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- [00:06]
A
This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Happy Thanksgiving, everyone. We know you've been planning your feasts for a while and today's the day. At this point, you might be putting the finishing touches on your holiday dining room or dealing with a last minute side dish emergency. The holidays can be a lot of work, so. So to help keep your energy up until dinner time, we've got some music to keep you going. We'll hear songs from the singer songwriter Uwade, whose work is inspired by the Greek literature she's studying for her classics doctorate. We'll also hear music from Samya's new album Bloodless. And the cast of the new musical the Seat of Our Pants will share some tracks from the show as well. But first, a little indie rock throwback. Almost 20 years ago, OK Go revolutionized music videos for their song Here It Goes Again. I mean, who couldn't stop watching four band members dancing and gliding on treadmills all in one take? Well, now you can watch them gliding around an airplane cabin in zero gravity with precision choreography and one take camera work like in their video Upside down and Inside Out. OK Go released its fifth album called and the Adjacent Possible, and the band visited us to play some live music in our studios. So let's get into my conversation with OK go's Damian Kulash, Tim Norwind, Dan Konopka and Andy Ross. They started with a song from the new album called A Stone Only Rolls Downhill. Let's listen.
- [01:46]
B
Shall we do it?
- [01:46]
A
Yeah, let's do it.
- [01:47]
B
1, 2, 3, 3, 2.
- [01:53]
C
I wish I could say it would all be all right.
- [02:00]
D
It'll all be all right.
- [02:02]
C
I wish I could tell you it would all be fine.
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D
It'll all be just fine.
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C
But I Stone only roads downhill. These.
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D
We.
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C
Will. Someday soon you look out for from your hilltop perch your heart worn out from trying to make sense of the art which only bends one way. You rightly afraid it don't seem to be the way you thought. And I wish I could say it would all be all right.
- [03:17]
D
It'll all be all right.
- [03:20]
C
I wish I could tell you it'll all be fine It'll all be just fine. But the stone only rolls downhill. These things there'll be one day will what they will but oh, the inertia of a ravenous sp up the rest of our selfishness it was just too much to overcome. Now we're overrun and I wish I could say it would all be all right.
- [04:10]
D
It'll all be all right.
- [04:13]
C
Wish I Could tell you it will all be fine It'll all be just fine oh, how I wish I could say could tell you it would be all right could tell you it'll all be fine It'll work out I wish I could tell you oh, how I wish I could tell you I'll be fine It'll all be just fine oh, how I wish I could sing could tell you it would be all right Good night. Tell you it'll all be fine It'll work out I wish I could tell you How I wish I could tell you in law I'll be fine It'll all be just fine It'll all be just fine.
- [05:04]
A
My guests are ok. Go. That was great.
- [05:08]
B
Thanks.
- [05:09]
A
So when did you start to make this album, Damian?
- [05:12]
B
We started writing these songs, believe it or not, about six, seven years ago. Yeah, it's been a long time because we toured a lot on our last record. We made a lot of very elaborate, time consuming videos. Then we stopped for Andy to have kids. And then I had kids, or actually our wives had kids and we wanted to stay home for a lot of that. Then there was the pandemic. Then my wife and I directed a film together for Apple. And so that took up two years. And the next thing you know, it had been almost 10 years since we released a record, but we had. We'd been writing and recording the whole time. So it really gave the song like a lot. A lot of time to grow and change and be revised. It was great.
- [05:54]
A
Tim, what was it like to go back and to hear the songs after they had been worked on for so many years?
- [06:00]
D
I mean, it was great to just be able to have some perspective. Yeah, this is the most time we've ever had, really, to just incubate the songs and that's. I don't know, that's. As musicians, as songwriters, that's a total gift, you know.
- [06:15]
E
All right, who had kids?
- [06:16]
A
You had kids. And I also had kids.
- [06:18]
B
Yeah.
- [06:19]
E
Come a little closer to the microphone, friend.
- [06:20]
B
Sorry.
