Podcast Summary: All Of It – "Our Ancestors Were Messy" Podcast Transforms Historical Black Newspaper Gossip Columns
Introduction to the Episode In this engaging episode of All Of It, hosted by Alison Stewart on WNYC, the conversation delves into the intriguing world of historical African American newspaper gossip columns. The episode, titled "'Our Ancestors Were Messy' Podcast Transforms Historical Black Newspaper Gossip Columns," explores how these gossip pages, often viewed as mere guilty pleasures, serve as powerful indicators of societal values and the personal lives of black elites post-Civil War.
Introducing the Guest: Nicole Hill Alison Stewart welcomes Nicole Hill, the host and producer of the podcast Our Ancestors Were Messy. Nicole is an award-winning producer, also known for her work on The Secret Adventures of Black People. She explains her passion for uncovering the nuanced and often untold stories of African American history through these historical gossip columns.
Discovery of Black Newspaper Gossip Pages Nicole shares her journey of discovering these rich historical records. While researching gentrification in Washington, D.C., she stumbled upon the Library of Congress's digital archives, which housed tens of thousands of African American newspapers dating back to the 1860s. This treasure trove of information vividly captured snapshots of black life during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, inspiring her to create a podcast that brings these stories to life.
"I started skimming through them and found that the images of black life that I was looking for are perfectly captured in these little snapshots in these newspapers." [04:09]
Conceptualizing the Podcast: "Our Ancestors Were Messy" Nicole's podcast aims to humanize historical figures by showcasing their imperfections and personal dramas. She emphasizes that understanding these messy aspects makes ancestors more relatable to modern listeners.
"It's meant to make people feel like you are recognizing yourself and your ancestors much more than I felt I had before, when they were just sort of these iconic figures on a hill who endured and endured and eventually succeeded." [02:37]
Content of Gossip Columns Nicole describes the diverse range of topics covered in the gossip columns, from love affairs and marital issues to social gatherings and community events. She likens the content to modern-day Instagram posts, highlighting the universal and timeless nature of personal storytelling.
"It's a lot of people... I often compare it to Instagram. It's a lot of what you would post on Instagram is what I find in these pages." [06:16]
Listener Calls: Sharing Family Secrets The episode features several listener calls, where individuals share their own family secrets and scandals. These stories parallel the historical narratives discussed, illustrating that the complexities of family dynamics are not confined to the past.
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Paul from Brooklyn shares the revelation of his mother's long-term, secret marriage, highlighting hidden personal histories.
"He had taken us to his place in Martha's Vineyard... he blurted it out after my mom died, assuming that you knew, he..." [07:02]
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Anna from Brooklyn recounts her grandmother's secret pregnancy and abortion, revealing family truths that surfaced decades later.
"That I was the only one she'd ever told." [08:28]
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Tamara from Seaford, Long Island discusses an undisclosed family member discovered after her grandfather's war injuries led to a secret marriage.
"He asked for one of his nurses to participate, and she said, not without a ring... we get a phone call saying, I'm your uncle, I'm your brother." [16:41]
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Noah from the Bronx uncovers his great-grandfather’s past as an Irish Republican Army member who emigrated to the U.S. under disguise.
"He was actually part of the Irish Republican Army... dressed as a little old lady and boarded a ship to the US." [13:28]
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Marcia from Manhattan reveals a lineage twist involving name changes and hidden Jewish and Sephardic ancestry.
"I never realized that we had this whole lineage of going up into England of, you know, Jewish and Sephardic." [20:27]
Specific Stories from the Podcast Nicole delves into specific narratives featured in her podcast, such as the story of Lulu, the "Belle of Colored DC." Lulu, daughter of a wealthy black elite, defies social norms by falling in love with a man deemed unsuitable by her family's standards, echoing the challenges faced by historical black elites in maintaining social respectability.
"She does fall in love with one of her father's employees... the papers just outright call him poor." [15:46]
She also discusses Lucinda Seaton, a cautionary tale of a black woman who, after her partner's death, struggles to maintain her status without the support of her affluent community.
"She had to take on a couple different jobs to survive... if Lulu had known about that story, I don't imagine that she would have wanted that to happen to her." [19:00]
Podcast Format and Style Alison observes the podcast's unique blend of media, likening it to an old-time radio drama. Nicole confirms this intentional stylistic choice, aiming to immerse listeners in the historical context with a touch of comedy to make black history more accessible and entertaining.
"I wanted to be able to bring that in and to immerse people in the time... a comedy as well. I thought it'd be very interesting to have black history told in a comedic way." [09:12]
Lessons and Insights Nicole emphasizes that Our Ancestors Were Messy seeks to present a multifaceted view of black history, moving beyond narratives of struggle to include stories of love, ambition, and everyday life. She hopes listeners connect with their ancestors on a personal level, recognizing shared humanity and the complexity of their experiences.
"I hope that people feel a little less alienated from themselves because they are able to see that their ancestors were people like them, who made mistakes like them, but who also pursued their dreams and goals." [22:08]
Future Episodes and Conclusion Looking ahead, Nicole teases the next episode set in the Wild West, focusing on Oscar Micheaud—a frontiersman and lover who navigates personal and cultural conflicts leading to the creation of Black Hollywood. The episode wraps up with Alison encouraging listeners to engage with the podcast by sharing their own family stories, fostering a community of shared experiences and diverse perspectives.
Final Thoughts This episode of All Of It masterfully intertwines historical analysis with personal storytelling, offering a rich tapestry of the African American experience through the lens of gossip columns. By highlighting both the public personas and private dramas of black elites, the podcast underscores the universal nature of human complexities and the importance of preserving and understanding diverse histories.