Podcast Summary: "Pete Wells on His 12 Years as a Restaurant Critic"
Podcast: All Of It (WNYC)
Host: Alison Stewart
Date: July 17, 2024
Guest: Pete Wells, outgoing New York Times restaurant critic
Overview
In this episode, Alison Stewart conducts an "exit interview" with Pete Wells as he steps down after 12 years as the New York Times' influential restaurant critic. They discuss the evolution of New York’s food scene, the challenges and responsibilities of the job, Wells’ process, the impact of health concerns, how food criticism is changing in the era of TikTok, and notable moments from his career. The episode mixes listener engagement with introspective, revealing, and often humorous insights from Wells himself.
Main Discussion Points and Insights
How Pete Wells Became a Restaurant Critic
- (03:06) Wells recounts his somewhat accidental path to food writing, stating that while he wrote about various topics, food was always the most enjoyable and the area where he kept getting assignments.
“Food was really always the most fun, and it was the one that I kept getting asked to do again and again. So it just sort of became my career.” (03:13, Pete Wells)
- Becoming a dedicated restaurant critic only became a real consideration upon joining the New York Times.
Responsibilities as NYT Restaurant Critic
- (03:55) Wells discusses the expectation of a weekly review and supplementary writing—shifting to biweekly only a year ago.
- He reflects on the critic’s role: not to advocate for or against the industry but to serve the readers—regardless of their backgrounds and preferences.
“The job’s not to help the industry or to hurt the industry. The job is to help readers.” (04:33, Pete Wells)
Reviewing Process: How the Sausage Gets Made
- (05:24) Wells attempts to try everything on the menu (when feasible), often sampling dozens of dishes to fairly represent a restaurant. With huge menus, he sets a reasonable limit.
- Beyond food, he observes the environment, service, and the overall experience to vividly “bring the whole scene to life” in his reviews.
“You’re trying to take in all this other stuff...how’s the room? How are the people? Is the service hesitant, or a well-oiled machine?...All this stuff, you try to absorb it while you’re paying attention to the food.” (05:37, Pete Wells)
The Physical Toll & “Taboo” Health Issues
- (07:38) Stewart highlights Wells’ candor about health being a reason for leaving—a topic that, according to Wells, food critics rarely discuss openly.
- Wells acknowledges the pressure of the job, the expectation to “put away all these meals and all the wine and the cocktails...when you’re younger, you kind of can do that. It just gets harder.”
“It’s depressing to admit that you’re frail and mortal...but it just gets harder.” (08:05, Pete Wells)
For Whom Does the Critic Eat?
- Wells refers to his farewell essay, in which he asks whether he’s eating for the audience or himself. The answer, he says, is always “both,” as reporting and consumption become intertwined:
“You’re filling your notebook as you’re filling your stomach. And the two things are hard to separate.” (09:13, Pete Wells)
Listener Contributions & Iconic Reviews
On Bringing Backup – Dining Companions
- (10:10) Responding to a listener question, Wells explains he brings others to sample more dishes (and to avoid looking “like you’ve lost your mind” by ordering dozens of items alone):
“I do bring backup…They notice stuff. They point things out. They often, you know, draw my attention to things that I might have missed.” (10:34, Pete Wells)
The Guy Fieri Review
- (11:03) A listener describes the infamous scathing Guy Fieri review as a “masterpiece,” noting it inspired them to visit for themselves. Wells remarks:
“What’s wild to me about that story… is that the restaurant had time to repair all of those things before you went in there. And somehow that didn’t happen. Which…is one of the many mysteries of that restaurant.” (11:40, Pete Wells)
- Stewart reads a memorable passage from the review:
“Is the shapeless structure, Baked Alaska, that droops and slumps and collapses…supposed to be a representation in sugar and eggs of the experience of going insane? Why did the toasted marshmallows taste like fish?” (12:14, Alison Stewart quoting Pete Wells)
Honesty and Restraint in Reviewing
- Wells says an older critic advised him to be “completely honest and then pull back…a half step,” to maintain credibility.