- [06:22]
A
So being a parent, how did that.
- [06:23]
E
Change the way you thought about the music, the way you thought about the band?
- [06:28]
D
I mean, it certainly changed the way we thought about touring and being out of town and, you know, just being away from them. And so, you know, our touring schedule is like a little bit lighter. But I think. I mean, I think some of the songs are definitely about this experience and, you know, Damon can speak more to that. But it's. I think some of the songs are pointing to that and they came out really great.
- [06:51]
A
That's Andy, by the way.
- [06:52]
B
Yeah. Having kids made life fresh again all over the place. And I'm sure you've heard a million parents say this, but it's like you're told that you will see the world again through your kids eyes.
- [07:08]
A
I guess.
- [07:08]
B
I guess I wasn't prepared for the feeling that emotions I knew so well would be reborn and rediscovered. I mean, the song Love, which we'll play soon, is about that. It's about holding my 3 year old hand and feeling an emotion that I have had so many times, but having it so fresh and so it's like that, that childhood dream where you're in your. I'm sorry, that dream where you're in your childhood home and then there's a new door that opens up to like, you know, airplane hangar or a museum or some huge place. It felt like that. And it's made me appreciate art and music and everything in life in a whole new way again.
- [07:53]
A
I'm thinking about little kids. Tim, you met Damian when you guys were like 11ish?
- [07:57]
D
Yeah, we met Interlaken. We met at a camp called Interlaken. I'm wearing the sweatshirt today. But yes, we were 11 years old and super into music even at that point.
- [08:11]
B
Yeah, it's so crazy to think how long it's been going on. And it's crazy to watch our kids near the age when we met.
- [08:17]
A
Oh wow.
- [08:18]
B
Wow.
- [08:19]
A
When you were kid Tim, did you think, this is my musical friend, this is my friend who I'm gonna share music with or was it just like two guys who hung out at camp?
- [08:30]
B
I'm not sure there was much of a distinction at that age. Like what was so wonderful about that place? It was an arts camp with kind of a focus on music. Back then at least. Was that it it for me it was like taking off the space helmet you wore the rest of the year. You know, it's like you go there for eight weeks in the summer and all the other kid were kids were art nerds like you. Like everybody was weird and everybody was really passionate about the stuff they made. And so even at 11, it was like we weren't, you know, we weren't studied musicians. We were just there because we. We wanted to be around creativity and to find other people who felt that way just. It changed everything.
- [09:10]
D
I think even then though, we thought we'd probably be doing this as adults.
- [09:15]
B
Yeah, I mean that's the other thing is like to wind up being. To spend your life chasing music, you have to be a little bit diluted. In the first place. So it's like at age 11, that was certainly, like. It was a real possibility. Of course we'll be in a rock band. We hadn't learned to be realistic yet.
- [09:30]
A
So, Dan, why are you in this rock band?
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C
Well, I was told.
- [09:37]
B
I said, you gotta hang out with the smartest people, you know? So I'm, like, kind of stoked that I get to be around these super creative guys. I'm on a great ride with this kind of passion and inspiration. So, yeah.
- [09:50]
A
My guest. Holding it down. My guests are Damien, Tim, Dan, and Andy. Of course, they make up. Okay, Go. They're performing some from their new sort of a. An acoustic set, shall we say?
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B
Yeah.
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A
Is it difficult to perform it acoustically?
- [10:05]
B
The songs are very different acoustic, but it's. But it also makes them. I mean, it's like, it's nice to discover them in a different way.
- [10:13]
A
All right, after the break, we're going to hear another song from ok, Go. This is all of it. You're listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Let's return to our conversation with the band. Ok, Go. Before the break, we heard a song from their latest album called and the Adjacent Possible. But now we'll get back into it with a track that the band said they wanted to play because, quote, we figured we should play at least something people have heard before.
- [10:52]
B
This is called this two Shall Pass. It's an old. We figured we should play at least something people have heard before.
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A
Let's do it.
