Scott Dwyer (3:34)

Let's talk about how the Sons of Liberty met there. Scott, what do we know about who met there?

Alison Stewart (3:39)

Do we know what was discussed among.

Scott Dwyer (3:41)

The Sons of Liberty?

Scott Dwyer (3:42)

Well, that's the challenge, because you couldn't just advertise that you were meaning to talk about, hey, revolutionary. So we don't have a lot of documentation on what was discussed then and how it was discussed, but we knew the players, we knew that people were meeting at the tavern. We can make inferences based on Francis's relig relationships with the documentation of people who did come through at some point. So it's some inferences, but, you know, just based on other accounts, we know that they were meeting there.

Scott Dwyer (4:12)

Lisa, what did he think, Samuel, think about having the Sons of Liberty at the tavern? Was he an active supporter of the revolution? Where did he stand?

Lisa Goulet (4:21)

He was certainly a patriot. I think that, you know, Sons of Liberty, they do have a reputation for being a bit too rowdy. Their official headquarters are actually at another tavern that is not notorious for getting raided, where they're kicked out of it prior to everything starting up in the revolution. So, however, there are also a lot of people who would end up being sort of critical leaders in the revolutionary movement, like New Yorker Hercules Mulligan. And this is really the sort of clientele that Francis is catering to. So I think that ultimately he does, you know, he supports them, and they end up, you know, one of the instances where they are at the tavern is they're organiz before the tearing down of the statue of King George III after the Stamp act has come into effect.

Scott Dwyer (5:14)

My guests are Scott Dwyer, executive director of the Fraunces Tavern Museum, and Lisa Goulet, who is the museum's collection manager. We're discussing the new exhibit at the Fraunces Tavern Museum to celebrate the 250th anniversary of the start of The Revolutionary War. It's titled Path to the Emergence of of a Nation. Scott, when the British started making gains in Manhattan, what happened to Fraunces Tavern?

Scott Dwyer (5:38)

Well, you know, the city fell very early in the Revolution in August of 76, where Washington was forced to retreat to fight another day. So the tavern was left in the care of his son when Francis had to evacuate eventually. But he was brought back as an indentured servant of the British and was forced to work in his own tavern as an indentured servant to serve the Brit while they were occupying the city. But fortunately, it survived when a lot of the city burned early in the war. So it survived various onslaughts of physical destruction and people invading it and was the site of great celebration finally, at the end of the war.

Scott Dwyer (6:21)

Yeah. Apparently George Washington had a dinner there. Will you tell us more?

Lisa Goulet (6:26)

Yeah. So at the close of the war, you know, the British have evacuated at the end of November in 1783, and this is cause for a huge celebration. And when Washington returns to New York City, he holds a banquet for his officers at Franz's Tavern on December 4th as his official goodbye. And from there, he departs back home to Mount Vernon.

Scott Dwyer (6:55)

Scott, the exhibit kicks off the 250th anniversary of the Revolutionary War, but I'm told this programming is going to go on for several years.

Scott Dwyer (7:03)

Yes.

Scott Dwyer (7:04)

How is the museum involved in this major anniversary, and what are you going to be doing several years forth?

Scott Dwyer (7:11)

Well, it's twofold. The exhibition is where we'll be highlighting all the events of the revolution in an ongoing rotating basis. So right now, we have 75 and 76 on the walls. And then as we go through the years of the revolution, we'll be taking down objects and replacing them. So you always see something fresh when you come in every, you know, few months, or. No, lisa's G. I would say every year at least. But along with that, we'll also be doing programming to highlight various authors talking about the events and lectures and books that they're coming out with. So it'll be a really interesting focus on the events and individuals throughout the years.

Alison Stewart (7:53)

Lisa, for this exhibit, you got to dig through the archives and look at the museum's collections. What was something that you discovered that you've been telling people about?

