New True Crime Podcast, 'The Chinatown Sting'

Summary

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Podcast Summary: “All Of It” – New True Crime Podcast, ‘The Chinatown Sting’

Host: Alison Stewart (A)
Guest: Lydia Jean Cott (B), Host of The Chinatown Sting
Air Date: September 25, 2025
Notable Participants: Judge Beryl Howell (mentioned), Shuyu Wang (co-reporter), “Tina” and “Wa” (interview subjects), Johnny “Onion Head” Ng (subject)

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Episode Overview

This episode spotlights the new true crime podcast, The Chinatown Sting, hosted by journalist Lydia Jean Cott. The show delves into the dramatic 1980s heroin trafficking network that operated in New York's Chinatown, starting from the surprising arrest of a single mom recruited through her mahjong club. The conversation explores not only the criminal investigation and policing of Chinatown gangs but also the social, historical, and human dimensions of justice and survival in marginalized communities.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins of the Podcast and the Case

• Personal Connection: The podcast’s genesis lies in Lydia receiving a box of documents from her boyfriend’s mother, Judge Beryl Howell, who prosecuted the original 1980s case.
  • “She kind of demystified [the law] for me. And then I wanted to do that in my reporting.” (B, 01:34 – 02:31)
• First case for Judge Howell: As a brand-new federal prosecutor, Howell inherited a daunting case involving heroin trafficking through women in mahjong clubs.

2. Chinatown and Historical Context

• Chinatown as Enclave: Lydia’s research spotlighted Chinatown’s very formation as a result of historical anti-Chinese exclusion and violence.
  • “Chinatowns were formed as kind of like safe havens because Chinese immigrants felt excluded and attacked...” (B, 05:52 – 06:37)
• Intergenerational Immigrant Experience: Lydia confessed she knew little of this legacy prior to reporting the podcast.

3. Investigative Reporting Challenges

• Tracking Down Sources: Many involved were hard to find after decades; language barriers and unfamiliarity complicated reporting.
  • “A lot of times the people who answered the doors didn’t speak English. So it was really great to have someone who could translate with me.” (B, 06:49 – 07:38)
• Human Element: Gaining the trust of “Tina” and “Wa,” two central figures, required patience and sensitivity.

4. Social Forces Behind Gang Activity

• Lack of Opportunity: Youth in Chinatown faced limited upward mobility and discrimination, making gang life alluring for a sense of belonging and financial promise.
  • “There wasn’t a ton of like, job opportunities that felt open. And one way to get a lot of money is to join a gang... being a member of this gang, you felt powerful. You felt like you had a sense of belonging.” (B, 09:41 – 10:49)
• Law Enforcement Inattention: Authorities largely ignored the violence until it spilled out of ethnically-bound territory.

5. Details of The Heroin Scheme

• Operational Method: Women at mahjong parlors received boxes containing stuffed animals, peppers for scent-masking, tea boxes, and hidden heroin.
  • “These boxes...contained some variation of stuffed animals, peppers to mask the smell, tea boxes...and...millions of dollars worth of heroin.” (B, 11:00 – 11:29)
• Ambiguity of Guilt: Most women likely suspected but did not explicitly know they were handling drugs.
  • “There’s deciding not to know, and there’s literally not knowing...I would say it was option two...most people were landing.” (B, 11:32 – 12:05)

6. Portraits of Main Characters

• Johnny “Onion Head” Ng: Head of the Flying Dragons gang, he shifted operations from local gambling to international heroin trafficking.
  • “When he took over the gang, he decided...I know a way we can make a ton more money because he had connections to the triads in Hong Kong who were bringing in heroin.” (B, 12:24 – 13:33)
• Tina: Mixed Portuguese and Chinese descent, she faced the moral dilemma of betraying her best friend versus a long prison sentence.
• Wa: Charismatic “center of life in Chinatown,” able to “make you feel so alive when you’re with her.”
  • “How do you get people to do whatever you want for you?”
  • “Because I’m smart.” (Wa, 16:31 – 16:33, quoted in podcast exchange)
  • “She just makes you feel like when you’re with her, like up is down and down is up...” (B, 16:41 – 16:47)

