"Oh, Mary!" on Broadway — All Of It with Alison Stewart

Podcast: All Of It
Host: Alison Stewart (WNYC)
Guests: Conrad Rickamora (actor, "Abraham Lincoln"), Sam Pinkleton (director)
Air Date: July 16, 2024

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the buzzworthy Broadway transfer of "Oh Mary!", the riotous and surreal new comedy about Mary Todd Lincoln’s wild aspirations and her tumultuous marriage to Abraham Lincoln. Host Alison Stewart sits down with director Sam Pinkleton and lead actor Conrad Rickamora to discuss the process of bringing this hit show from Off-Broadway to the Lyceum Theatre, its boundary-pushing blend of absurdity and sincerity, and what it means to make people laugh in tumultuous times.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Genesis and Tone of "Oh Mary!"

• The play centers on Mary Todd Lincoln as a "lush with a snarky streak and a dream: to become a cabaret star," while Abraham Lincoln is depicted as both a war-time president and a man wrestling with repressed desire. (01:34)
• Writers and creative team chose not to make it mere parody or sketch comedy. Instead, the script was praised for hilarious but heartfelt storytelling and solid dramatic structure.
  • Sam Pinkleton:

    "It's not just a spoof... It's a beautifully constructed play about a woman who wants something so bad and a man, Abe Lincoln, who has enormous pressure on him and can't be himself." (04:23)

2. First Impressions of the Script

• Both Conrad and Sam recall literally laughing out loud upon their first reads.
  • Sam Pinkleton:

    "It's the only time I've ever read a play and laughed out loud, like, howling with laughter reading the play." (03:18)

  • Conrad Rickamora:

    "I was just giggling like an idiot, and my husband looked at me and was like, what is. What is going on? ... It was the first time I was dying laughing from just reading something." (03:41)

3. Balancing Farce and Seriousness

• The cast and crew approached the story’s outlandishness with gravity, pulling comedy from real predicaments rather than playing for cheap laughs.
  • Conrad Rickamora:

    "To me... it is deadly serious. The best comedies that I like are people that are in the biggest predicaments... it not only causes you to laugh, but it also pierces you, like, through your heart." (05:56)

4. Bringing "Oh Mary!" to Broadway

• The move from Off-Broadway to Broadway meant embracing the larger space but retaining the play’s integrity and heart.
  • Sam Pinkleton:

    "The job going to Broadway was just about honestly, like, reconnecting to the truth of it, taking it even more seriously than we took it downtown... It wasn't like, hey, play to the rafters." (06:53)

  • The visual scale increased (notably more creative lighting), but the core stayed consistent. (08:07)

5. Portraying Abraham Lincoln

• While Lincoln is traditionally played as soft-spoken, Rickamora’s version involves a lot of yelling, requiring dedicated vocal maintenance.
  • Conrad Rickamora:

    "Doing a lot of repetitive, boring work makes you great... The same way that doing those hours laying on your back in a studio allows you to exist on stage and be free." (08:54)

6. The Play’s Structure & Humor

• Instead of disconnected gags, the show follows a tightly plotted, old-fashioned arc, which enables actors to play both the comedy and the truth of their characters.
  • Sam Pinkleton:

    "Cole Escola has created a structure that is just airtight. It's thrilling. It's like an old fashioned play... It's kind of an Old fashioned play that has all of this icing on it that is shocking and hilarious and contemporary and perverse. But the bones are so good..." (10:30)

7. Lincoln and Mary: Relationship & Character Motivations

• Lincoln’s manipulativeness and deep connection to Mary, who represents his lost carefree self, make for both comedic tension and emotional depth.
  • Conrad Rickamora:

    "Mary... reminds Abe of a carefree, whimsical time... Which is why he loves and loathes her so much... He's taken on the responsibility of being the president during the worst crisis in our nation's history." (11:55)

8. Dealing with Queerness in the Narrative

• Lincoln's queerness is treated with loving humor rather than mockery.
  • Conrad Rickamora:

    "Well, I'm queer. So as me, Conrad Rickamura... My radar for it being mean or damaging is higher than anyone else's... I trust Cole's sensibility and I also trust my own sensibility." (13:15)

  • Sam Pinkleton:

    "The play and Cole's work and the work of everybody working on the show is deeply loving... It's a world of deeply flawed people. But like, so is the world we live in." (14:07)