Lisa Goulet (8:02)

Yeah, so, I mean, one of my favorite pieces in the entire museum's collection has come out of us scouring through our storage for items that have never been on display before. That is a painting by John Mackie Falconer of Independence House, where he thinks that Thomas Jefferson has drafted the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson was one of five people who were tasked with drafting, but he did the lion's share of the work holed up in a little apartment in the center of Philadelphia at the time. And what Falconer is actually representing in the painting, this is this mid19th century street scene of a very dilapidated 18th century home with a giant sign plastered on it that says Independence House. And it's actually one of up to five sites that at the time, you know, following the war and when ahead of the centennial, we were looking back to commemorating the first, you know, 50 or 100 years post war and celebrating that people were taking advantage of that and claiming that these sites, you know, these historical events happen at these sites. This is one of the five sites. It's ultimately two blocks away from the actual site. But I think that it's a really interesting piece in that, you know, it's someone who was early on interested in historic preservation. He did a whole series of paintings of historic structures and the like. And so he felt it was, you know, to me, it's interesting to consider how he. For this, for him, in the 1850s, this was true. Like this was the site of where Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence. And so I think it's a really interesting snapshot of, you know, the memory of this building at the time.

Alison Stewart (9:54)

Scott, as the exhibit, you know, obviously it starts in Lexington and Concord, but it moves to New York. The Revolutionary War, it moves through New York. Why did the city become so important?

Scott Dwyer (10:07)

Well, it was the major city of the time, as it is today. And so the Declaration was read here shortly after it was published. Washington ordered. He was here at the time. So it was really the site of so much just people voicing their displeasure with how they were being governed against the quite oppressive laws that were coming against them. In a city that was very commerce appropriate, commerce oriented and taxing without representation was blight on everybody's well being. So everything was happening here in the city. And when revolution breaks out, this is where people are coming to express their displeasure.

Alison Stewart (10:57)

Lisa, how do you want to use.

Scott Dwyer (10:59)

This exhibit as a chance to highlight New York's role in the revolution?

Lisa Goulet (11:04)

Yeah, so this is really a great chance, I think we wanted to focus on the main events. And a lot of these are familiar to most people coming in if they've, you know, if they're into history. And so. But we wanted to do it through the lens of what happened in New York specifically, not just in the city, but across the state. And so I'M looking into things that are outside of the purview of that main narrative in terms of geography. And then secondarily, we want to highlight the contributions of New Yorkers or people who were fighting in these New York battles. And so that's another part where I've been digging through our collections and finding pieces that have been rarely used or never used before. We have some extant objects, like Joshua Webster's pistol, who was the ancestor of the donor, but had really minimal documentation with it. And so we got it. This was a good chance to. Then I'm doing biographical research on some of these figures that aren't part of the central group of, let's say, founding fathers or major officers. And so this is where an excellent thing that I want to try and accomplish is expanding the biographical research on a lot of these people who have more of the commonplace artifacts because they represent a lot more of the sort of everyday soldier.

Scott Dwyer (12:27)

Yeah. My guests are Scott Dwyer, executive director of the Fraunces Tavern Museum, and Lisa Goulet, who is the museum's collection manager. We're discussing the new exhibit at the Fraunces Tavern Museum to celebrate the 250th anniversary of the start of the Revolutionary War. It's titled Path to the Emergence of. There are cannonballs that were excavated near Franz's Tavern, but they damaged Franz's Tavern somehow. Could you explain?

Scott Dwyer (12:57)

Yes. So around the Battle of Long island, which was August of 76, the HMS Asia is stationed just outside New York harbor and shoots a cannonball into the city and it lands through the roof of Franz's Tavern. This is a significant event in the tavern's history, just because suddenly the revolution is not just the city, it's on the doorstep, it's through the roof. And so we are going to be talking about that event later this year when we have our anniversary commemoration of that. So look for cannonball cocktails. History. So combining a little bit of flair, a little bit of fun, a little bit of history. But, you know, this is really New York City getting the brunt of artillery fire during that period of the war.

Scott Dwyer (13:43)

You also have in the exhibit, Lisa, Nathan Hales.

Lisa Goulet (13:47)

Yes.

Scott Dwyer (13:47)

You have a letter from him. I believe he was hanged in New York. Is that right?

Lisa Goulet (13:51)

He was hanged.

Scott Dwyer (13:52)

I remember being hanged. So what does this letter say?