7. Aftermath for the Women Involved

• Long-lasting Consequences: Tina’s career and social life were upended; Wa continues to carry shame about the events.
  • “It had a huge. A huge impact on her life. And Wa...still has a lot of shame.” (B, 18:03 – 18:48)

8. Judge Howell’s Perspective and Empathy in Justice

• On Fairness over Toughness: Judge Howell advocated for fairness and empathy in justice, understanding that trust in the system is vital.
  • “She’s less interested in being tough than being fair. And it was really important to her...whether the women...felt like they had been treated fairly.” (B, 19:48 – 20:55)

9. Themes of Survival and Human Resilience

• Lydia sees the heart of the podcast as a story of survival, not just true crime:
  • “I think it’s more about survival and less about the true crime story.” (B, 21:03 – 21:13)
• The women’s—indeed all the main characters’—paths serve as role models of resilience.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the meaning of the case:
  “I felt like if I explored it and understood it, I would also understand how she came to do the law the way that she does the law...” (B, 02:00)
• On Chinatowns as enclave:
  “That wouldn’t have happened if Chinatown didn’t become this, like, enclave that it did as a result of this racism and exclusion.” (B, 06:37)
• On Onion Head:
  “[Onion Head’s] hair stood up like an onion.” (B, 13:24)
• Wa on her own charisma:
  “Because I’m smart. I can convince them, you know, I’m smart.” (Wa, 16:33 – 16:36)
• On survival vs. crime:
  “Yes, I think it’s about...I think it’s more about survival and less about the true crime story.” (B, 21:03 – 21:13)

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Important Timestamps

• [01:34] – Lydia explains receiving the case from Judge Beryl Howell.
• [05:52] – The roots of Chinatown and their significance to the story.
• [06:49] – The investigative challenge of tracking down involved women.
• [09:41] – Explaining the allure of gang life in 1980s Chinatown.
• [11:00] – The heroin smuggling method.
• [12:24] – “Onion Head” shifting the gang into international drug trafficking.
• [13:42] – Tina’s introduction and dilemma.
• [15:20] – Who Wa is and her personality.
• [16:14 – 16:36] – Wa jovially recalling her time in jail and her power of persuasion.
• [18:03] – Real-life consequences for Tina and Wa.
• [19:48] – The importance of fairness in justice.

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Takeaways

• The Chinatown Sting podcast is not just a true crime exposé but a layered account of survival, difficult choices, and the social forces shaping immigrant communities.
• The story reveals how law, crime, and everyday life intermingle in underrepresented enclaves, and how justice can only function if infused with fairness and empathy.
• Through vividly-drawn characters and meticulous reporting, Lydia Jean Cott brings forward the untold stories of women on the margins, and the complexities of community, survival, and accountability.

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Transcript

[A]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Chinatown attracts New Yorkers and tourists alike for its authentic cuisine, shopping and cultural events. Thousands flock to the area every lunar new year to celebrate. But Chinatown isn't just a tourist destination. Like most immigrant communities, it's just home. But like this big cities, it has had its problems. A new podcast spotlights the 1980s Chinatown drug trafficking problem. Law enforcement had discovered large quantities of heroin was being moved by Chinatown gangs. It was a highly lucrative business, but it also came with risks. Fights over who controlled the distribution were becoming even more violent. An investigation that helped bring down one of the most powerful gangsters. And it all started with the arrest of a single mom who had been recruited through her mahjong club. The podcast is called the Chinatown Sting. It's hosted by journalist Lydia Jean Nod. She's a senior editor and producer at Pushkin Industries and is a report of stories for the BBC, NPR, and here at wnyc. Lydia joins us today. Hi, Lydia.

[B]

Hi.

[A]

So you mentioned that you discovered this case when Sun Wong gave you a box of documents, and it was given to you by your boyfriend's mom, who happens to be a federal judge. So who is she and how does she come to give you this box?

