[Tiffany Hansen]

We.

[Billy Shebar]

We never knew whether she. When I got her, which was 1978, whether she was a full grown tortoise or not. I think she might have been because I don't remember her growing very much. So who knows how old she really was. But I had the privilege of coexisting with her for 44 years. And I just found, you know, there's something about the primal forms of these animals that have existed unchanged for millions of years. It was so incredible. Like watching her eat was like watching a Godzilla film.

[Tiffany Hansen]

Right.

[Billy Shebar]

It would really take her time eating. And she slowed me down, she calmed me down, you know, was a wonderful, wonderful companion. And she did have a little personality, I think. But I don't even know whether she Knew Mommy. After 44 years. I have no idea. It's hard to know, again, what is turtle consciousness. But, you know, my peace Turtle dreams was thinking about not only the dreams that I would have had with her of her, but also, what would a turtle dream be?

[Tiffany Hansen]

Well, I could sit around with you and anthropomorphize her all day long. But, Billy, why in the film? Why are we seeing Neutron in the film?

[Billy Shebar]

Well, you know, the challenge of a mosaic structure is to find these little kind of threads that you can put throughout the film so that people are continually drawn to through it. And I thought, I mean, the relationship with Neutron is really lovely with Meredith, but also I do think there's a metaphor that I think you're kind of hinting at as well that there, you know, I think there's a. The turtle is so slow and deliberate. And I feel like that somehow is a metaphor for Meredith's kind of the deliberate approach, the care, not rushing anything out, you know, and you see these images of the turtle just kind of moving forward solidly, you know, so. So, yeah, I mean, I think that that made for. For a great kind of through line.

Yeah. And I also think that my work is very much about time and timelessness. You know, I always say there are two kind of main branches of artists. Some artists are very reflective of their particular time and they're telling the truth about what's going on in the time. And some artists are more interested in making art that's a little bit more timeless. So that it's actually. It doesn't refer particularly to a particular time period. So I think that's really what I've always tried to do. And so that idea of an ancient form, you know, an ancient form of nature that's remained unchanged and continues to function is a kind of metaphor for that timelessness.

And if I could just add one thing about the use of it in the film. At a certain point when I had kind of hit a wall editing myself, and with a bunch of other editors piecemeal, I brought in Sabina Crayon Buhl, who's this fabulous documentary editor. And she really helped me craft that, you know, that through Line with Neutron and Find that and a million other ways to kind of create connective tissue that you need when you're using this mosaic structure.

[Tiffany Hansen]

Meredith, I mentioned President Obama in his remarks when he was giving you the National Medal of the Arts, says he quotes, quoted you as saying, I've been in fashion, out of fashion, and I just keep trucking along. If that doesn't sound like a turtle, you just keep trucking along.

[Billy Shebar]

You know what he said that was so great? He said, I'm sometimes in passion, and out of passion, he said, I can relate to that.

[Tiffany Hansen]

Yeah, I really started laughing.

[Billy Shebar]

So great. I mean, that was a magical day. It was magical.

[Tiffany Hansen]

But, Meredith, isn't the job of an artist one of the jobs of an artist to just keep doing the art, just to keep.

[Billy Shebar]

Oh, definitely.

[Tiffany Hansen]

Yeah.

[Billy Shebar]

Well, I always say it's choiceless choice. You know, I think I was called, you know, I just finished a big installation in Europe of all my video and installation work, and it's called Calling. And I think it's, you know, there's a difference between a job and being called. And I think that, you know, in a way, you know, you can turn your back on it if you're called. But I think that it really is choiceless choice. And I feel like I vowed at a young age that I would devote myself to making art.

[Tiffany Hansen]

I want to get back to that. You said the music is sort of a river of songs or a river running through everything. I'm wondering what you think the music has over the years now we can look back now over the years, has taught you about yourself and your art.

[Billy Shebar]

Wow, that's wonderful. And I'd have to really ponder that. I think it just affirms that I can trust my ear, you know, and I have to listen to what it wants. That's the thing that's so amazing about being an artist. Cause you're doing something that's coming through from a larger. You're part of a larger whole, and you can't force it. Music is a really hard form, and you cannot force it. You have to listen to what it wants. Sometimes you even have to give up your favorite thing to make the integrity of your form and so, you know, I wait a lot and listen a lot. You know, I'm not fast. I have to, really. And I'm at the piano, and then, you know, I might have one. And also, I'm scared to death. Every piece after even 16 years when I'm starting, because I've always wanted to do something new. I never want to do the same, make the same shirt over and over again. So I'm sitting there and, like, you know, very vulnerable beginner's mind. And then I might get one, you know, I'm playing, you know, the piano or singing, and I might get one little phrase, and then I realize, oh, I've never heard that before. I've never done that before. And then the fear turns into curiosity and interest. And then it's like a detective novel. You've got that first clue. So that's what I've learned from making music, you know, also that you can't force it. You have to trust. So I do really trust my ear. I really do.

