Podcast Summary: All Of It – “Pamela Harriman Moves to New York (Full Bio)”

Date: September 24, 2024
Host: David Fuerst (in for Alison Stewart)
Guest: Sonya Purnell, author of Pamela Harriman’s Astonishing Life of Power, Seduction and Intrigue

Overview

This episode dives into the remarkable and tumultuous post-war chapter of Pamela Harriman’s life, tracing her transformation from British aristocrat and Churchill confidante to American political influencer and socialite. Through conversation with biographer Sonya Purnell, the show explores Harriman's drive, strategies, and romantic pursuits as she migrates through European and American elite circles — always seeking power, companionship, and excitement. The episode reveals both the triumphs and personal costs behind the legend of Pamela Harriman, spotlighting her relationships, resilience, and eventual foray into America’s political scene.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Post-War Crossroads

Timestamps: 03:08 – 04:29

• After WWII, Pamela is newly divorced from Randolph Churchill, left with a young son and little financial security at just 25 years old.
• Reflects on her time in the Churchill home:
  “Having, in a way, if one has to live through a war, to have lived through it at the age from 19 was an enormous advantage because you were young so you were less afraid…[the experience] formed within yourself then that have probably been important in the rest of your life.” – Pamela Harriman (archival, 03:08)
• Driven by a thirst for the thrill and power she experienced during the war, she is unwilling to settle into conventional postwar domesticity.

2. Romance as a Path to Power and Security

Timestamps: 04:29 – 09:34

• Considers, but rules out, traditional careers (e.g., journalism, politics), both due to social constraints and personal doubts.

• Initiates a pivotal romance with Gianni Agnelli (heir to Fiat). Relationship driven by mutual benefit:

  • She helps him rehabilitate his image after the war, thanks to her connections.
  • Converts to Catholicism, annuls her first marriage — but Agnelli's infidelity eventually ends the affair.
    “By the time she converted…that relationship was falling apart. He was a man who was never going to be faithful… But as she put it…they split up, but they never parted.” – Sonya Purnell (07:01)
  • Agnelli continues to call her every day at 7 a.m. for the rest of her life: “A mark of great respect.”

• Next, target is Elie de Rothschild, less out of love, more out of financial need:

  • Relationship is platonic-dominant; their union is unviable due to religious and marital constraints on Elie’s end.
  • “She became incredibly dependent on her too, in other ways…but again, I don’t think that was ever going to work.” – Sonya Purnell (08:39)

3. Public Perception and Ruthlessness

Timestamps: 09:34 – 11:26

• Pamela is labeled “ruthless” for her pursuit of Rothschild, inciting scandal among society due to his likable wife and the affair’s high profile.
  • Purnell underscores double standards:
    "These were always people with extraordinary lives, you know, vineyards, yachts, palaces…she completely versed herself in vintages...she could talk racing. She was a great raconteur and could mimic very well. People so divided: you either loved Pamela or you hated her.” – Sonya Purnell (10:41)

4. Motherhood and Family Tensions

Timestamps: 11:26 – 12:51

• Her son Winston, often emotionally neglected, struggles with bullying and the legacy attached to the Churchill name.
  • Notable: Other boys at Eton disbelieve his glamorous mother is actually his mother.
  • “His father was a terrible father. His mother meant well, but didn’t manage to be the sort of hands-on mother that he really needed.” – Purnell (11:52)

5. Arrival and Life in America

Timestamps: 12:51 – 14:38

• Meets Leland Hayward (Broadway producer, associated with “The Sound of Music”) through social circles in New York.
• Relationship gives her a long-desired entry into American society:
  • “Here was a nice guy, they got on really well, but here also was her ticket to America.” – Purnell (13:37)
• Their glamorous lifestyle is tinged with financial instability and shifting power dynamics.

6. Society, Scandal, and the ‘Swans’

Timestamps: 14:38 – 16:31

• Pamela’s mingling among the “swans” — wealthy socialites immortalized by Truman Capote — is complicated by her ambition and background.
• She is perceived as different, and often colder or more calculating, given her aspirations and history with other women’s husbands.
• Notable quote from Pamela’s hairdresser:
  “The one without an ego, the one actually who bothered to ask about me was Pamela.” (15:47)

7. Family Estrangement and Grief

Timestamps: 16:31 – 18:56

• Leland’s daughter resents Pamela, fueled by feelings of displacement and jealousy, deepened by financial tensions.
• Pamela and Leland’s happiness fades; his death in 1971 leaves her impoverished.
  • She is so destitute that Brooke Astor buys her a dress for the funeral:
    “Brooke Astor bought her a dress for the funeral. She put on a good show, but she was distraught.” – Purnell (19:11)

8. Ambition Rekindled – A New Life in America

Timestamps: 20:11 – 21:21

• Inspired by figures like Katharine Graham, Harriman again seeks “substance” and power.
  • Wants to “do something important, strategic, powerful, geopolitical if possible.”
  • Purnell:
    “She wanted being 25 not to be the most exciting moment in her life anymore… She wanted to be able to do something important.” (20:26)
• Doors gradually open, setting stage for her role as a renowned political hostess and, eventually, ambassador.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Pamela Harriman (on Churchill and post-war resolve):
  “My father-in-law’s will and complete confidence...eventually we would win that war...the sort of basic principles that he imparted to us as a family would have been the basis...a lot of things that since then I have been able to draw on.” (03:08)

• Sonya Purnell (on Gianni Agnelli):
  “She used to wander around on deck wearing absolutely nothing except vast diamonds. It’s not the sort of thing you forget.” (13:16)

• Sonya Purnell (on dual perception):
  “Sure, she could be ruthless, sure she went after what she wanted, but there was a kinder side to her. And I think...very often in Pamela’s life, the public perception was not quite the reality.” (15:47)

• On her lowest point:
  “She really did wake up, you know, once he died, there was nothing, nothing in the bank accounts...Brooke Astor bought her a dress for the funeral. She put on a good show, but she was distraught.” (19:11)

Important Segments (Timestamps)

• [03:08] Pamela Harriman’s reflections on living through WWII
• [04:29] Post-war decisions and failed career attempts
• [06:54] Converting to Catholicism for Agnelli
• [09:34] Handling the “ruthless” reputation
• [11:26] Son Winston’s experience and struggles
• [12:51] Meeting and marrying Leland Hayward in America
• [14:38] Being depicted as a “swan” and social rivalries
• [16:31] Estrangement with Leland’s daughter and marital hardships
• [19:11] Financial collapse after Hayward’s death
• [20:26] Pamela’s ambition for significance in America

Tone and Language

The conversation blends vivid storytelling with reflective analysis, preserving Purnell's incisive yet empathetic tone when describing Harriman’s strategic maneuvers and complex personality. Purnell openly acknowledges both the admiration and criticism Harriman attracted, presenting a nuanced portrait of ambition, charm, flaws, and resilience.

Next Episode Teaser

The next installment promises to examine Pamela Harriman’s detractors and her rise to become the American Ambassador to France.