A (3:17)

Wow, you write a lot about being from. Pronounce it for me. How do you say it?

B (3:22)

Oshawa.

A (3:22)

Oshawa, Ontario. You say Oshawa is like the. Is like Detroit minus the European flair.

B (3:27)

Yes.

A (3:28)

Made me crap me up. What was something about Oshawa on Canada that lets us know that you're from there?

B (3:38)

Something that's like Oshawa is. It's a tough town. It's a hockey town. It's. I mean, with saying that it like my favorite people still my best friends and stuff like that were from there. And comedy, there wasn't a lot going down there. And being funny was really important.

A (4:02)

Yeah. When did you first realize, in terms of the way you learn, that it.

C (4:06)

Was different for you?

B (4:09)

It's when I think back to. So Kindergarten was great. Kindergarten went very well. And then like the second I walked into the first grade, when I think back, it almost seems like, like a scene from like Oliver Twist. It was just like got real dark real quick because I was just so perplexed how these kids, they were just reading is such a. It looks so passive. You point your face at something and you get the information. And I would do that and nothing would occur.

A (4:39)

Oh, wow. But teachers kept passing you along through.

C (4:42)

School a little bit.

B (4:43)

Yeah. They didn't want to. That was the last thing they wanted to do. My mom would go in just. And fight for me.

D (4:53)

How?

B (4:54)

Just. Sorry. I get so emotional talking about it.

C (4:57)

Of course.

B (4:58)

Yes. My mom would just go in and really advocate. Yeah.

C (5:03)

You write the nicest things about her in this book you write. My mom showed mercy while she was pregnant with me. She had worked with teaching children with disabilities. Then I came along and she had to do it at home. When it was time to do homework, she came to the kitchen table armed with enough positivity for the two of us. And later on she put her arm around you and said, you're not dumb. Don't let anyone tell you that.

B (5:26)

Yeah. Yeah.

C (5:28)

So as you had to deal with these teachers, some of whom were not kind at all.

B (5:33)

No, I would go so far as to say they were all not kind. Yeah.

C (5:37)

How did you deal with them?

B (5:40)

I like it was a perfect combination of my mom was patient and my dad was really like, you know, you're smarter than them. That was his. Which I don't know if that's the best thing to tell a little kid. But yeah, my parents really built me up at home and that's what I say. Like I meet a lot of, you know, I'm performing every single weekend all over, you know, the, all over the states and now kind of all over the, starting all over the world. And I tell parents will meet me and after a show and they'll be like, you know, my, my child is diagnosed with dyslexia. And to me, now that I've been through it, that's not a negative thing. But what I say to them is like, it's so important to maintain their self esteem and because you can't help but feel stupid in school.

C (6:29)

Did you feel that way?

B (6:30)

Oh my God, yes, of course. But if you like, if you're a dyslexic kid, if you have a dyslexic kid, you're nine and you have the grit of someone that's been through three marriages, like you've been through something, you have character. So if you can maintain their self esteem, they're going to finish school, they're like a coiled spring and they're going to apply that tenacity to whatever they get into. And that's what I, I mean, I finished school with some self esteem intact thanks to my parents. And then, I mean, there's no way I've been doing standup so, so long. And I just continued and continued and continued and continued. And now I'm starting to sell tickets and I have, I get to talk to you and I have all these opportunities and I was able to write a book and all that stuff. But that's just because I had the built. I had a lot of, a lot of people had stopped doing standup. The people that I'd started with, yeah, but those are people that were good at everything. I'd never had any ability until I started standup. Anything that was measurable on a scoreboard or a report card.

A (7:30)

What did you do during those years as strategies for you while you're a kid in school to take care of yourself?

B (7:40)

I personally didn't have strategies. My mom worked with me every night. And yeah, I mean the bright spot in my life was socializing. I was always social. And I find that's the case with, like Helen was saying, it's often when you're it there, it's. People are shocked when the per. The. When the kid can't read because they're, you know, precocious and smart and engaging with adults in conversational stuff. That's part of being dyslexic is you. You. You know, they. You have to be, like, above average intelligence, and you have all these different interests. It's just you can't get that information from the page. Like, I remember when I was a kid, they couldn't figure out what's wrong with me. And I remember getting a test. My parents paid for this person to test me, and they would. I would read a story and then try to answer the questions, get zero. And then they would read to me, and I'd get the questions perfectly, and they would be like, we're so perplexed. And I'm like, it's so clear. It's so clear, you know?

A (8:45)

What did it feel like when you were diagnosed with dyslexia?

