Podcast Summary: All Of It – "NYC As Canvas: How Robert Rauschenberg Saw New York"

Date: October 22, 2025
Host: Alison Stewart (A)
Guest: Sean Cochran (B), Senior Curator of Prints and Photographs at the Museum of the City of New York
Topic: The exhibit "Robert Rauschenberg’s New Pictures from the Real World" and the artist's photographic vision of New York City

Overview

This episode spotlights Robert Rauschenberg’s deep, often overlooked engagement with photography, focusing on a new exhibit at the Museum of the City of New York. Host Alison Stewart speaks with curator Sean Cochran about how Rauschenberg documented a rapidly changing city, innovated across art mediums, and used both personal and urban themes to create a unique artistic legacy. The conversation dives into the artist’s process, the evolution of his work, and the way his photographs reveal interlinked stories of New York and himself.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Rauschenberg’s Legacy and Influence

• Rule-Breaker and Innovator:
  • “He broke all the rules allowing future generations to break the rules to have artistic freedom. And that's really, I think, his legacy…” (Sean Cochran, 02:22)
• Photographic Practice as Core to His Art:
  • While Rauschenberg was known for painting and mixed media, photography was a constant, foundational part of his process. He both made his own photos and appropriated press/magazine imagery, especially for silk screens.
  • “Photography was there throughout and really an overlooked, essential part of his work…” (B, 03:57)

Origins and Artistic Development

• Early Experiments and Influences:
  • Rauschenberg’s first wife, Susan Weil, introduced him to cyanotypes, leading to their first exhibited works in 1951 at MoMA.
  • At Black Mountain College, he studied photography with Hazel Larson Archer, Harry Callahan, and Aaron Siskind, fostering a deep interest in the medium.
  • “That work was exhibited in Photography and Abstraction at Museum of modern art in 1951…” (B, 05:12)

The Styles and Substance of Rauschenberg’s Photography

• What Makes a Rauschenberg Photo Unique?

  • Attentive observation, spotlighting the overlooked or discarded artifacts of city life.
  • “He slowed down and tried to look hard and look at what was often overlooked or discarded or kind of abandoned and bring attention to it and think about what that meant about New York and what it meant about society.” (B, 06:22)

• Distinct from Traditional Street Photography

  • Unlike contemporaries focused on candid human interactions (e.g., Winogrand, Meyerowitz), Rauschenberg was interested in the remnants of humanity – signs, litter, marks left behind.
  • “He was more interested in the markers of humanity… the kind of things people left behind that signify their culture.” (B, 07:21)

Exhibit Structure

• Three Thematic Sections (08:23)
  1. Early Photographs (1950–1965)
     • Square-format, personal, focusing on friends and influential figures (e.g., Susan Weil, Cy Twombly, Jasper Johns, Merce Cunningham).
     • Experimentation with form, motion, abstraction.
  2. In and Out City Limits (1979)
     • More impersonal, exploring urban symbols, signs, and layers of cultural meaning in New York.
     • Example: Photograph of the Pegasus Mobil sign surrounded by city architecture — “layers of potential meaning.” (B, 11:07)
  3. Photograph in Painting
     • How Rauschenberg mixed photography into his painting practice, notably through silk-screening.

Rauschenberg’s Changing Relationship with NYC

• Early years: Lived in Seaport area cold water flats, rare and personal perspectives of a postwar city (12:21).
• Later years: Success and ability to buy a Lafayette Street home, photographs centering on downtown Manhattan’s energy and transformation.
• Neighborhood Specificity: Studios and photos predominantly in lower Manhattan; buildings often now demolished (B, 12:21).

Black and White Preference

• Artistic Rationale:
  • "He did not really favor color because he thought that they were less open to interpretation..." (B, 12:58)

Artist’s Transformation

• Struggling to Celebrated:
  • Early poverty led to the invention—combines of found materials, rules broken out of necessity before later collaborations and greater experimentation (“restless artist”).
  • “That poverty, frankly, led to invention. He...found objects, which he would eventually create combines. These combine sculptural paintings…” (B, 14:02)

Break from Photography and Use of Found Imagery

• Camera theft in 1967 (likely on the subway) led Rauschenberg to rely more on magazine imagery for his work (B, 15:24)—a practical and creative pivot.

Enduring Curiosity and Restlessness

• Never static: Through success and struggle, Rauschenberg exemplified constant artistic curiosity, resulting in new forms, mediums, and collaborations.
• “He would never cease to experiment, that no matter where he was...he was creative and he would use the materials available to express that creativity…” (B, 16:24)

New York as Artistic Subject and Muse

• The exhibit is as much about the changing face of New York as it is about Rauschenberg’s journey.
• “You’ll see again that kind of struggling artist and his inner circle…And then later you see a city kind of picking itself up from the 'Ford to City: Drop Dead' moment, and a city kind of beginning to find itself…” (B, 17:15)
• The dual lens: Learning about both the artist and the city, reflected back and forth through the selected images.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “He broke all the rules allowing future generations to break the rules to have artistic freedom.”
  — Sean Cochran (02:22)

• “He was more interested in the markers of humanity, the moments of...the remnants of human presence, the kind of things people left behind that signify their culture.”
  — Sean Cochran (07:21)

• “That poverty, frankly, led to invention...He couldn't afford canvas and paint, so he walked around the streets of New York and found objects, which he would eventually create combines.”
  — Sean Cochran (14:02)

• “You learn a lot about New York, but then you learn a lot about the artist, but then you learn a lot about New York.”
  — Alison Stewart (18:08), summing up the layered takeaways of the exhibit.

• “Every...when we look at photographers, they always have a personal perspective, and that intersection is what really makes art and it makes looking at photographs so interesting.”
  — Sean Cochran (18:15)

Recommended Segments & Timestamps

• Rauschenberg’s rule-breaking legacy — (02:22)
• Photographic practice and evolution — (03:57, 04:41, 05:12)
• The three exhibit sections explained — (08:23)
• Discussion of “In and Out City Limits” & cultural symbols — (11:04)
• Neighborhood focus and studio locations — (12:21)
• Artist’s transformation and emergence of combines — (14:02)
• Shift to found imagery after camera theft — (15:24)
• Enduring restlessness and curiosity — (16:24)
• Layered insights about NYC and the artist — (17:15, 18:08)

Final Reflection

This episode offers listeners a vivid entrée into both Rauschenberg’s singular vision and postwar New York’s shifting landscape. With passionate expertise, Sean Cochran illuminates how Rauschenberg’s photographs capture a city filtered through the eyes of an ever-experimenting, ever-questioning artist—making “Robert Rauschenberg’s New Pictures from the Real World” as much about the evolution of self as it is about the changing city as canvas.