[B]

Yes. So her name is Beryl Howell, and she's a federal judge in Washington, D.C. so she's overseen a lot of high profile cases, like secret grand jury investigations into President Trump, the case against Giuliani, etc. I've known her for a very long time, ever since I was in elementary school, actually. So we're in the same, you know, same neighborhood. She's someone who I look up to a lot. And she's actually why I decided I wanted to report about the law, because I feel like, you know, the law can seem very intimidating. Courthouses kind of look like churches, judges wear robes. It's kind of a scary thing. And she kind of demystified it for me. And then I wanted to do that in my reporting. And this case is her first case. It started just a few weeks on the job, and I felt like if I explored it and understood it, I would also understand how she came to do the law the way that she does the law and understand kind of like how people who do justice think about justice.

[C]

Yeah, we should make that point. That when it started, she was just at the beginning of her career in the 1980s. I mean, she went from, you know, from adjudicating on January 6 rioters. But in 1988, where was she what was she doing? Tell us a little bit more about Beryl.

[B]

Yes. So she was a prosecutor in the Eastern District of New York, which is in Brooklyn. And she had been on the job basically just a few weeks. Wow. And, yeah, she was in the situation where there were all these women who had young children who were in custody, and they were accused of accepting these boxes that had stuffed animals, tea, and millions of dollars worth of heroin. And she needed to know why they did it and for who, and they weren't talking.

[A]

What was it about this case that resonated with her so deeply?

[B]

Well, it was a case that. It was an incredibly complicated case. So she started it a few weeks once, you know, a few weeks as a federal. When she started as a federal prosecutor. And she carried it continued on until she became, like, chief of the Narcotics Division in the Eastern District of New York. It was like, four or five years. And in order to build a case like this, it required many steps. Lots of things went wrong. There was an international extradition, but also at the heart of it was creating relationships with these women and trying to gather the information that she needed to build it. And I think it was the relationships and the human side of it that is what really stuck with her.

[A]

I'm speaking with Lia Jeancar about her new podcast, the Chinatown Thing. The first three episodes are out now, wherever you get your podcast. So how soon did you realize that this was something you wanted to pursue for a podcast?

[B]

The first time I heard it, I went. I think. I can't even remember when I. It's one of those stories where it's like, you can't remember when you first heard it. You kind of feel like you always knew it. It's like a family. This case is kind of family legend, and I've been part of that family kind of for a really long time. So I can't pinpoint it exactly, but I think it was one of those times where we were sitting around the dinner table and Barela's kind of reminiscing, and she told this story of these mahjong parlors in Chinatown and these women and how she got to know them. And I was just like, I really want to know more. I want to do a story about this. I didn't think it would ever be possible because judges so rarely give interviews. So I thought there was. I thought it was a dream. And I also thought there was no way I would be able to find the people who were in the story. But I was like, I want to see this movie. I Want to know more?

[A]

So before you got started, though, how familiar were you with the history in.

[C]

The neighborhood of Chinatown?

[B]

Not that familiar at all. So I was a baby in the East Village, so I consider, you know, I'm a New Yorker, kind of. I spent my babyhood here and then moved to D.C. when I was a little older. But I did not know anything about the history of Chinatown and how it came to be and the legacy of the Chinese Exclusion Act. All of that were things that I discovered through reporting this podcast.

[C]

What did you discover in doing your.

[A]

Research before you started?

[C]

You have to do your research about Chinatown. What did you discover about Chinatown that you clocked in your brain and you said this. This is going to matter later on?

[B]

I think it was really. I think it's really important to think about how Chinatowns were formed and how it is a legacy of the Chinese Exclusion act in the 1800s and how basically, originally, a lot of Chinese immigrants came to the west coast during the Gold Rush. And then there was all of this anti Chinese sentiment. And people, they were kind of forced, you know, they helped Chinese immigrants, helped build the railroads, and a lot of times they were forced to take those very railroads to go to the East Coast. And they live, you know, Chinatowns were formed as kind of like safe havens because Chinese immigrants felt excluded and attacked by, like, the larger US Society. And I think this. That's an essential part of this case. Like, that wouldn't have happened if Chinatown didn't become this, like, enclave that it did as a result of this racism and exclusion.