B (8:49)

Well, I mean, it's. It's a relief. I also. I have. I also have ocd. And I remember being diagnosed with ocd. And you're like, oh, thank goodness there's a name for what's going on in my brain. So I felt. When I was a kid, I was so frustrated that I, like, you know, my mom became an expert on dyslexia. I didn't want to talk about it and stuff, ironically, as a kid, because now as an adult, it's like, my favorite topic. So. But I felt relief that there was. It was a sign that you're okay. So I'm not dumb. There is a name for what's going on that I have, you know.

C (9:25)

My guest is comedian Phil Hanley. We're discussing his new book, My Life as a Dyslexic Wordsmith. Let's talk to Meg in Patterson, New Jersey. Hey, Meg, thank you so much for calling all of it. You're on the air.

D (9:37)

Thank you. I just wanted to say, my mom, she had dyslexia, and she told us stories about when she was growing up in the 30s. There was no diagnosis for it, so they just thought she was stupid and couldn't read. And they actually put her in, like, a. Like an insane asylum is the way she described it. And she was there until her family came to visit. And then when they saw where she was, they pulled her out of there, but she Got diagnosed with my older sister when my. When we were probably 13, 12 to 13 years old. And that was when she learned she had. She was dyslexic. And the doctor told her that if all of her children had the same kind of learning disabilities, don't worry about it. We all probably are dyslexic. But I. My experience with dyslexia is in the form of numbers. Like, I can't. Like, I have difficulty with time. I have difficulty just keeping a sequence of numbers. And we were just all told growing up that we were lazy, that, you know, if we only tried harder, we could do better.

C (10:43)

Did you get the try harder?

B (10:44)

Oh, I got the lazy try. Try harder. Yeah, constantly. But it's. It's like just. Just me getting here on time. I put in more effort. There's no lazy dyslexics. Yeah, they wouldn't leave the house. So. Yeah, I got that a lot. And I talk to kids. I work with Eye to Eye, which advocates for people, neurodiversity, and I'll talk to kids. And it's what a dyslexic goes through to hand in their homework is. It's just so much more than just being able to sit down and answer the questions.

A (11:22)

I want to ask you about the conversation you had with your folks, Phil. They help you get through high school, but they sit down and they ask you, like, college probably not in it for you.

B (11:31)

Yeah.

A (11:31)

What was that moment like?

B (11:35)

It was like a little bit disheartening because all my friends were going to college, and I had friends that were like a year or two older than me, so I would go and, you know, hang out with them on the weekends and stuff. And it was certainly, you know, it was like, really fun, but I was also relieved, and it also kind of made sense to me because you learn as a dyslexic, you learn really early on, like your life is going to be different. It's not just going to be a standard one.

A (12:03)

Yeah.

B (12:04)

And, you know, in. In my book, like, it starts dark, but it becomes very light by the end because, I mean, the. I'm so grateful that I'm dyslexic. I wouldn't be speaking to you if I wasn't dyslexic. I wouldn't be living in New York City or, you know, performing or meeting all the people that. That I've met. So dyslexia is such a blessing, but it's just getting through school and it's maintaining the self esteem. I keep saying that because it's so, so important and it's hard to do because you're felt you called lazy. You're. It's if you're not called dumb. I was. But if you're not, if you're. If. It's certainly implied always. And in the statistics of kids with learning disabilities that are like incarcerated and stuff like that, it's horrific the percentage. And of course you're frustrated all day. You're going to steal something, you're going to get in a fight, you're going to get in trouble because it feels very unfair. The world feels very unfair to you.

A (13:04)

So after college, your friend calls up and is like, are you still tall? Are you still skinny? Do you want to go out for modeling a job?

C (13:12)

What did you think when you got that call?

B (13:14)

I was shocked. So all my friends went to college. I'm in Oshawa, I'm in my hometown really with a lot of ambition to do something, but I didn't exactly know what as a non reader writer and yes. Shalom Harlow, someone from my hometown who was a hugely successful model.

A (13:34)

Huge model.

B (13:35)

Yeah. And is just a great friend and someone who's, you know, thinks of other people was. Didn't like the idea that I was stuck at home and yeah, I wish I had never thought of myself as a model or whatever. And it was just a great time. I was skinny with long hair and it was when the heroin cheek thing was, you know, booming. And yeah, it got me out of Oshawa and it got me. I lived in Europe for four years.

A (14:05)

You're fairly successful for a male model.

B (14:08)

Yeah, I did some big jobs for. I did fashion shows for Armani and Dolce Gabbana and I did some campaigns for like Levi's and stuff like that. But the big thing that it did was it introduced me to people that loved what they did. These photographers that were like, I got a camera when I was six and that's all I ever wanted to do. And stylists and, and designers and stuff like that. And it made me think like, oh, I want to do that. Because growing up I didn't. No adult had a job they liked. You know, my dad loathed his job. My friend's parents didn't love their jobs. So I, after the misery of being in school, I was really wanted to do something that I look forward to doing every day. So yeah, so that I knew modeling wasn't that. You know, it was a great experience. And then I slowly found my way into comedy.