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C
If there ain't not that much to love around. Better run like hell when you hit the ground. When the morning comes. When the morning comes. You can stop these kids from dancing. Why would you want to? Especially when you're already getting your first? Cuz if your mind don't move. Please don't f. Don't go blaming the kids again. When the morning comes. When the morning comes. When the morning comes. When the morning comes. When the morning comes. When the morning comes. Let it go this too shall pass. Let it go this you shall. Keep letting it get you down. You get to town. If there ain't not that much to ride around if they can't get the. Let me get you down. Keep letting me get you down. No, you can't keep letting it. When the morning can't keep letting it get you down. No, you can't keep letting it. When the morning come. Keep letting me let you down. No, you can't keep letting it. When the morning come Keep letting me get you down now you can't keep flattening when the morning comes.
- [13:58]
A
That'S OK. Go. Performing in WNYC's Studio 5. It's interesting hearing a quote unquote old song performed, because I'm wondering, Damien, how much has your songwriting changed from, let's say, your first album to this album?
- [14:17]
B
I think the thing that's changed the most is I think we've given over more to the idea that we're not really in control of it, that it. I think we believed 20 years ago that you. That we would think about an idea and then figure out a way to make a song about it. And now it's much more the other way around, that it's sort of like we're playing around with sounds and chords and melodies and beats and textures and looking for the moments where something is magical, where something is more than the sum of its parts. Like, suddenly you're not having sounds, you're having emotions. And those sparks are few and far between, and getting them to sort of glow into the ember of a whole part and then the sort of big fire of a whole song is hard. And only then are we able to sort of, like, pull out what it might mean. You know, it's like. It's much more about chasing this feeling than it is about trying to say something.
- [15:14]
A
So many times writers will tell me that they kind of give up to the voice, give up to the vibe coming to them. Does that happen to you when you write?
- [15:21]
B
Oh, absolutely. I mean, I think, you know, the flip side of the sort of, like, it's all been done before. I mean, there's only 12 notes kind of thing is that it really is all out there. These are all geometric, physical relationships of waves in air. And the ways that they combined to make reverberations that cause you to have emotions. It just never stops being crazy and magical to me. That's why we named our album the Adjacent Possible. Was that the feeling that you could have these, like, basic physical things that turn into emotions, that they cause the adjacent possible of human emotion, it just never stops being magical to me.
- [16:11]
A
Tim, can you tell the difference in either the songwriting or the sound from the first album to this album?
- [16:18]
D
I definitely can tell a difference. Yeah. I mean, I think we were working in a much more traditional. Like, we have a guitar. We're gonna try to write a song on the guitar. You know, I remember when I was little, my sister gave me an acoustic guitar with a broken bridge, and you couldn't tune it. And that was the first Time I ever tried to write a song, you know, and I would just, like, kind of bang on it, and it was so fun. And that's so much more what it's like to write songs nowadays, you know, it's just like playing with sounds and rhythms and beats and sonics until you've got something that just makes like, yeah, that sounds awesome, you know? And so, yes, I think we've gotten much further away from, like, traditional songwriting and much more into, like, an experimentation place. That's super fun, Damien.
- [17:02]
A
That sounds like fun.
- [17:03]
B
What do you just describe, you know, where our. It's kind of like, if it's not fun, why would you be doing it? And in fact, I don't. You know, one where those balls of emotion that I keep talking about, like, they don't. They're completely subjective. Like, they don't happen as a matter of course. Like, one song can mean the world to me and mean nothing to you. And so if these. If these, like, little universes that we're creating aren't actually fun and compelling and exciting for us, then what would be the point, you know? And I do think that, like, learning music theory and learning how to play your instrument and everything that feels like the path when you're young. And it is an important path, but it's also like, the same three chords have been in all the best songs and all the worst songs. And, like, figuring out how they relate to each other will only get you so far. Like, you have to discover it like a little child again.