[C]

What were some of the challenges you faced in tracking down those people who were involved in this case of. This case of shipping heroin in boxes to women playing mahjong?

[B]

An incredible story. Yeah, I would say it was all challenges. Yeah. Yeah. So I was great because I had a co reporter, her name is Shuyu Wang, who. She's from the same region of China as a lot of people in this story, a little bit outside of Hong Kong. And she's also a lawyer, so. So she kind of, you know, one challenge was the law is very confusing and hard to understand. And another challenge is basically, we had no idea what happened to these people. We just kind of, like, looked them up on the white pages and were knocking on doors. And a lot of times the people who answered the doors didn't speak English. So it was really great to have someone who could translate with me and then also just who believed in the project and would spend all of his time traveling through, you know, all the different Chinatowns that now exist in New York, knocking on doors with me believing that eventually the right door.

[C]

How did the lawyer, first of all, what did she think when you brought the project to her?

[B]

She was really into it because she had actually studied journalism in China and then that she realized that wasn't really a path that she was able to pursue. But I think she kind of still. It kind of like made her this. She was like, this is an opportunity to do journalism again. And then she was also really interested as an immigrant to New York City who was discovering Chinatown. Now, as someone you know, she had been living here for a couple years to learn about Chinatown's history and the experience of immigrants before her.

[C]

How did she handle the people who wanted to talk but didn't feel like they could talk?

[B]

Yeah, I would say we had two main sources. So we spoke to two women who were the, you know, our main. Who received these packages, who. We kind of built the story around Tina and Wa. And I think they were both like, anxious about talking because it's obviously, you know, a really hard time in their lives and they had to make some really tough decisions. Also surprised that we came to find them. And I think that we were very much like, we're gonna come to you and ask you whether you want to talk, but then it's your decision. And I think that they in the end decided that they wanted to share their stories. And I think that does have to do in part because of the connection that they did feel to Beryl. And I think Beryl wouldn't have sent me off to find them if she didn't feel like that connection was mutual and like the story needed to have some sort of ending.

[C]

Let's set the scene for people. Gang activity and gang related violence was huge in 80s Chinatown, as is in most under resourced areas in this country. First of all, what were the factors that led to the escalation that. That it would be this much gang violence in chinatown in the 80s?

[B]

Yeah, I think the, the reason there was so much gang violence was because teens in Chinatown didn't necessarily feel like they had a lot of options for upward mobility or, you know, sometimes because of the language barrier or just having someone before them who had done it or racism. Like, there wasn't a ton of like, job opportunities that felt open. And one way to get a lot of money is to join a gang. Also, I think there was a feeling people talked. A lot of the former gangsters that I interviewed talked about a sense of belonging and being bullied. I Think a lot of them felt bullied for being Chinese, felt like they didn't fit in. And then being a member of this gang, you felt powerful. You felt like you had a sense of belonging. You also were able to get a lot of money. So I feel like that would be very tempting to teenage boys. And then the police and the feds, like, weren't really that interested in what was going on in Chinatown. And for a while, a lot of this gang violence was because it was limited to Chinatown. So it wasn't until it escalated to the point of the drugs coming in and the violence escalating and impacting people who are outside of Chinatown that anything was really being done about it.

[A]

I'm going to get you to explain what was in the boxes that these women received. These women in these mahjong parlors would get these boxes and what was in them.

[B]

So these boxes, I think they weren't all exactly the same, but they contained some variation of stuffed animals, peppers to mask the smell, tea boxes with, like, I think one of the women told me, you know, Chinese lettering on them because she actually, interestingly enough, doesn't speak Chinese because she was born here. And then also millions of dollars worth of heroin.

[A]

Did they know what was in the boxes?