A (15:00)

There's this funny this funny point when Giorgio Armani says, you look like a sick chicken.

B (15:05)

Yes.

A (15:05)

Because your legs are so skinny.

B (15:06)

Yeah. Yeah.

A (15:08)

I wondered what that taught you about the world. The way that people. The way that modeling. And they judge you on your looks. What did it teach you about the way that people look at one another?

B (15:21)

It's funny, my mom would always say to me, I would say that she's so happy that I didn't take it personal, like modeling you, especially for the shows. You go to Milan and you go to these castings every day. Like, I mean, you're walking around Milan for eight, nine hours a day, and they look at your book and they open a page, and if they're interested in you being in the fashion show, you might try on a sport coat or a shirt or whatever, but often they would open, they'd look at your book, and they'd just be, like, grassy, and they'd push your book back and you'd be on your way. But if you've been judged for your intellectual, your whole life, if some Italian fashion designer doesn't think that you're perfect for his pants, you don't. I didn't bat an eye with the being judged for my appearance because I'd been judged for, you know, my intellect negatively, you know, since I'm from 5 to 18. So I really didn't take it. I really was never insulted by that, you know?

A (16:20)

Yeah.

C (16:21)

You also got really into meditation.

B (16:23)

Yes, I still am. Yeah.

C (16:24)

So you still do it?

B (16:25)

Yes, I do. Yeah.

C (16:27)

What was it about meditation that was helpful for you?

B (16:30)

I was so. Again, growing up in Oshawa, I didn't know anyone that had ever meditated or, you know, even, like, I don't think you could. There was nowhere you could do yoga or anything when. When I was a kid growing up. But I was drawn to meditation, I think, because I wanted to. I knew it would involve the brain, and I knew that my brain, at the time, when I got into it, I really thought that my brain needed to be changed in some way. Also, if you are dyslexic or neurodiverse, you experience anxiety because you are, you know, for a plethora of reasons. And I. And I really wanted to reduce that.

C (17:13)

You're really into the dead, right?

B (17:15)

Yeah. The Grateful Dead. Yeah, in my life.

C (17:16)

Bob Weir's really into meditation.

B (17:18)

Yeah, Bob Weir's really into meditation, and Bob Weir's very dyslexic.

C (17:23)

What is the connection between the three things, Weir, meditation and dyslexia?

B (17:29)

I mean, they're all see another aspect of the Grateful Dead. Their lyricist, Robert Hunter, who, he's passed away, tells these amazing stories. And for a kid that couldn't read but love storytelling, it was. It was great for me to listen to these songs and be able to hear these stories and feel really inspired by them.

C (17:52)

This text says, I have dyslexia and am an artist. I struggled through school and was embarrassed by my learning disability. I worked very hard and was able to attend Dartmouth College. After learning more about how many artists who are dyslexic, my attitude changed, and I now see it as my superpower. I'm so thankful for my dyslexia now. This one says I have dyslexia. People have always told me I wasn't dumb. I was just a little slow. I wrote a song about my struggles in school. One of my lyrics, I may be stupid, but I'm smart enough to know being dumb is the same thing as being slow. Listening to Henry Winkler talk about his experiences growing up with dyslexia was a huge eye opener for me. This says, for dyslexic seniors, ask to get into your school records. Before the Freedom of Information act, teachers wrote unbelievable things. It's a real eye opener.

B (18:39)

Yeah, it's funny. I was in Vancouver. I played Vancouver, where my parents live, last week. And I par at my. I wanted to get some of the old report cards, and I wanted to get report cards when I was researching the book. And my mom had thrown out the report cards from when I was a kid because she said they were just so mean that she couldn't have them in the house. One of the things that inspired me to write the book was I read a small book about someone that was dyslexic. And. And I couldn't. I was like, I couldn't believe. When you struggle as a dyslexic, you feel like you're the only person in the world because your. Your world is your classroom. And likely you're the only kid that is dyslexic in the classroom and you think it's only you. So I'd gone through my whole life, my adult life, everything, thinking that these experiences were just me. And then, yeah, like nine years ago, eight years ago, I read a book about someone else that was disliked. And you're just like, oh, my goodness. Other people experience thing that I experience, and it feels so individual, and you kind of bury it. I mean, that's why if I talk about my mom or I talk about my experiences as a kid, I can't help but feel instantly emotional. Also, when I talk about the Grateful Dead, they really bring up emotion in me too. But.

A (20:04)

When did you decide to make comedy out of it? Once you got into comedy?