9. Physical Comedy & Staging

• Physical humor is grounded in logical, character-driven storytelling rather than mere slapstick.
  • Sam Pinkleton:

    "We just have such a high regard for like, real physical comedy... And the best of that comedy comes from truth.... All of the physical comedy came from real problem solving and storytelling." (15:36)

• Conrad admits he broke character during early rehearsals but now experiences the part through Lincoln’s eyes.
  • Conrad Rickamora:

    "In the first couple of weeks... I was having a hard time with breaking because I find Cole to be so funny. But then... Now it's like I don't even worry about it anymore." (16:52)

10. Iconic Details: The Wig

• Cole Escola’s Mary sports an intentionally over-the-top wig, now an iconic part of the production.
  • Sam Pinkleton:

    "[Cole] was really fierce that it should look like a wig and it should be ridiculous, but we should also feel like she chose this. Like, this is how she wants to look... Cole lovingly talks about the bratty curls and yeah, it's sort of accidentally become iconic." (17:40)

11. The Difficulty of Comedy

• The most challenging scenes required deep work to find emotional authenticity beneath the absurdity—most notably, the climactic saloon scene.
  • Conrad Rickamora:

    "The last scene in the saloon... it was, I feel like that one kind of bottling up everything that is simmering in the pot... The temperature is so hot at that point that putting it back in the pot was difficult for a couple of weeks." (18:45)

12. Comedy’s Role in Turbulent Times

• Both guests reflect on the redemptive, communal function of making audiences laugh amid crisis.
  • Sam Pinkleton:

    "The feeling of sitting in the Lyceum every night for the last three weeks and feeling 900 people roar with laughter has felt more restorative than anything I could have anticipated about bringing this play to Broadway. It feels like relief." (21:31)

  • Conrad Rickamora:

    "Every time I've met somebody that has seen the show, they've just come up to me and said, thank you for making me laugh for 80 minutes. I really needed it." (22:50)

13. The Many Meanings of "Oh, Mary!"

• The title’s inflection changes meaning—wonder, exasperation, surprise.
  • Conrad Rickamora:

    "Because it is such a surprise that we are even on Broadway. It's 'oh, Mary!'" (23:41)

  • Sam Pinkleton:

    "There's only one way to say it, and it's the way that Conrad says it in the third scene. But now I can't remember how you say it. It's perfect, though." (23:51)

  • Conrad Rickamora:

    "You'll have to buy a ticket and come find out." (24:07)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Sam Pinkleton on first reading the script (03:18):

  "I've never laughed so hard reading something."

• Conrad Rickamora on acting philosophy (05:56):

  "The best comedies... are people that are in the biggest predicaments... it not only causes you to laugh, but it also pierces you, like, through your heart at the same time."

• Sam Pinkleton on comedy’s healing power today (21:31):

  "Comedy is always, like, the number one thing to save us. Always, always, always."

• Conrad Rickamora on the audience response (22:50):

  "Thank you for making me laugh for 80 minutes. I really needed it."

• On whether the show is mean-spirited (13:15):

  "I live it every day." (Rickamora, on being gay and playing Lincoln’s queerness honestly)

• On the iconic wig (17:40):

  "Cole lovingly talks about the bratty curls and yeah, it's sort of accidentally become iconic."

• On the title’s many meanings (23:41):

  "It's 'oh, Mary!'" (Rickamora, expressing surprise at the show’s Broadway run)

Highlighted Timestamps

• 03:13 — First impressions and laughter over the script
• 04:23 — Director’s priorities: honor the story’s depth
• 05:56 — Rickamora on Lincoln’s predicament and acting approach
• 06:53 — Broadway transfer: What changed and what stayed
• 10:30 — Structure and plotting: More than skits
• 13:15 — Navigating jokes about Lincoln’s sexuality
• 15:36 — The logic of physical comedy and slapstick
• 18:45 — The difficulty of landing the final saloon scene
• 21:31 — Comedy as cultural relief
• 23:41 — The meaning behind "Oh, Mary!"

Conclusion

This episode offers a lively, insightful conversation about “Oh Mary!” as a zany-yet-moving addition to Broadway. Pinkleton and Rickamora reveal how serious artistry, respect for character, and the healing magic of laughter combine in this production. Whether or not you’re familiar with American history or the real Mary and Abraham, as Stewart says, you’ll walk away with a deeper appreciation for how intelligent, serious comedy can bring an audience together—especially when the stakes are high, both on and off the stage.