Lisa Goulet (13:56)

This is, as far as we know, the last known letter of Nathan Hale. And it's written about a week, week and a half before the Battle of Long Island. So it's a letter to his brother Enoch back in Connecticut, and he's sort of recounting in it all of this ferv of activity that is happening in preparation for something over the summer of 76. You know, the British and American forces both recognize that New York as a major port is really critical to whatever side's success. And so Nathan is there before the battle starts, kind of fortifying, helping to fortify the city. He's part of an intelligence unit that is sort of scanning the city and waterways. And he also details an event, an engagement, where Americans tried to set fire to a British warship in it. And then he, I think, kind of concludes on a bit of an optimistic note. He's saying he's incredibly busy, but, you know, he thinks that we're going to prevail. However, unfortunately, immediately after the Battle of Long Island, Nathan Hale volunteers to remain behind after the British have taken it and act as a spy. And he's unfortunately discovered a few weeks later and then hanged in late September. But he becomes a martyr figure for the movement, and that's sort of how he's now remembered and rose to prominence that way.

Scott Dwyer (15:30)

Another interesting artifact in the exhibit is a piece of fence from Bowling Green. Tell us why this piece of wood is so significant.

Scott Dwyer (15:39)

SCOTT well, there's two artifacts, a piece of wood and the piece of the fence. The piece of the fence, the fence is around Bowling Green. It's the fence that surrounds the statue of King George, which is toppled after the Declaration is read in the city. It's the site of, you know, where people are coming together to declare independence and declare their grievances, and, you know, that the king's reign is no more here in the city. So that piece comes from the original fence. I believe the fence was torn down and then reconfigured to what we have today that you can still see. But that piece comes from the original fence as it was being torn down to start a revolution.

Alison Stewart (16:26)

LISA as you mentioned, there's art in this as well, but there's a piece of work which is kind of interesting because it's the depiction of the Battle of Brooklyn, but it was made in Europe. So what does this work of art tell us about the preconceived notions that Europeans had about the colonies?

Lisa Goulet (16:45)

Yeah. So we have this really interesting print showing the British disembarkation onto Manhattan island by a German printer originally. And it's a perspective view, which was a type of fairly cheap entertainment intended for mass distribution. They're sort of like, really quickly sketched together and then colored in with a watercolor wash that's pretty splotchy and bright, right? And people would. Would have parties in their homes or traveling presenters would show these shows. And it was almost a way to keep up with current events because a lot of the time it depicted somewhat current events. But this scene in particular I love because the printer, he's someone who's never been to America and he's getting all of his information about the disembarkation from, I'm sure, correspondence and newspaper accounts on the continent and. But his scene has to then be a scene of. It is wholly imagined. And what it looks like is sort of this orderly descent of the troops off of a ship at a very. Like a very well manicured dock showing a European urban center which looked nothing like Kips Bay at the time, which was really a rough riverbed. And what actually happened was that the British stationed three massive warships and they were bombarding the side of the river while smaller boats of troops sort of stormed the shore, taking a lot of the military by surprise who were hanging out in readouts in a ditch like these temporary fortifications. So it's a really, really interesting sort of fantastical scene.

Alison Stewart (18:51)

I'm having a Hamilton moment. Let's talk about some of the other things you're going to be having at the museum. What can visitors expect?

Scott Dwyer (19:01)

Well, if you're coming for this special exhibition, you'll see all of our permanent galleries and all of our other exhib. We are famous for our Long Room, Washington's farewell site on the second floor. But more recently we've opened two other permanent galleries. One is Governoring the Nation, which talks about the tavern's time as the first executive federal government office building where the Departments of War, Foreign affairs and the Board of Treasury were all stationed while New York City was the capital between 1785 and 88. And then most recently we reopened our Birch Trials at Fraunces Tavern, which talks about the site of the tavern being where a group of British and American soldiers formed a commission to evaluate whether black Loyalists could evacuate with the rest of the British army based on claims of freedom that they had been given during the war, but came into conflict at the end of the war when the Treaty of Paris had language that was preventing them from leaving in a lot of cases. So we're talking about that in our permanent gallery. Then the rest are our Flag Gallery, which talks about regimental war flags from across regiments in the US and then of course our George Washington Portrait Gallery which has various images of Washington throughout his career in various different themes.

Scott Dwyer (20:17)

The name of the big exhibition is Path to the Emergence of a nation on the 250th anniversary of the start of the Revolutionary War. Scott Dwyer and Lisa Goulet have been my guests. Thank you for being with us.

Scott Dwyer (20:31)

Thank you.

Lisa Goulet (20:31)

Thank you so much for having us.

Progressive Insurance (20:33)

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