[Tiffany Hansen]

There is a curiosity that's required of artists, I think, Right. In order to stay.

[Billy Shebar]

Definitely.

[Tiffany Hansen]

And I'm wondering, how did you capture that?

[Billy Shebar]

Well, I think curiosity is such an important quality, especially in this world that we're living in, where everything is filled in, you know, by the digital communication system. I mean, imagination is something to really cherish and to really fight for. Everything is so filled in. So I think I've always loved to learn. I would like to continue learning until I leave the planet. And I think curiosity is such a wonderful quality, like, to just want to know about other people, about the world that we're living in, about, you know, that I think that. And I think art can offer that. Art can offer questions, you know, like, not necessarily answers, but questions.

[Tiffany Hansen]

Billy, did you think about her curiosity when you were making this film?

[Billy Shebar]

Well, yeah, I mean, I think I channeled it in a way because I really. My own curiosity drove me to explore all of her music and explore her archive, which is vast and huge. And I think we even made some discoveries that you didn't know were in there. So it was a constant, really wonderful process of discovery, with a lot of help from Peter Shosholi at the House foundation to kind of just locate, you know, 16 millimeter film reels in the bottom of a box and deep storage and find that it was this, like, gold mine of great stuff. So curiosity, you know. Yeah. Drove the whole thing.

[Tiffany Hansen]

Speaking of that research for the film, Meredith, was there something that was unearthed that surprised you?

[Billy Shebar]

Yeah, there's some Footage from the rehearsals of Atlas that I had never seen. There's some early movement sequences. I mean, it was. Oh, it's so moving, you know, I have to say, Meredith, how do you like the film? Well, I laughed, I cried. It's a good film. That would be my response.

[Tiffany Hansen]

That's a perfectly acceptable response, I think. So, Billy, before we leave here, I just want to mention the fact that our colleague John Schaeffer will be with you all tonight at ifc. He is, is also in the film along with David Byrne and others. When you began thinking about the voices of other people to talk about Meredith, what were you looking for?

[Billy Shebar]

Well, I knew this was not going to be an interview driven film because there was just too much great material. We were not approaching it as a kind of explain. To explain too much. So a very, very targeted use of interviews. So I knew John, and I knew John, that John would, you know, express so well how he felt about discovering Meredith's music. David Byrne, no brainer, he's such an incredible talent. And to find out that he was inspired by Meredith was like, yes, please, let's do that. Bjork is the other who.

[Tiffany Hansen]

That makes sense.

[Billy Shebar]

Yeah, because Bjork talks about when she was 16, discovering Dolman music and, you know, listening to it non stop, you know, and, and that it actually changed her direction and her thought about the human voice and how to use it and how to write for it. And then she went on to actually perform, you know, pieces of Meredith like Gotham Lullaby. So. So yeah, so I think it was just very, you know, if somebody made sense and we could build a chapter of the piece of the film around it, then, then we went for it.

[Tiffany Hansen]

And remind our listeners tonight. Wait, tonight is Thursday Tonight?

[Billy Shebar]

Yes, tonight. Yeah, tonight is 6:45 at the IFC Center. It's sold out. John Schaefer. And then tomorrow, which is also sold out, Yay. Tomorrow evening with Nadia Sirota, who's gonna do the Q and A with me and Meredith.

[Tiffany Hansen]

Okay.

[Billy Shebar]

And then it will continue. The run will go through July 31st.

[Tiffany Hansen]

Oh, great. Okay.

[Billy Shebar]

So please, yeah, please come and you know, you can, you can find out about all our other screenings on monkinpieces.com, which is our website. Instagram is unkinpieces. Yeah, I'm just trying to give the full plug here.

[Tiffany Hansen]

That's great. We love the full plug. All right, well, our guests have been Meredith, Monk and also Billy Schebar talking about the documentary film about Meredith called Monk in Pieces. And yes, it will be at ifc and thank you to you both for joining us.

[Billy Shebar]

Thank you so much. It was a joy.

Thank you Tiffany.

Thank you Tiffany.

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