[B]

I mean, that is a key question of the investigation. Right. And there's all different ways of knowing that. There's deciding not to know, and there's literally not knowing. There's knowing that it might be something bad, but deciding to not investigate and just agree to pick up this box in the mail. And then there's literally knowing what was inside of them. I would say it was option two was kind of where most people were landing. Yeah.

[A]

My guest is Lydia Jean Cott. Her new podcast is the Chinatown Sting. All three episodes, the three episodes that are are available where you get your podcast. You have a lot of really colorful characters in the podcast. Tell us a little bit about Onion Head, for example.

[B]

Onion Head. So Onion Head, his name is Johnny Ng. He was one of the main importers of heroin into New York City. He was the head of a gang called the Flying Dragons. And he's a really important character because up until before he took over the gang, the gang really kept it local. So they ran the gambling parlors, they ran the mahjong parlors, they extorted shopkeepers, but that was pretty much all they did. And they engaged in fights with other gangs. That was like, a big activity. But when he took over the gang, he decided he was like, I don't really care. About this inter gang warfare. This gambling money, like, is a lot of money. But I have an idea to, like, I know a way we can make a ton more money because he had connections to the triads in Hong Kong who were bringing in heroin. And he. So basically he was like, let's start bringing in drugs. And he is kind of, you know, became really rich and very successful and very well known in Chinatown. And he was called Onion Head because his hair stood up like an onion.

[A]

He's sort of the focus of episode two. And then there was a person we.

[C]

Meet, and we meet this woman named Tina. What was Tina's involvement?

[B]

Yes. So Tina is one of the main characters of the podcast. Like I said, she's half Portuguese and half Chinese, and she grew up actually a little bit outside of Chinatown. And then as a kid, she kind of got brought into this world of Chinatown, so through her best friend. And her best friend is the person who asked her to receive this package in the mail. And she was one of the women who was held in custody. And she had to make this pivotal decision of whether or not to give up her best friend, who was really key to the investigation, her best childhood friend, basically, or face a much longer prison sentence.

[C]

What were your first impressions about Tina?

[B]

Well, yeah, so me and Shuyu, my co reporter, showed up at her apartment. We brought cookies. I said, because we're coming. So out of the blue, it seemed like we should bring something. And I think the first thing that stuck out to us was she had a parrot, a huge parrot in her apartment. And she told us that her parrot does talk, but it doesn't talk to strangers. And, you know, my mom told me that a lot of times people, how people talk about their pets is really how they talk about themselves.

[C]

Oh, that's interesting.

[B]

Yeah. So that's kind of something I thought a lot about with Tina, where I think she wanted to talk to us, but it took many visits in order for us to not be strangers and.

[A]

Tell us who Wah was.

[B]

Wa is Tina's best friend. Who is. She's part of why I wanted to do this story, because of how Beryl, my boyfriend's mom, talked about Wa. She's this, like, incredibly charismatic woman who everyone knew was the center of life in Chinatown. Beautiful. But it's not even. My boyfriend's mom was like, it's not even just that she's beautiful. It's just like she just makes you feel so alive when you're with her. She's someone who knows what she wants and knows how to get other people to do what she wants. So she's a pretty incredible person. And everyone I know who I mentioned WA to had some sort of. Everyone who I interviewed who mentioned Wa, when I said Wa, they had some sort of reaction.

[A]

In episode three, you spoke with Wa, and it's an exchange, which is pretty funny, and it gives you a look into her personality a little bit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This is Hua talking about how she didn't mind being in jail. This is from the Chinatown sting.

[D]

Oh, I had a good time. Yeah. I had. I tell you, a lot of the officers, they like me, so I got a lot. I got everything I want, you know, and I could tell them to do whatever, you know, some of them, they. They do for me.

[B]

How do you get people to do whatever you want for you?

[D]

Because I'm smart.

[C]

I can convince them, you know, I'm smart.

[B]

She is. And she just makes you feel like when you're with her, like, up is down and down is up. It's, like, so fun and disorienting, you know?

[A]

Beryl referred to her as Wicked Waugh, though she seemed not necessarily wicked per se from me at my point of view, but more like businesslike. In the podcast, what do you think?