“If you say how bad it is, people don’t believe you…That’s the case with some of probably all of my really well-known negative reviews. I held back a little bit.” (12:27, Pete Wells)
Exploring NYC Through Food
- (13:19) A listener credits Wells with encouraging exploration of new neighborhoods and cuisines, solidifying his role in expanding readers’ culinary horizons.
“That’s probably the best thing I could hear.” (13:47, Pete Wells)
Changing Food Criticism in the Internet Age
Crowdsourcing and the Decline of Traditional Criticism
- (14:29) Responding to a listener, Wells notes that while crowdsourcing (Yelp, Google, social media) is now many people’s source for food opinions, traditional reviews are more deeply reported and edited, though perhaps becoming “a bit of a dinosaur.”
“The old traditional restaurant review is a different model. It’s extensively reported…It may be a bit of a dinosaur at this point, but… I’ve enjoyed doing it.” (14:39, Pete Wells)
Influence of TikTok and Viral Food
- (15:37) Wells observes that social media hasn’t necessarily changed criticism, but has changed which dishes are created—a focus on visual, “extreme” cuisine designed to “cut through all the noise.”
“If you make something that’s very extreme looking…All of that stuff is great for TikTok…Now I think it kind of is [good] because it’ll cut through all the noise." (15:53, Pete Wells)
Fascination with Fine Dining in Pop Culture
- (17:03) Addressing why high-end restaurants fascinate us (in shows like The Bear, The Menu):
“It encapsulates so many things going on in our culture…the pursuit of pleasure…class stratification that everyone feels and…a lot of people have this growing resentment about…Restaurants are a place where that all plays out.” (17:03, Pete Wells)
Looking Forward: Life After The Times
What’s Next for Pete Wells?
- (18:04) Wells hopes to write more broad cultural criticism (“still with a food focus”) but without the heavy physical toll.
“My hope is to kind of write more cultural criticism, but still with a food focus and without the need to go out every single night.” (18:09, Pete Wells)
The Ever-Louder Restaurant
- (18:29) Responding to a quick-fire listener question, Wells has “conflicting feelings about noise” in dining rooms, but the discussion is cut short by technical issues.
Closing Advice and Parting Words
Advice for the Next NYT Restaurant Critic
- (18:58) Wells cautions his successor:
“Try to make the job bite size. You know, don’t feel like you have to eat every single thing in New York because there is so much, and it just gets bigger every day, and you don’t want to get bigger every day. So just be careful.” (19:04, Pete Wells)
Final Thoughts
- Stewart expresses collective gratitude as the show wraps, and Wells responds warmly:
“Thank you. It’s been nice to be back and I hope I’m still interesting in the future and we can talk again.” (19:30, Pete Wells)
Notable Quotes
- “You’re filling your notebook as you’re filling your stomach. And the two things are hard to separate.” (09:13, Pete Wells)
- “If you say how bad it is, people don’t believe you…That’s the case with some of probably all of my really well-known negative reviews. I held back a little bit.” (12:27, Pete Wells)
- “Try to make the job bite size…don’t feel like you have to eat every single thing in New York because there is so much, and it just gets bigger every day, and you don’t want to get bigger every day.” (19:04, Pete Wells)
Episode Timestamps for Key Moments
- 03:06 – Wells on becoming a food writer
- 03:55 – On the primary responsibility of serving readers
- 05:24 – Review process: sampling the menu and the dining scene
- 07:38 – Physical/health challenges of the job
- 10:10 – Use of dining companions in research
- 11:03 – Listener feedback on Guy Fieri review; critique and its effects
- 14:29 – On crowdsourced vs. traditional criticism
- 15:37 – How TikTok and influencers have changed food culture
- 17:03 – Why fine dining fascinates popular culture
- 18:04 – Wells’ post-NYT plans
- 18:58 – Advice for the next critic
Summary
This episode reflects on how a single critic can influence, reflect, and be changed by a city’s vibrant food culture. Wells’ insights touch on the lived experience behind the bylines, the power and responsibility of criticism, and the ongoing evolution of media and culinary trends. For longtime readers, New Yorkers, and lovers of food criticism, the conversation serves both as a sendoff and a meditation on taste, work, and changing times.