B (20:11)

Once I started stand up, you really start evaluating, you know, what makes you different. You want original material. And I immediately went to dyslexia. And it's so crazy that I can go on stage for an audience that is intoxicated at 11 o' clock at night on a Friday. And it's my dyslexic material that connects to people because either they are dyslexic or they know someone that is. Or I mean, it's. Everyone has a challenge of some sort. And that's the beauty of comedy is you can have the bad experience and then you. When you get a laugh from it, all of a sudden it feels worthwhile.

A (20:53)

Let's take a listen to another bit of your standup act. This is from the third grade.

C (20:58)

Let's listen.

B (21:00)

Third grade. The teacher was old and she learned to teach before dyslexia was invented. So she didn't think it was a thing. She thought it was something that people made up to get attention, like a gluten allergy. She'd make the whole class read and then it would be my turn and I'd be like, I can't read. It's the same situation as yesterday. And she would say, sound it out. Even as a kid, I'm like, yeah, that's just reading. You know, it is so insensitive to tell a dyslexic child to sound it out. It'd be like if someone pulled you aside and was like, hey, I can't eat this. I'm death allergic to peanuts. And you're like, chew slowly. How does it feel?

A (21:56)

We're all laughing like, we're all good throughout this.

B (21:58)

That means a lot to me. I'm looking into the control room and people laughing. Thank you.

A (22:02)

Everybody's laughing about it. But you're really talking about something really painful.

B (22:05)

Oh, so painful. So very, very painful. Yeah.

A (22:10)

What is that like?

B (22:11)

I mean, now it's. And to me, I almost feel like insensitive telling like I'm almost. When someone tells me that their child is dyslexic or something like that, like, I know because I can see into the future. I'm like, that's. I'm almost happy for them because I know you're going to excel in a different area again if the parent can maintain their self esteem. And I don't mean maintain their self esteem by like forcing them to play piano for eight hours a day. I mean, just whatever they're good at and whatever their child is naturally drawn to, to kind of celebrate that if it's Lego or storytelling or stuff. But that's the best part about comedy again, is to something bad. And if you can make people laugh about it or make light of it, in a lot of ways, it feels worthwhile.

A (23:03)

Let's talk to John. Hi John, thank you so much for taking the time to call in. I believe you're calling from Brooklyn.

E (23:11)

I am, and thank you so much. It's so great to hear this. I'm a proud owner of dyslexia and adhd. My friend has ocd. I have no CD because I'm a mess. But it's great to hear this. And third grade was huge for me. I was going to be held back and we had the conference with my third grade teacher and we kind of with my mother agreed, okay, I would be. And we got into the car and I burst into tears and I said please, please, please don't make me stay back. And she got a hold of my teacher and my mother was very. A great advocate for me. Like, like we've heard several times, thank God for parents that really care and really, really give us some self esteem. I was never called dumb or stupid, but when you're put in the Bluebird reading class, you look around and you figure out that oh, oh, I am at a dumb class.

A (24:21)

John, we really appreciate you calling in. We have to wrap up this segment and before I go, I do want to ask you, Phil, is there anything you'd want to say to someone listening right now who is struggling with dyslexia, who hasn't figured out what they should do, how they should think about it?

B (24:41)

Yeah, I mean I could talk to, you know, for days to the two minutes. Okay. All right. Well, yeah, like I really one I hope I would recommend. I just recorded my audiobook and I think that anyone who's dyslexic or anyone who's struggling with neurodiversity or struggling would get inspiration from that. And it dyslexia, it really is. I truly believe that it's a gift. I wouldn't, I'm so grateful that I have it now. And we dyslexics, we're the most creative people and we figure it out. Cheryl said that she was asked to spell stop and she drew a stop sign. That's a little kid who's so creative and just problem solving and that's what we do. And when we read there's a different part of our brain is working than a non dyslexic and it's not, I mean, wouldn't you want to be different in this world right now than just like a, you know, standard functioning brain? I really think dyslexia is a gift. And I, and I have complete faith that with the support you really need someone to advocate for you and you need support. I need support. I'm gonna book a hotel in San Francisco. My manager is gonna do that for me. You know, I have, I am asked for support and help when I mail a letter, when I just. There's nothing to be ashamed about being dyslexic. And it really is a gift if you, if you just kind of. Again, I keep saying it, but it's so important for people to maintain kids self esteem and, and given a world that's not basically the only area we can excel is the way that school is structured. That's the only place. And in my book I, as soon as I got someone who read the test answers to me and let me dictate my answers, I won all these awards as the most improved student and finished at the top of my class. But it was the final year of high school where I was like, they're like, let's give him what he needs. You know, it's a disability, like another disability. You need help to do certain things.

A (27:06)

That was comedian Phil Hanley. His memoir is titled My Life as a Dyslexic Wordsmith. He'll be talking about the book and performing some stand up this Friday night at the Paramount in Huntington.

C (27:19)

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