[B]

Yeah, I think actually Beryl walked. I think she thought of her as Wicked Waugh until she met her. Yeah. Because before she met her, she was like, who is this woman who has convinced all of these other women to receive these packages in the mail? It's like a very serious offense. They could get in a lot of trouble. They don't have criminal records. Why was she getting them to do this? But then when she met her, I think she felt differently. I think she felt like this is someone who's, you know, really charismatic, actually has a very big heart, you know, and just loves to gamble and take risks and is. Doesn't. You know, I think Beryl said the thing about WA is when she sees a rule, what she thinks about is how to circumnavigate it, which is the opposite of Beryl. But it's definitely intriguing.

[A]

Tina and Wa sound so matter of fact by everything that has happened to them in the podcast. But realistically thinking about it, how did being involved in this activity affect their lives?

[B]

It had a really big. Really big impact on their lives. I mean, Tina had to leave Chinatown, which was, you know, her home. She talked about how afterwards, it took her, I think, about a decade to be able. She had a hard time finding work before all of this happened, because she didn't have a College degree. And then afterwards, because she had been accused, you know, because she had convicted, she had committed a felony, it was even harder. She lost a lot of her friends. So it had a huge. A huge impact on her life. And wa. She's still torn up about it. Like, I felt like we didn't even ask her to walk through the trial with her because I felt like it would be too painful. Like, I think she still has a lot of shame.

[C]

How did Beryl feel after she heard the podcast? Judge Beryl will call her.

[B]

Yeah, Judge Howell. Howell. Sorry. I was really nervous about how she would feel, and I really was hoping that she would feel like I did justice to, you know, the story. She said I did more than justice.

[C]

Oh, that's great.

[B]

Yeah. And I think it was really interesting to her to get to hear from these women who she had been, you know, thinking about all these years later. So I think it felt, like, intense and also intense to be out there in a podcast, because I feel like usually as a judge, she controls the setting completely, and I think giving up that control is pretty intense. But I was really glad that she felt like I did justice to the story.

[C]

What is something or an important thing that you learned when you were reporting this story, either as a journalist or. Or you learned about the history of.

[B]

This area so much? I mean, learning about the history was really important. And I think one thing that I learned about the law that I thought was. I hadn't really thought of it that way is you think of people who are enforcers of justice as being, you know, wanting to be very tough. You talk about being tough on crime, and Barrel is also very scary and intimidating. And, you know, like, when I get in trouble in the household, I go to the. I don't go to Barrel, and neither do the kids. But I think she is less interested. She is tough, but she's less interested in being tough than being fair. And it was really important to her. And I think what she wanted to know is whether the woman in this case felt like they had been treated fairly. Because in order for people to trust the justice system, they need to feel like it's fair. And if people don't trust it, it all falls apart, because you need cooperators, you need people to report crimes, et cetera. And I think in order for someone to feel like they are treated fairly, there needs to be a little bit of empathy and understanding there.

[C]

Do you think this podcast is as much about the true crime story as it is about survival?

[B]

Yes, I think it's about I think it's more about survival and less about the true crime story.

[C]

And what do you hope listeners take away from it?

[B]

Well, I think in their own ways. Beryl, Tina, and Waugh, I worked on this story throughout my 30s, and they've all kind of become role models for me for what sort of woman I want to be and who I hope to grow into. And I hope that people who listen to it also take something away from the three of them because I think there's a lot to admire and learn from how they navigated this really tough situation.

[C]

The name of the podcast is the Chinatown Sting. I've been speaking with Lydia Jean Cott about it. The first three episodes are out now. Wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you for coming in and sharing your story with us.

[B]

Oh my God, thank you so much. It was my pleasure.

[E]

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[F]

In the flesh.

[E]

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[F]

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[E]

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[F]

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[E]

Oh, sorry. Just a little star struck. I'll be on my way.

[F]

If you're gonna stick around, just pull up a chair.

[E]

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[B]

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[G]

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