- [17:56]
A
You know, it's funny because I was writing this sentence, okay, go. Visual sensibility is. And I was. First I put important, essential. And I said, well, I don't want to assume that. Is it important? Is it essential, Your visual component, the videos, et cetera.
- [18:11]
B
It is a gift that we get to do that. I mean, it depends if you ask business people, yeah, it's essential. It's like an essential part of the band's identity and therefore brand and all that kind of like. But for us, it's like it's just back to play again. It's that most of creativity is enabled by logistics and hard work and all the sort of, like, rote stuff you have to do all the time. And those little moments when you get to really play and discover and find something that makes you feel like it's worth being alive in this world and these. And it's all bigger than we are, and it's magical and wonderful. Those are just as easily found in science projects and in, you know, like, weird contraptions that you can film and in film in general. And so, like, when we kind of hacked into this place where us doing ridiculous dances went viral, we realize that, like, we're now that video band, and that means we get to just, like, make films the way we make music. And it has been nothing but a gift.
- [19:18]
A
Is anybody a film major, a semiotics major, any of that stuff?
- [19:21]
B
I was, in fact, a semiotics major. I didn't. And I remember, like, everybody's hands pointed at you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was, a semiotics major. And I remember, like, for the first five or ten years out of school, like, interviews would be like. Because the band had just started, and people would be like, what is semiotics? And I would just be like, it's basically, like, the best way to knock. Have a job, you know, like. But. And the funniest thing is that now I realize, wait, I'm actually basically doing what I studied.
- [19:47]
A
It's.
- [19:47]
B
You know, semiotics is the study of signs and symbols and meaning, and it's sort of like, it. While it doesn't. You know, that's not writing pop songs, sort of pulling them apart and going, like, do we get to make a video for this, too? Like, can we be the people who. Who build the. The robots and mirrors Gauntlet in. In Budapest for our music videos? Like, that comes directly from that sort of, like, tradition of just of, like, loving why it's made and where it's come from.
- [20:16]
A
Is there anything that's on your sort of video, your semiotic list that you want to include that you haven't been able to yet? Anybody?
- [20:27]
B
You know what? The Boy Boy. The Diary of David Holtzman's Diary. It's good. Great experimental film From, I'm guessing late 60s, early 70s. It's like this filmmaker tries to find truth by filming himself, and it all goes horribly awry. It's like a mockumentary. It's really great. It's really great.
- [20:53]
A
You're gonna play one more song for us. It's love. Is that correct?
- [20:57]
B
It is, in fact, love.
- [20:58]
A
You want to tell me a little bit about it before we hear it?
- [21:01]
B
This. This is like, the one that I think gets at the heart of where we are as humans right now, because it really is about new life after having kids. And I guess it's just. I can't believe that we are little balls of matter floating around in emptiness that get to have this kind of meaning and emotion and connection. It feels like.
- [21:33]
A
So.
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B
So unlikely and so beautiful.
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A
And Wonderful this is OK go.
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B
1, 2.
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C
Falls on your eyes and the dance starts again and in this grand ballroom of nothingness your hands are warm with somethingness we swirl and whirl the music's invented again in this grand ballroom of nothingness we soar, we sail to the only song there's ever been Love the only song that's ever felt just begun love the only song that's ever been. This love. How marvelous just to be anything Circling the hall to divine harmony.
- [23:56]
A
And in.
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C
This crown ball nothingness your hands are warm with something that we swirl and furn Music's invented again in this grand ballroom of nothingness we soar, we sail to the only song that's ever filled love the only song there's ever been Just begun love the only song that's ever been Love the only song that's ever been Never end love love. Get such st. With such modest hands through our glad.
- [25:33]
A
That was my conversation with Damian Kulash, Tim Norwin, Dan Konopka and Andy Ross. They make up OK Go. Their new album is called and the adjacent possible. Up next, Nigerian American singer songwriter Uwa Deh will share some cuts from her debut album and talk about how it has been influenced by her pursuit of a PhD in the classics. This is all of it.
- [26:11]
E
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